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RE: Here we go! - 8/20/2010 9:38:05 AM   
veji1

 

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pfiou... How big is KB ? What is its latest upgrade status ? how much LBA, can you rotate in and out of the Marshalls for the job of tiring this CAP ? How many Subs can you send to disrupt ? Have you planned some small cheap SCTFs (Old CLs and DDs) to disrupt the allied mass ? Do you have big guns available for roughing up his fleet if it becomes disorganised ?

This is it mate, You have the LBA advantage, the KB is strong, his power not unstoppable yet.. If you hurt him very badly here, it gives you hope until late 44....

I can't wait !


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Adieu Ô Dieu odieux... signé Adam

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 541
RE: Here we go! - 8/20/2010 10:57:07 AM   
krupp_88mm


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go for it!, be aggressive now and here, the longer you wait the bigger one-side losses you will take, next time you may not be so lucky to spot his attack early, engage him with ferocity and everything you can muster under LBA, put subs in his retreat path to take out the cripples...BANZAI!

< Message edited by krupp_88mm -- 8/20/2010 10:58:29 AM >

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Post #: 542
RE: Here we go! - 8/20/2010 1:55:31 PM   
veji1

 

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Indeed, the key here is the stacking off all the planes you can muster within range..  Oscars would be good if you have some, with their extra range they can escort further, even if they will get slaugthered...

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(in reply to krupp_88mm)
Post #: 543
Gaming the Air Model - 8/21/2010 1:00:52 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
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Sept. 7, 1943

My attempt to engage the allied Carrier CAP was an abysmal failure. Basically, the system makes escorts into cannon fodder. If the escorts get separated from the bombers, then everything is great because they become sweepers rather than escorts and not only get the sweep bonus, but do not suffer the escort penalty. But should they stick with the bombers, the escorts are toast.

The reason for this mainly seems to do with the all powerful altitude advantage. In the following CR you can see that Hellcats were able to scramble to a higher level than the incoming raid. Therefore every single Hellcat on CAP was able to dive on and bounce the escorts. In no case did the Tojo's dive on a Hellcat. OTOH, the Wildcats in this combat were "spill over CAP" from an adjacent hex. They did not get the advantage of radar (bizarre, yes?) and so in that case, the Tojo's dove down on the Wildcats. Over all, only 2 Hellcats were lost A2A, 3 Wildcats were lost A2A, and 26 Tojo's. That is a 13-1 kill ratio for the Hellcats.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Maloelap at 142,116
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid detected at 200 NM, estimated altitude 30,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 63 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 70
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 3

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 8
F6F-3 Hellcat x 324

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 11 destroyed
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

CAP engaged:
VF-1 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 21 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 53 minutes
27 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-2 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 20 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 27000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
25 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-3 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 22 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 27000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 52 minutes
28 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-42 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 20 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 32000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 51 minutes
25 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 22 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 32000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 49 minutes
32 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 27000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 50 minutes
10 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-9 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 22 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
26 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-16 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 21 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 23000 and 29000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 49 minutes
27 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-18 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 22 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 30000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 60 minutes
28 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-71 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 27000 and 29000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-22 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 23000 and 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-23 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 23000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-24 with F6F-3 Hellcat (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 25000 and 32000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 38 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Maloelap at 142,116
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid detected at 200 NM, estimated altitude 28,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 63 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 8
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 3

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4
F6F-3 Hellcat x 294

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 2 destroyed
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 2 destroyed

So, since only a fool would volunteer to escort a bombing mission, I am going to try to make fools out of the American CV fighters. Since I cannot sweep the enemy CAP, and trying to hit it via the escort method is worthless, what I need to do is hit it when it is escorting a strike. This will give me the altitude advantage and the enemy will suffer the escort penalty. I wish I had considered this earlier, but I really didn't understand that the escort penalty was so extremely severe. If I had planned for this, I could have had more sacrificial ships in position that I could induce the allied carriers to attack. What I do have is four ships anchored at Kwajalein. I formed them into a TF and am moving it to Ailinglaplap. Meanwhile basically every fighter sentai on the adjacent islands has been set to either CAP or LRCAP Ailinglaplap. The hope is that the allied CVs will launch a strike on these sacrificial ships which my CAP can then engage on advantageous terms.

It looks as though the main allied target here is going to be Ailinglaplap. I say this because of the path the allied ships are taking and because this atoll offers the largest potential airfield in the entire island group. Therefore, it seems likely that an invasion is still two days away. Meanwhile, KB is still one day from Truk and 3-4 days from the Marshals. Hopefully I will not lose any CVs to allied subs, although this seems highly probable.





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< Message edited by cap_and_gown -- 8/21/2010 3:11:26 PM >

(in reply to veji1)
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RE: Gaming the Air Model - 8/21/2010 11:33:00 AM   
veji1

 

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Don't lose your focus, this turn sucks but what you want to do is attrit his CAP, make it work, tire it, so that when the KB arrives he is on the back foot. you need to stack all the islands to death and attack him relentlessly. try this CAP trap this turn if you want, but next attack him with massed lba, and repeat until the KB arrives.. this is the ideal scenario for a jap player : have surface forces converging as well, you need to hurt him badly here and keep Ailinglapap closed if he takes it because you need Kwaj for your injured CVs after the battle while his will have to travel a long way. Be brave and to not hesitate to bleed your LBA to death over the next 3 days, it all happens now!

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RE: Gaming the Air Model - 8/21/2010 12:01:34 PM   
krupp_88mm


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quote:

Hopefully I do not lose and CVs to allied subs, although this seems highly probable.

put a hand full of dd's in front of and or beside the KB as it advances, should force the subs down keep them suppressed as KB passes by, and maybe even distract one of his air strikes and or intercept any surface raids

< Message edited by krupp_88mm -- 8/21/2010 12:02:54 PM >

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Post #: 546
RE: Gaming the Air Model - 8/22/2010 12:07:32 AM   
CapAndGown


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Sept. 8, 1943

My plan to sacrifice some ships in order to draw out a naval strike worked. Turns out I used more ships than I needed to, but at least we put some hurt on the allied CAP. The reason I used four ships was because I was afraid that the search SBDs would sink anything less than that and lead to no naval attack occurring. Also, the target needed to be big enough so that it would not be ignored.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Ailinglaplap at 133,117
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid spotted at 23 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 27
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 73

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed (3 Wildcats lost A2A)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Ailinglaplap at 133,117
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 27
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 67

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 80
SBD-5 Dauntless x 36
TBF-1 Avenger x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 4 destroyed (9 A2A)
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 3 destroyed (9 A2A)

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 15 destroyed (29 A2A, 17 Ops)
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AV Kiyokawa Maru, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
ACM Tosho Maru, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
ACM Nigitsu Maru, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
AMc Shonan Maru #7, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

The Tojo's are credited with making 19 kills while the Zero's are credited with 12. In watching the replay it was apparent that the 20mm cannons on the Zero were a big factor. Also, because almost all my squadrons had the bounce (because of the stupid altitude routine) the lower durability of the Zero did not prove too bad since in most cases the Zero was doing the diving rather than being dove on.

I really wish I had more ships to send out as sacrifices. This tactic really is getting me the results I want and need. Well, next time I will be prepared and have the sacrificial ships in place!

Anyway, since I have run out of ships, I needed to come up with another method of dealing with the situation. What I am going to try next turn is a split level attack. At Roi-Namur I have 2 formations of 4 Helens each. One formation is set to naval attack at 25k feet (our house rule maximum) and the other formation is set to naval attack at 6k feet. The fighters at Roi-Namur and Kwajalein are set to escort at 25k feet. If the two Helen formations fly at the same time, then half the attack will be down low while the Fighters will be up at 25k feet ready to pounce on any allied fighters going after the low level Helens. OTOH, if only one formation of Helens attacks, then I can kiss off some more fighters. I have duplicated this "split level attack" thing for a group of Helens and Tojo's based at Mili.

I will be interested in seeing how this tactic works out since it can be used in setting up carrier strikes: i.e. Most Kates/Jills set to 6k feet, Judy's set to 12k feet, and one formation of Kates/Jills set to 25k feet and fighters set to 25k feet.

KB has now passed by Truk without running across a sub yet. We have still not cleared the danger zone but I am keeping my fingers crossed. We are now 2 days away from engaging the allied carriers. I am not sure if the allies will try to unload at Ailinglaplap tomorrow, or if they will wait a turn to allow for a full turn for unloading. I have evacuated my air groups from Wotje, Ailinglaplap and Maleolap. I don't want to lose any airgroups and the allies could land on any of those islands this next turn and capture it, wiping out any airgroups based there. For airbases I am using Roi-Namur (size 4), Mili (size 4), and Kwajalein (size 1, fighters only set to escort). Kwajalein and Jailut (size 1) also serve as search bases.






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(in reply to krupp_88mm)
Post #: 547
RE: Gaming the Air Model - 8/22/2010 5:23:50 AM   
bklooste

 

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Tiered escort and caps can work as they do give you more time to rise to their altitude i often use a chutai of some old planes and green pilots since they are toast anyway and green pilots and old air frames cost me nothing. It doesnt allways work but it does help in the bigger fight as they all seem to dive on the chutai and some of your daitais will climb and reposition ( must be some sort of comand roll).

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Post #: 548
Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/22/2010 10:42:52 PM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
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From: Virginia, USA
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Sept. 9, 1943

This turn was a mixed bag, with the allies no doubt facing their share of hair pulling moments, while I was tempted to throw the computer out the window at one point.

Let us take things more or less in order:

First came invasions of Wotje and Maleolap. The CD guns managed to put some serious hurt on the allies. Three allied destroyers are listed as sunk. I would guess that a few of the transport ships were also sunk. (As a side note, during the damage control phase later in the turn, I also heard a sub sink. Apparently, one of my ASW patrol planes scored. This is the third allied sub my ASW planes have sunk as confirmed by the sinking sound.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Wotje

18 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
xAK Iron Prince
PC Travis
xAK Illisos, Shell hits 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
140 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CL Concord
DD Carmick, Shell hits 3, on fire
AKA Bellatrix
DD Ralph Talbot
APA George F. Elliot
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
276 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CL Concord, Shell hits 11
DD Ralph Talbot, Shell hits 4
DD Mugford, Shell hits 8, on fire
APA George F. Elliot
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
28 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
AKA Bellatrix, Shell hits 7, on fire
CL Concord
DD Mugford
DD Ralph Talbot
APA Zeilin, Shell hits 1, on fire
APA George F. Elliot, Shell hits 6, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Maloelap

25 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
xAK Iron Crown
PC Vigilant
xAK Ellaroo, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Iron Knob
xAK Iron Master
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
197 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CL Detroit, Shell hits 8, on fire
DD Mustin, Shell hits 4, on fire
AKA Thuban
DD O'Brien
APA Sheridan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
93 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
DD O'Brien, Shell hits 4, on fire
APA Sheridan
CL Detroit, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
23 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
xAK Ellaroo, heavy fires, heavy damage
PC Vigilant
xAK Iron Crown, Shell hits 4, on fire
xAK Iron Master, Shell hits 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
xAK Iron Crown, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
PC Vigilant
xAK Iron Master, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage

The allies landed 3 regiments on Wotje and 2 on Maleolap. Unfortunately for them, they got a very bad roll at Wotje:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Wotje (135,115)
Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 11285 troops, 219 guns, 220 vehicles, Assault Value = 391
Defending force 2214 troops, 39 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 41

Allied adjusted assault: 62
Japanese adjusted defense: 29

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), leaders(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
283 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 36 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1455 casualties reported
Squads: 45 destroyed, 52 disabled
Non Combat: 36 destroyed, 85 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 26 (7 destroyed, 19 disabled)
Vehicles lost 32 (12 destroyed, 20 disabled)

Assaulting units:
21st Marine Rgt /1
159th(Sep) Infantry Rgt /1
7th Marine Rgt /1
110th Combat Engr Bn /1

Defending units:
Wotje Naval Fortress
Wotje Base Force
47th JNAF AF Unit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Maloelap (136,117)
Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 8774 troops, 188 guns, 90 vehicles, Assault Value = 341
Defending force 3453 troops, 51 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 92

Allied adjusted assault: 50
Japanese adjusted defense: 26 (Almost 2-1!)

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
820 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 27 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 64 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1053 casualties reported
Squads: 19 destroyed, 57 disabled
Non Combat: 64 destroyed, 43 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 15 disabled
Guns lost 32 (21 destroyed, 11 disabled)
Vehicles lost 19 (9 destroyed, 10 disabled)

Assaulting units:
9th Marine Rgt /1
23rd Marine Rgt /1
102nd Combat Engr Rgt /1

Defending units:
44th Naval Guard Unit
Maloelap Naval Fortress
Maloelap Base Force
1st JNAF AF Unit

This result is very, very good for me, and very bad for the allies. First off, it denies bases for LBA to the allies. Also beneficial, from my perspective, is that I now have a hex my fighters can target rather than dealing with the insane escort routine.

Which brings me to my own hair-pulling moment: My "split-level" naval attack did not come off. Instead, only one Helen formation launched a naval attack, meaning the enemy CAP could concentrate at one level, i.e. above mine, and slaughter my escorts. Really, looking at these results one wonders how people can say the air model is just fine. If this modeled reality, no one in WWII would have volunteered to escort a bombing mission except for Kamikaze pilots. Escorts were able to defend themselves, not just soak up the attacks meant for the bombers. Every single allied fighter got a chance to roll on bouncing the escorts. Not once did the escorts get to dive on the allied fighters. Over 130 fighter escorts were only able to shoot down 4 CAP fighters. Tell me that is realistic.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Maloelap at 136,116
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 200 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 63 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 28
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 107
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 3

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 35
F6F-3 Hellcat x 327

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 8 destroyed (13 lost A2A, 1 ops)
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 17 destroyed (32 lost A2A, 2 ops)
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed (2 lost A2A, 3 ops)
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed (2 lost A2A, 3 ops)

Again, at base, the problem here is the altitude/bounce routine. Allied fighters were able to scramble to a higher level than the incoming raid and so every one of the allied fighters got a chance to roll for the bounce, all 350+.

This is why the allied invasions of Wotje and Maleolap are important: I don't need to rely on escorts to attack the enemy CAP. I now have a fixed position that my fighters can LRCAP and engage the enemy on favorable terms.

Fighters from Roi-Namur/Kwajalein are set to LRCAP Wotje at 25k feet while a formation of Helens is set to ground attack Wotje at 10k feet. As the allied fighters dive down to the level of the bombers, they will be bounced by my fighters on LRCAP. I have set up a similar "trap" for Maleolap using fighters and bombers from Mili.

The intent here is to wear down the allied CV CAP before the KB attacks the day after tomorrow. For tomorrow then, I will be doing the LRCAP/ground bombing routine. On the day after, it will be an all-out naval strike. I have fresh formations of Tojo's and Zero's ready to fly in after tomorrow's action. My LBA will then be used as escorts on naval strikes with the intent of disrupting the enemy CAP. If I am a little bit lucky, and plot out the distances correctly, the LBA strikes should arrive before the KB strikes. I plan on positioning the KB 6 hexes away from the allied carriers while the LBA will be striking from between 4-5 hexes. It may not work, but it is my best shot of achieving a victory.

Meanwhile, the KB made it almost all the way to Einewetok without running across any subs. So its position is still a secret (there are no detection levels listed on any of the task forces that make up the KB). Unfortunately, the KB split up into 3 groups, so it needs to be brought back together again. I have seen this happen when using the follow command most often when the group is about to reach its home port. In this case Enewetok is set as the home port for the KB. Chalk it up to an over-anxious desire to reach home.

I will post about the composition of the KB next time.

To bklooste: Thanks for the tip on using green pilots. I realized I was throwing away good bomber pilots on suicide missions when I didn't need to. So I stripped my "bait" Helen formations of their good pilots and filled them up with newbies.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by cap_and_gown -- 8/23/2010 1:13:19 AM >

(in reply to bklooste)
Post #: 549
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/23/2010 12:58:47 AM   
PaxMondo


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C&G:

I'm not expert, but I know that Elf has mentioned and my own playing confirms that numerical superiority is a BIG deal.  You are facing almost 3:1 odds (135:362) in fighters ... IRL you might actually fair worse.  These are Mariana's Turkey shoot type numbers ...

Do you think these odds are explaining your results?

again, I'm not expert.  Just a thought ...

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 8/23/2010 8:35:25 AM >


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Post #: 550
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/23/2010 1:57:56 AM   
aprezto


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Did it seem unrealistic when escorting P-40s and hurricanes were cut down in swathes in the early game against CAPing zeros?

Interesting that he doesn't appear to have bombarded or used the carrier planes to suppress your ground troops. Is this just missing from your excerpts?

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Post #: 551
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/23/2010 2:39:39 AM   
CapAndGown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aprezto

Did it seem unrealistic when escorting P-40s and hurricanes were cut down in swathes in the early game against CAPing zeros?

Interesting that he doesn't appear to have bombarded or used the carrier planes to suppress your ground troops. Is this just missing from your excerpts?


For the escorts it was brutal! Even more than for Hurri's and P-40s was what happened to P-38s. They were creamed when used as escorts. I think every allied player has seen how disappointing P-38s are when escorting. Hurri's never did very well on sweep or escort. I think that is because they are rather slow, but it was much worse when they were used as escorts. On sweep things seemed better for the P-40s, although some P-40 formations were still being eaten alive. That is why we lowered the height limit to 25k. But escorting is just horrible.

No, he is not bombarding or bombing. I assume this is because he does not want to use up ship ammo. He has a lot of subs screening the Solomons. He may be expecting some surface interference from thence. He knows I have some BBs in the Solomons. Also, I doubt he wants to burn up his carrier bombers against ground targets. I know I wouldn't!

(in reply to aprezto)
Post #: 552
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/23/2010 8:28:17 AM   
veji1

 

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you seem to be very very cautious, I suppose the game will tell if you are right, Had I been you I would have loaded all the bases by now with fighters mainly and launched hard... With failed landings, if he has no second wave he might choose to retreat and then you have lost the biggest bestest (sic) opportunity a jap player can dream of that late in the game... I hope I am wrong and that the Samuraï spirit triumphs..

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(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 553
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/25/2010 3:10:29 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
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From: Virginia, USA
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Sept. 10, 1943

It looks like the allies got tired of seeing their ships shot to pieces by my CD guns and finally decided to unload with the battlewagons:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Maloelap at 136,117 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
2 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
BB West Virginia
BB Colorado
BB Maryland

Japanese ground losses:
352 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 10 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 14 (2 destroyed, 12 disabled)

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 12
Port hits 1
Port supply hits 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Wotje at 135,115 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
6 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
BB Mississippi
BB New Mexico
BB Idaho

Japanese ground losses:
88 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

My attempt to get an altitude advantage on the allied CAP was not very successful. First off, only one Helen formation flew, so we did not get the fighters providing LRCAP of Maleolap to contribute to the day's action. On the one mission that did fly, many of our fighters on LRCAP did not get into the fight. The reason for this seems to be that allied radar was able to vector the CAP directly onto the bombers while avoiding the fighters. As a result, only 5 Hellcats were shot down today.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 159th(Sep) Infantry Regiment, at 135,115 (Wotje)
Weather in hex: Clear sky
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 56
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 6

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 24
F6F-3 Hellcat x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 5 destroyed
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed

So what have we achieved? The KB is in position to attack, but the enemy air strength has not been reduced. Thus, the advantage I was hoping to achieve through the use of LBA has not yet materialized. Committing the KB to battle under these circumstances, therefore, seems premature. Just because KB is in position to attack does not mean it has to right away. Certainly, the allies will be sticking around for another few days giving me more opportunities to attrition the allied carrier air power. In addition, the situation has become somewhat murky. Our air search revealed a new group of task forces. I cannot tell if they are coming or going, but the spotting report indicated the CVL Hermes was present. I had thought the British Carriers were in the Indian Ocean, but apparently not. So this adds a new wrinkle to the tactical situation. In addition, the allies spotted at least two of the task forces that make up the KB. So he now knows I have carriers in striking range.

Based on these developments, I will not commit the KB to action next turn. Instead, she will withdraw to the west where she will meet up with a replenishment task force. My LBA in the Marshalls will also stand down one turn in order to reduce fatigue. I wish to see how the allies react to the presence of enemy carriers. I also wish to see what the story is with this report of a British CV. I am also expecting another attack on Wotje. Should the allies capture Wotje this next turn, which seems likely, I will have the opportunity to sweep that base and engage allied fighters while having the sweep bonus work in my favor. Meanwhile, KB will loiter in the area waiting for an opportunity to strike.

I said I would comment on the composition of the KB in my last post. I won't go into too much detail here, just an overview. There are 4 air combat TFs and one surface combat TF. The four ACTFs are set to follow the SCTF around. Each ACTF is limited to 15 ships and has 3 CV and 1 CVL. Each ACTF has between 230-240 AC. They are escorted by 1 BB each, 9 DD, and one CLAA or one Kitikami CL (at this point the Kitikami's actually have more AAA, 444, than the CLAAs, 384). The SCTF is composed of 8 DD and 2 CS. This is a flexible set up such that the BBs can be shifted over to the SCTF should the need arise for a surface action and the CS's switched out. I just did a calculation of the fighter strength of the KB and found that it has 368 fighters available.




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(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 554
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/25/2010 4:29:26 AM   
aprezto


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That is an impressively potent force. This is getting very exciting. I've been waiting for your report for most of the day! With the Brit CVs potentially included this will be a very interesting combat.

Would you consider racing some of those surface forces into the protective umbrella of LBA in order to make another CAP vs escort fighter trap in order to gain the attrition you are after?

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(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 555
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/25/2010 9:10:09 AM   
veji1

 

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You really need to mass up LBA for a 2 turns attack :
- Turn 1 send a massive wave of LBA, regardless of Losses, while having in bases right behind a second round of ammo.
- Turn 2 transfer that second round of LBA to the bases in the frontline and order massive attacks + Commit the KB.

This is the god sent opportunity every japanese player dreams of at that juncture in the game. I am looking forward to the developments...


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Adieu Ô Dieu odieux... signé Adam

(in reply to aprezto)
Post #: 556
RE: Landings at Maloelap and Wotje - 8/25/2010 12:48:11 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
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quote:

I also wish to see what the story is with this report of a British CV.


The map says the Brit CVL is identified as Hermes, a slow and small capacity carrier. The only reasons to include her in a task force in this part of the Pacific are [1] because they are desperate for every bit of air cover they can field or [2] as bait to draw out KB. I think [2] is likely and that Hermes is with a CVE group with the main Allied CV force lurking nearby.

Perhaps you could hit his bombardment BBs without getting KB too close to the Allied CV force? Lots of VP in six BBs!

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 557
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/26/2010 2:15:40 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
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From: Virginia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aprezto

That is an impressively potent force. This is getting very exciting. I've been waiting for your report for most of the day! With the Brit CVs potentially included this will be a very interesting combat.


Mine? Or His? I must say, I am not optimistic about the outcome of a straight up battle since I am out numbered at the moment.

I am currently working on the next turn. I will update this AAR once I have finished the current turn. But it will probably be tomorrow before I am willing to hit the end turn button.

quote:


Would you consider racing some of those surface forces into the protective umbrella of LBA in order to make another CAP vs escort fighter trap in order to gain the attrition you are after?


I thought about this, but have been very hesitant to throw away destroyers since Japan gets so few of them. And needless to say, the DDs that escort the KB around are some of the best that Japan gets; mostly Yagumo's and Kagero's. I would rather throw away SC's, or xAKL's, or AMc's or PB's.

Anyway, I am working on exploiting what I perceive to be a weakness in my opponent's tactics and will explain the events of the last turn and my plans for the next turn in a later post.

Thank you for following this AAR.

(in reply to aprezto)
Post #: 558
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/26/2010 2:55:25 AM   
aprezto


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Well both honestly, but by this time of the war yours is a very impressive Japanese carrier force. You are closer to your home bases, to send damaged ships; and have the advantage of LBA. I would put the odds only slightly in his favour, and as such, it may just be down to the fortunes of war.

Yes, understand the reticense of throwing away some of your best fighting destroyers on a suicide mission, but I'd coin the chess analogy that it isn't a bad thing to lose a pawn or knight to take his queen.

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(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 559
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/26/2010 3:59:38 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aprezto

Yes, understand the reticense of throwing away some of your best fighting destroyers on a suicide mission, but I'd coin the chess analogy that it isn't a bad thing to lose a pawn or knight to take his queen.


So you would really like to have this queen for a night!





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Post #: 560
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/26/2010 10:08:41 PM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
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Sept. 11, 1943

I see this AAR has descended to purveying beefcake. Oookaaay.

Well anyway:

Let's take the turn in order and then discuss my plans for next turn.

During the night the KB ran over a US sub just north of Enewetok. Fortunately, nothing horrible happened:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Eniwetok at 127,107

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
CL Kitakami
DD Onami
DD Yamagumo
DD Hamanami
DD Kiyonami
DD Fujinami

Allied Ships
SS Paddle

A Japanese sub also ran across the Long Island and fired 6 torpedoes at it. Despite the Long Island being such a slow ship, none of the torpedoes hit:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Maloelap at 139,116

Japanese Ships
SS RO-61

Allied Ships
CVE Long Island
DD Meredith

SS RO-61 launches 6 torpedoes at CVE Long Island


A Japanese bombardment force moving into position to bombard Merauke also ran across a US sub. This was rather unfortunate as I was hoping to avoid having this force spotted. During the day turn, allied search AC did not spot it, so I don't know what witpqs will make of the fact that his sub ran into some of my ships just north of the Kai Islands. Maybe he will think they are heading towards Darwin. At any rate, the bombardment will go ahead as planned.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Kai-eilanden at 82,114

Japanese Ships
E Otori
CA Atago
E Sagi
DD Kikuzuki
DD Ushio
DD Akebono

Allied Ships
SS Halibut

SS Halibut launches 6 torpedoes at E Otori

Now to more interesting action:
It turned out I picked a bad turn to stand down my fighters. The allies chose to try a bombing mission this turn against both Wotje and Maleolap. If I had had fighters on LRCAP over those bases, I would have had the perfect opportunity to get the bounce on a bunch of allied CV AC since they all came in about about 10k feet. Rats!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Maloelap Naval Fortress, at 136,117 (Maloelap)
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 8
F4F-4 Wildcat x 13
FM-1 Wildcat x 4
F6F-3 Hellcat x 48
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Maloelap Naval Fortress, at 136,117 (Maloelap)
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid spotted at 27 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2
FM-1 Wildcat x 6
F6F-3 Hellcat x 50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Maloelap Naval Fortress, at 136,117 (Maloelap)
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid spotted at 46 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 6
FM-1 Wildcat x 10
F6F-3 Hellcat x 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Maloelap Naval Fortress, at 136,117 (Maloelap)
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid spotted at 35 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 15
FM-1 Wildcat x 12
F6F-3 Hellcat x 10
TBF-1 Avenger x 8 bombers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Wotje Naval Fortress, at 135,115 (Wotje)
Weather in hex: Clear sky
Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 12
FM-1 Wildcat x 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Wotje Naval Fortress, at 135,115 (Wotje)
Weather in hex: Clear sky
Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 20
F6F-3 Hellcat x 10
TBF-1 Avenger x 9 bombers

There are a few things about this raid that I find interesting, besides the fact that I missed out on a golden opportunity to get the bounce on allied fighters. First, why so few bombers? Second, at least some British fighters are confirmed as being present, though not, apparently, the majority of the British CV force. Third, why a morning attack and not afternoon? This last question may answer the first question: these bombers were given a primary mission of ground attack rather than being set to having a primary mission of naval attack with a secondary of ground attack. I wonder why witpqs would do that?

The bombing did not accomplish much and the allies did not follow it up with a ground assault. What it did accomplish is to run up the fatigue of the allied fighters and that is to my advantage.

PLANS

Very interestingly, the allies did not react to the spotting of the Japanese CVs. The fleet carriers maintained their exact same position they have held for the past few days. They are obviously there to provide CAP for the invasion forces. Yet even Spruance at Saipan was not this tied down in guarding the invasion. In addition, the task forces that were spotted yesterday east of the Marshalls did not move much either. They appear to have just moved one hex to the southeast. I am stumped as to what they are doing. Maybe they carry the planes that are meant to be landed on Wotje and Maleolap once those bases are captured.

At any rate, the allies apparent predilection for not moving their task forces around opens up the possibility for an attack on one part of their overall fleet instead of the entire shebang. I was going to gas up the KB and then await developments. But I have decided to try to exploit this apparent weakness in the allied doctrine.

For tomorrow, I have ordered the KB to move to a position 8 hexes northwest of Wotje. I have also set the AC in the KB to a max range of 8 hexes. If, tomorrow, the invasion forces, including the CVEs, are still at Wotje, it is my hope that the KB will launch a strike against just those forces and not any others. To support this strike, I have 4 sentai's of Tojo's and 3 sentai's of Zero's set to 100% LRCAP with a target of Wotje. At 8 hexes, the KB should be able to launch (though there is no guarantee) while the allied CVEs will be unable to launch. (According to michaelm, the max strike range for japanese carrier AC is 8 hexes, while for the allies it is 7 hexes.) The allied fleet carriers will be 9 hexes away (assuming they don't move) and so unable to strike.

That anyway, is the plan. It depends on the allies not moving their task forces around. It is also dependent on actually being able to launch from 8 hexes, which I am not sure will happen since my experience has shown that a strike from that range will frequently not launch.

Should this prove successful, we should be able sink a number of the allied CVEs and then retreat the KB back out of range and have it refuel to await further developments.





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(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 561
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/26/2010 11:51:43 PM   
aprezto


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Does this approach not contradict your goal of confronting and heavily damaging the US carriers as first target, and instead damage your attack ACs against whatever defends Wotje?

I kind of like the approach, but it just seems to contradict your previous goal is all.

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(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 562
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/27/2010 2:00:48 AM   
krupp_88mm


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Joined: 10/13/2008
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quote:

Does this approach not contradict your goal of confronting and heavily damaging the US carriers as first target, and instead damage your attack ACs against whatever defends Wotje?

I kind of like the approach, but it just seems to contradict your previous goal is all.

you sound like president Lincoln trying to get George McClellan to go and fight.. lol



< Message edited by krupp_88mm -- 8/27/2010 2:04:51 AM >

(in reply to aprezto)
Post #: 563
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/27/2010 2:22:01 AM   
krupp_88mm


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seems hes overstacking his carriers with fighters in hopes of attriting your carrier air


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Post #: 564
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/27/2010 2:52:50 AM   
aprezto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: krupp_88mm

seems hes overstacking his carriers with fighters in hopes of attriting your carrier air




Not sure he needs to be overstacking we are in late 43... He'll have about 12 fleet carriers and half a doz or so CVLs and who knows how many CVEs.

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Post #: 565
JFK no more lucky in AE than IRL - 8/27/2010 3:44:16 AM   
CapAndGown


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Sept. 12, 1943

My plan worked.

quote:

ORIGINAL: aprezto

Does this approach not contradict your goal of confronting and heavily damaging the US carriers as first target, and instead damage your attack ACs against whatever defends Wotje?

I kind of like the approach, but it just seems to contradict your previous goal is all.


I had the opportunity to strike at the allies without them striking back. While we paid a steep price in carrier AC and pilots, sinking 1 BB, 2-3 CL/CLAA, 3 CVE, and numerous AKA/APA along with the troops on board without suffering any ship losses ourselves was, I believe, a good move.

More on that in a moment: First though, I thought I would mention that PT 109 was sunk today in our raid against Merauke:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Merauke at 89,124, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Takao
CA Atago
CA Chokai
CL Oyodo
DD Akebono
DD Ushio
DD Kikuzuki
E Otori
E Hato
E Sagi
E Kamo

Allied Ships
PT-62
PT-63
PT-107, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-109, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-110, Shell hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Merauke at 89,124

Allied aircraft losses
PBY-5 Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground
P-39N1 Airacobra: 1 destroyed on ground
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed on ground

Japanese Ships
CA Chokai
CA Atago
CA Takao
CL Oyodo
DD Kikuzuki
DD Ushio
DD Akebono
E Sagi
E Hato
E Otori

Allied ground losses:
167 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 9 disabled
Vehicles lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 33
Port hits 16
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 4

Now on to the main action!

This is the main strike in the morning Generally, we did very well with coordination, with only a few broken raids coming in late. I will not post those since none of them got through.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Wotje at 135,115
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 70
A6M5 Zero x 80
A6M5b Zero x 16
B5N2 Kate x 36
B6N1 Jill x 67
B6N2 Jill x 21
D4Y1 Judy x 196
D4Y3 Judy x 11
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 39

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 4
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4
F4F-4 Wildcat x 73
F6F-3 Hellcat x 193 Mary, Mother of God!

Allied Ships
CVE Sangamon, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Suwannee, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CVE Chenango, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
BB New Mexico, Bomb hits 6, on fire
BB Mississippi, Bomb hits 5, on fire
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
CL Concord
CL Nashville
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CLAA Reno, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CLAA Oakland, Torpedo hits 1
DD Renshaw
DD Ringgold
DD Saufley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Spence, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
DD Radford, Bomb hits 1
DD Laffey, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Ralph Talbot, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Carmick

APA Zeilin, Bomb hits 3, on fire
APA George F. Elliot, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
AKA Libra, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

xAK Adelong, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
xAK Echunga, Bomb hits 1
xAK Macedon, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Dardanus, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Iron Warrior, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Tambua, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Dilga, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
xAK Dundula, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

AM Exploit
AM Dynamic
AM Firm, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
AM Force, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
PC Travis, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Chenango
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB New Mexico
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Adelong
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Macedon
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Sangamon
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Suwannee
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Laffey
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Ralph Talbot
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Arizona
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring AM Force
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Spence
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Wotje at 135,115
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40
A6M3a Zero x 17
A6M5b Zero x 14
A6M5c Zero x 14
D4Y1 Judy x 35
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 114

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 2
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2
F4F-4 Wildcat x 61
F6F-3 Hellcat x 135

Allied Ships
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CLAA Reno, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Chenango, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Arizona
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CLAA Reno
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Chenango


Here is the major raid in the afternoon Notice that the allies suffered a number of ground unit casualties. More on that in a minute. Also note the absence of any BBs or CVEs. One of the BBs and all three CVEs, I am fairly sure, were sunk. But where did the other CLAAs and BBs go? They may have been split off into an escort TF, but wouldn't that still be in the same hex? Certainly, 500kg bombs are not going to sink a BB unless the fires were totally out of control, which I doubt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Wotje at 135,115
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 37
A6M3a Zero x 100
A6M5 Zero x 25
A6M5b Zero x 9
B5N2 Kate x 33
B6N1 Jill x 5
B6N2 Jill x 18
D4Y1 Judy x 86
D4Y3 Judy x 11

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 4
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2
F4F-4 Wildcat x 23
F6F-3 Hellcat x 143

Allied Ships
CL Nashville, Bomb hits 2
CL Concord, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage

APA Leonard Wood, Bomb hits 1, on fire
APA J. Franklin Bell, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires
APA W.A. Holbrook, Bomb hits 1

SC PC-776
AM Dynamic, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
AM Exploit, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Dardanus, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Aeon, Bomb hits 1

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring APA J. Franklin Bell
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring a Luckenbach Cargo class xAK
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CL Concord

Allied ground losses:
73 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Besides my own attack on the allied task forces at Wotje, the allies again launched small bombing raids against both Wotje and Maleolap. I was surprised to see that I had a CAP up over Maleolap since everyone had been order to LRCAP Wotje. I guess this was spill over CAP from Wotje. Our LRCAP ended up shooting down all the Avengers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Wotje Naval Fortress, at 135,115 (Wotje)
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 44
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 54

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 1
F4F-3 Wildcat x 5
F4F-4 Wildcat x 19
F6F-3 Hellcat x 37
TBF-1 Avenger x 9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Maloelap Naval Fortress, at 136,117 (Maloelap)
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 38

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 8
FM-1 Wildcat x 9
TBF-1 Avenger x 8

I mentioned that the allied troop losses were interesting. That is because witpqs had pulled out some of the regiments he landed on both Wotje and Maleolap. He has left behind 1 regiment and 1 combat engineer unit on each atoll. I assume he did this because of the supply problems he was having, as indicated by his posting in the main forum. Turns out he picked the wrong turn to pull them out of Wotje since many of them ended up drowning!

Over all, the toll in allied ships was quite heavy. The intelligence screen only hints at the total number of allied ships lost today. More will be showing up as the days go by. I count the day's operation a success, although the KB will now need to retire and rebuild its air groups. On a note related to that, the CV Aso arrived today and the Ikuma will arrive in 4 more days. Thus, the KB is about to be augmented by 3 more CVs and 2 more CVLs.






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< Message edited by cap_and_gown -- 8/27/2010 5:15:09 PM >

(in reply to aprezto)
Post #: 566
The butcher's bill - 8/27/2010 3:50:51 AM   
CapAndGown


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Here is the butcher's bill for today's air actions.





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Post #: 567
RE: The butcher's bill - 8/27/2010 3:54:47 AM   
jonreb31


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From: Santa Cruz, California
Status: offline
Very exciting. I think it was a good attack plan on your part. How many pilots did you lose? I hope you have a reserve of pilots that aren't rookies to refill your air groups, those are some heavy air losses.

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Post #: 568
RE: Escorts as Kamikazes - 8/27/2010 4:02:48 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aprezto


Not sure he needs to be overstacking we are in late 43... He'll have about 12 fleet carriers and half a doz or so CVLs and who knows how many CVEs.


Currently, the allies have 10 CVs and 3 CVLs. Not sure how many CVEs. At least 3 fewer after last turn.

(in reply to aprezto)
Post #: 569
RE: The butcher's bill - 8/27/2010 4:10:13 AM   
krupp_88mm


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Joined: 10/13/2008
Status: offline
id say it was well worth it, especially since you got those transports with their pants down, be careful though he probably thinks KB is weak now in air units, and probably mad for revenge he just might charge you

(in reply to jonreb31)
Post #: 570
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