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Bombardment? - 7/23/2010 10:20:01 AM   
Le Ricain

 

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Joined: 2/13/2010
From: Aberdeen, Scotland
Status: offline 		How do you actually do a bombardment? I mean apart from the obvious: setting the TF to bombardment. Do you need to do anything else? My BB in their Bombardment TF's seem to be floating around not doing much while the Amphib TF are getting slaughtered.

Thanks

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RE: Bombardment? - 7/23/2010 10:27:58 AM   
michaelm75au


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From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Give the TF the Bombardment mission and destination of the target hex.
It arrives and bombards, and then reverts to a Surface mission.

A BB in an invasion force fires at enemy defenses initially, and then at the enemy defenses whenever they fire at the invading forces. They are also useful for soaking up some of the attacker's firepower.


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RE: Bombardment? - 7/23/2010 10:48:50 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Did you check ammo?  After a bombardment run or two, your BB's main guns are dry.
And as the previous post indicated... a BB that is part of the Amphibious TF will draw fire from the Coastal Defense and save your transports. They will also fire back.
The BB in a Bombardment TF stops doing anything after the bombardment run (actually it can chase surface ships).

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RE: Bombardment? - 7/23/2010 1:06:45 PM   
Le Ricain

 

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From: Aberdeen, Scotland
Status: offline 		I see . After the Bombardment TF has arrived, you need to place its ships into your Amphibious TF so that thye can help protect the transports. Thanks

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/14/2016 9:31:35 AM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline 		Hello Michaelm.

Glad making your acquientance.

If i am interested to perform a DAYLIGHT bombardement only, is there a way to achieve it?

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/14/2016 9:43:40 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Hello Michaelm.

Glad making your acquientance.

If i am interested to perform a DAYLIGHT bombardement only, is there a way to achieve it?


You have already been told, in your own created thread, how to do a daylight bombardment.

You have a habit in all your created threads of simply not accepting the explanations from knowledgeable players, of either how to accomplish what you want to do or why it cannot be done. Such an attitude will result in players who know how this game operates simply not bothering to answer your questions.

Alfred

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Post #: 6
RE: Bombardment? - 12/14/2016 10:11:07 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

You have already been told, in your own created thread, how to do a daylight bombardment.



It doesn't work.

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Post #: 7
RE: Bombardment? - 12/14/2016 12:27:02 PM   
Trugrit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

You have already been told, in your own created thread, how to do a daylight bombardment.



It doesn't work.


It can be done.
You just don’t know what you are doing.

Some things in this game have to be done in a certain sequence.

What you want is a tactical picture just like the one below.
Use the F4 key to show the naval movement range circles.

I like to run in surface Task forces and then change to bombardment when I have the correct tactical picture.

You want to be two movement phases to the target as shown.
Then, first change the destination to the target.
Then change the mission to bombardment.
Set the Task Force to remain on station and run the turn.

The task force will move to the target and bombard in daylight.






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RE: Bombardment? - 12/14/2016 12:32:43 PM   
Trugrit


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Part 2,






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RE: Bombardment? - 12/14/2016 2:34:37 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline 		I think i understand that, Trugrit (whatever your real name);

but suppose the case you're already at the target, or enough close to it;

I tried to give the 1st waypoint far away from target that much the ship shall be back at target in day impulse (12h), with command "remain on station" on of course, but still it did perform the night bombardment first, and then immediately changed to "surface" mission. I'll do other trials.


anyhow, i think, with the due respect but let's not be excessively sensible thing that is out of place and its convenience, that a command "bombard day/night or both" could be added;

alternatively at least, the system could be set in a way that "remain on station" prevent the assigned ship from reverting automatically to surface combat mode;


Am i missing something?

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 12/14/2016 2:36:48 PM >

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/14/2016 2:46:31 PM   
HansBolter


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Status: offline 		DON"T USE WAYPOINTS.

Waypoints are guaranteed to screw up bombardment runs.

If you need a waypoint, set a destination with do not retire order for the hex you want to be the waypoint.
Then after you arrive, set the destination target.

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/14/2016 7:27:34 PM   
BBfanboy


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Status: offline 		And I think it has been mentioned before - the AI will normally not allow a bombardment to take place if your TF is already in the target hex - it seems to require a run-in of at least one hex. Many time I have had to retreat one hex before setting the bombardment in the following turn.

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/14/2016 7:58:42 PM   
dave sindel

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

And I think it has been mentioned before - the AI will normally not allow a bombardment to take place if your TF is already in the target hex - it seems to require a run-in of at least one hex. Many time I have had to retreat one hex before setting the bombardment in the following turn.


Interesting.. Last turn I had a SCTF in Milne Bay hex. Changed their orders to bombardment, and they conducted the bombardment this turn without ever leaving the hex, so it can happen that way. This was the only time I've ever tried it though....

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/14/2016 8:04:56 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dave sindel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

And I think it has been mentioned before - the AI will normally not allow a bombardment to take place if your TF is already in the target hex - it seems to require a run-in of at least one hex. Many time I have had to retreat one hex before setting the bombardment in the following turn.


Interesting.. Last turn I had a SCTF in Milne Bay hex. Changed their orders to bombardment, and they conducted the bombardment this turn without ever leaving the hex, so it can happen that way. This was the only time I've ever tried it though....


Was it a nighttime or daytime bombardment?

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/14/2016 8:10:10 PM   
dave sindel

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: dave sindel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

And I think it has been mentioned before - the AI will normally not allow a bombardment to take place if your TF is already in the target hex - it seems to require a run-in of at least one hex. Many time I have had to retreat one hex before setting the bombardment in the following turn.


Interesting.. Last turn I had a SCTF in Milne Bay hex. Changed their orders to bombardment, and they conducted the bombardment this turn without ever leaving the hex, so it can happen that way. This was the only time I've ever tried it though....


Was it a nighttime or daytime bombardment?


I think daytime. But I was on beer # 4 when that part of the replay ran, and the details might be a tad fuzzy....

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/14/2016 8:22:07 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dave sindel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: dave sindel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

And I think it has been mentioned before - the AI will normally not allow a bombardment to take place if your TF is already in the target hex - it seems to require a run-in of at least one hex. Many time I have had to retreat one hex before setting the bombardment in the following turn.


Interesting.. Last turn I had a SCTF in Milne Bay hex. Changed their orders to bombardment, and they conducted the bombardment this turn without ever leaving the hex, so it can happen that way. This was the only time I've ever tried it though....


Was it a nighttime or daytime bombardment?


I think daytime. But I was on beer # 4 when that part of the replay ran, and the details might be a tad fuzzy....



This definitely works. I do it all of the time to get a last bit out of a TF if it made a daytime bombardment the day before (set to remain) and before leaving during the next night phase it will bombard again. Works every time.

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/14/2016 10:04:24 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: dave sindel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: dave sindel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

And I think it has been mentioned before - the AI will normally not allow a bombardment to take place if your TF is already in the target hex - it seems to require a run-in of at least one hex. Many time I have had to retreat one hex before setting the bombardment in the following turn.


Interesting.. Last turn I had a SCTF in Milne Bay hex. Changed their orders to bombardment, and they conducted the bombardment this turn without ever leaving the hex, so it can happen that way. This was the only time I've ever tried it though....


Was it a nighttime or daytime bombardment?


I think daytime. But I was on beer # 4 when that part of the replay ran, and the details might be a tad fuzzy....



This definitely works. I do it all of the time to get a last bit out of a TF if it made a daytime bombardment the day before (set to remain) and before leaving during the next night phase it will bombard again. Works every time.

I may have been thinking of bombardments in non-base hexes - I just can't get them to happen if I start out in the same hex.

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Post #: 17
RE: Bombardment? - 12/16/2016 5:25:43 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		for BombTFs in restricted waters against non-base hexes, it can make a difference which hexside the BombTF enters from. I had a great deal of trouble tasking BombTFs to attack hex 56,54 - the road hex that connects Pegu to Moulmein. When I tasked a BombTF against that hex, it would enter from the SW and never Bombard. In frustration, I used a waypoint 1 hex to the west of the target & my BombTFs slid in & executed their orders. Recently, I've been tasking BombTFs to hit Sabang from Port Blair, using a waypoint (retire same route) to the west of Great Nicobar. These TFs have been crunching Sabang to good effect! I reject HansBolter's 'don't use waypoints' advice.

I don't understand adarbraunars's insistence on daytime Bombardments - it gifts his enemy's air & SurfTFs with a huge advantage to a riposte counter-strike. Why wait to bombard in daylight, when you can bombard at midnight & be 3 or more hexes downrange at the end of the 2nd naval movement phase?

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/16/2016 6:22:27 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

for BombTFs in restricted waters against non-base hexes, it can make a difference which hexside the BombTF enters from. I had a great deal of trouble tasking BombTFs to attack hex 56,54 - the road hex that connects Pegu to Moulmein. When I tasked a BombTF against that hex, it would enter from the SW and never Bombard. In frustration, I used a waypoint 1 hex to the west of the target & my BombTFs slid in & executed their orders. Recently, I've been tasking BombTFs to hit Sabang from Port Blair, using a waypoint (retire same route) to the west of Great Nicobar. These TFs have been crunching Sabang to good effect! I reject HansBolter's 'don't use waypoints' advice.

I don't understand adarbraunars's insistence on daytime Bombardments - it gifts his enemy's air & SurfTFs with a huge advantage to a riposte counter-strike. Why wait to bombard in daylight, when you can bombard at midnight & be 3 or more hexes downrange at the end of the 2nd naval movement phase?

Night bombardment of a coast? Only under duress and out of quasi desperate conditions.

think by yourself: if you were a member of the crew, and tasked with such a mission with darkenss?

And again: not only Guadalcanal, but also Tarawa

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/16/2016 4:57:19 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
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From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Daytime bombardment is more effective, but is only to be used when you have control of the air. If you set up for daytime bombardments in waters where your opponent has control of the air you are risking the sacrifice of those ships in the bombardment TF.

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/16/2016 7:23:26 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

for BombTFs in restricted waters against non-base hexes, it can make a difference which hexside the BombTF enters from. I had a great deal of trouble tasking BombTFs to attack hex 56,54 - the road hex that connects Pegu to Moulmein. When I tasked a BombTF against that hex, it would enter from the SW and never Bombard. In frustration, I used a waypoint 1 hex to the west of the target & my BombTFs slid in & executed their orders. Recently, I've been tasking BombTFs to hit Sabang from Port Blair, using a waypoint (retire same route) to the west of Great Nicobar. These TFs have been crunching Sabang to good effect! I reject HansBolter's 'don't use waypoints' advice.

I don't understand adarbraunars's insistence on daytime Bombardments - it gifts his enemy's air & SurfTFs with a huge advantage to a riposte counter-strike. Why wait to bombard in daylight, when you can bombard at midnight & be 3 or more hexes downrange at the end of the 2nd naval movement phase?

Night bombardment of a coast? Only under duress and out of quasi desperate conditions.

think by yourself: if you were a member of the crew, and tasked with such a mission with darkenss?

And again: not only Guadalcanal, but also Tarawa


The Japanese did it almost on a nightly basis at the Canal. This is what the game primarily focuses on modeling dating back to the origins in Uncommon Valor.
The later war situation with Allied ships sitting offshore for days under unassailable CAP and bombarding for days on end can still be implemented within the game mechanics.

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/17/2016 4:28:06 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
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From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

for BombTFs in restricted waters against non-base hexes, it can make a difference which hexside the BombTF enters from. I had a great deal of trouble tasking BombTFs to attack hex 56,54 - the road hex that connects Pegu to Moulmein. When I tasked a BombTF against that hex, it would enter from the SW and never Bombard. In frustration, I used a waypoint 1 hex to the west of the target & my BombTFs slid in & executed their orders. Recently, I've been tasking BombTFs to hit Sabang from Port Blair, using a waypoint (retire same route) to the west of Great Nicobar. These TFs have been crunching Sabang to good effect! I reject HansBolter's 'don't use waypoints' advice.

I don't understand adarbraunars's insistence on daytime Bombardments - it gifts his enemy's air & SurfTFs with a huge advantage to a riposte counter-strike. Why wait to bombard in daylight, when you can bombard at midnight & be 3 or more hexes downrange at the end of the 2nd naval movement phase?

Night bombardment of a coast? Only under duress and out of quasi desperate conditions.

think by yourself: if you were a member of the crew, and tasked with such a mission with darkenss?

And again: not only Guadalcanal, but also Tarawa


The Japanese did it almost on a nightly basis at the Canal. This is what the game primarily focuses on modeling dating back to the origins in Uncommon Valor.
The later war situation with Allied ships sitting offshore for days under unassailable CAP and bombarding for days on end can still be implemented within the game mechanics.

Hans, this is exactly what i thought, and wrote as well in a previous post of mine (the "Guadacanal syndrome"), and got attacked as well by some forumites for this.

I disagree, meanwhile, with you only in this: that it cannot be so easily implemented in game under actual game rules.

Since is you that made this point, so therefore
i dare saying, proposing and suggesting, that I'd like to see an option day bombardement, night bombardemnt, or both.

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/17/2016 11:15:21 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

for BombTFs in restricted waters against non-base hexes, it can make a difference which hexside the BombTF enters from. I had a great deal of trouble tasking BombTFs to attack hex 56,54 - the road hex that connects Pegu to Moulmein. When I tasked a BombTF against that hex, it would enter from the SW and never Bombard. In frustration, I used a waypoint 1 hex to the west of the target & my BombTFs slid in & executed their orders. Recently, I've been tasking BombTFs to hit Sabang from Port Blair, using a waypoint (retire same route) to the west of Great Nicobar. These TFs have been crunching Sabang to good effect! I reject HansBolter's 'don't use waypoints' advice.

I don't understand adarbraunars's insistence on daytime Bombardments - it gifts his enemy's air & SurfTFs with a huge advantage to a riposte counter-strike. Why wait to bombard in daylight, when you can bombard at midnight & be 3 or more hexes downrange at the end of the 2nd naval movement phase?

Night bombardment of a coast? Only under duress and out of quasi desperate conditions.

think by yourself: if you were a member of the crew, and tasked with such a mission with darkenss?

And again: not only Guadalcanal, but also Tarawa


The Japanese did it almost on a nightly basis at the Canal. This is what the game primarily focuses on modeling dating back to the origins in Uncommon Valor.
The later war situation with Allied ships sitting offshore for days under unassailable CAP and bombarding for days on end can still be implemented within the game mechanics.

Hans, this is exactly what i thought, and wrote as well in a previous post of mine (the "Guadacanal syndrome"), and got attacked as well by some forumites for this.

I disagree, meanwhile, with you only in this: that it cannot be so easily implemented in game under actual game rules.

Since is you that made this point, so therefore
i dare saying, proposing and suggesting, that I'd like to see an option day bombardement, night bombardemnt, or both.


This is already available in game. Try the manual.

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/18/2016 2:59:15 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Status: offline 		And.... Naval bombardment is the only means by which ships may attack enemy ships at anchor.

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/19/2016 10:50:20 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert



This is already available in game. Try the manual.




The manual??

Current bombardment system is much unsatisfactory and yes, do not fear to say that because there's nothing bad or offensive or diminutive in it, heavily flawed and/or limiting, unless otherwise explained, in this that:

daylight bombardment under current settings is possible if the ship reaches the target in the daylight phase ONLY; if it reaches it or otherwise already present during night phase, WHICH is NOTORIOUSLY THE FIRST, it shall perform a night bombardment and then revert automatically to combat surface mission, with nothing that the player/commander could do about it.

I currently have a capital ship already at target, which has to be moved far in open water infested with too much eeficient enemy subs, wait a whole day, and then perform a complicated path to ensure - maybe - that it shall reach target anyhow during daylight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hans Bolter

...and can still be implemented within the game mechanics.


How


< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 12/19/2016 11:01:11 AM >

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Post #: 25
RE: Bombardment? - 12/19/2016 11:05:57 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


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Status: offline 		While it is indeed possible to stage daylight bombardments in the game as it is, separate mission options for "hit-and-run bombardment Guadalcanal style" at night and "slow, deliberate pre-invasion bombardment Tinian style" at day would make things easier and less confusing (and less prone to trigger threads like this one).


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RE: Bombardment? - 12/19/2016 11:40:03 AM   
Trugrit


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I think that some of us don’t understand your fetish for daylight bombardment.
Bombardment is what it is because it was designed that way.

Most of us assume that you want to learn the game as designed.
We can help you with that but we cannot help you with anything that was not designed into the game.

From personal experience I have no evidence that day bombardment produces better results
Than night bombardment when the total game parameters are considered.
Questions like that tend to travel into the realm of personal superstition.

Be advised that you will find more things similar to this in the game as designed.
The “unsatisfactory”, “heavily flawed” is entirely up to you as it is with all games.

You will just drive us crazy with “Why is the earth not flat?” type questions.

The real question for you is:
Can you learn, play and enjoy the game as designed or can you not?
If not then maybe this is not the game for you.

There are some very good Chess clubs on the net.

Then the question for you is:
Can you play the game of Chess as designed or can you not?


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Post #: 27
RE: Bombardment? - 12/19/2016 12:11:48 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


I think that some of us don’t understand your fetish for daylight bombardment.
Bombardment is what it is because it was designed that way.

Most of us assume that you want to learn the game as designed.
We can help you with that but we cannot help you with anything that was not designed into the game.

From personal experience I have no evidence that day bombardment produces better results
Than night bombardment when the total game parameters are considered.
Questions like that tend to travel into the realm of personal superstition.

Be advised that you will find more things similar to this in the game as designed.
The “unsatisfactory”, “heavily flawed” is entirely up to you as it is with all games.

You will just drive us crazy with “Why is the earth not flat?” type questions.

The real question for you is:
Can you learn, play and enjoy the game as designed or can you not?
If not then maybe this is not the game for you.

There are some very good Chess clubs on the net.

Then the question for you is:
Can you play the game of Chess as designed or can you not?




The game??

But why doesn't every piece jump over other pieces like the knight can do? I really want to play by bishop first move instead of my knight or a pawn. A bishop is much more effective than a knight. Why can't I do that?


< Message edited by obvert -- 12/19/2016 12:12:22 PM >

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RE: Bombardment? - 12/19/2016 1:09:45 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


I think that some of us don’t understand your fetish for daylight bombardment.
Bombardment is what it is because it was designed that way.

Most of us assume that you want to learn the game as designed.
We can help you with that but we cannot help you with anything that was not designed into the game.

From personal experience I have no evidence that day bombardment produces better results
Than night bombardment when the total game parameters are considered.
Questions like that tend to travel into the realm of personal superstition.

Be advised that you will find more things similar to this in the game as designed.
The “unsatisfactory”, “heavily flawed” is entirely up to you as it is with all games.

You will just drive us crazy with “Why is the earth not flat?” type questions.

The real question for you is:
Can you learn, play and enjoy the game as designed or can you not?
If not then maybe this is not the game for you.

There are some very good Chess clubs on the net.

Then the question for you is:
Can you play the game of Chess as designed or can you not?



Such a reaction is difficult to understand;

Because one feature or characteristic is seemingly not proper, but easy to be corrected, can't it be recognized?

everything has , mandatorily, to be perfect?

You mentioned fetishism, but here may be possible to speak about taboos (in a pretty tangible way sometimes) either; one may think that the public here has "suffered"(?) in the past by venomous remarks or the sort of, and therefore developed a strong idiosincrancy to any of them;

cannot grasp it meanwhile;

are we comparing this wargame to chess? Under what aspects?

Chess is a very ancient game, which bears with it hundreds and towsends of gameplay, insight , research related books;
how much time did it take to consildate its rules? is it susceptible to changes, or corrections, patches, or new versions?

(in reply to Trugrit)
Post #: 29
RE: Bombardment? - 12/19/2016 3:14:17 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert



This is already available in game. Try the manual.




The manual??

Current bombardment system is much unsatisfactory and yes, do not fear to say that because there's nothing bad or offensive or diminutive in it, heavily flawed and/or limiting, unless otherwise explained, in this that:

daylight bombardment under current settings is possible if the ship reaches the target in the daylight phase ONLY; if it reaches it or otherwise already present during night phase, WHICH is NOTORIOUSLY THE FIRST, it shall perform a night bombardment and then revert automatically to combat surface mission, with nothing that the player/commander could do about it.

I currently have a capital ship already at target, which has to be moved far in open water infested with too much eeficient enemy subs, wait a whole day, and then perform a complicated path to ensure - maybe - that it shall reach target anyhow during daylight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hans Bolter

...and can still be implemented within the game mechanics.


How


Daylight bombardments by the same TF after a night bombardment do happen, but there are some things that seem to influence the chances in my game:
- the TF must not shoot off too much of its ammo on the night phase (or it will revert to a SCTF)
- there must be a good DL on the target the previous turn, continued during the night by a float plane set to Recon mission, night ops, 0 range, no target (I use 1000 feet altitude)
- a second FP must be set to day recon, 0 range, no target specified (I use 5000 feet altitude)
- the TF commander should be quite aggressive (which makes him more likely to be persistent and more tolerant of ammo usage).

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 30
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