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RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/8/2010 3:14:23 AM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Actually, with the tanks basically blind except to the forward view and no chance to see an enemy outside that view, I would think turret facing control to some extent would be important.  Espcially with a game that thrives on platoon orders and formations.



Tanks aren't blind. They just see better in front of them than they do to the sides or behind them. Like in real life.

A lot of thought and testing went into what tanks could and could not see. Better that you are not buttoned up.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 31
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/8/2010 3:16:10 AM   
Pford

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chorlto

There are times when a platoon is travelling in column where I like to have each second tank concentrating to the left or right of the direction of travel. That is the first tank looking front right quarter, second tank left front quater, third tank right front quarter etc.


Trying to picture this, Chorlto. But the image keeps coming up a bit fruity.

(in reply to Beany)
Post #: 32
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/8/2010 3:27:31 AM   
junk2drive


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pford


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chorlto

There are times when a platoon is travelling in column where I like to have each second tank concentrating to the left or right of the direction of travel. That is the first tank looking front right quarter, second tank left front quater, third tank right front quarter etc.


Trying to picture this, Chorlto. But the image keeps coming up a bit fruity.



In Steel Panthers it is possible, and desirable, but that is a IGOUGO Opfire game with hexes and one unit moves at a time.

(in reply to Pford)
Post #: 33
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/8/2010 3:32:21 PM   
thewood1

 

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Status: offline 		IRL, tanks in a combat area are supposed to travel the way Chorlto described.  Even in WW2, its SOP for a platoon to travel with weapons slewed to cover specific areas.

What I thought Eric said earlier is that a tank was blind to its back 180 deg.  So there is a chance to spot a tank to the rear?

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 34
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/8/2010 4:28:58 PM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1
IRL, tanks in a combat area are supposed to travel the way Chorlto described.  Even in WW2, its SOP for a platoon to travel with weapons slewed to cover specific areas.
The Germans traveled somewhat like that. It made some of the crew a little uncomfortable as the gun was directly over either the driver's hatch or the hull gunner's hatch.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1
What I thought Eric said earlier is that a tank was blind to its back 180 deg.  So there is a chance to spot a tank to the rear?
It's been changed a bit in PCO. There is a chance to spot to the rear or sides.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 35
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/8/2010 7:31:20 PM   
Pford

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

IRL, tanks in a combat area are supposed to travel the way Chorlto described.  Even in WW2, its SOP for a platoon to travel with weapons slewed to cover specific areas.


Photographic evidence? E.g., http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/340764-1/Panzer
Even if true, the game would require some kind of Cover Arc provision a la CM in order to reflect this policy.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 36
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/8/2010 7:59:38 PM   
Ron

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pford

Photographic evidence? E.g., http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/340764-1/Panzer
Even if true, the game would require some kind of Cover Arc provision a la CM in order to reflect this policy.



Take a closer look at those barrels, they are in travel mode - no enemy expected.

(in reply to Pford)
Post #: 37
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/9/2010 12:19:48 AM   
Beany

 

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Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks everyone for their replies. I would have liked to have had control over the direction of my turrets as it is nice to maintain turret locked on a position whilst manuveuring buts it no game breaker from my point of view. Your opponent is in the same position and tanks aren't blind to the sides and rear so I can live with the limitation. as I said you have all done a fantastic job of improving the PC series and I really cannot wait to get my hands on the update. Are we there yet?!

(in reply to Ron)
Post #: 38
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/9/2010 12:32:30 AM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

What I thought Eric said earlier is that a tank was blind to its back 180 deg.  So there is a chance to spot a tank to the rear?


That was PC:OWS and PC:K. PCO has limited vision in 360 degrees.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 39
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/9/2010 12:35:48 AM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chorlto

Are we there yet?!


No, but we're closer then we were before.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Beany)
Post #: 40
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/9/2010 1:38:21 AM   
Beany

 

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Status: offline 		This is an interesting web page that shows the orientation of panzer turrets in attack formation.

http://www.hq.wwiionline.com/articles/german_attack_doc.shtml


(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 41
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/9/2010 2:25:43 AM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		What that site doesn't do is to list any sources at all. Are those WWII tactics or modern tactics overlaid to WWII?

When I go looking at all the photos I have of WWII tanks they show just what your photo showed. Tanks with their guns pointed straight forward. For all nations.

The drawings of the tanks with their turrets positioned to side shows tank 3 with it's turret turned to the rear quarter of the tank. No tanker I know of would advance with the back or side of his turret to the enemy.



I even looked to see if the Soviets might have done this. I have "Soviet Armored Tactics in World War II: Red Army Armor Tactics from Individual Vehicle  to Company from the Combat Regulations 1944" by Charles C. Sharp. While the book goes into great detail about every aspect of lower level tactics it never once mentions a clock position for tank turrets in movement to combat formations.


I think this is a tactic that has developed since WWII as I can find no evidence of it in any of my materials. I'd be happy to have you give examples of this tactic during WWII though it would make a great addition to the game if it was actually used.

Good Hunting.

MR





_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Beany)
Post #: 42
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/9/2010 2:37:35 AM   
thewood1

 

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Status: offline 		Hate to pull another panzer truppen on you, but I know there is a reference in there about various formations and where they are supposed to be spotted.  Keep in mind its only with combat immenent.  Most pictures have everyone jaunting down the road in travel formation or some massed propaganda charge.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 43
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/9/2010 2:41:18 AM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		You remember which volume or have a page number reference?

I don't mind having others find things I've missed. That's part of the fun of doing research. To see what you can find....whoever finds it.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 44
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/9/2010 2:47:27 AM   
Mobius


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Trying to read more into this than I should. The tank with the gun that's a cross is the platoon CO and the tanks with the gun that's a line may be the section COs.




Should give reference.
Panzertaktik
German Small-Unit Armor Tactics. Wolfgang Schneider.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mobius -- 9/9/2010 2:55:29 AM >

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 45
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/9/2010 2:49:27 AM   
thewood1

 

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Status: offline 		It was volume 1, and similar diagram to above, but showing echelon formation.

(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 46
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/9/2010 3:09:53 AM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		Possibly the lack of photos could be the very limited time that this formation would be employed.  Only from the time the tanks would advance on the enemy positions. During travel in secured areas they would travel with the guns either in the travel locks or straight ahead. In a tactical situation as soon as fire was directed at them they would face the enemy.

So, we are talking a very limited amount of time. I'll see if I can find the diagram.

It appears from Charles Sharp's book that the Soviets weren't worried about it as there were no references to turret positions in that book, which was taken from their combat regulations.

Good Hunting.

MR




_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 47
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/9/2010 3:22:05 AM   
Mobius


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Status: offline 		Reading a book on combat between MK IVs and T-34s. Waiting in ambush these MK IVs see the T-34s in groups of 4 to 6 coming on in column with their turrets all facing the same way, forward. If they hit them from the sides, the turrets again are all facing forward.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 48
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/10/2010 1:54:27 PM   
Ron

 

Posts: 506
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Status: offline 		I think the turret position is a separate issue from the LOS responsibility of a defined sector which the above diagram clearly shows. I don't think anyone can argue this wasn't practiced. In my mind anyways CM's solution was an elegant and simple one to facilitate the observation of specific areas whether for armor or infantry.


(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 49
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/10/2010 2:07:31 PM   
junk2drive


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Status: offline 		Keep in mind that some design decisions are made based on whether or not the AI can use a feature. Gameplay comes first, then AI ability, then engine limitations.

(in reply to Ron)
Post #: 50
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/23/2010 4:56:31 AM   
Enigma6584

 

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Status: offline 		What is the largest size one can have with respect to opposing forces?  Company vs company, battalion vs battalion?

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Post #: 51
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/23/2010 5:49:08 AM   
junk2drive


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Status: offline 		Since there is no command structure, you can have as many platoons as you wish to crowd the map with and hope that your computer can process it. Typically I play with the equivalent of 3-4 companies of troops and 10-20 AFVs, roughly a battalion.

(in reply to Enigma6584)
Post #: 52
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/23/2010 9:42:44 PM   
Enigma6584

 

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Status: offline 		Excellent. Thanks for the reply. I'm definately getting more interested in this. May I ask why no command structure?

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Post #: 53
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/23/2010 10:01:05 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		Hi RedCharlie65,

The way Panzer Command is designed, it basically puts you in the role of the Company Commander. The orders system is designed to represent what you could reasonably communicate to each platoon commander during a turn and your orders are based around the platoon as the base unit for orders. You can also give orders to each individual tank or squad, within the limits of the base order for that platoon, but issuing orders by platoon with some tweaks down to the tank or squad level is encouraged and also helps things move along fairly quickly.

As a result, there's no formal command structure, but the model of command is built into the game design itself. Platoons do have their own structure though and many things are resolved at the platoon level - we track the platoon commander, platoon morale, platoon orders, etc. There are plans for the future releases in the series to go up to the battalion level and add an additional company command layer with a more defined structure, but that's still just a plan at this point.

Regards,

- Erik

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(in reply to Enigma6584)
Post #: 54
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/26/2010 10:34:59 PM   
Enigma6584

 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Erik.  Again, your game is looking superb.  Very much on my "purchase" list.  One other thing If I may ask; I'm assuming that if sales go well and you continue to support this product and construct add-ons, will there be additional forces to command?  I'm referring to Finnish forces, Rumanians, Italians, Hungarians on the eastern front?  One of the things I very much enjoyed with the old combat mission game was the ability to play these forces and simulate the engagements they partook in.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 55
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 9/27/2010 7:38:46 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Modders can add any units to the game. This is not like the CM game system where the units were hard coded and all you could do to make new units was to put a different texture over the old one. The base values stayed the same in CM. In PC you can make entire new units and put them in the game as mods.

Whether Matrix does that or a modder it wouldn't matter. Matrix wouldn't have to do it and that's what opens PC up to all kinds of different avenues.

Hope this answers your question.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Enigma6584)
Post #: 56
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 10/16/2010 1:36:58 AM   
Eagle Strike


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Status: offline 		I wasn't sure where to post this but does anyone know if there will be an option to buy the new game manual for PC Ostfront? I'm asking for those that already own PC Kharkov?

Even an option to download the new manual would be great but would prefer the original hard copy.

_____________________________

Thx,
Eagle Strike (aka Reddog)

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 57
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 10/16/2010 2:33:40 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The game will come with a complete set of manuals as a pdf's. Not sure if you can just order one.

If you are a modder of any sort READ THE PCK MANUAL!!!!!!!!!!! It's the bible on how to make changes in the game. Other than making structure, infantry or vehicle mods of course. But you guys know what you're doing already and if you don't you need a little 1on1 time with either Stridor, Mobius, Spellir, Junk 2 Drive or JMass. They can get you going in the right direction. Don't call me. I'll just look at you with that 1000 yard stare.

Good Hunting.

MR 

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/16/2010 2:37:08 AM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Eagle Strike)
Post #: 58
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 11/4/2010 9:08:49 AM   
diablo1

 

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quote:


Yes, this means that if you want you can play with 60 Second Turns with no Reaction Phase and always have access to the full Orders menu at the start of each Turn.


YESSSSSS!

quote:

Individual infantry casualties to show step losses, with fallen soldiers remaining on the battlefield


DOUBLE YESSSSSSS!

quote:

Panzer VI Tiger II (King Tiger)


OMG I CAN'T WAIT YESSSSSS!

quote:

60+ Preset Historical Scenarios (including stand-alone and campaign battles)


I didn't see any Factory Works scenarios ala Squad Leader game?

All n alll though I can hardly wait but I've been waiting over 2-1/2 years for this please hurry up.


(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 59
RE: Panzer Command: Ostfront Full Feature List - 12/2/2010 6:05:38 PM   
Yoozername

 

Posts: 1121
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline 		I have a couple quick questions:

1. Are the Soviet platoons modeled as 3-4 AFV units? So, for example, a 10 tank Soviet company would be modeled as two 3 tank platoons and one 4 tank platoons?

2. The variable time and use of reaction phases...is this symetrical? Meaning if its changed, it is equally changed for both sides? Could one side have a different setting is what I am asking.


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 60
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