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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds 1 Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR

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RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/25/2010 4:34:58 AM

rk0123msp@mindspring

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One thing that I noticed, that would've had an impact is that I had 5 colony ships built eating up 13k of ship's maintenance costs. I laid these ships out early in the game in the expectation that I would use them quickly, which has always been my experience in prior games. Little did I know, I'd go 7 years without finding a new colony to send them.

That 13k could've provided me with 4 more DDs, which just might've tipped the balance in my favor had 1st and 2nd fleet been beefed up with 4 more DDs against those 2CA and 3DD of Kurbus in the KG system. At very least, those last two battles would've beem much closer and Kurbus would've bled more than they did .. possibly giving me a fighting chance .. darn, wish I'd noticed this earlier.

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Post #: 31

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/25/2010 3:25:03 PM

Grotius

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I have no idea why transports would auto-attack another empire. This hasn't happened to me if I have everything on manual, which is how I play.

On fuel, doesn't the cargo tab tell us how much is at a particular place? As for fuel requirements, that you can figure out from each ship's detail screen. It's usually a few hundred units for early-game ships, I think.

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Post #: 32

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/25/2010 6:51:19 PM

rk0123msp@mindspring

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I have saved games at all the printscreen shots in my posts above, so I could start the game from where I left off each time while making the gif image in paint.

I went back and found the cargo tab at KG_5 just after I took that planet. I have no idea which item is fuel? How do I know how much fuel is on this planet?

(Figure 24) 2762.07.19_fuel_KG5

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 33

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/25/2010 6:52:54 PM

rk0123msp@mindspring

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This next printscreen shows my praeter 1 troop ship which is set to manual. This was where I found it after the previous battle in the KG system, which was what I was focusing on at that time. Afterwards, I found my transport fleet unbelievably attacking a strongly defended colony in the Abset system. You can see that praeter 1 is on manual, no blue arrows. Apparently its order at the top of the detail screen is �engage nearby targets�. The last positioning of this fleet was the KG system, which can be seen in the screenshot of my next post.

By the way, I also opened the options tab to show my settings. Maybe I can figure why these ships decided to do this, so I can better enable my settings & controls in the future to prevent the game from taking �auto� control of my military ships. Most of the settings are set to manual, and those that aren�t are set to �suggest� only (which I translate as: the in-game-advisor offers a suggestion menu only but does not act on his own accord as far as overriding my �manual� setting).

By the way, I just realized that there is actually a freighter of mine in this system; you can see it about three inches above my transport (has a ring of green circular dots around it). Why on earth would a freighter of mine be visiting a heavily defended planet of my enemy? Are private sector ships considered non-combatants? If not, it makes no sense to me why a freighter would visit a planet it obviously cannot trade with?

(Figure 25) 2763.09.10_TT_suicide

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< Message edited by rk0123msp@mindspring -- 8/25/2010 6:58:38 PM >

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Post #: 34

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/25/2010 6:54:23 PM

rk0123msp@mindspring

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This screenshot shows the position of the transport fleet: Praeter 1 is in the Abset system doing its suicide attack on Abset-1. Praetor 2 is the triangle halfway there (between the KG and Abset system). The fleet is set to engage system targets & it's set on manual (no blue arrows). I assume this means it attacks only enemy ships which enter the system in which the fleet is positioned? Which should be the KG system because that�s where the transport fleet (5th fleet) was originally positioned.

(Figure 26) 2763.09.10_TT_fleet

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< Message edited by rk0123msp@mindspring -- 8/25/2010 7:03:22 PM >

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Post #: 35

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/25/2010 11:07:46 PM

Grotius

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Fuel is either Caslon or Hydrogen (I think), depending on your ships. It looks like you had some fuel, maybe not a lot, on hand.

Dunno about the ship behavior. I think I read earlier that the devs suggested you send them a saved game, but you couldn't find the folder. It is indeed rather hard to find. On my Win7 system, it's buried somewhere in c:/users/.../appdata/roaming/codeforce (even though the game itself is installed on my E: drive). Might be worth a try; they could tell you whether the behavior you describe was as-designed or a bug.

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Post #: 36

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/25/2010 11:40:39 PM

rk0123msp@mindspring

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I would send the saved game as I definitely have it somehwere, the problem like you mentioned is finding it. I found the matrix game -> distant worlds directory and I went through every single folder trying to find the saved games folder, but it's not there. I also have windows 7. I tried using the search tool for appdata/roaming but there is no matches. I tried searching for Kindeloids, the name of my saved games, but it's not showing the saved games (only the gif files I made).

I can load any of the save games once I go into "play" and select game, when I right click properties I get a long path result. I followed the path, but I think the "App Data" file is hidden (it's not in the directory of the path and it's not showing up in search-box results). I'm not sure where the show hidden files control is in windows 7?

I actually only just bought this computer a month or so ago, so I'm still adjusting to windows 7, I had a hell of a time just connecting to the internet & configuring my old stuff (printer, modem, wireless network, speakers, mic) which are all non-windows 7 era. July was the tech support month from hell for me.

.. figured out how to display hidden files in windows 7, have to go to control panel -> set "All control panel items" at the top search box -> folder options -> view tab at top -> show hidden files radio button -> Apply

I sent the saved game to erik, maybe he'll see something that I'm not.

< Message edited by rk0123msp@mindspring -- 8/26/2010 12:16:02 AM >

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Post #: 37

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/26/2010 2:16:54 AM

Equendil

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One thing that might have happened with your transports is that the lead ship started shooting something in the KG system (being in "engage system targets" mode) that warped away, and it followed all the way to that Abset system. Once the lead ship was there, the other ship would have followed as well, as that's an automatic behaviour (moving to the lead ship when idle) of ships in a fleet.

A suggestion for future games: remove weapons from your transports (replace with more shields). You don't really want them in the middle of a space battle, and if they don't have weapons, they'll stay where you park them, always. Not really a work around for the more general problem of unwanted automated behaviour, but it's a whole less annoying when your transports are not involved.

Also a suggestion for Erik if he reads it: ships on manual should probably not warp away to follow an ennemy ship if they engaged automatically, only when specifically asked to attack a target, or there should be an option to control that specific behaviour maybe.

About cruisers, it takes just one tech upgrade to your ship yards to build them, so they can be made pretty early if that particular tech is researched. You can also go to your design panel and make a "light" cruiser (copy the existing design and remove a few components) that's 230 in size and can be built right away from the beginning.

On the refueling thing: Either caslon or hydrogen are used as fuel depending what reactor tech you have. There was plenty of hydrogen but only 907 caslon in store on that planet and it's quite possible that wasn't enough for all your ships and they were sent to another place to refuel because of that. I don't know really, I've noticed in my games that ships rarely refuel at a planet, they usually jump to a location with a spaceport or a gas mining station but I've never really paid much attention to it.

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Post #: 38

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/26/2010 2:51:44 AM

Equendil

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On exploration:

Galaxies seem to be generated with "patches" of independant colonies and good quality continental planets (well it seems that way to me at least). Once you've colonized your local patch, you might well not find much of anything until your explorers move several sectors away to the next "patch".

To keep expanding steadily, you need to be able to colonize more world types. To that end, you either need better colonization modules, or independent colonies living on those world types. If you secure an independent colony on a desert planet, you can then build colony ships on that planet to colonize other deserts, even if you don't have the necessary tech. If the population of such a colony is hostile, don't waste time and send troops right away, it'll soon pay off. As a bonus to the ability to colonize more worlds, it also gives you access to different resources without mining stations.

You also of course, need a good exploration scheme, best start exploring in all directions, favouring dense sectors over sparse ones, even if it means skipping a nearby sector for the time being (least until you encounter another empire in that direction).

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Post #: 39

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/26/2010 2:59:49 AM

rk0123msp@mindspring

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Those are definitely some good suggestions. I definitely learned a couple of key things this game. It's good to know that caslon & hydrogen are the fuel sources. I was not aware of this up to this point (for some reason I thought there was some kind of generic "fuel" that I was missing); this makes the whole ship design dimension that much more important. I think in the future, I'll redesingn my starting ship types to include more useful items like fuel cells. I definitely need to redesign that transport; I absolutely can't have transports attacking ships, especially when they're loaded down with troops that cost a lot of time & bucks to recruit and maintain in addition to the transport costs itself.

More fuel cells on my starting is going to be a must, yanking the guns for troop ships & replacing with shield is an excellent idea. Making light cruisers is probably a good idea too, but I assume maintenence costs will be same as a cruiser? In that case, it might be better to make a big destroyer and save on maintenence (ends up with the same result but less cost, I'm guessing).

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Someone had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:

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Post #: 40

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/26/2010 3:07:37 AM

rk0123msp@mindspring

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Equendil

On exploration:

Galaxies seem to be generated with "patches" of independant colonies and good quality continental planets (well it seems that way to me at least). Once you've colonized your local patch, you might well not find much of anything until your explorers move several sectors away to the next "patch".

To keep expanding steadily, you need to be able to colonize more world types. To that end, you either need better colonization modules, or independent colonies living on those world types. If you secure an independent colony on a desert planet, you can then build colony ships on that planet to colonize other deserts, even if you don't have the necessary tech. If the population of such a colony is hostile, don't waste time and send troops right away, it'll soon pay off. As a bonus to the ability to colonize more worlds, it also gives you access to different resources without mining stations.

You also of course, need a good exploration scheme, best start exploring in all directions, favouring dense sectors over sparse ones, even if it means skipping a nearby sector for the time being (least until you encounter another empire in that direction).

I know I had conquered a swampy marsh type world at KG-5 in this AAR game. So, you're saying that if I had built a colony ship on KG-5 I could've colonized marshy swamp worlds? .. wow, if that's true this opens up a whole dimension of colonization expansion that I was unaware of & not taking advantage of. For some reason, I was under the impression that you could only colonize non-continental worlds if there was already an existing colony, or if you first gained the required technology. This makes early conquest of independant colonies on non-continental planets a must.

.. thanks for the tips

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Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:

(in reply to Equendil)

Post #: 41

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/27/2010 2:06:04 AM

Equendil

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quote:

More fuel cells on my starting is going to be a must, yanking the guns for troop ships & replacing with shield is an excellent idea. Making light cruisers is probably a good idea too, but I assume maintenence costs will be same as a cruiser? In that case, it might be better to make a big destroyer and save on maintenence (ends up with the same result but less cost, I'm guessing).

Light cruiser or big destroyer, it does not matter, if you put in the same components, they'll cost the same to build and maintain.

quote:

So, you're saying that if I had built a colony ship on KG-5 I could've colonized marshy swamp worlds?

Absolutely, though there seems to be a population threshold below which you can't build colony ships so they might not be available right away or you might not be able to queue as many as you'd like. The expansion planner does take all that into account mind you. If you can build a colony ship for marshy swamps anywhere, it'll show those as potential colonies, and it'll queue construction in the right place.

(in reply to rk0123msp@mindspring)

Post #: 42

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/27/2010 2:08:44 AM

rk0123msp@mindspring

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I decided to do a couple of last experiments before exiting this AAR for good. I went back to the 2763.09 turn and did two things: raised taxes to 20% (instead of 25%) in order to determine where the "point of diminishing returns occurs", and I also laid down a colony ship on a marshy swamp world to see if I had any new colonization options available.

As far as the tax rate, 20% brought me 64k one year later (over the original base of 62k 12 planets). Previously, 25% only got me 65k with the base being same. It seems to me the point of diminishing returns is roughly at or on/near the 15% tax bracket; any more than this and you'll get very little additional income for the price you pay in unhappiness. Thus, point of diminishing returns = 15% tax bracket give or take a percentage point.

I tried to lay down a colony ship in the KG-5 marshy swamp planet, but there was no colony ship construction options in the drop-down menu. In fact, many of my planets could not build colony ships. I think it has to do with the available population: planets that had more than 100k population had colony ship construction options available. Those less than 100k did not. As luck would have it, I had another marshy swamp world at Nauja in the Ilyseom system which I gained control of very early in the game, it had over 100k population, and it had a colony ship option in the drop-down. I built a colony ship here, but when it was done there were no addtional colonization options in the "potential colonization" tab (menu) at the top of the display. This might have been because I had not discovered any new marshy swamp worlds with my exp ships which sucked wind the second half of the game, or it might be some other reason. I don't know.

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Someone had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
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Post #: 43

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/28/2010 2:32:04 AM

rk0123msp@mindspring

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I started a completely new game using what I learned in this AAR. I re-designed all my main ship designs from scratch bottom-up, and added more fuel tanks for one thing. Made my exploration ships more expensive but it's paid off in a big way. One thing I noticed is that I was able to colonize a few independant colonies on marshy swamp worlds. I made a point of building colony ships on these worlds at the first opportunity. Screenshot below shows in the news panel "new colony ship build at nobea-1" which is swampy marsh world. I opened up the expansion planner which shows several unexplored world, many are ocean since I was able to colonize an ocean planet with an independant colony (which is not able to build colony ships yet as it's population is too small currently). The problem is, I have an empty marshy swamp world waiting to be colonized (Oldai, highlighted below), but as you can see there is no colony ship able to colonize it, even though I built a colony ship from a marshy swamp planet which shoulod be able to colonize it (should show up as an available colony ship in the box below). I'm not sure what's going on here? Is there something else I'm missing, why can't I colonize a marshy swamp world with a colony ship build on a marshy swamp world?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by rk0123msp@mindspring -- 8/28/2010 2:35:39 AM >

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Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:

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Post #: 44

RE: Kindeloids: Blow-byBlow AAR - 8/30/2010 3:23:09 AM

Equendil

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Colony ships only show up as "available" if they're idle ("no mission"). If they're moving, refueling, doing anything at all, they won't. You seem to have opened the expansion planner just after the ship was completed, but before it had "completed its mission" (moving into orbit after construction).

If there is any doubt, select on a colony ship, it will show what worlds it can colonize in the summary window.

< Message edited by Equendil -- 8/30/2010 3:24:16 AM >

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Post #: 45