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New idea about allies - 8/13/2010 8:11:37 AM

kondor

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Joined: 5/27/2004
From: Croatia
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Something was buging me in a U2 game where we play 2vs2, but I had that notion before.
I play as GE and have control of Cairo/Suez. Naturally I did help IJ with supply... I even sent cca 13 subs III to destroy merchant ships in Calcuta/Jakarta/Singapoure and help Japan there...

But major difficulty is supplying them. I need to get way back closer to Cairo, Italian east Africa or so to supply them. It is preventing me to venture further to Japan or Australia.

In WWII Japs had supply damps for GE subs didn't they?

And let's say I want to welcome IJN to Med. sea. I had 10 000 supplys in Rome and his navy comes in, anchores and starves to death?

I think there is no reason (in RL at least) why can not allies supply eachothers fleets?
(maybe land forces to?). If is it not possible by game engine, maybe then is a was around it-Allies can give town of their chosing to eachother (without any change in VP)? Port in Port Moresby which is a production centar? Cairo? Tobruk? Amsterdam?

What impact would this have on this scenario besides lots of new tactics? Bare in mind that it is not easy to open this routes. It is not easy to capture Suez and Cairo, it is not easy to capture Panama/Gibraltar... and if it is done, why shouldn't we exploit that further!

Imagine IJN in Atlantic!

As things stands now-it can't be done-successfull atleast.

I guess it would be very hard to implement and there is some drawbacks to balance... But it would feel more...natural?

What is your oppinion on this?

Post #: 1

RE: New idea about allies - 8/13/2010 2:38:09 PM

explorer2

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I've never seen anything like this done in AT, but I do think it is possible, and yes, it could make things a little more interesting.

Historically, I don't recall reading anything about JA supplying GE U-Boats or GE supplying JA.
GE DID have U-Boat activity in the Indian ocean, and even sank some convoys going between India and Suez, and JA did have some sub activity right off the coast of Panama. BUt they did this not by using each other's supply (as far as I have read) but by using re-supply at sea. Sometimes this was done with supply ships of their own, sometimes with ships from a neutral country. GE in particular got supply for subs from Brazil, Portugal, and I think either Somalia or Tanganyika. Their subs operating in Indian Ocean went around the tip of Africa.

Game wise, people have been wanting mobile supply dumps for land that aren't an HQ, and ships that can supply other ships at sea pretty much since the beginning of AT, but I have never seen a solution to this myself.

Maybe somebody has brilliant ideas how to implement this?

(in reply to kondor)

Post #: 2

RE: New idea about allies - 8/13/2010 4:06:01 PM

GrumpyMel

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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Would be a nice idea, but unfortunately I don't think the engine supports it. Units can't draw supply from other regimes and only HQ's can provide supply. Units can't occupy territory belonging to other regiemes nor (I believe) can they even be in the same (ocean) hex with units of another regime.

In short, the engine doesn't have alot of options for direct cooperation among Allies. I think it's one of the big things people are hoping Vic might be able to beef up some in the next version. Not sure how tough that is though.

You might be able to fake something like this with event code. It'd be pretty kludgey but you could probably do it. I haven't looked at the commands to see if it is fully supported.... But I'm guessing what you could do (drawing this inspiration from something Grymme suggested to me when I was looking for a mechanism for the Murmansk convoys...so credit should go to him

) would be to create a specific type of non-combat SFT that costs the same as supply... call it something like "Allied Supply"...have event code that checks all the port hexes around a sea zone (could you do this with Area Slots?) for the presence of that SFT...remove it and increment a game or regieme variable by that same amount. Then your Ally would have an Action Card that said something like "Resupply from Ally"... you'd have some event code that it triggered which could check each naval unit in a sea zone (hoping Area Slots could be used for this) and add a set amount of supply to them...subtracting the same amount from the game/regime variable.

It'd be some very tricky scripting, but you could probably get it to work. It'd be a little kludgey though...as there wouldn't be any way for an enemy to do anti-supply on that and intercept it going to ships.

That's about the only way I could think of to handle it with the current engine. Not sure if it would be worth the effort...unless it was something that you really expected to be a major factor in the scenario.

You could also maybe kludge something like Supply Ships/Oilers with Event Code...again not sure if all the event code functions exist to support this but... Create an Oiler/Supply ship SFT with lots of capacity to carry supplies. Have the event code check which sea hexes those SFT's are occupying....any other ships in that hex get some fixed amount of supply added to them....and the same amount would be subtracted from the Oiler/Supply ship. That would only work with ship's of the same nationality.... but it'd be a way to extend your power projection capabilities over long distances. It'd also give the enemy an opportunity to cripple those capabilties by sinking those Oiler/Supply ships.

(in reply to explorer2)

Post #: 3

RE: New idea about allies - 8/13/2010 4:38:22 PM

explorer2

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These are great ideas GrumpyMel.
Given my time limitations, not something I'm going to pursue right now though.
I don't think the difference they'd make in the game is nearly worth all the effort it would take to make it work correctly.

(in reply to GrumpyMel)

Post #: 4

RE: New idea about allies - 8/13/2010 6:43:57 PM

kondor

Posts: 714
Joined: 5/27/2004
From: Croatia
Status: offline

I have no programming skills whatsoevere and love when you guys get all technical

.
It seems like a nice thing to have and I tought I run it by you so that you can me explain it to me why it can't be done

.

About the subs traveling here and there around the world. I donno if GE had supply dumps in japan area... but they should have if tehy didn't

.

Here is something that could support my theory... Don't have time now to dig more... This sub has apperantly transport blueprints for Japan from Brest...

Maybe even a tech excange could be done in similar fashion?

Designate a single sub and if she reach the yourney Japan/GE gets new tech from eachother?

Ok, this is a wild stuff and you guys are telling me that engine does not support this (can be done in a way that is to much work) so I am hoping that Vic is reading this and if he finds it worthy maybe include it in a new AT? Or make engine more flexible then it is now... (Here is the part where Vic does something like this:

)

http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-yanagi-missions-japans-underwater-convoys.htm/2

(in reply to explorer2)

Post #: 5

RE: New idea about allies - 8/13/2010 8:32:26 PM

GrumpyMel

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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Yeah, the engine is actually extremely flexible compared to pretty much any other game editor I've seen out there. Vic really did a bang up job, most editors don't support half the things this one does... so I'm pretty happy.

Of course there will always be things that aren't supported even the best editors.
Nice thing about the AT Editor is it's actualy not all that hard to use at all once you start getting familiar with it.

I wouldn't give up though Kondor, this community has some really bright guys, who manage to do some really crazy stuff in some of the scenarios they create. Check some of the stuff that Grymme and Tom Weber manage to pull off...it's amazing.

So you may have some-one impliment something like what you are looking for in a scenario one of these days. Nice thing is once some-body figures out how to do something in one of thier scenario's.... it creates a blue-print for other guys to incorporate into thier scenario's.

(in reply to kondor)

Post #: 6