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Canadians - 7/9/2010 10:31:38 PM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		What do you do with 'em? I have a bunch of yellow link (R) squadrons that I am thinking of sending to the front. Maybe Alaska, they should be used to the cold.

Post #: 1
RE: Canadians - 7/9/2010 10:43:55 PM   
vinnie71

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		There are about 2 fighter and one bomber squadrons that can be redeployed. These I normally send to India (don't ask me why but I do it for no particular reason) but I'm thinking of taking a different approach and send them to the Solomons. Hurricane XII's could be excellent in point defence role.

Incidentally the Canadians get a lot of restricted Squadrons which I normally split in two. Some are dedicated to training while the rest are dedicated to maritime patrol. When they start getting Cansos and Venturas they would make life miserable for any Japanese sub operating in the area...

(in reply to The Gnome)
Post #: 2
RE: Canadians - 7/10/2010 4:43:11 AM   
Sredni

 

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		There's also two Canadian fighter squadrons that are on early war british carriers that withdraw. I pulled em off before I sent the carriers home. Take that Admiralty!

Unfortunately just like all the other Canadian air groups the airframes they have access to have limited production with large gaps between production runs. The Canadian airgroups don't seem suitable for any sustained operations for that reason alone.

There are two 16 plane groups in eastern Canada that can be unlocked. They withdraw in late 1943 though. They can use Hurricane XIIB and Kittyhawk I, III, and IV. The Hurricane's were produced from 6/42-8/42 and I have a total of 49 in my pools. The Kittyhawk I was produced from 12/41-8/42 and I have a whopping 35 in my pools. Kittyhawk III from 9/42-10/42, I have 27 so far in mid october 42. And the kittyhawk IV is produced from 9/43-11/43 at 15 a month, so a whopping 45 planes.

I guess for the rest of the war the Canadians are expecting to arm their pilots with sharp sticks and to flap their arms to take off.

The two carrier groups stolen off withdrawn carriers have a bit better production for their pools. But they're still nothing like what I would require for heavy combat.

< Message edited by Sredni -- 7/10/2010 5:03:12 AM >

(in reply to The Gnome)
Post #: 3
RE: Canadians - 7/10/2010 5:18:30 AM   
afspret


Posts: 851
Joined: 2/19/2004
From: Hanahan, SC
Status: offline 		I use my Bolingbrook, Shark & Stranraer squadrons for ASW patrols along the Canadian West Coast ('cause I've got some I-Boats plodding around there) and my Kittyhawks are split 50/50 on CAP & training.  One thing I've done in my mod to the Ironman scenario is to tweak the w/d dates of some of the units, just in case those intrepid Sons of Nippon make a visit to the great northwest.

Speaking of Ironman and its wildly unpredictable moves, has anybody playing as the allies had the AI invade Alaska?  Just wondering 'cause in my current game against the AI, I'm in the middle of Feb '42 & I've already lost Port Moresby, Baker & Funafuti Islands and on the last turn my PBY squadron at Palmyra spotted an enemy TF, of unknown make up, about 12 hexes out heading east. 

(in reply to Sredni)
Post #: 4
RE: Canadians - 7/10/2010 2:56:24 PM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni

There's also two Canadian fighter squadrons that are on early war british carriers that withdraw. I pulled em off before I sent the carriers home. Take that Admiralty!

Unfortunately just like all the other Canadian air groups the airframes they have access to have limited production with large gaps between production runs. The Canadian airgroups don't seem suitable for any sustained operations for that reason alone.

There are two 16 plane groups in eastern Canada that can be unlocked. They withdraw in late 1943 though. They can use Hurricane XIIB and Kittyhawk I, III, and IV. The Hurricane's were produced from 6/42-8/42 and I have a total of 49 in my pools. The Kittyhawk I was produced from 12/41-8/42 and I have a whopping 35 in my pools. Kittyhawk III from 9/42-10/42, I have 27 so far in mid october 42. And the kittyhawk IV is produced from 9/43-11/43 at 15 a month, so a whopping 45 planes.

I guess for the rest of the war the Canadians are expecting to arm their pilots with sharp sticks and to flap their arms to take off.

The two carrier groups stolen off withdrawn carriers have a bit better production for their pools. But they're still nothing like what I would require for heavy combat.


Hm, I would say the Canadians fought in Europe

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(in reply to Sredni)
Post #: 5
RE: Canadians - 7/10/2010 5:25:25 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni

There's also two Canadian fighter squadrons that are on early war british carriers that withdraw. I pulled em off before I sent the carriers home. Take that Admiralty!

Unfortunately just like all the other Canadian air groups the airframes they have access to have limited production with large gaps between production runs. The Canadian airgroups don't seem suitable for any sustained operations for that reason alone.

There are two 16 plane groups in eastern Canada that can be unlocked. They withdraw in late 1943 though. They can use Hurricane XIIB and Kittyhawk I, III, and IV. The Hurricane's were produced from 6/42-8/42 and I have a total of 49 in my pools. The Kittyhawk I was produced from 12/41-8/42 and I have a whopping 35 in my pools. Kittyhawk III from 9/42-10/42, I have 27 so far in mid october 42. And the kittyhawk IV is produced from 9/43-11/43 at 15 a month, so a whopping 45 planes.

I guess for the rest of the war the Canadians are expecting to arm their pilots with sharp sticks and to flap their arms to take off.

The two carrier groups stolen off withdrawn carriers have a bit better production for their pools. But they're still nothing like what I would require for heavy combat.


Hm, I would say the Canadians fought in Europe


Well, so did the Americans, Brits, Indians, Australians and New Zealanders...That being said, Canada had a very small population, but then so did New Zealand and Australia. Its overall mobilization was smaller (as a percent) of the total poplution than Oz of NZ.

My understanding is that most of its air force personnel never left the country. Wiki, for what it is worth, says 3/4s of its air force personnel stayed in Canada.

(in reply to frank1970)
Post #: 6
RE: Canadians - 7/10/2010 5:32:23 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni

There's also two Canadian fighter squadrons that are on early war british carriers that withdraw. I pulled em off before I sent the carriers home. Take that Admiralty!

Unfortunately just like all the other Canadian air groups the airframes they have access to have limited production with large gaps between production runs. The Canadian airgroups don't seem suitable for any sustained operations for that reason alone.

There are two 16 plane groups in eastern Canada that can be unlocked. They withdraw in late 1943 though. They can use Hurricane XIIB and Kittyhawk I, III, and IV. The Hurricane's were produced from 6/42-8/42 and I have a total of 49 in my pools. The Kittyhawk I was produced from 12/41-8/42 and I have a whopping 35 in my pools. Kittyhawk III from 9/42-10/42, I have 27 so far in mid october 42. And the kittyhawk IV is produced from 9/43-11/43 at 15 a month, so a whopping 45 planes.

I guess for the rest of the war the Canadians are expecting to arm their pilots with sharp sticks and to flap their arms to take off.

The two carrier groups stolen off withdrawn carriers have a bit better production for their pools. But they're still nothing like what I would require for heavy combat.

Thanks Sredni.

I use the Canadian patrol and bomber squadrons for ASW duty along the entire West Coast (US and Canada). I use their KVs in ASW TFs as part of air-naval hunter-killer groups to release US ships and aircraft for offensive operations. Additionally, until the 4/42 upgrades for US DDs (and DE conversions), the KVs are the only moderately competent ASW ships available in the Pacific.

I have used the Canadian fighter squadrons to fly CAP over bases in India under medium threat.

I often buy out a Canadian Bde or two to help in NORPAC.

< Message edited by Wirraway_Ace -- 7/10/2010 5:34:11 PM >

(in reply to Sredni)
Post #: 7
RE: Canadians - 7/10/2010 8:08:07 PM   
RUDOLF


Posts: 261
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		I like the Canadien KV's

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 8
RE: Canadians - 7/10/2010 8:27:43 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		In one of my games vs. IJ AI I sent couple of Canadian brigades to Java.  I as testing if I could hold the island vs. AI in Scen 1. Even when committing all I had it was still close-run thing.

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Post #: 9
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 1:44:35 AM   
aspqrz02

 

Posts: 1024
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

My understanding is that most of its air force personnel never left the country. Wiki, for what it is worth, says 3/4s of its air force personnel stayed in Canada.



Empire Air Training Scheme?

Aka "The aerodrome of democracy" (Roosevelt)?

100,000 Canadians involved, 10,000 aircraft in Canada involved. 130,000 pilots, navigators, gunners and other aircrew from all over the Commonwealth and allied countries trained?

That would probably explain it

There's more ways of winning than fighting directly

Phil

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(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 10
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 5:32:29 AM   
Sredni

 

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank

Hm, I would say the Canadians fought in Europe


Yes heh. From all the history I've read and learned in school I get the impression we never fought in the pacific at all. I know we were very heavily involved in europe from day one, dragged into the war by default with britain. But I never hear much about a Canadian airforce either. Though that I also know instead of joining a canadian airforce a lot of Canadians joined the British airforce. Though I don't know how true that was in WWII compared to WWI (I'm not sure if we even had an airforce in wwi lol).

One of the quotes I hear a lot is that Canada had the 3rd largest navy in the world at the end of the war. How large that could be I dunno (or weather it's in regard to # of hulls, or tonnage or what). Especially considering that the Japanese, German, Italian, and French navies had been decimated by that point it seems kinda like a self congratulatory claim. I bet 99% of the Canadian navy was involved in convoy duty to britain though.

I honestly know more about how other peoples countries participated in the war then my own. Canadian schools arn't really big on our own history.

Just for comparisons sake, right now Canada has a population of 34 million. The United States has a population of 309 million. Around 1/10th the population. Not sure how similar that ratio was during wwII, but it was probably pretty close. You guys have states with more population then our entire country lol.


TBH the lack of airframe production for Canada kinda disappoints me :/. It'd be great to put some Canadian airgroups to work. I wish I could spend political points to increase production, or to transfer some of the 100's of p40E's I have laying around gathering dust to other commands.

(in reply to frank1970)
Post #: 11
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 5:44:03 AM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aspqrz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

My understanding is that most of its air force personnel never left the country. Wiki, for what it is worth, says 3/4s of its air force personnel stayed in Canada.



Empire Air Training Scheme?

Aka "The aerodrome of democracy" (Roosevelt)?

100,000 Canadians involved, 10,000 aircraft in Canada involved. 130,000 pilots, navigators, gunners and other aircrew from all over the Commonwealth and allied countries trained?

That would probably explain it

There's more ways of winning than fighting directly

Phil


Thanks for the clarification Phil. I remembered part of the history. My response was originally for Frank who seemed to be suggesting more Canadian Air Force units were not available in the Pacific because they were fighting in Europe...

(in reply to aspqrz02)
Post #: 12
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 7:02:49 AM   
aspqrz02

 

Posts: 1024
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

Thanks for the clarification Phil. I remembered part of the history. My response was originally for Frank who seemed to be suggesting more Canadian Air Force units were not available in the Pacific because they were fighting in Europe...



I actually corresponded with a nice old gent when I was helping moderate soc.history.war.world-war-ii (when it was still human moderated) who was a graduate of EATS/Canada and fought in Burma, India and the ETO during various stages of the war ... interesting career, and he came from Cessnock where my Dad grew up, at about the same time!

And, IIRC, its mentioned in at least one of the more obscure Neville Shute books, in passing ... it certainly doesn't seem to get the prominent mention it deserves these days, which is sad, as the Roosevelt quote shows how important it actually was

Phil

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(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 13
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 7:33:44 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni


quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank

Hm, I would say the Canadians fought in Europe


........ dragged into the war by default with britain.

Warspite1

Canada played an important role in WWII. In particular her fast growing navy was vital during the Battle of the Atlantic and her ship building capacity was key in equipping her navy and helping to provide the escorts to defeat the U-boats. Her motor industry was also important, initially in helping replace vehicles losses at Dunkirk. As a Briton, I am grateful to the assistance of all the Dominions, Colonies and Territories of the Commonwealth, Canada - the oldest Dominion - not least among them.

What I don't understand is the need for the comment above which is a) simply not true and b) is just a typical snide remark against the UK

Canada's relatively small contribution to the Far East theatre is no doubt because her navy (which was mostly composed of escort vessels) was very much needed in the Atlantic, her air force was largely used to assist bomber and coastal commands and her small army (there was initially no conscription and only volunteers could serve overseas) was deployed in Italy and latter in north-west Europe.

This volunteer rule caused a problem in 1945 when the Canadian cruiser HMCS Uganda left the British Pacific Fleet, with whom she was deployed, and returned home. In May, Uganda's crew were polled to find out whether, after the defeat of Germany, they wanted to volunteer for further service against the Japanese. Two thirds of the crew said no and so the ship returned to Canada. It is said they received a frosty reception from US servicemen as she stopped off at Eniwetok and Pearl Harbor....






_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Sredni)
Post #: 14
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 7:46:10 AM   
vinnie71

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni


quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank

Hm, I would say the Canadians fought in Europe


Yes heh. From all the history I've read and learned in school I get the impression we never fought in the pacific at all. I know we were very heavily involved in europe from day one, dragged into the war by default with britain. But I never hear much about a Canadian airforce either. Though that I also know instead of joining a canadian airforce a lot of Canadians joined the British airforce. Though I don't know how true that was in WWII compared to WWI (I'm not sure if we even had an airforce in wwi lol).

One of the quotes I hear a lot is that Canada had the 3rd largest navy in the world at the end of the war. How large that could be I dunno (or weather it's in regard to # of hulls, or tonnage or what). Especially considering that the Japanese, German, Italian, and French navies had been decimated by that point it seems kinda like a self congratulatory claim. I bet 99% of the Canadian navy was involved in convoy duty to britain though.

I honestly know more about how other peoples countries participated in the war then my own. Canadian schools arn't really big on our own history.

Just for comparisons sake, right now Canada has a population of 34 million. The United States has a population of 309 million. Around 1/10th the population. Not sure how similar that ratio was during wwII, but it was probably pretty close. You guys have states with more population then our entire country lol.


TBH the lack of airframe production for Canada kinda disappoints me :/. It'd be great to put some Canadian airgroups to work. I wish I could spend political points to increase production, or to transfer some of the 100's of p40E's I have laying around gathering dust to other commands.


Yes the Canadians fought mainly in Europe, so much so that half the 'British' contribution to the invasion of Europe was in fact Canadian. I don't know much about Canadian involvement in the Pacific war, but from the rosters seen in game, they make a lot of sense.
Canada also produced a lot of stuff. Navally, it built up a lot of escorts of all types and true enough, shouldered a lot of the escort duties. They also helped build a sizeable amount of merchantmen which helped maintain tonnage available for all sorts of purposes.

Regarding airframes, Canada mostly produced ACs for Britain rather than for itself. Besides I'm under the impression that the Canadian AF was pretty small and that there were quite a lot of Canadian pilots in British squadrons that were never released or were never really concentrated in Canadian squadrons.

In the end Canada contributed mostly in three areas: boots on the ground, convoy escorts and raw materials as well (include food).

(in reply to Sredni)
Post #: 15
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 8:24:33 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Offworlder


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni


quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank

Hm, I would say the Canadians fought in Europe


Yes heh. From all the history I've read and learned in school I get the impression we never fought in the pacific at all. I know we were very heavily involved in europe from day one, dragged into the war by default with britain. But I never hear much about a Canadian airforce either. Though that I also know instead of joining a canadian airforce a lot of Canadians joined the British airforce. Though I don't know how true that was in WWII compared to WWI (I'm not sure if we even had an airforce in wwi lol).

One of the quotes I hear a lot is that Canada had the 3rd largest navy in the world at the end of the war. How large that could be I dunno (or weather it's in regard to # of hulls, or tonnage or what). Especially considering that the Japanese, German, Italian, and French navies had been decimated by that point it seems kinda like a self congratulatory claim. I bet 99% of the Canadian navy was involved in convoy duty to britain though.

I honestly know more about how other peoples countries participated in the war then my own. Canadian schools arn't really big on our own history.

Just for comparisons sake, right now Canada has a population of 34 million. The United States has a population of 309 million. Around 1/10th the population. Not sure how similar that ratio was during wwII, but it was probably pretty close. You guys have states with more population then our entire country lol.


TBH the lack of airframe production for Canada kinda disappoints me :/. It'd be great to put some Canadian airgroups to work. I wish I could spend political points to increase production, or to transfer some of the 100's of p40E's I have laying around gathering dust to other commands.


Yes the Canadians fought mainly in Europe, so much so that half the 'British' contribution to the invasion of Europe was in fact Canadian.

Warspite1

Nominally the contribution to 21st Army Group appears to be 50% British (2nd Army) and 50% Canadian (1st Army) which I assume is where you are getting your idea from. However, this is not the full story. Firstly half the "British" contribution was not provided by Canada - the two countries had their own armies. The British contribution was the British contribution.

Secondly, a proportion of the Canadian 1st Army had to be provided by overseas contingents to make up the numbers - typically a British corps and the Polish corps. With the overseas volunteer rule mentioned above, there simply weren't enough Canadian troops to properly form an Army sized unit. This is not said in anyway to denigrate the Canadian commitment to the second front, but to clarify your comment.

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Post #: 16
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 9:52:19 AM   
moonraker65


Posts: 556
Joined: 7/14/2004
From: Swindon,Wilts. UK
Status: offline 		Thwere were some Canadian Units involved in the retaking of Attu and Kiska in the Aleutian Campaign I thought ??

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 17
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 10:28:18 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: moonraker

Thwere were some Canadian Units involved in the retaking of Attu and Kiska in the Aleutian Campaign I thought ??

Warspite1

I think that Canadian troops were based in that region on the basis that they were not technically leaving North America (and so did not need to pass the volunteer test) but I do not know to what extent they were involved in combat. I would certainly be interest to know if anyone has any info on that.

_____________________________

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Post #: 18
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 11:24:22 AM   
Sredni

 

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni


quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank

Hm, I would say the Canadians fought in Europe


........ dragged into the war by default with britain.

Warspite1


What I don't understand is the need for the comment above which is a) simply not true and b) is just a typical snide remark against the UK




I honestly didn't mean it in a snide way, it's simply how it was, I guess I worded that poorly. WWI and WWII both, Canada was automatically at war once Britain went to war. There was no requirement for Canada to declare war for itself. Hindsight certainly shows that our involvement was both right and just, so nobody could quibble with the outcome. I'm sure there were some who resented being subservient in such a way, but things changed after the war in that we are no longer tied quite so closely so people can't complain about that anymore.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 19
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 11:36:06 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni


quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank

Hm, I would say the Canadians fought in Europe


........ dragged into the war by default with britain.

Warspite1


What I don't understand is the need for the comment above which is a) simply not true and b) is just a typical snide remark against the UK




I honestly didn't mean it in a snide way, it's simply how it was, I guess I worded that poorly. WWI and WWII both, Canada was automatically at war once Britain went to war. There was no requirement for Canada to declare war for itself. Hindsight certainly shows that our involvement was both right and just, so nobody could quibble with the outcome. I'm sure there were some who resented being subservient in such a way, but things changed after the war in that we are no longer tied quite so closely so people can't complain about that anymore.

Warspite1

Okay - but my understanding was that in WWI the declaration of war by Canada WAS automatic along with that of the UK, but in WWII the Canadian parliament took a week or so to decide of its own accord to declare war?

_____________________________

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Post #: 20
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 12:11:28 PM   
Sredni

 

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Okay - but my understanding was that in WWI the declaration of war by Canada WAS automatic along with that of the UK, but in WWII the Canadian parliament took a week or so to decide of its own accord to declare war?


well shucks... it seems you're right. heh.

http://www.canadianencyclopedia.ca/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0008717

As I said our country doesn't really go into it's own history that much. But still kinda embarrassing to have it explained to me by someone else lol.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 21
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 12:36:33 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Okay - but my understanding was that in WWI the declaration of war by Canada WAS automatic along with that of the UK, but in WWII the Canadian parliament took a week or so to decide of its own accord to declare war?


well shucks... it seems you're right. heh.

http://www.canadianencyclopedia.ca/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0008717

As I said our country doesn't really go into it's own history that much. But still kinda embarrassing to have it explained to me by someone else lol.

Warspite1

Thanks for the link Sredni . Sadly we are the same in the UK - too busy worrying about political correctness to teach our kids proper history

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Post #: 22
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 2:10:49 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		The best things about the Canadians in WiTP are the KVs  They are real sub killers !

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Post #: 23
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 6:41:12 PM   
Heeward


Posts: 343
Joined: 1/27/2003
From: Lacey Washington
Status: offline 		The 13th Brigade of the 6th Division was used in the invasion of Kiska, as well as the 1st Special Service Brigade.

My brief search of the internet shows no RCAF units committed to the Pacific prior to the fall of Germany outside of North America.




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Post #: 24
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 7:28:22 PM   
RCNVR


Posts: 13
Joined: 8/19/2006
From: British Columbia, Canada
Status: offline 		For the story of the war in Alask and the West Coast:

If the 14th Army was the "Forgotten Army" the campaign in Alaska and the West Coast is "The Forgotten War"which happens to be a book by Stan Cohen - A pictorial history of WWII in Alaska and Northwestern Canada - material from both US and Canada

For a more Canadian viewpoint read "War On Our Doorstep: The Unknown Campaign on North America's West Coast" by Brendan Coyle

These give some indication of the Canadian involvement in the Pacific War.

Of course most of Canada's contribution to WWII was in Europe. RCN in the Battle of the Atlantic, 1st Canandian Army in Italy and in Western Europe and RCAF

RCAF - about 35 sqdns overseas - 12 fighter 14 bomber - 6th Bomber Group was RCAF - about 1/4 of RAF Bomber Command was Canadian
About 60% of RCAF overseas served in RAF units

"On the first of January 1944 the RCAF reached its peak wartime strength of 215,200 all ranks (including 15,153) women, 104,000 were in the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan, 64,928 were serving at home and 46,272 were serving overseas. There were 78 squadrons in service: 35 overseas, 43 at home (of which six had been ordered overseas). " from http://wwii.ca/content-41/world-war-ii/rcaf/
Note that some of the home squadrons were on the West Coast and some (7 I think) were doing ASW in the Atlantic
Only 3 sqdns in SEA

RCN - about 95000 men and 400 vessels at peak
Mostly operational in North Atlantic - eventually provided about half the North Atlantic escorts. Also had ships on the Russian convoys, North Sea and Channel. Some ships served a short time in the Med during Torch though some MGBs served in the Adriatic. Not very much on the Pacific coast - a couple of AMC and some corvettes and minesweepers

Also had personel serving with RN - HMS Nabob had a mostly Canadian crew


Canadian Army - about half a million
1Div went to UK early in the war, landed in Sicily and moved to Italy and 1 Cdn Corp fought in Italian campaign,
2 Div went ashore at Dieppe and latter was part of 1st Canadian Army in Europe (did eventually liberate Dieppe)
3, 4, 5 Div fought in NW Europe

Not very many troops in Pacific
2 Cdn Bns were in Hong Kong
about 6000 combat troops involved in Alaska

So about 1 in 14 Canadians were in the Armed Forces - all volunteer except some conscription near the end and usually only for home defence

Note too that Canada produced a fair amount of military equipment as well as raw materials so industry was demanding manpower as well.

Canada had some problems with rapid expansion of its military.
At the start of the war it had 3 bns in the regular army, 2 sqdns of modern aircraft (Hurricanes) and 13 ships (8DD and 5 MSW) in the navy. This meant that most personel even fairly senior officers and NCOs were recent volunteers. This lack of experience caused problems in all services during the growth spurt especially the navy. Eventually training and experience improved though I don't think we ever really got up the the Brigade of Guards standards of dress and deportment.




_____________________________

"When you are about to kill someone it costs nothing to be polite." WS Churchill

(in reply to Raverdave)
Post #: 25
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 8:17:01 PM   
JSBoomer


Posts: 267
Joined: 11/5/2004
From: Edmonton Alberta
Status: offline 		Thanks RCNVR, you beat me to the punch!

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Jordan S. Bujtas
Deas Gu Cath


(in reply to RCNVR)
Post #: 26
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 11:15:33 PM   
vinnie71

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Interesting figures. But was this an arrangement that the Canadians had with the US (ie concentrate on Europe) or it just happened that way? Did the Canadian government ever want to withraw troops from the ETO?

(in reply to JSBoomer)
Post #: 27
RE: Canadians - 7/11/2010 11:55:53 PM   
RCNVR


Posts: 13
Joined: 8/19/2006
From: British Columbia, Canada
Status: offline 		Canada's commitment to the European and Atlantic Theatres started in 1939. I don't think that Canada was really worried about a Japanese invasion of the West Coast. Since the Japanese invasion of the Alaskan islands happened during Midway the threat of the Japanese working their way down the coast was not that high.

Canadian troops were already in the UK and I don't think there was any point in pulling them out to guard the West Coast, the same with aircraft there were already enough on the West Coast (ok I guess you can always use more aircraft but the need was not really there)

As far as the RCN goes they were fully committed to the Battle of the Atlantic and the forces there were not suited to the Pacific and losing the Battle of the Atlantic would have been a disaster (It was not won until 1943 and even then it continued until the very end)

I have never heard of a major attempt to redeploy forces to the Pacific until after the European war was over. There were several agreements with the US to coordinate the defence of North America. The US also did a lot of construction in Canada (highway and pipline) to improve supply to Alaska. Canada also built several airbases on the Westcoast as a defensive measure.

In game terms I am not sure where you would put extra Canadian forces. If you were given a couple of Cdn divisions would you leave them in Alaska? I would think most players would want them for India or Australia and IRL the Canadian government would rather have them in Europe. So I think that the game sets it up fairly well.

_____________________________

"When you are about to kill someone it costs nothing to be polite." WS Churchill

(in reply to vinnie71)
Post #: 28
RE: Canadians - 7/12/2010 12:50:50 PM   
xj900uk

 

Posts: 1340
Joined: 3/22/2007
Status: offline 		I tend to use the Canadian KV's for ASW work up and down the west coast, certainly for 41 & early 42 the USN is somewhat lacking in decent sub-killers...
Squadron-wise well I use the restricted search and torpedo planes for naval search and ASW work, there are surprisingly a large amount of (AI-controlled) Jap subs hanging around just outside Victoria waiting for the convoys to come out of places like Seattle. So far they have spotted several but I don't htink have sunk any (a Canadian minesweeper definitely hit a sub but I don't think sunk it)
It's now the middle of Feb '42, I used PP's to free up the first Kittyhawk squadron and sent it all the way to the SW Pacific where it saw service over Port Morseby - did pretty well but now only two planes left! so has gone to Australia for ome R&R. THe second Kitty hawk squadron is slowly making it's way out there to take over the skies above PM, together with at least one Canadian LCU saved (ie fled) from Hong Kong + another couple of Canadian militia units PP'ed and also sent out to the SW Pacific theatre - think the troops needed some warmth after the freezing cold of the Canadian winters (aren't i kind?)
Canadian Kittyhawks over PM have certianly done well - so far shot down about 10 IJ planes for the loss of 4. Dunno about replacements though...

(in reply to RCNVR)
Post #: 29
RE: Canadians - 7/12/2010 1:02:19 PM   
vinnie71

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Go for the Hurricanes. That is when the Canadians will come on their own, patroling the skies above their bases with Hurricanes.

BTW are there any engineer units which can be transferred. A few infantry brigades is ok, but without engineers, they are somewhat limited...

(in reply to xj900uk)
Post #: 30
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