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Armour pathfinding... - 7/19/2010 7:27:12 PM   
Foolio


Posts: 27
Joined: 5/19/2010
Status: offline 		Oh dear oh dear. After playing for a few hours and really enjoying it, apart from the odd niggle, I've just played my first map containing armour. Either the pathfinding has got worse since the original CC2, or I 'd just forgotten how terrible it was in the original.

Could someone tell me honestly if this is going to be fixed in the first patch?

Post #: 1
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 7/21/2010 6:05:36 AM   
zon

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline 		Well, it's no better than CC2 because waypointing your vehicles about will get you the old "can't go there" response 50 per cent of the time, even on paved, wide roads. Just click on a target, though, and your driver might happily start moving, but off on a strange path, ending in immobilization or worse. So we are back essentially to short movement commands, just like in CC2.

(in reply to Foolio)
Post #: 2
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 7/21/2010 8:39:14 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		...i am blind...i am blind WTF were is the road....its 2010 yes?

Tigercub!

_____________________________


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life

(in reply to zon)
Post #: 3
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 7/22/2010 12:19:32 AM   
DasHoff


Posts: 109
Joined: 8/11/2009
Status: offline 		on the first map, where your british armor fights the stug, i told my tank to go over the bridge and then moved my attention to other stuff; he decided to go through the trees instead and got immobilised, and i lost the tank :(

you've gotta understand this is a very old game though; i'm fine with the tank AI all things considered. if they ever bring out a new cc with better graphics and such, then yeah i'll expect better haha

(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 4
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 7/22/2010 9:21:51 AM   
7A_Woulf

 

Posts: 91
Joined: 1/28/2010
Status: offline 		-Never, ever, leave a tank to move on their own!
Especially with LSAs point-system, they are too valuable to take field-trips, loosing tracks and then be removed from the unit rooster...

Sadly, my kids don't play CC so I guess none in my family will ever see a tank with proper pathing.

(in reply to DasHoff)
Post #: 5
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 7/22/2010 1:06:34 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DasHoff



you've gotta understand this is a very old game though;


Yes, with a very NEW game price tag! I expect more.

(in reply to DasHoff)
Post #: 6
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 7/22/2010 6:00:56 PM   
Foolio


Posts: 27
Joined: 5/19/2010
Status: offline 		On the first map of the grand campaing (I think) it took me 5 minutes to get my lead tank over the bridge...5 minutes of trying to stop it from taking rediculous routes and constant "can't go there" reports...arrrgggghhh. The only way I could get it over te bridge was by about setting about 30 waypoints 1mm apart. The second tank decided to go via some trees again and lost a track and got imobilised.

It's junk. I shut the game down.

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 7
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 7/22/2010 6:04:50 PM   
Dundradal


Posts: 753
Joined: 6/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Foolio

On the first map of the grand campaing (I think) it took me 5 minutes to get my lead tank over the bridge...5 minutes of trying to stop it from taking rediculous routes and constant "can't go there" reports...arrrgggghhh. The only way I could get it over te bridge was by about setting about 30 waypoints 1mm apart. The second tank decided to go via some trees again and lost a track and got imobilised.

It's junk. I shut the game down.


I had a similar problem. I actually found that NOT using waypoints to cross the bridge worked. I moved my tanks one at a time about 3-5 meters away from the start of the bridge then gave them a waypoint to the other end. More often than not they followed the bridge correctly.

On other maps this isn't as bad, it's just that map with that road that is really a pain in the ass. Give it another try on another battle.

(in reply to Foolio)
Post #: 8
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 7/22/2010 8:05:03 PM   
TheReal_Pak40

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/8/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 7A_Woulf

-Never, ever, leave a tank to move on their own!
Especially with LSAs point-system, they are too valuable to take field-trips, loosing tracks and then be removed from the unit rooster...

Sadly, my kids don't play CC so I guess none in my family will ever see a tank with proper pathing.



I had two tanks immobilized on the first map with XXX Corps, not because I let them move on their own, but because I gave them specific waypoint orders that should have been followed, but the tanks decided they couldn't fit in the space provided and tried to go through trees and a stone wall instead. BTW, one of the tanks was ordered to go down the road and cross the bridge yet it still decided that going over the stone wall was a better choice. FUBAR.

(in reply to 7A_Woulf)
Post #: 9
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 7/23/2010 2:51:15 AM   
Tejszd

 

Posts: 3437
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		Foolio, path finding will be in the 2nd patch; http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2526664&mpage=1&key=�

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

First, thanks to all of you for your patience and your continued support of Close Combat. Just a heads up, here's a preliminary (not final) list of what's coming in the first update, hopefully in about a week. The second update will focus on improving pathfinding and will be about four weeks after the first update.

* Fixed a bug where strategic AI attack moves could be canceled when multiple battle groups were attacking the same map from multiple directions.

* Tweaked strategic AI aggressiveness for case where a single battle group is evaluating an attack move by itself.

* "Save As" from the debrief screen now makes a copy of the post-battle saved game file, rather than saving the game state shown on the Debrief screen.

* Fixed a bug where a battle was expected on a map with no Allied battle group when 1) Axis static troops were on the map, 2) an Axis battle group was forced to retreat onto the map, and 3) the battle which caused the Axis battle group to retreat was not the last battle of the turn.

* Fixed a bug where an incorrect circular dependency was created when the last move in a chain of moves (with each battle group waiting on the one at their destination to move) is from a map that has a higher map index than any of the other maps in the chain.

* Fixed CR/LF characters showing up as boxes in the briefing text on some versions of Windows XP.

* Three map file fixes. One RFM, one BTD and one BGM.

* Fixed sound cue error in the GeVox.sfx file.


(in reply to TheReal_Pak40)
Post #: 10
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 5:15:47 AM   
Dundradal


Posts: 753
Joined: 6/9/2007
Status: offline 		I definitely see a huge improvement in the armor pathfinding so far. I've played the Eidenhoven map and my cromwells navigated around the city extremely well. I was pretty surprised to watch them. I haven't tried the first map (name has fallen out of my head at the moment) to see how they handle that bridge. Anybody want to see how they navigate that road now?

_____________________________

"To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul.
Go."
- Final Terminal Message Marathon Infinity

(in reply to Tejszd)
Post #: 11
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 5:42:59 AM   
TheReal_Pak40

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/8/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dundradal

I definitely see a huge improvement in the armor pathfinding so far. I've played the Eidenhoven map and my cromwells navigated around the city extremely well. I was pretty surprised to watch them. I haven't tried the first map (name has fallen out of my head at the moment) to see how they handle that bridge. Anybody want to see how they navigate that road now?


It's actually quite horrible. Keep playing, you will see. Multi-waypoints are usually result in the "can't go there" voice. Smaller roads near trees and also with bridges are a nightmare. You give orders to tanks and they immediately turn the opposite direction. Honestly, I've been playing CC since the very first one and this is the worst vehicle path finding I've seen. Every new iteration of CC the developers have claimed that they have fixed or tweaked the vehicle path finding but it's always been pretty bad. I've just given up hope. If they can't fix it after 10 CC releases then they'll never be able to fix it.

(in reply to Dundradal)
Post #: 12
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 5:45:43 AM   
Dundradal


Posts: 753
Joined: 6/9/2007
Status: offline 		No, from what I've seen it's not too bad. There is still definitely some problems but I'm not seeing as much driving off to nowhereville to move 2 meters forward as often. Although I do notice the command cromwell seems to do it more often than the regular cromwells.

Like I said, I've only played Eidenhoven so far with armor. Still some issues, but not as bad as it was prior.

_____________________________

"To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul.
Go."
- Final Terminal Message Marathon Infinity

(in reply to TheReal_Pak40)
Post #: 13
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 6:41:36 AM   
Dundradal


Posts: 753
Joined: 6/9/2007
Status: offline 		After playing a few more maps...yeah when armor has room to move...it still moves quite a bit. 5 meters becomes 25 meters of travel...it did work well on the city streets though...

_____________________________

"To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul.
Go."
- Final Terminal Message Marathon Infinity

(in reply to Dundradal)
Post #: 14
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 7:06:06 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		My AC in the city streets-> it was a joke i stopped playing the campain..when they fix plathing ill go back and look at it.


Tigercub!

_____________________________


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life

(in reply to Dundradal)
Post #: 15
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 1:34:48 PM   
Dundradal


Posts: 753
Joined: 6/9/2007
Status: offline 		They were ok in Eidenhoven, but on Best they were doing a bit of dancing in the fields.

_____________________________

"To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul.
Go."
- Final Terminal Message Marathon Infinity

(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 16
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 2:56:03 PM   
TheReal_Pak40

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/8/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dundradal

They were ok in Eidenhoven, but on Best they were doing a bit of dancing in the fields.


Eindhoven has wide roads for the most part so you wont see as many problems. Try the first battle in the Grand Campaign where you get several Shermans. You'll be pulling your hair out when your tank decides to go off road into trees after you give it a simple move order to cross a bridge on a road which it is already on.

(in reply to Dundradal)
Post #: 17
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 3:08:32 PM   
RD Oddball

 

Posts: 4836
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline 		Since the pathfinder improvements haven't been implemented yet you shouldn't see anything more than perhaps minimal improvement. Any noticeable improvement to the pathfinder that patch one provides will be because the AI is behaving better not because any work was done on the pathfinder itself. Patch 2 will include improvements to the pathfinder.

(in reply to TheReal_Pak40)
Post #: 18
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 4:32:58 PM   
7A_Woulf

 

Posts: 91
Joined: 1/28/2010
Status: offline 		Valkenwaard map is HELL!! Last GC I started (with the Beta patch) I lost a 136-points Command Sherman since they thought it was better to drive in the trees beside the highway, rather than along my waypoints on it... In the new GC (with the last patch) I left my Command Sherman waaaaaaaaaay back, since they were starting to go off-road into the forest, when I ordered them to follow that bloody highway north.

Think one of the problems is that the highway is too narrow, not sure, but it's a theory. 

(in reply to RD Oddball)
Post #: 19
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 5:29:28 PM   
RD Oddball

 

Posts: 4836
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline 		The environment should never be the issue. Either an area is passable or it's not. If it's passable it should be able to be navigated by the pathfinder. We agreed that the pathfinder needed further improvements and they will be available in the next update.

(in reply to 7A_Woulf)
Post #: 20
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 7:11:12 PM   
Dundradal


Posts: 753
Joined: 6/9/2007
Status: offline 		Ahhh so it was more the Eidenhoven map than any actual improvements. Check.

_____________________________

"To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul.
Go."
- Final Terminal Message Marathon Infinity

(in reply to RD Oddball)
Post #: 21
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 7:43:35 PM   
Ivan_Zaitzev


Posts: 49
Joined: 6/19/2009
Status: offline 		I really, really like LSA, I think its a great game and some bugs are inevitable.
But this pathfinding stuff just cracks me up, how can you release a game with a huge bug like the "Can´t go there" one?
Its one of the biggest, most notable flaws and it needs a 2nd patch to be fixed?
Was the game tested before releasing? Because everybody notes this, how is it possible a testing team did not noticed it? And if they did, how is it possible they released the game before fixing it?
Some stuff like "glass trees" and "Girlie soldiers" might be a difference in opinions, but this "can´t go there" thing is clearly a bug.

(in reply to Dundradal)
Post #: 22
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 7:54:28 PM   
Cathartes

 

Posts: 2155
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		With far better than Vegas odds, I'm currently placing a large wager that vehicle pathfinding will be dramatically transformed.

(in reply to Ivan_Zaitzev)
Post #: 23
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/6/2010 8:24:26 PM   
RD Oddball

 

Posts: 4836
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline 		@ cathartes & rest of testing team - Lets not get hopes built up please. I'd prefer any anticipations or reactions be a completely determined by each person on their own. Let users be the judge. Thanks.

Technically speaking it will, in our opinions, still only be an improvement. Lets leave it at that.

(in reply to Cathartes)
Post #: 24
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/13/2010 7:37:34 PM   
dandechino

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 8/13/2010
Status: offline 		Hoping this is addressed quickly.

(in reply to RD Oddball)
Post #: 25
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/27/2010 3:17:54 AM   
Sfox28

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 9/27/2003
From: Haleiwa, Hawaii
Status: offline 		This vehicle path-finding is the worst problem in the game! I've noticed that using "sneak" seems to work better than move or fast move. But alas, it still makes you move in "baby-steps"!

Mahalo,

(in reply to dandechino)
Post #: 26
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/27/2010 8:10:36 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		A hint of things to come

http://closecombat.matrixgames.com/LSA/vids/LSA1/LSA1.html


i think some of the more inadequate performance issues may be addressed.

< Message edited by Andrew Williams -- 8/27/2010 8:24:08 AM >

(in reply to Sfox28)
Post #: 27
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/27/2010 10:07:41 AM   
Renato

 

Posts: 194
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Milano, Italy
Status: offline 		You haven't avoided difficulties.

It seems pretty good. Let's hope!

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 28
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/27/2010 10:45:42 AM   
Manu

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 7/22/2010
Status: offline 		wow, is it possible?

< Message edited by Manu -- 8/27/2010 10:46:12 AM >

(in reply to Renato)
Post #: 29
RE: Armour pathfinding... - 8/27/2010 2:43:07 PM   
TheReal_Pak40

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/8/2003
Status: offline 		Andrew, that certainly seems like an improvement. Now how bout the Deployment AI? When is this going to be fixed? It would improve the game tenfold.

(in reply to Manu)
Post #: 30
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