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Ok, give me the lowdown on modding LSA

 
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Ok, give me the lowdown on modding LSA - 8/16/2010 3:16:33 AM   
Hoogley

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline 		Ok, Admin type peoples, this thread is a chance for some loving and information about how to mod some of the new features of LSA.

So, firstly, Force Pools. I can't quite follow the way the data works in comparison to the original FPs. Ok, I actually had trouble following them as well, but I know it's different now.

Please could you tell us how the FP data works?

Cheers,
Hoogs.
Post #: 1
RE: Ok, give me the lowdown on modding LSA - 8/16/2010 7:17:29 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		No one knows.

(in reply to Hoogley)
Post #: 2
FPools.txt - 8/18/2010 6:05:47 PM   
xe5

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 5/3/2009
Status: offline 		As best I can determine, the FPools.txt file is formatted as follows:

The first row contains a Quantity multiplier value for each difficulty level. Example: a Quantity of 6, at Elite difficulty, results in having an in-game forcepool quantity of 1 (6 x 0.198 = 1.188)

The value in the second row is the number of battlegroups in the file.

The values in the third row are: the battlegroup index # corresponding to the values in the BGroups.txt file; the side value (0=Allied, 1=Axis); the battlegroup name.

The values in the fourth row alternate between team class#/quantity. Team class# corresponds to the values in the Alsteams and AxsTeams files. A Team class# value of -1 signifies NONE. Example: The Allied Team Class# 0 (US Company HQ) has a quantity of 6. The actual in-game forcepool quantity for US Company HQ teams depends on the difficulty level multiplier. (Quantity 6) x (difficulty multiplier 0.335) = 2.01.

'Quantity x Difficulty Modifier' results greater than 1 are rounded down. Results less than 1 have a non-standard rounding pattern. Example: a quantity of 1 and a Recruit difficulty multiplier 0.462 (1 x 0.462 = 0.462 = in-game quantity 1)

The value in the fifth row is an additional quantity multiplier based on the starting day. Only Allied battlegroups have starting day multipliers less than 1 where the in-game forcepool team quantities are influenced by both the difficulty multiplier and the start day multiplier. Example: in a custom battle set on Sept. 26 (Day10), at Veteran difficulty, a quantity of 9 in FPools results in an actual in-game forcepool quantity of 1 (9 x .264 x .84 = 1.99584 = 1).

The sixth row is set up similar to the fifth row but the values are always 1. If this is another multiplier it has no effect with this value. Testing with values other than 1 may reveal the purpose of this row.

The seventh row indicates the number of reinforcement turns for that battlegroup. If this value is 0 then that battlegroup's data set ends at the eighth row which will also be 0. If this value is other than 0 there will be that many rows of reinforcement data before the end of that battlegroup's data set.

The values in the eighth row are: turn# reinforcements will be received into the BG forcepool followed by alternating team class#s and quantities.To receive reinforcements a battlegroup must be in major supply (access to a 3 barrel depot), not engaged in battle, and have a cohesion level higher than X (75%?). If a BG cannot meet these conditions, reinforcements are post-poned until it can. Example: on Turn 7 (0000 Sept 18), subject to the difficulty modifier, if 501/101 BG meets the preceding conditions, it will receive - 1 Sniper, 24 Sherman Vs, 12 Sherman Fireflys and 11 Stuart Vs.

The values in the ninth row are formatted the same as the eighth row - reinforcement turn# followed by alternating team class#s and quantities.

The value in the tenth row signifies the end of the forcepool data set for the 501/101 battlegroup. The data set for the next battlegroup starts on row eleven.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 3
RE: FPools.txt - 8/18/2010 9:05:10 PM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Do you think additional rows could be added above  "End of BG data".... having an end would suggest so.


EDIT: Ok , I see you can by adjusting row #7

< Message edited by Andrew Williams -- 8/18/2010 9:09:19 PM >

(in reply to xe5)
Post #: 4
RE: FPools.txt - 8/18/2010 11:36:37 PM   
Hoogley

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks xe5. And, am I right in thinking that there is now no set limit to FP unit listings? I'm hoping for a yes.

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Post #: 5
RE: FPools.txt - 8/19/2010 12:19:55 AM   
xe5

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 5/3/2009
Status: offline 		Circumstantial evidence points to a limit of 64 teams per BG.

Circumspect evidence points to the fifth row being the Start Day Multiplier for infantry, and the sixth row being the Start Day Multiplier for vehicles.


(in reply to Hoogley)
Post #: 6
RE: FPools.txt - 8/19/2010 11:06:04 AM   
Hoogley

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline 		Man, despite the fact that I am going to squeeze in every last unit I can think of into the mod, 64 is probably still more that I can rationally come up with to fit into one BG.

That said, I am glad to hear the limit is so high. There are so many different axis units involved in Op' Market Garden that the old 25 unit limit used to make me very upset about how many unit types I would have to leave out.

Speaking of which, does anybody know if there's a limit to how many units in the AlsTeams and AxsTeams files? If not, I am going to give it a dam good try at finding out where it caps.

_____________________________

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(in reply to xe5)
Post #: 7
RE: FPools.txt - 8/25/2010 4:18:35 AM   
Ivan_Zaitzev


Posts: 49
Joined: 6/19/2009
Status: offline 		How do you edit the Active Rooster?

(in reply to Hoogley)
Post #: 8
RE: FPools.txt - 8/25/2010 3:01:05 PM   
Hoogley

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline 		Had to go back and check; couldn't remember.

EDIT - My original entry was completely wrong.

EDITED EDIT - My original entry was actually right. This post is now entirely incorrect, but I'm going to leave it for logical conversation flow. See the posts below to find out how the active roster actually works.

In the BGroups.txt file, the last fifteen values for each BG listing is the Class value in AlsTeams.txt or AxsTeams.txt for your active roster. 1-5 is 1st Plt, top to bottom, 6-10 is 2nd Plt, and 11-15 is Support.

In BGroups.txt, the value immediately after the BG name determines which team list is used for that BG: 0 = AlsTeams.txt, 1 = AxsTeams.txt

The Class is the index number for each team entry. E.g., For TLD AlsTeams it's: Platoon HQ = 0, Sniper = 1, Rifle Team = 2, BAR Team = 3, etc.

Somewhere in one of those files is a value that determines which slots are active and which are permanently inactive for each BG.

Hope that helps.

< Message edited by Hoogley -- 8/26/2010 12:42:29 PM >

_____________________________

"I have come here to kick arse and chew bubblegum... and I'm all out of bubblegum." - They Live

(in reply to Ivan_Zaitzev)
Post #: 9
RE: FPools.txt - 8/25/2010 4:06:12 PM   
Hoogley

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline 		Well, I added values to FPools for the 1st BG, being the 501 PIR, to a total of 26 team entries just to see if LSA would crash.

It didn't. In fact, everything worked fine.

I was worried that the fact there are negative value fillers up to a total of 25 per BG listing meant that was the maximum listings per BG. I assume the actual case is that each BG must have at least 25 listings to avoid engine crash. Who really cares... you can go above 25 and that's all that matters. I assume that 64 entries is the maxout point, which must be kept in consideration.

This is a fantastic result!

Huge variety of German units for OMG? Hell yes.

_____________________________

"I have come here to kick arse and chew bubblegum... and I'm all out of bubblegum." - They Live

(in reply to Hoogley)
Post #: 10
RE: FPools.txt - 8/25/2010 7:26:24 PM   
Ivan_Zaitzev


Posts: 49
Joined: 6/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoogley
In the BGroups.txt file, the last fifteen values for each BG listing is the Class value in AlsTeams.txt or AxsTeams.txt for your active roster. 1-5 is 1st Plt, top to bottom, 6-10 is 2nd Plt, and 11-15 is Support.

In BGroups.txt, the value immediately after the BG name determines which team list is used for that BG: 0 = AlsTeams.txt, 1 = AxsTeams.txt

The Class is the index number for each team entry. E.g., For TLD AlsTeams it's: Platoon HQ = 0, Sniper = 1, Rifle Team = 2, BAR Team = 3, etc.


I haven´t tested what you say, but if you take a look at the Axis in Bgroups.txt, all the first teams have a 0, 8, 7, 5, 11. Even if they are SS.

And for example the 280 StugBde 2nd platoon values are 2, 36, 36, 36, 23, meaning something like Sniper, 3 x Light HT Mortars and a Heavy AA Gun. Non of this units are in the Force pool of this BG so I don´t quite understand this.

Again I havent tryed to change this values yet.


(in reply to Hoogley)
Post #: 11
RE: FPools.txt - 8/26/2010 8:13:17 AM   
Hoogley

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline 		I haven't played with the BGroups.txt file yet. It shouldwork based on the TLD worksheet notes and the discussion above.

I'll fiddle tonight and see what the outcome is.


_____________________________

"I have come here to kick arse and chew bubblegum... and I'm all out of bubblegum." - They Live

(in reply to Ivan_Zaitzev)
Post #: 12
RE: FPools.txt - 8/26/2010 10:50:17 AM   
xe5

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 5/3/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ivan_Zaitzev

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoogley
In the BGroups.txt file, the last fifteen values for each BG listing is the Class value in AlsTeams.txt or AxsTeams.txt for your active roster. 1-5 is 1st Plt, top to bottom, 6-10 is 2nd Plt, and 11-15 is Support.

In BGroups.txt, the value immediately after the BG name determines which team list is used for that BG: 0 = AlsTeams.txt, 1 = AxsTeams.txt

The Class is the index number for each team entry. E.g., For TLD AlsTeams it's: Platoon HQ = 0, Sniper = 1, Rifle Team = 2, BAR Team = 3, etc.


I haven´t tested what you say, but if you take a look at the Axis in Bgroups.txt, all the first teams have a 0, 8, 7, 5, 11. Even if they are SS.

And for example the 280 StugBde 2nd platoon values are 2, 36, 36, 36, 23, meaning something like Sniper, 3 x Light HT Mortars and a Heavy AA Gun. Non of this units are in the Force pool of this BG so I don´t quite understand this.

Again I havent tryed to change this values yet.

The workbook headers are wrong in this case. The final 15 "slot" values in BGroups refer to the team TYPE value, not the team CLASS value. The team TYPE values are found in column 5 of the *teams.txt files.

Based on the TYPE values below, the 280 StugBde 2nd platoon values of 2, 36, 36, 36, 23 refer to 1xVehicle Cmnd Tank, 3xVehicle Jmb Tank, 1xVehicle Halftrack.

Range = 0 - 38. 0 = Command Infantry, 1 = Cmnd Halftrack, 2 = Vehicle Cmnd Tank, 3 = Crew, 4 = Sniper, 5 = Anti-Tank Infantry, 6 = Recon, 7 = Rifle, 8 = Heavy Rifle, 9 = Assault Infantry, 10 = Engineer, 11 = Machine Gun, 12 = Lt Mortar, 13 = Gun Light Infantry, 14 = Gun Medium Infantry, 15 = Gun Heavy Infantry, 16 = Gun Light Flak, 17 = Gun Medium Flak, 18 = Gun Heavy Flak, 19 = Gun Light AT, 20 = Gun Medium AT, 21 = Gun Heavy AT, 22 = Vehicle Truck, 23 = Vehicle Halftrack, 24 = Vehicle Recon, 25 = Vehicle Flak, 26 = Vehicle Lt Assault Gun, 27 = Vehicle Md Assault Gun, 28 = Vehicle Hvy Assault Gun, 29 = Vehicle Jmb Assault Gun, 30 = Vehicle Lt Tank Dest, 31 = Vehicle Md T Dest, 32 = Vehicle Hvy Tank Dest, 33 = Vehicle Lt Tank, 34 = Vehicle Md Tank, 35 = Vehicle Hvy Tank, 36 = Vehicle Jmb Tank, 37 = Vehicle Lt Halftrack, 38 = Vehicle Mortar Halftrack, 39 = Med Mortar, 40 = Company Command Team

(in reply to Ivan_Zaitzev)
Post #: 13
RE: FPools.txt - 8/26/2010 12:40:01 PM   
Hoogley

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline 		Ahhhh... yes. So, my original post was in fact correct (and edited by me to then be incorrect, unfortunately). That's how I thought it worked.

So, you can determine what type of unit will fill each slot, but not what specific unit will fill it. This of course makes sense, since the units must be drawn from the Force Pool, and are not additional units to those in the Force Pool.

Out of pure query: anyone know what happens if you choose a unit Type that has no representation in the relevant FPool listing? Game engine crash?

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"I have come here to kick arse and chew bubblegum... and I'm all out of bubblegum." - They Live

(in reply to xe5)
Post #: 14
RE: FPools.txt - 8/26/2010 1:15:28 PM   
xe5

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 5/3/2009
Status: offline 		The team TYPE slots in BGroups are just guides for the engine to follow in filling a BG. Youll often have situations where a particular TYPE is specified in BGroups but, due to attrition, no team of that TYPE is available in the forcepool. In such cases, the engine will substitute another TYPE of team in that slot if points are available.

(in reply to Hoogley)
Post #: 15
RE: FPools.txt - 8/26/2010 7:40:50 PM   
Ivan_Zaitzev


Posts: 49
Joined: 6/19/2009
Status: offline 		You are the man Xe5! Thanks a lot!

(in reply to xe5)
Post #: 16
RE: FPools.txt - 8/27/2010 6:03:59 PM   
Ivan_Zaitzev


Posts: 49
Joined: 6/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xe5

The team TYPE slots in BGroups are just guides for the engine to follow in filling a BG. Youll often have situations where a particular TYPE is specified in BGroups but, due to attrition, no team of that TYPE is available in the forcepool. In such cases, the engine will substitute another TYPE of team in that slot if points are available.


Also if the BG doesn't have enough points to buy that specific unit it will fill the slot with another one.
So... any way to give more points to BG? I mean by editing the .txt files so you will allways have those points not using the SHIFT key every time you create something in the editor.

Once again thanks Xe5 and Hoogley for your answers!

(in reply to xe5)
Post #: 17
RE: FPools.txt - 8/29/2010 8:36:11 AM   
Hoogley

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline 		Next test: I duplicated the 123 entries in AlsTeams.txt and added them below the original entires, changing their Class (or index) to 124 up to 246. I then changed the FPools.txt file to reference these extra units, just to make sure the engine was forced to actually use them.

The reason is to test whether there is any meaningful maximum to the number of teams you can have.

The answer? Nope. I referenced all the way up to Class # 246 without issue. I don't think we'll get as high as that, so I didn't bother testing higher. At least two hundred and forty-six different teams for the Allies, and that again for the Axis is more room than most modders will use, I think.

Next test will be the Soldiers.txt file.

< Message edited by Hoogley -- 8/29/2010 8:39:20 AM >

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"I have come here to kick arse and chew bubblegum... and I'm all out of bubblegum." - They Live

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Post #: 18
RE: FPools.txt - 8/29/2010 10:26:07 AM   
Hoogley

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline 		Tested Soldiers.txt up to 328 entries without issue.

_____________________________

"I have come here to kick arse and chew bubblegum... and I'm all out of bubblegum." - They Live

(in reply to Hoogley)
Post #: 19
RE: FPools.txt - 8/29/2010 12:11:21 PM   
Hoogley

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline 		Anybody know what determines a BG as Static vs BO? I can't seem to find the data entry for this.

Cheers.

_____________________________

"I have come here to kick arse and chew bubblegum... and I'm all out of bubblegum." - They Live

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Post #: 20
RE: FPools.txt - 8/29/2010 8:42:54 PM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Unless I'm completely mistaken

Static = BO

(in reply to Hoogley)
Post #: 21
RE: FPools.txt - 8/30/2010 1:39:22 AM   
Hoogley

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline 		Yeah, sorry about that. I don't know enough German, it turns out.

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"I have come here to kick arse and chew bubblegum... and I'm all out of bubblegum." - They Live

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Post #: 22
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