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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Close Combat Series >> Close Combat: Last Stand Arnhem >> Game didn't include manual

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Game didn't include manual - 8/20/2010 2:47:24 AM

dandechino

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Joined: 8/13/2010
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I got the digital download and the physical product shipped to my house. I assumed that not only would installation discs be there but also a printed manual? Did anyone else have this problem? I don't care for reading a 90 page book by scrolling thru a pdf.

Post #: 1

RE: Game didn't include manual - 8/20/2010 3:05:37 AM

Tejszd

Posts: 3437
Joined: 11/17/2007
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Unfortunately I do not believe it is supposed come with a printed manual....

(in reply to dandechino)

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RE: Game didn't include manual - 8/20/2010 3:10:09 AM

Andrew Williams

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From: Australia
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This release of CC:LSA is a DX (Digital Express) version and does not include a printed manual.

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Post #: 3

RE: Game didn't include manual - 8/22/2010 10:58:34 AM

CSO_Talorgan

Posts: 768
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Presumably future versions will?

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Post #: 4

RE: Game didn't include manual - 8/22/2010 11:45:54 PM

Fred98

Posts: 4430
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From: Wollondilly, Sydney
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Close Combat is so easy it doesn't need a manual!

There are very few commands and each command is covered in the video tutorial!
-

(in reply to CSO_Talorgan)

Post #: 5

RE: Game didn't include manual - 8/23/2010 10:40:49 AM

7A_Woulf

Posts: 91
Joined: 1/28/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

Close Combat is so easy it doesn't need a manual!

There are very few commands and each command is covered in the video tutorial!
-

Sort of yes, for us 'Old-foxes', but
A) Not everyone have been around since CC2, there's always new players drawn to the CC-swamp...

And they might want to read the manual for tips on units, tactics and so on.
B) There's always small improvements that might be hard to catch if you don't spend an hour with the trusty old paper-manual. ("wtf, where did those tanks come from!?!", or "damn! Right-click to give orders, right-click!

)

(in reply to Fred98)

Post #: 6

RE: Game didn't include manual - 8/23/2010 2:39:50 PM

xe5

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Joined: 5/3/2009
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Then again, even with the manual, youre SOL if you want to know what "current status" (p.38) the color-coding of the background panels and text on the Team Monitor refers to.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 7

RE: Game didn't include manual - 8/23/2010 8:58:39 PM

Andrew Williams

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From: Australia
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Basically colour coding for nearly all aspects of the game is not detailed. (soldier outlines, Health heads etc)

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Post #: 8

RE: Game didn't include manual - 8/24/2010 3:47:11 AM

Bamilus

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Just so people aren't confused....there is a manual for this game just not a printed manual. The manual is quite good IMO, just like most Matrix Games manuals.

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Post #: 9

RE: Game didn't include manual - 8/24/2010 4:34:08 AM

chiroho

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Joined: 7/9/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

Just so people aren't confused....there is a manual for this game just not a printed manual. The manual is quite good IMO, just like most Matrix Games manuals.

I agree. The eBook manual has just as much in it, if not more, than the last printed one I received when I purchased Close Combat: Invasion Normandy. And if you want to print it out, it also comes in two printer friendly PDF versions. All you have to do is look in the "Documentation" folder in the "Close Combat Last Stand Arnhem" folder on the Start menu.

(in reply to Bamilus)

Post #: 10

RE: Game didn't include manual - 9/21/2010 1:08:32 AM

Bordic

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And what about the A Bridge Too Far history and Weapon Sound included in the original cc2? As they weren't included upgraded in this LSA, is there any way to get them to work with newer systems?

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Post #: 11

RE: Game didn't include manual - 12/12/2010 12:02:43 AM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
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tha game manual should be rewritten.....there are parts that are confusing, contradictory and poorly written to the point of cant figure out what it means, and there should be a printed manual. or at least a choice. i would have paid 5.00 more for one.

(in reply to Bordic)

Post #: 12

RE: Game didn't include manual - 12/13/2010 2:28:30 PM

RD Oddball

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Thanks for the suggestions Stiener. So that we may improve them to your standards, what specific parts of the manual do you find confusing?

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 13

RE: Game didn't include manual - 12/13/2010 10:34:03 PM

STIENER

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From: Vancouver, Canada
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http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2577653

lets start here with that post i made a while ago.....a bunch of questions and some feed back from steve [ RD Knights X ], yourself and the other steve and of course Mick, who says he has a laundry list if you want it.
its a good place to start. and of course Micks post above and many others that he has posted with inaccuracies in the manual. im sure you can find them.

i love the sarcasm too......my standards wont be meet until something is done with the a/t gun survivability and the power of the mortor.

(in reply to RD Oddball)

Post #: 14

RE: Game didn't include manual - 12/14/2010 11:44:38 PM

RD Oddball

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No sarcasm intended. There are a variety of ways a manual can be approached and have seen such in other titles. All of them effective for how they were intended. Some include the most basic set of information to get users started while others attempt to explain every last detail and nuance. The CC manuals have always been somewhere in between. While going further than most manuals there have always been details left out. Not saying there shouldn't be more detail just saying it set a precedent and was followed. It's neither here nor there from my standpoint the manuals have always worked fine for me. I need practical examples and reading about them, at some point. does me little good. I need to see them in practice. So if adding detail is important to someone else (i.e. their standards) then it's important to me and we will take every opportunity to make those improvements.

Knights had been in contact with Mick and we have a copy of Micks suggestions and Knights has reviewed them. I'm sure he'll incorporate them as is practicable and what he has time for. Thanks for checking.

And for some reason I'd thought your question in that thread had been answered and your final response sounded somewhat unsure. I put it in the tracking system.

Thanks again for your dedication and help Stiener.

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 15

RE: Game didn't include manual - 12/15/2010 5:41:38 AM

STIENER

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Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
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my pleasure Oddball.
my questions were answered in the post by a couple of people. but you asked for specifics and there they are. i shouldnt have had to ask the questions if the manual explained it right.
this new CC with its new options needs to be explained better thats all im saying. the manual isnt that bad, just could be better.
nothing worse than making a huge tactical blunder in a good game cause you didnt no how it was supposed to work. IMHO.

besides Mick is turning over in his sleep just hearing you say that you dont read the manual!!!!

(in reply to RD Oddball)

Post #: 16

RE: Game didn't include manual - 12/15/2010 1:29:05 PM

RD Oddball

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I'm sure he is. The stuff of nightmares for him. I didn't say I don't read game manuals I just said I don't need much to get me into the game and going and I figure out the rest by experience. Perhaps not the best approach but it's my way. To your point it'd be a good idea to have any details explained for those folks who want them explained.

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 17

RE: Game didn't include manual - 12/27/2010 5:13:28 PM

mazorj

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Joined: 6/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RD_Oddball

No sarcasm intended. There are a variety of ways a manual can be approached and have seen such in other titles. All of them effective for how they were intended. Some include the most basic set of information to get users started while others attempt to explain every last detail and nuance. The CC manuals have always been somewhere in between. While going further than most manuals there have always been details left out. Not saying there shouldn't be more detail just saying it set a precedent and was followed. It's neither here nor there from my standpoint the manuals have always worked fine for me. I need practical examples and reading about them, at some point. does me little good. I need to see them in practice. So if adding detail is important to someone else (i.e. their standards) then it's important to me and we will take every opportunity to make those improvements.

Only providing a .pdf of the manual is a two-edged sword.

Reading from a hardcopy printed manual is much easier. However, most printed manuals at best are a decent first draft of what users need. The advantage of .pdf manuals is that they can be continually updated as downloads. In fact they should be continually updated to reflect user comments and requests. As a WAG, I'd say that each release could use at least 3-4 interim updates of its manual in the first year after a game release. I am not aware of this being done with any of my Matrix WW2 games. We get one or two game updates plus modded scenarios but nothing in the line of between-release updates of the manual.

Since there are no associated printing costs with .pdf manuals, I see the Matrix policy of providing "in between" manuals instead of highly detailed versions (plus no interim updates) as a bit of cheapskating. Typo errors - as I found in LSA - also tell me that manuals are not a very high priority feature for game releases. It appears that a "good enough for commercial release" attitude prevails.

I'm not saying that every last niggling thought in the developer's head should be included in a manual; but as the comments here have shown, players of highly specialized niche game systems such as CC will welcome and readily devour a highly detailed manual. This includes both developer commentary and guidance as well as the basic information that often goes MIA because the developers assume that players are as familiar with the game as they are or will figure it out on their own (or just plain old corner-cutting when it comes to quality control for the completeness of manuals).

Flaws in the AI, scenario editing tools, the quality of graphics, how to tie strategic-level outcomes to a few small-unit battles, etc. are deeply rooted systemic issues and not easily fixed. OTOH, problems with manuals are "surface issues" that can be readily fixed by a decent wordsmith creating new downloadable versions.

Bottom Line: Please don't skimp on details - pour it on! - and make it a standard practice to provide downloadable interim updates to the .pdf manuals.

(in reply to RD Oddball)

Post #: 18

RE: Game didn't include manual - 12/27/2010 7:47:39 PM

Tejszd

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Good point mazorj!!!

If a printed manual is not going to be included at least then take advantage of it being electronic and update it as people post feedback and or patches change how things work....

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Post #: 19

RE: Game didn't include manual - 12/28/2010 2:16:17 PM

RD Oddball

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Great suggestions mazorj. We'd had similar thoughts and an addendum was included in the most recent update. It was done in the interest of getting the critical informational changes into users hands as soon as possible. The current system Matrix has in place for processing manuals doesn't really allow for multiple updates of the PDF manual but I'd say alterations to that system or an overhaul would be in order to be more flexible for the reasons you suggested. They're making a lot of improvements to other aspects of their business perhaps they'll consider this one along with those changes.

Thanks!

< Message edited by RD_Oddball -- 12/28/2010 3:49:00 PM >

(in reply to Tejszd)

Post #: 20