Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

In-game, there’s III, V, VII Amphib “Force” as well as I, V Amphib “Corps”. It’s looking more reasonable to have the Phib “Force” HQs be amphibious (type = 31), while having the Phib “Corps” be be nominal (type = 01).

quote:

ORIGINAL: medicff

IIRC didn't one of the middle patches make assignment to HQ "required" for ground units (or was it air units) to receive their bonuses?  My memory not so good anymore.  LOL

quote:

ORIGINAL: medicff
Thanks for the Amphib corps /Amphib force clarification

IIRC didn't one of the middle patches make assignment to HQ "required" for ground units (or was it air units) to receive their bonuses?  My memory not so good anymore.  LOL

Another question re HQ assignment.

I like the Ceylon and Hawaiian HQ assignments.  Keeps players from borrowing these units.  The 2 regiments in SF set to fill the divisions in PH.  Initial game start regiment (forget number) is "pacific fleet" Hq to allow immed movement I think.  The second one "161" comes in as Hawaiian and must be changed to move to PH early game.  Is this intended to make players decide on PP's to reinf PH early or not?

Pat

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: medicff
Thanks for the Amphib corps /Amphib force clarification

IIRC didn't one of the middle patches make assignment to HQ "required" for ground units (or was it air units) to receive their bonuses?  My memory not so good anymore.  LOL

Another question re HQ assignment.

I like the Ceylon and Hawaiian HQ assignments.  Keeps players from borrowing these units.  The 2 regiments in SF set to fill the divisions in PH.  Initial game start regiment (forget number) is "pacific fleet" Hq to allow immed movement I think.  The second one "161" comes in as Hawaiian and must be changed to move to PH early game.  Is this intended to make players decide on PP's to reinf PH early or not?

Pat

It's just like it is in stock.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Going back into the deep, dark recesses of my mind (some light please! ), I remember the explanation that they were intended to operate in pairs. The 'Force' had the job of adding leadership to the landing, while the 'Corps' had the job of adding leadership to the ground fight. And I do mean in-game not IRL.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Yes. I meant that HQs work like stock - no assignment necessary for bonus, just be within command radius. Sorry for the confusion.

Hawaiian dept is in all scenarios, stock and Babes - restricted permanent. 24th and 25th Inf Divs (broken down to Regts) are assigned to unrestricted PacFlt. Each has 2 Regts in Hawaii assigned to Hawaiian Dept. Needs PPs to buy them out. 34th IR arrives SFO assigned to unrestricted PacFlt. So far exactly like stock. Only difference is 161st IR arrives SFO assigned to Hawaiian Dept so needs to be bought out as well. All the Regts need to be bought out in any case to reconstitute the 2 divisions. All that changed is one must buy 5 regts instead of 4.

Technically, perhaps, the 34th IR would be a better choice for initial data assignment to Hawaiian Dept, but 161st IR was also assigned (reassigned from 41st ID) to Hawaiian Dept and wasn't actually made part of 25 ID till summer '42. Six of one, half dozen of t'other.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE
Yes. I meant that HQs work like stock - no assignment necessary for bonus, just be within command radius. Sorry for the confusion.

Hawaiian dept is in all scenarios, stock and Babes - restricted permanent. 24th and 25th Inf Divs (broken down to Regts) are assigned to unrestricted PacFlt. Each has 2 Regts in Hawaii assigned to Hawaiian Dept. Needs PPs to buy them out. 34th IR arrives SFO assigned to unrestricted PacFlt. So far exactly like stock. Only difference is 161st IR arrives SFO assigned to Hawaiian Dept so needs to be bought out as well. All the Regts need to be bought out in any case to reconstitute the 2 divisions. All that changed is one must buy 5 regts instead of 4.

Technically, perhaps, the 34th IR would be a better choice for initial data assignment to Hawaiian Dept, but 161st IR was also assigned (reassigned from 41st ID) to Hawaiian Dept and wasn't actually made part of 25 ID till summer '42. Six of one, half dozen of t'other.

The part in bold I don't really get - why have a unit arriving at San Francisco but assigned to Hawaiian Dept? That means it's stuck in SF until bought out, but HD assignment implies tasking it to protect Hawaii. Just curious about the reasoning.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Not a lot of reasoning. Just wanted to limit the scale of units available in early war. Must admit, we missed the implication of having to buy out before it could move to HI. perhaps better to have it appear at PH 411221 but still assigned to HC?

[edit] thinkin on it, there was a rats nest of HI National Guard unit evolution going on at the time. Perhaps reasonable to let both 34th and 161st IR appear at PH, but have both assigned to HC. that would acceptably limit the troops available for whacko stuff and also model the in-and-out existence of 298th and 299th HING regts?

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Does seem reasonable.

In my Scen 1 PBM (mid-43) what I am noticing is that a lot of USMC units - especially air - are arrive with restricted commands when maybe they shouldn't. Something to look at if you put additional PP demands on earlier units.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Not a lot of reasoning. Just wanted to limit the scale of units available in early war. Must admit, we missed the implication of having to buy out before it could move to HI. perhaps better to have it appear at PH 411221 but still assigned to HC?

[edit] thinkin on it, there was a rats nest of HI National Guard unit evolution going on at the time. Perhaps reasonable to let both 34th and 161st IR appear at PH, but have both assigned to HC. that would acceptably limit the troops available for whacko stuff and also model the in-and-out existence of 298th and 299th HING regts?

quote:

ORIGINAL: medicff

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Not a lot of reasoning. Just wanted to limit the scale of units available in early war. Must admit, we missed the implication of having to buy out before it could move to HI. perhaps better to have it appear at PH 411221 but still assigned to HC?

[edit] thinkin on it, there was a rats nest of HI National Guard unit evolution going on at the time. Perhaps reasonable to let both 34th and 161st IR appear at PH, but have both assigned to HC. that would acceptably limit the troops available for whacko stuff and also model the in-and-out existence of 298th and 299th HING regts?

That sounds like a good solution.

Another change from stock is the Americal division components. In stock the 132 and 182 are assigned Pacific Fleet and can move immediately, the 164 is West Coast and must be bought.

In DaBabes all 3 are west Coast and must be bought - 25 turns worth of PP's for the extra two.

I only bring this up because it is a major early drain on PP's and bringing troops out of USA. And while your thinking on this

Pat

quote:

"The AMERICAL Division had its origin in Task Force 6814 formed on 14 January, 1942 with the mission of occupying and defending New Caledonia. It departed New York on 23 Jan 42. The force landed in Australia 26 Feb 42 and was sent to New Caledonia 6 Mar 42, arriving there 12 Mar 42 and establishing Headquarters at Noumea. There the task force organized the defenses and built installations on New Caledonia and New Hebrides. The AMERICAL Division was organized from Task Force 6814 which was disbanded on 27 May 42; its name was a contraction of the words "American" and "New Caledonia".

quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89
Sorry about the rant but this one just bugs me

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89
Sorry about the rant but this one just bugs me

Hey, no worries. Don Bowen has the entire composition of TF 6814 that arrived Melbourne 26 Feb. Providing lift is an issue since there's lots of different units, and the ships will all have to be withdrawn soon after (pita), so perhaps best to have units arrive in Melbourne on 26 Feb.

Brother Shelby Stanton says - 164th IR was assigned to 4th Army, moved to Ft Ord 17 Dec, '41, transferred to GHQ 30 Jan, '42, depart SFO for OZ 19 Mar, '42, moved to New Cal 19 Apr, '42, assigned to Americal 24 May, '42. So believe it reasonable to have 164th arrive Ft Ord 411217 assigned to WC (and make the other 2 free). All that's needed then is some PP to buy it out and some lift from SFO to OZ (should be enough at SFO).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
Are you saying the 164th has to hitch hike from SFO but the others get the benefit of transporting down to Melbourne (beam me down Scottie)? I don't care much for "wormhole" travel in the game, but that's just me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: medicff
Don't know if this is DaBigBabes issue or AE in general. Latest patch and bigbabes.

Leaders are rated a little high - give me more
Pat

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
Are you saying the 164th has to hitch hike from SFO but the others get the benefit of transporting down to Melbourne (beam me down Scottie)? I don't care much for "wormhole" travel in the game, but that's just me.

I’m not a wormhole fan myself, but there are very few alternative options. In a scenario of this scale, we wanted to hew very closely to those decisions made, and deployments ordered, in the time frame immediately following PH. As time progresses, options open.

TF 6814 had a bunch more stuff than just the Americal components. The lift used to move them to OZ, through the Canal, was immediately returned to Caribbean and Atlantic station. None of the ships were under PacFlt command. So what to do? Put could put the units at ECUSA or Balboa with a delayed entry TF comprising the lift with a Melbourne destination, but that TF must be withdrawn immediately after delivering the units. Or we could avoid the clickfest and just have the movement be considered in the abstract and have the units show up where they did, when they did.

The case for the 164th is it was at Ft Ord, it was at SFO, and its assignments were historical. Everyone understands that a full div has a better combat shot than 3 constituent regts, so the intent is get people to reconstitute the div. Other intent is to give the smaller scen designers (and highly players) the opportunity to use the 164th as an early reinforcement for the Canal, with the rest of the div schlepping in later and reconstituting in situ.

Don’t forget, this is just the first 30-60 days of activity, where the historical record is clear. As the smoke blows away, ‘other’ stuff may happen. Scenario design is a very interesting exercise. There are no real answers, just probabilities. Probabilities are very high, very early on, but very soon turn into vapor. Hope this helps you understand where we are coming from and the implications we have to deal with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
I do have one problem I hope you can help me with. Any chance of getting you to clue me in (eh ahead of the release of an update), as to what DaBabe's units you will wormhole to Melbourne. I have the ship's consist, but I need to know what will be left after you take out all the miscellaneous units not included in the game.

Buck

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Different people did different things with warship weapons. Most went for irl launcher numbers, but were either light or heavy on ammo to give “some” ships their irl DC load out, and “some” ships their ‘effective DC loadout. However, both the ‘launcher’ and ‘ammo’ numbers are inconsistent among Nationalities, and don’t quite play in accord with the rules/desires of the combat algorithm.

So Japanese ships typically have a gazillion launchers (as irl) and a gazillion ammo for certain launchers (as irl) that totals out to the irl DCs carried. Allied ships typically have fewer launchers, and much smaller ammo than irl. So an Ukuru escort can DC from 9 launchers with ammo 15, while a Bristol can DC from 6 launchers with ammo 4 and Buckley can shoot from 10 launchers with ammo 4. So that’s kinda, roughly 135 vs 24 or 40.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
I have almost completed adding the ships in TF 6814. A couple are already in the game and only need to be tweaked as to arrival date and configuration. Buck

quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE
Different people did different things with warship weapons. Most went for irl launcher numbers, but were either light or heavy on ammo to give “some” ships their irl DC load out, and “some” ships their ‘effective DC loadout. However, both the ‘launcher’ and ‘ammo’ numbers are inconsistent among Nationalities, and don’t quite play in accord with the rules/desires of the combat algorithm.

So Japanese ships typically have a gazillion launchers (as irl) and a gazillion ammo for certain launchers (as irl) that totals out to the irl DCs carried. Allied ships typically have fewer launchers, and much smaller ammo than irl. So an Ukuru escort can DC from 9 launchers with ammo 15, while a Bristol can DC from 6 launchers with ammo 4 and Buckley can shoot from 10 launchers with ammo 4. So that’s kinda, roughly 135 vs 24 or 40.

John. Given the relative quality of the electronics suites, isn't this like comparing the accuracy of 15 guys with shotguns to 4 with sniper rifles? The 15 fire a large weight of shot, but the four with the scopes are going to hit much more often. Rating ASW by number of depth charges without weighting it for accuracy of delivery has always seemed wrong to me. Certainly the results achieved during the war seem to indicate that the Japanese were way behind the Allies in this regard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
I have almost completed adding the ships in TF 6814. A couple are already in the game and only need to be tweaked as to arrival date and configuration. Buck

Just a couple quickies, Buck. Don't forget that a lot of the passenger xAPs are abstractions, as well. Perhaps 30 or more popped in and out at various times and for various periods. We just picked a handful, arbitrarily named them, and let them stay for the duration (avoiding the whining and clickfesting of withdrawal requirements). Fx, Santa Elena was mostly in the Atlantic and was sunk at the end of '43 in the Med, but I'm a Grace Lines fan so .... won't hurt my feelings a bit if you want to arbitrarily rename, in turn. [;) I have a couple sticking around to August/September. Buck

Other thing is ship types. Just some suggestions (which you probably already have): Barry and Santa Elena are both cool (and can stay, the rest should withdraw); Cristobal and Santa Rosa should be class 2460 (Grace Lines); Ericsson and Argentina should be class 2459 (Matson); McAndrew is a pita - it was a USAT on a C3 P&C. The only C3 P&C classes are navalized APs (Crescent City and Pres. Jackson). Best class model for McAndrew is 2730 (USAT C2) - it's an xAP with about the right amount of troop and cargo space.

Ciao. J

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE
Trade ya. You can list the ships. TF 6814 (TF Poppy) units are:
132nd and 182nd IRs
754th Lt Tank Bn
810th and 811th Aviation Eng Bns
70th Cst Arty (AA) Regt

Men and guns from 72nd and 180th FARs went to Americal eventually, so they are included in the IRs. 134th Eng Regt assets formed 57th Cmbt Eng Bn, which became the Americal CEB, so it's devices are included in the IRs.