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Missing Resource ? - 6/23/2010 2:59:47 AM   
Spacecadet

 

Posts: 1780
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Has anyone had a game before where you're missing a fairly rare resource?

In my case, there's no Yaras Marble in the Galaxy.

Not sure if this is a bug or if it just happens on occasion.


Post #: 1
RE: Missing Resource ? - 6/23/2010 4:01:54 AM   
tornnight

 

Posts: 170
Joined: 6/13/2010
Status: offline 		How did you verify that?

(in reply to Spacecadet)
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RE: Missing Resource ? - 6/23/2010 12:51:52 PM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		In my current game Yaras Marble is the only resource I haven't found too apart from the super resources.  However, there is a Galaxy stock of 4.0k so somebody must have found it.

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Post #: 3
RE: Missing Resource ? - 6/23/2010 2:40:16 PM   
Spacecadet

 

Posts: 1780
Joined: 4/18/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tornnight

How did you verify that?


Well, I'm in about year Fifty, and my Explorers completed exploration about Thirty plus years back.
I've traded for every other Empire's Galaxy maps as well.
I've also been clicking on a bunch of Stars to see what resources they have just in case.

Galaxy stock is 0, and Galaxy demand is 0.

Everything else has been found except Yaras Marble.


(in reply to tornnight)
Post #: 4
RE: Missing Resource ? - 6/23/2010 9:17:06 PM   
BoogieMan

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/4/2010
Status: offline 		That's interesting, a glitch in the map generator I guess.

In some games I have that resource on my homeworld.

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Post #: 5
RE: Missing Resource ? - 6/23/2010 11:05:34 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tornnight

How did you verify that?

Easiest way to verify the location of resources after you have explored the whole galaxy is to open the Galaxy Map, select 'Known Resources' from the drop-down, then just select each resource in turn to see the yellow dots on the map. When you come across a resource that doesn't have yellow dots you have found a resource that doesn't exist.

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Post #: 6
RE: Missing Resource ? - 6/23/2010 11:28:44 PM   
Spacecadet

 

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Joined: 4/18/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Das123


quote:

ORIGINAL: tornnight

How did you verify that?

Easiest way to verify the location of resources after you have explored the whole galaxy is to open the Galaxy Map, select 'Known Resources' from the drop-down, then just select each resource in turn to see the yellow dots on the map. When you come across a resource that doesn't have yellow dots you have found a resource that doesn't exist.


I missed adding one . . . I have already done this as well.

About the only thing I haven't done yet is to open the Editor, but I'm not sure if that'll tell me anything new or not.




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Post #: 7
RE: Missing Resource ? - 6/24/2010 5:16:25 PM   
cmdrnarrain

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 4/21/2010
Status: offline 		I have seen this too several time.  Once even Lorros Fruit wasn't present or at least I and the AI couldn't find it.

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Post #: 8
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/12/2010 6:10:30 PM   
Spacecadet

 

Posts: 1780
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Rather than start a new thread . . . .


Second game in a row, only now on 1.0.6.

No Yaras Marble stocks in the Galaxy.
Double whammy - no Loros Fruit either.

I'm in about year 50 - 60, the Galaxy's long been fully explored . . . nada 





(in reply to cmdrnarrain)
Post #: 9
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/12/2010 11:17:09 PM   
Roller

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 5/15/2010
Status: offline 		Same here I think. Yarras Marble supply non existent.

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Post #: 10
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/13/2010 1:35:17 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		What size galaxies are we talking here?

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Post #: 11
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/13/2010 3:13:47 AM   
Spacecadet

 

Posts: 1780
Joined: 4/18/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

What size galaxies are we talking here?


Erik,

My current game is 400 Systems, my last one was 250.

Maybe I've just got really bad luck.


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Post #: 12
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/13/2010 4:19:32 AM   
Roller

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 5/15/2010
Status: offline 		1000 and 1400.

(in reply to Spacecadet)
Post #: 13
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/13/2010 6:34:18 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline 		Never had Yarras Marble in any of my games ... still I only play with the minimal star setting 

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Post #: 14
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/13/2010 2:29:57 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Never had Yarras Marble in any of my games ... still I only play with the minimal star setting 



It is a bit odd the way resources are distributed. I've had games where no one had the Yarras Marble, yet in my current game there are 2 sources of it in my starting system. It's probably just a random weighted set up, but there probably needs to be something to ensure at least 1 of every type is available some where on the map.

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Post #: 15
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/13/2010 6:00:49 PM   
Spacecadet

 

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Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Never had Yarras Marble in any of my games ... still I only play with the minimal star setting 


I've always had all the resources before, and that was playing 100 System games.

These last games (250 & 400) were my first encounter with the issue.


(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 16
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/15/2010 12:31:01 AM   
torrenal

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 7/12/2010
Status: offline 		From my own observations:  Sometimes 'very rare' resources do appear to cluster in tight groups, such as multiple sources in a single system, and 4+ systems in tight proximity carrying the resource.

I am however inclined to put that down as chance:  If my counting is correct, there are 43 resources in the game.
They have varied rates of occurance.  In a random distribution, you can easily get groups of items together -- Assuming distributions are truely random: If you have a map with 365 systems (I'm converting an example from birthdates), any resource occurring in 23 locations will have a roughly 50% chance of having at least 2 locations share a system.  If you want to convert it from locations to sectors, you will see the same kind of 'uncommon' grouping...  The map splits out into 100 sectors.  It would be very unusual for an item occurring in 100 locations to have 1 location  in each sector.  It would be far easier to find 2, 3, or even 4 occurrences in one sector, than a case of 1 occurrence in each sector.
Take either example (the 365 star system or the 100 sector system) and carry that across 43 resources.... somewhere among those resources you may find yourself looking at one or more resources with an 'irregular' distribution.  To see otherwise would be as odd as finding all 43 resources occurring exactly once in each of the 100 sectors.

That said, there are two other factors to consider --
  • For construction of every component to be possible, you require 1 ea of every strategic resource.  To that end, the system might (this is pure speculation here, talk to the developer about what the game really does) pre-populate 1 location for each strategic resource, before populating the rest of the resources.  This same requirement does not exist for luxury resources, game-play is not hindered any if a luxury item or three are ommitted.  All you really need for a game is easy access to 10 different luxury sources.
  • You are not the only player who can find the Devastation/Desolation moon.  With this weapon in hand, a computer player may target specific planets for removal from the game.  Obvious targets may well include planets that carry valuable/rare resources.  (Think: "If I destroy his only source of material XYZ, that will hamper him more than if I destroy a random planet").

//Torrenal


< Message edited by torrenal -- 8/15/2010 12:34:08 AM >

(in reply to Spacecadet)
Post #: 17
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/15/2010 4:26:41 PM   
Spacecadet

 

Posts: 1780
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: torrenal

From my own observations:  Sometimes 'very rare' resources do appear to cluster in tight groups, such as multiple sources in a single system, and 4+ systems in tight proximity carrying the resource.

I am however inclined to put that down as chance:  If my counting is correct, there are 43 resources in the game.
They have varied rates of occurance.  In a random distribution, you can easily get groups of items together -- Assuming distributions are truely random: If you have a map with 365 systems (I'm converting an example from birthdates), any resource occurring in 23 locations will have a roughly 50% chance of having at least 2 locations share a system.  If you want to convert it from locations to sectors, you will see the same kind of 'uncommon' grouping...  The map splits out into 100 sectors.  It would be very unusual for an item occurring in 100 locations to have 1 location  in each sector.  It would be far easier to find 2, 3, or even 4 occurrences in one sector, than a case of 1 occurrence in each sector.
Take either example (the 365 star system or the 100 sector system) and carry that across 43 resources.... somewhere among those resources you may find yourself looking at one or more resources with an 'irregular' distribution.  To see otherwise would be as odd as finding all 43 resources occurring exactly once in each of the 100 sectors.

That said, there are two other factors to consider --
  • For construction of every component to be possible, you require 1 ea of every strategic resource.  To that end, the system might (this is pure speculation here, talk to the developer about what the game really does) pre-populate 1 location for each strategic resource, before populating the rest of the resources.  This same requirement does not exist for luxury resources, game-play is not hindered any if a luxury item or three are ommitted.  All you really need for a game is easy access to 10 different luxury sources.
  • You are not the only player who can find the Devastation/Desolation moon.  With this weapon in hand, a computer player may target specific planets for removal from the game.  Obvious targets may well include planets that carry valuable/rare resources.  (Think: "If I destroy his only source of material XYZ, that will hamper him more than if I destroy a random planet").

//Torrenal



Yeah, I've seen a little bit of "clustering" myself in a few games.
It's usually not too bad though even when it does.


You brought up a good point about the Planet Destroyer, it could remove resources from the game.
Problem is, I've had it in both of these last two games in which resources where missing.


Maybe on a related note at the other end of the spectrum, I've actually had a game or two where there have been multiple unique resources.

One I remember is having Zentabia fluid on two different planets in two different Systems.




(in reply to torrenal)
Post #: 18
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/16/2010 1:13:27 PM   
the1sean


Posts: 854
Joined: 5/11/2010
From: Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet
You brought up a good point about the Planet Destroyer, it could remove resources from the game.
Problem is, I've had it in both of these last two games in which resources where missing.


Wow, thats awesome, I have only gotten it once, and that time I stole it from someone else!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet
Maybe on a related note at the other end of the spectrum, I've actually had a game or two where there have been multiple unique resources.

One I remember is having Zentabia fluid on two different planets in two different Systems.


I have never seen that, have any other players seen 2 or more of a unique resource???

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Post #: 19
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/16/2010 2:00:09 PM   
sbach2o

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean

I have never seen that, have any other players seen 2 or more of a unique resource???


I am a very slow player, so only three of my games have ever progressed to a state where I had the entire galaxy explored (two in version 1.0.3 and one in 1.0.4.9). All those games were with 1000 stars.

All of these games had two planets with each of the super-rare resources (Zentabia Fluid, Loros Fruit and Korabbian Spice). I had assumed that the galaxy generator is expressly designed to create two planets with each of those resources, at least in a 1000 stars galaxy. That they can go missing entirely is news to me.

(in reply to the1sean)
Post #: 20
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/17/2010 5:52:09 AM   
shinobu


Posts: 214
Joined: 12/12/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet
Maybe on a related note at the other end of the spectrum, I've actually had a game or two where there have been multiple unique resources.

One I remember is having Zentabia fluid on two different planets in two different Systems.


the1sean asked: I have never seen that, have any other players seen 2 or more of a unique resource???


Yes- I've had a couple of games where there have been two of the unique resources. In one game, there were two planets with Z-Fluid AND two planets with Loros Fruit...


< Message edited by shinobu -- 8/17/2010 5:54:09 AM >

(in reply to the1sean)
Post #: 21
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/17/2010 6:25:32 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shinobu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet
Maybe on a related note at the other end of the spectrum, I've actually had a game or two where there have been multiple unique resources.

One I remember is having Zentabia fluid on two different planets in two different Systems.


the1sean asked: I have never seen that, have any other players seen 2 or more of a unique resource???


Yes- I've had a couple of games where there have been two of the unique resources. In one game, there were two planets with Z-Fluid AND two planets with Loros Fruit...



And no one ever wants to share it with me...so I go and take it away from them. Now if only they would make a star ship size can of RAID.

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Post #: 22
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/17/2010 9:44:16 AM   
Wenla


Posts: 83
Joined: 4/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean
I have never seen that, have any other players seen 2 or more of a unique resource???


Yes, I have.

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Post #: 23
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/18/2010 2:57:20 AM   
torrenal

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 7/12/2010
Status: offline 		Planet destroyers come in more than singles....
I picked up all 3 from my current map  (I have heard the formula as 1/500 stars, but I don't think I've seen anything official there...)

As for the 'Unique' resourses.  They are not unique.  They are listed as "extremely rare".
On my large maps, it's actually unusual to have only one of each.  (I don't think it's ever happened, to be honest), and on smaller maps I've even had one be missing completely.
The extremely rare resources might be distributed in a similar manner as the planet destroyers -- 1 for every n stars.
//Torrenal

(in reply to Wenla)
Post #: 24
RE: Missing Resource ? - 8/18/2010 2:17:38 PM   
the1sean


Posts: 854
Joined: 5/11/2010
From: Texas, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the replies, guys. I usually play 700 planet maps, and occasionally win before I have explored every single inch of every planet in the galaxy, so that would explain my very monotone distribution experiences. I guess the info points to around one of each "extremely rare" for 700 system maps, varying up or down from there. It would also suggest that Planet Destroyers have about the same frequency. Interesting.

Its too bad that you cant do some negotiating for those extremely rare resources. I always liked the unique trade goods mechanic in Galactic Civilizations 2, and the luxury resource and strategic resource mechanics in Civiliation 4. They really added a lot of depth to the games, tying the game map to diplomacy, and made conquests much more strategic. Hopefully we will see some expansion of this theme in the upcoming expansion, as well as more diplomatic options.

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Post #: 25
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