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Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 3:56:53 AM

Rising-Sun

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When i first saw this came out, wasnt sure if i will like it. Doesnt look like 3D at all, just pic that looks 3D and all flat during space battles. But what about the land/planets? Something like this i wouldnt pay much for it, sure hell aint worth fifty bucks. Im old time favorite of MoO Series and been looking for some good ones, Space Empire V, Galactic Civ II and few others, but this one seem interesting and reasonable price...
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-SR/star-ruler

Now that 3D environment in space, infact you can have as much as you want depend on your CPU and GPUs.
And highly modable software and that is good too :)

< Message edited by RisingSun -- 8/4/2010 3:59:44 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 4:01:03 AM

Chet Guiles

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I'd have to respectfully disagree. 3D might be nice, but I'd rate this game as well worth my $50. Playability is good, graphics (though not the MOST important aspect for me) are good, and I alike that it's mod-able so I can have the Star Trek or Star Wars ship-sets/music.

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RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 4:08:48 AM

Rising-Sun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chet Guiles

I'd have to respectfully disagree. 3D might be nice, but I'd rate this game as well worth my $50. Playability is good, graphics (though not the MOST important aspect for me) are good, and I alike that it's mod-able so I can have the Star Trek or Star Wars ship-sets/music.

Maybe, but have to wait and see what this one have to offer, infact its modable. It mention if 3D was too much able to switch to 2D platform. DW look silly, esp in space battles. Im huge fan of ST and B5 and cant wait til this is ready for it.

(in reply to Chet Guiles)

Post #: 3

RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 8:10:46 AM

lordxorn

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I also agree with Chet as far as DW being worth the 39.95 and is a refreshing new take on one of my favorite genres on the PC, being the 4x MOO pedigree. I too am a huge MOO and MOO2 fan and have wasted so much of my life (Others would say :P) playing them. Since then no game has come close to the fun that I had when I first loaded those up.

Now it is funny that you mention SEV in the same breath as MOO, which is a slap in the face. SEV was a horrible follow up to a decent SEIV. I have always found the SE series to be soulless and probably would have made a great MP game. I just couldn't find anyone who played it.

While DW is not too similar to MOO, it is similar in the fact that the game has Soul or character much like the Moo series. It also took the right approach in respect to how the economy is ran. With the latest patch 1.06 the AI has gotten a great boost.

You mention Star Ruler as a good price and I agree, especially being less than 20$ for pre-order(Which I did), and I have not yet made it into the beta. So I am not speaking from experience, but the polish does not look to be as good as DW. Only time will tell, and the devs are committed to that game as well.

I am not here to argue the merits of either game because for us 4x strategy gamers these new releases are a good step forward and I have supported all small devs of most recent games like Armada, DW, Star Ruler, Flotilla, Gratuitous Space Battles.

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RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 11:14:10 AM

Igard

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Looks very promising, I'll keep my eye on this one.

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RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 1:26:23 PM

Gertjan

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I will do the same.

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Post #: 6

RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 2:39:14 PM

Rising-Sun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

I also agree with Chet as far as DW being worth the 39.95 and is a refreshing new take on one of my favorite genres on the PC, being the 4x MOO pedigree. I too am a huge MOO and MOO2 fan and have wasted so much of my life (Others would say :P) playing them. Since then no game has come close to the fun that I had when I first loaded those up.

Now it is funny that you mention SEV in the same breath as MOO, which is a slap in the face. SEV was a horrible follow up to a decent SEIV. I have always found the SE series to be soulless and probably would have made a great MP game. I just couldn't find anyone who played it.

While DW is not too similar to MOO, it is similar in the fact that the game has Soul or character much like the Moo series. It also took the right approach in respect to how the economy is ran. With the latest patch 1.06 the AI has gotten a great boost.

You mention Star Ruler as a good price and I agree, especially being less than 20$ for pre-order(Which I did), and I have not yet made it into the beta. So I am not speaking from experience, but the polish does not look to be as good as DW. Only time will tell, and the devs are committed to that game as well.

I am not here to argue the merits of either game because for us 4x strategy gamers these new releases are a good step forward and I have supported all small devs of most recent games like Armada, DW, Star Ruler, Flotilla, Gratuitous Space Battles.

I agreed with you on SEV, doesnt have good graphics, but that wasnt the problems. It did have some bugs they never cleaned up. Lost Empire:Immortal was ok, but need alot of adjustment, esp minor races are totally unbalance. GalCivII gotten me so boring. Im still searching for good Space Strategy Game and wondering if they ever make MoO IV? Birth of the Federation wasnt so bad either, just needed to upgrade to next level. Star Wars rebellion was pretty good too, but that was pretty old.

(in reply to lordxorn)

Post #: 7

RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 3:19:07 PM

Baleur

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looks interesting indeed, and i agree about DW not being worth 50 bucks, but i disagree strongly about the main reason being that its 2d..
Some of my favorite games are 2d lol. I'd rather have nice well done 2d than ****ty indie-developer 3d. But sure, i'd rather have nice 3d than nice 2d.
But DW works well in 2d and looks good (could look GREAT if the .png's were more well made, but that has nothing to do with being restricted to 2d, in 2d every pixel can be hand-crafted to perfection without any fps difference)

Example of 2d done right (even though the gameplay was lacking lol)
http://www.vertex4.com/sunage/media

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Post #: 8

RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 3:31:28 PM

Rising-Sun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baleur

looks interesting indeed, and i agree about DW not being worth 50 bucks, but i disagree strongly about the main reason being that its 2d..
Some of my favorite games are 2d lol. I'd rather have nice well done 2d than ****ty indie-developer 3d. But sure, i'd rather have nice 3d than nice 2d.
But DW works well in 2d and looks good (could look GREAT if the .png's were more well made, but that has nothing to do with being restricted to 2d, in 2d every pixel can be hand-crafted to perfection without any fps difference)

Example of 2d done right (even though the gameplay was lacking lol)
http://www.vertex4.com/sunage/media

Yeah much easier to work on those graphic files, for 3D models take extra time and patient. As long you have the software and skills to use it. Let see what this new game got to offer.

(in reply to Baleur)

Post #: 9

RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 5:16:34 PM

Tophat1815

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baleur

looks interesting indeed, and i agree about DW not being worth 50 bucks, but i disagree strongly about the main reason being that its 2d..
Some of my favorite games are 2d lol. I'd rather have nice well done 2d than ****ty indie-developer 3d. But sure, i'd rather have nice 3d than nice 2d.
But DW works well in 2d and looks good (could look GREAT if the .png's were more well made, but that has nothing to do with being restricted to 2d, in 2d every pixel can be hand-crafted to perfection without any fps difference)

Example of 2d done right (even though the gameplay was lacking lol)
http://www.vertex4.com/sunage/media

For digital download it is $39.99 so $40.......if you want the physical shipment it is $49.99 so $50.

So other than it is 2d why do either of you think it is not worth the $.....???? Some reasons would be helpful? or is it just the graphics?

(in reply to Baleur)

Post #: 10

RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 5:37:30 PM

dpazuk

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IMHO, the pricing for DW is consistent with other Matrix releases.

Given the level of customer support given to all of their titles (at least that has been my experience) the cost is extremely reasonable. I am not even taking into consideration the game play, which for me trumps all other considerations. Eye candy, without game play is just that. This game has game play in spades.

It will be a sad day indeed if Matrix ever closes it's doors (may that day never come).

I much prefer to spend what little disposable income I have on independent game publishers and developers. I have yet to be disappointed, but of course, your mileage may very.

< Message edited by dpazuk -- 8/4/2010 5:39:51 PM >

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RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 5:43:37 PM

Texashawk

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And look at it this way...

Sure, this game could be priced at $10 or $20... but the demographic of customers that would buy this game already expect a price point of this for a quality, deep game. What does a $9.99 US game say to YOU if you didn't know much about the game or the gameplay?? To me it screams budget and poor quality, and unless it's a game that used to be more expensive and is a known quantity to me, I never buy games below $10 US because I truly believe you get what you pay for.

Also, look at the redirects to Digital River from this forum - almost 1500! That's a REALLY SUCCESSFUL game for Matrix's standards. Pricing this game where it is means both Matrix can support a game like this (think about this: if this game had sold 200 copies or something, do you think you'd see another type of game like DW from a traditionally wargame publisher like Matrix? Not for a while, if ever..) AND Eliott can actually make some quid for his work and keep this effort from 'fringe hobby' to 'legitimate put-food-on-the-table work', and that means expansions, patches, support... in short, a positive cycle is created that benefits all involved.

Just my $0.02 US.

Steve.

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RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 5:44:19 PM

Tophat1815

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dpazuk

IMHO, the pricing for DW is consistent with other Matrix releases.

Given the level of customer support given to all of their titles (at least that has been my experience) the cost is extremely reasonable. I am not even taking into consideration the game play, which for me trumps all other considerations. Eye candy, without game play is just that. This game has game play in spades.

It will be a sad day indeed if Matrix ever closes it's doors (may that day never come).

I much prefer to spend what little disposable income I have on an independent game publishers and developers. I have yet to be disappointed, but of course, your mileage may very.

Not at all,I personally love the game and my only nitpick is that instead of top down view I'd prefer an oblique view for ships and structures.

The ai and game-play which were good have consistently improved and now i'm curious to see what mod support will be added. Then i believe we may see some more tweaks before the expansion comes out....we shall see. i think this game is well worth the $50 myself.

(in reply to dpazuk)

Post #: 13

RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 6:06:19 PM

Rising-Sun

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Well i have wasted alot of money on games, funny most ppls dont read the packages and thinking look cool lol and realise it was pos. The best way it wait and see how others may like it by adding comments about it. But that doesnt mean you will like it, would be better if there are demo for it. Im not just aiming for the graphics, but they are attactive. I wanted more than space battles, planets managements as well. Im just too complex sometimes :)

(in reply to Tophat1815)

Post #: 14

RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 6:57:00 PM

rk0123msp@mindspring

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3D wouldn't add anything to a game like this nor to 4x games in general. 3D would be great for a first-person-shooter type spacegame (or any first person shooter game for that matter) but not a strategy game. In fact, it would be detrimental because it would bog down the sytem unnecessarily during run time without adding any value in return. The exact same thing can be said for graphics in general. AI is the number one factor for strategy-type games (and in fact "makes or breaks the strategy game" all by itself), whereas a strong graphics & weak AI would be more desirable in first-person shooter games (or any non-strategy game).

I'd rather have a game run smoothly & faster on my system with gif quality images (for example) rather than slow & clunkily with png quality images (for example). Graphics are just way overrated these days.

btw: I thought SEIV was the best 4x spacegame since MOO2, unfortunately SEV AI was very bad and it was a step backward regardless of graphics, which weren't even the slightest factor in my evaluation of that. The SE line offered a lot of stuff that MOO2 didn't that I liked a lot such as a truly massive research tree, small ship designs with carriers & components for the small ships of their own, satellites, mines (inculding their design) and minesweepers, which I thought was incredibly kool, and is still unique as far as 4x games go. I did not like the concept of "warp points" though which limited movement choice .. it's space after all, there should be no limitation on movement. Also, ship's engine speed is incredibly crucial in that game and gives the player a tremendous advantage if he knows how to use it well (decreasing the value of the AI further).

< Message edited by rk0123msp@mindspring -- 8/4/2010 7:10:44 PM >

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RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 7:34:27 PM

WoodMan

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Depends what type of game I'm playing as to whether I think 3D is necessary or not. For some reason, when graphics are 3D they have to be good to impress me, bad 3D graphics are worse than 2D from my point of view. However, if a game is 2D I've already decided beforehand that cutting edge graphics aren't important (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it).

A good example of where 3D messed things up - Neverwinter Nights was god awful with its boring 3D repetative terrain, the Baldurs Gate games (to which Neverwinter Nights was a follow up) were fantastic with their 2D handrawn environments.

On the other hand, games where 3D is great are games like Crysis and Call of Duty etc, they look fantastic, and they need to to keep me impressed.

(in reply to rk0123msp@mindspring)

Post #: 16

RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 7:37:58 PM

rk0123msp@mindspring

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Well i have wasted alot of money on games, funny most ppls dont read the packages and thinking look cool lol and realise it was pos. The best way it wait and see how others may like it by adding comments about it. But that doesnt mean you will like it, would be better if there are demo for it. Im not just aiming for the graphics, but they are attactive. I wanted more than space battles, planets managements as well. Im just too complex sometimes :)

I definitely agree on this. The Moo3 debacle caused a complete paradigm shift in me as far as my approach to purchasing games. I actually preordered two of them, and the game was the worst letdown I've ever had in my life as far as a game purchase. MOO2->MOO3, from the best 4x game ever made to the worst. Now, I only buy new games after they come out & I can see the reviews. Games I buy that do not fit the above will only be "used" games or games from the "discount bin" that I can get cheap (like a few dollars).

So far, I like what I've seen as far as DW goes, and I'd say it's at least as good as SEIV which I thought a very good game, but I'll hold off my final evaluation until I see how easy/hard the game is to beat on the hardest difficulty setting, which is the true evaluation of the AIs capability (and hence my evaluatio of DW in toto). As far as I'm concerned, the graphics are great. I have a very liberal tolerance of graphics since it's not important to me. Stars! was a great 4x game, and I would'nt hesitate to buy the expansion in a minute (subject to my above evaluation) even though many people thought the graphics stunk. Graphics simply don't mean much to me.

btw: A couple of non-space 4x games that are out (or coming out) which are good are Dominions (spell research instead of sci-fi research) but it's otherwise a good 4x game, and I'm keeping my eye on the "elemental war of magic" which is coming out at the end of august, which looks like another good fantasy-setting 4x game from the previews so far. Dominions is worth buying if you like 4x strategy games; it's set in a fantasy world instead of space, but it's otherwise in the same game genre or type.

< Message edited by rk0123msp@mindspring -- 8/4/2010 7:53:04 PM >

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Post #: 17

RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 7:51:01 PM

rk0123msp@mindspring

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Depends what type of game I'm playing as to whether I think 3D is necessary or not.� For some reason, when graphics are 3D they have to be good to impress me, bad 3D graphics are worse than 2D from my point of view.� However, if a game is 2D I've already decided beforehand that cutting edge graphics aren't important (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it).

A good example of where 3D messed things up - Neverwinter Nights was god awful with its boring 3D repetative terrain, the Baldurs Gate games (to which Neverwinter Nights was a follow up) were fantastic with their 2D handrawn environments.

On the other hand, games where 3D is great are games like Crysis and Call of Duty etc, they look fantastic, and they need to to keep me impressed.

I guess I can see where you're coming from. I've always been a strategy game player and not much into first person shooters. I think I've only played a couple of these in my life, maybe the D&D gold box games were the last first person shooter I've played. Strategy games usually don't involve as much 3d as other games (relatively speaking).

I've never been much of a FPS fan. Number 1 for me has been strategy games, number 2 are railroad games & other. Sid Meier's RRs is a very good game and I've logged a good bit of time with it. Even this game has 3D mountains, but I really don's see it as necessary (just more visual), and though the train graphics are cool and I like the train sounds, I like the strategy elements of the game much more. Unlike 4x games which are based on expansion (one of the X's), train games are typically based more on efficiency (more track = more cost = more time to delivery & getting your payoff, so usually less track is better). Typically, the heart of RR games is about efficiency: get the crude oil to the refineries and pick up the fuel and it get it to the city with the least "costs" as possible (least track over flattest terrain with cheapest but fastes engine). The most expensive train engines are usually faster but they also cost more. Anyway, RR games have a great dimension of strategy that's typically not found in 4x; that's why I like them.

< Message edited by rk0123msp@mindspring -- 8/4/2010 7:55:15 PM >

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Post #: 18

RE: Interesting Game - 8/4/2010 9:58:08 PM

Rising-Sun

Posts: 2082
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From: Clifton Park, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rk0123msp@mindspring

quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Well i have wasted alot of money on games, funny most ppls dont read the packages and thinking look cool lol and realise it was pos. The best way it wait and see how others may like it by adding comments about it. But that doesnt mean you will like it, would be better if there are demo for it. Im not just aiming for the graphics, but they are attactive. I wanted more than space battles, planets managements as well. Im just too complex sometimes :)

I definitely agree on this. The Moo3 debacle caused a complete paradigm shift in me as far as my approach to purchasing games. I actually preordered two of them, and the game was the worst letdown I've ever had in my life as far as a game purchase. MOO2->MOO3, from the best 4x game ever made to the worst. Now, I only buy new games after they come out & I can see the reviews. Games I buy that do not fit the above will only be "used" games or games from the "discount bin" that I can get cheap (like a few dollars).

So far, I like what I've seen as far as DW goes, and I'd say it's at least as good as SEIV which I thought a very good game, but I'll hold off my final evaluation until I see how easy/hard the game is to beat on the hardest difficulty setting, which is the true evaluation of the AIs capability (and hence my evaluatio of DW in toto). As far as I'm concerned, the graphics are great. I have a very liberal tolerance of graphics since it's not important to me. Stars! was a great 4x game, and I would'nt hesitate to buy the expansion in a minute (subject to my above evaluation) even though many people thought the graphics stunk. Graphics simply don't mean much to me.

btw: A couple of non-space 4x games that are out (or coming out) which are good are Dominions (spell research instead of sci-fi research) but it's otherwise a good 4x game, and I'm keeping my eye on the "elemental war of magic" which is coming out at the end of august, which looks like another good fantasy-setting 4x game from the previews so far. Dominions is worth buying if you like 4x strategy games; it's set in a fantasy world instead of space, but it's otherwise in the same game genre or type.

Oh you just read my mind, been waiting for that EwoM too, i missed the old Master of Magic and Lords of Magics. So many games popping up everywhere and so little time :(

(in reply to rk0123msp@mindspring)

Post #: 19

RE: Interesting Game - 8/5/2010 11:04:37 AM

Wenla

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Let's take for example EU III: I don't think that just anyone could say that it's graphics is 'beautiful', but what a grand strategy game!

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Post #: 20

RE: Interesting Game - 8/5/2010 11:33:14 AM

Baleur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

quote:

ORIGINAL: Baleur

looks interesting indeed, and i agree about DW not being worth 50 bucks, but i disagree strongly about the main reason being that its 2d..
Some of my favorite games are 2d lol. I'd rather have nice well done 2d than ****ty indie-developer 3d. But sure, i'd rather have nice 3d than nice 2d.
But DW works well in 2d and looks good (could look GREAT if the .png's were more well made, but that has nothing to do with being restricted to 2d, in 2d every pixel can be hand-crafted to perfection without any fps difference)

Example of 2d done right (even though the gameplay was lacking lol)
http://www.vertex4.com/sunage/media

For digital download it is $39.99 so $40.......if you want the physical shipment it is $49.99 so $50.

So other than it is 2d why do either of you think it is not worth the $.....???? Some reasons would be helpful? or is it just the graphics?

Never said it was because the graphics, but rather because imo the gameplay is still lacking. The sub-surface calculations may be complex, but in essence it's still a fancy version of Risk. Maybe i expect too much, but when it costs the same as a AAA title, shouldnt i?
I still enjoy it, to say that i find its priced too high doesnt mean i dont enjoy it or wish it to keep being upgraded :)

(in reply to Tophat1815)

Post #: 21

RE: Interesting Game - 8/5/2010 11:38:02 AM

Baleur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rk0123msp@mindspring

I'd rather have a game run smoothly & faster on my system with gif quality images (for example) rather than slow & clunkily with png quality images (for example). Graphics are just way overrated these days.

Well frankly, Distant Worlds could use .jpg images saved at 80% compression, and nobody no matter how sharp their eyes were would be able to tell the difference between that and a lossless .png image that's 10 times larger and takes much longer to load / unload from your RAM. Why 2d games in general never do this is a mystery to me.
Heck, even .dds would load faster and run better than .png's, especially with the built-in mipmaps.

(in reply to rk0123msp@mindspring)

Post #: 22

RE: Interesting Game - 8/5/2010 12:00:00 PM

Equendil

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GIF, PNG, JPG, it doesn't really matter, they're just for *disk* storage. Graphic cards only handle "raw" graphics or specific compression schemes for fast decompression and random access. Compression schemes that fully optimize storage space are not practical for anything other than storage.

Edit: If loading speed from disk was an issue, the very first thing to improve it would be to put all files in big "packs", accessing lots of small files is inefficient.

< Message edited by Equendil -- 8/5/2010 12:04:18 PM >

(in reply to Baleur)

Post #: 23

RE: Interesting Game - 8/5/2010 12:53:23 PM

WoodMan

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quote:

Never said it was because the graphics, but rather because imo the gameplay is still lacking. The sub-surface calculations may be complex, but in essence it's still a fancy version of Risk. Maybe i expect too much, but when it costs the same as a AAA title, shouldnt i?
I still enjoy it, to say that i find its priced too high doesnt mean i dont enjoy it or wish it to keep being upgraded :)

Hmm, I got DW for �30.00 in the UK, this is cheap for a new game these days. Most new releases of AAA titles are now �32.99, or recently �39.99. When I first bought DW I thought honestly it was overpriced, but after a couple of hours of playing the game I changed my mind. Here is an example of what I mean: Empire Total War AAA title = less enjoyment than DW and less than 10 hours played before bored(okay it had game breaking bugs is the main reason), Spore AAA title = less enjoyment than DW and less than 10 hours played before bored, Starcraft II AAA title = okay I actually like this one, but not being able to play offline is dumb

. So I think Spore and Empire Total War were not worth the money, but Distant Worlds was. There is no difference between DW and AAA titles other than the budget/graphics etc

(in reply to Equendil)

Post #: 24

RE: Interesting Game - 8/5/2010 1:51:31 PM

Bartje

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I think that DW easily matches most premium games in gameplay terms. Heck I'd say it even surpasses many of them.
Sure it doesn't have 3d but the graphics really aren't that bad, they fit with the gameplay.

To be honest I think that paying 50.0 for DW is a lot more reasonable then paying 50.0 for many other supposed AAA titles. (AAA is somewhat of an inflated rating these days)
Ofcourse this does come down to taste. (I do consider games overpriced though that is another discussion)

As for StarRuler, It is a very promising game but I derive from various public statements that it won't be released with as much polish as the developers originally intended (DW had its issues too on release by the way). I have a lot of confidence that like Elliot & Erik they (SR devs) will continue to support the game however and that it will become a glorious addition to the genre as well. Just like DW is in my opinion.

< Message edited by Bartje -- 8/5/2010 1:59:37 PM >

(in reply to WoodMan)

Post #: 25

RE: Interesting Game - 8/5/2010 6:44:15 PM

Gertjan

Posts: 698
Joined: 12/9/2009
Status: offline

I see it a bit differently. I think it is amazing what Elliot/Matrix have done considering their capacity/resources. From Activision/Blizzard you can expect that they deliver a superb game considering that they must get crazy revenues 1,5 m (probably already more now) times 50-60 dollars (what is the exact price) gives you really a lot money to make a good game with.

(in reply to Bartje)

Post #: 26