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radar detection bug - 9/6/2010 7:24:23 PM   
Sly

 

Posts: 91
Joined: 9/1/2010
Status: offline 		After last patch (july 2010) ground radars looks crippeld.
I play Grand Campaign (scen.1) H2H about 60 turns august -september 1942.
None of allied ground radars british or usa can detected any raid.
Raids are spotted, not detected. I now about experience test of early radars but any radar after 60 turns??? Naval radars - air search radar on allies ships - works good, so any detection of raids in my game make this radars. Can someone confirm this?? Please test it.
Post #: 1
RE: radar detection bug - 9/7/2010 4:46:57 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		I went back and checked a bunch of old combat reports. I am PBEM Aug 42 Patch g. In all I checked the report says spotted not detected. I dont know if that is indicitive of an issue, or that merely is the current language. many of the air raids I randomly checked were detected up to 44 miles away. can't tell if we are WAD on this or not.

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Andy M

(in reply to Sly)
Post #: 2
RE: radar detection bug - 9/7/2010 7:34:09 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		I´m in 7/43 now in my PBEM and neither the Japanese nor the Allied land based radar has ever detected something, no matter if it´s a 100 4E bomber strike or a 50 fighter sweep. Pre warning times for the airstrikes usually is 5-10 min for both sides. It doesn´t matter how many radar sets we stack into a base, nothing gets ever detected, therefore usually 70% of your fighters are sitting idle on the ground. I´m currently fighting with 400 fighters at a base and get something like 75 into the air while having a dozen Improved CH radar at the base. US land based radar is no different.

Seaborne radar so far always worked as these sets seem to never fail while land based radar always fails. Seems a bit strange to see land based radar failing all the time in my PBEM so I can definetely support the original poster.

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Post #: 3
RE: radar detection bug - 9/7/2010 12:08:18 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		I think that this might be a logic fall-thru.

Land radar is checked first and then visual check. I am guessing that after the radar it is doing the visual check overriding the radar 'detect' flag.

This was raised in Dev Forum recently too, but it looked okay. But looks can be deceiving.


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Michael

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Post #: 4
RE: radar detection bug - 9/7/2010 12:49:00 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		That's a big one! Thanks.

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 5
RE: radar detection bug - 9/7/2010 4:05:56 PM   
Sly

 

Posts: 91
Joined: 9/1/2010
Status: offline
No doubt there is a bug. Players like Castor Troy nows what it means. Ohers - trust me its big issu.
So Castor - You are the one who resolved pre-cap flak bug. Is where any way  to  attention  WitP Air Team  to  resolve this problem???

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 6
RE: radar detection bug - 9/7/2010 4:20:36 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sly

No doubt there is a bug. Players like Castor Troy nows what it means. Ohers - trust me its big issu.
So Castor - You are the one who resolved pre-cap flak bug. Is where any way  to  attention  WitP Air Team  to  resolve this problem???



I refer you to the posting 3 back.

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Michael

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Post #: 7
RE: radar detection bug - 9/7/2010 4:21:41 PM   
Omat


Posts: 2414
Joined: 8/18/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sly

Is where any way  to  attention  WitP Air Team  to  resolve this problem???



michaelm posted here in this thread .... he ìs from the WitP AE Air Team and did some programming...


< Message edited by Omat -- 9/7/2010 4:22:10 PM >

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(in reply to Sly)
Post #: 8
RE: radar detection bug - 9/7/2010 5:20:17 PM   
Sly

 

Posts: 91
Joined: 9/1/2010
Status: offline 		Ok, now i know who is Michael. Lets wait. Greetings

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Post #: 9
RE: radar detection bug - 9/7/2010 11:11:40 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Micheal any chance a hot fix is coming for this? Thanks for the continuing work on this game!

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Post #: 10
RE: radar detection bug - 9/7/2010 11:45:34 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		FWIW, this may be a transient error.  I'm playing Scen 2 v AI June '43, my last 8 saved turns all show at least 1 Raid Detected By Radar in the combat logs.

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Post #: 11
RE: radar detection bug - 9/8/2010 2:14:07 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Micheal any chance a hot fix is coming for this? Thanks for the continuing work on this game!


There are others - like the Attack Bombers not bombing (strafe only) until next patch. Maybe a hotfix for just the radar isn't such a good idea.

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 12
RE: radar detection bug - 9/8/2010 2:17:35 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		Hmm. I was wondering why my radar was not spotting raids earlier. Pre-patch I was getting spots as far as 120 NM away using Ta-Chi 7 radars. Since the patch, I have never had a spot further than 40 NM away. I thought I was just getting bad die rolls. But Micheal's comments now make me wonder if there is a bug.

And yes, if there is a bug, a hotfix would be great. I am tired of my AC sitting on the ground instead of responding to an incoming raid. Especially after going to the trouble of getting all those modern radar sets in place.

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 13
RE: radar detection bug - 9/8/2010 9:15:54 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sly

No doubt there is a bug. Players like Castor Troy nows what it means. Ohers - trust me its big issu.
So Castor - You are the one who resolved pre-cap flak bug. Is where any way  to  attention  WitP Air Team  to  resolve this problem???




I wasn´t the one who resolved the pre cap flak issue, I was one of many that complained about the effect of pre cap flak and it was TheElf and michaelm (sorry if I´ve missed someone else) who nailed a bug in this routine. I try to invest a lot of energy in helping to point out things and to identify bugs if possible but usually I´m only one of many. I´m probably one of the loudest screamers but there are many many others helping in a more silent way.

But yes, I do think land based radar got an issue because I just can´t see the reason why land based radar should fail in my PBEM probably 99.9% of the time from 12/41 until 7/43, while sea based radar just works great with more or less never failing. And as michaelm already pointed out, the guys are looking at it so keep your fingers crossed, I´m sure they will do their best as always.

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Post #: 14
RE: radar detection bug - 9/8/2010 4:46:51 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Had all my recent land raids "spotted". The one sea raid was "detected".

Cheers.

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"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 15
RE: radar detection bug - 9/8/2010 9:17:48 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I think that this might be a logic fall-thru.

Land radar is checked first and then visual check. I am guessing that after the radar it is doing the visual check overriding the radar 'detect' flag.

This was raised in Dev Forum recently too, but it looked okay. But looks can be deceiving.



While I understand the fall-thru the rather significant skew seems to indicate that there is something amiss with the radar.

Due to the fall-thru, if both radar and observers detect the raid the indication will be that observers and not radar detected the raid. HOWEVER if only the radar detects it there would be no fall-thru and we would see a radar detection indication. Unless the radar detection probablity @ range is always less than observer detection probability there should be at least one instance of a radar detection with no observer detection. However if there is no one has reported seeing it.

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 16
RE: radar detection bug - 9/8/2010 10:08:00 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I think that this might be a logic fall-thru.

Land radar is checked first and then visual check. I am guessing that after the radar it is doing the visual check overriding the radar 'detect' flag.

This was raised in Dev Forum recently too, but it looked okay. But looks can be deceiving.



While I understand the fall-thru the rather significant skew seems to indicate that there is something amiss with the radar.

Due to the fall-thru, if both radar and observers detect the raid the indication will be that observers and not radar detected the raid. HOWEVER if only the radar detects it there would be no fall-thru and we would see a radar detection indication. Unless the radar detection probablity @ range is always less than observer detection probability there should be at least one instance of a radar detection with no observer detection. However if there is no one has reported seeing it.


Unless the fall through meant that visual info was always over-writing the radar results...

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 17
RE: radar detection bug - 9/8/2010 11:58:06 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I think that this might be a logic fall-thru.

Land radar is checked first and then visual check. I am guessing that after the radar it is doing the visual check overriding the radar 'detect' flag.

This was raised in Dev Forum recently too, but it looked okay. But looks can be deceiving.



While I understand the fall-thru the rather significant skew seems to indicate that there is something amiss with the radar.

Due to the fall-thru, if both radar and observers detect the raid the indication will be that observers and not radar detected the raid. HOWEVER if only the radar detects it there would be no fall-thru and we would see a radar detection indication. Unless the radar detection probablity @ range is always less than observer detection probability there should be at least one instance of a radar detection with no observer detection. However if there is no one has reported seeing it.


Unless the fall through meant that visual info was always over-writing the radar results...

But that is the point. Per michaelm it will always overwrite it as long as both radar and observers get a successful detection. If only the radar gets a detection there would be no overwrite. It seems that at least once the radar should detect and the observers miss entirely, for example in a storm or low clouds. But I have yet to see it happen.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 18
RE: radar detection bug - 9/9/2010 12:23:58 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		I'm suggesting that his wording might not have been intended to be exact. He'll sort it out.

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 19
RE: radar detection bug - 9/13/2010 2:39:26 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		bump

sorry michaelm to be the usual pain in the a$$ but can you give us a short update about it? Is there anything going to be fixed/changed in the (hopefully soon to come ) patch?

thanks

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Post #: 20
RE: radar detection bug - 9/13/2010 2:50:48 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		It may be part of the DATA patch (which was not originally going to be code, but this may change just for this one fix) when it comes up.

I have left it with Joe W to determine.


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Michael

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Post #: 21
RE: radar detection bug - 9/13/2010 2:54:06 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

It may be part of the DATA patch (which was not originally going to be code, but this may change just for this one fix) when it comes up.

I have left it with Joe W to determine.




thanks for the info

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Post #: 22
RE: radar detection bug - 9/13/2010 4:44:19 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

It may be part of the DATA patch (which was not originally going to be code, but this may change just for this one fix) when it comes up.

I have left it with Joe W to determine.



I'm confused with the terms code patch and data patch, would either of these require a restart?

Thanks for the help Micheal!

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Post #: 23
RE: radar detection bug - 9/13/2010 5:47:04 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

It may be part of the DATA patch (which was not originally going to be code, but this may change just for this one fix) when it comes up.

I have left it with Joe W to determine.



Honestly, Michael, the fact that a lot of us have many squadrons of Attack Bombers that don't work is pretty big, too.

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 24
RE: radar detection bug - 9/13/2010 5:56:57 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

It may be part of the DATA patch (which was not originally going to be code, but this may change just for this one fix) when it comes up.

I have left it with Joe W to determine.



Honestly, Michael, the fact that a lot of us have many squadrons of Attack Bombers that don't work is pretty big, too.



mhm... and many of us are in mid 43 already in their PBEMs, have forgotten (or didn´t notice) to stop the B-25C factory to upgrade to the B-25D1 and are now stuck with more or less non working types of bombers...

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Post #: 25
RE: radar detection bug - 9/13/2010 11:37:55 PM   
stuman


Posts: 3907
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline 		Thanks as always Michael.

( But as one who usually plays the Japanese side, it is ok with me if the Attack Bombers still have some work to be done. No hurry there )

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Post #: 26
RE: radar detection bug - 9/14/2010 2:37:40 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

Thanks as always Michael.

( But as one who usually plays the Japanese side, it is ok with me if the Attack Bombers still have some work to be done. No hurry there )


+1

(radar, OTOH . . . )


(in reply to stuman)
Post #: 27
RE: radar detection bug - 9/14/2010 6:12:00 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

I'm confused with the terms code patch and data patch, would either of these require a restart?



Patches that REQUIRE a restart are very rare ... we've never done one for WITP or for AE ... and I don't think our predecessors did any for WITP either. And we have no intention of doing one either.



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Post #: 28
RE: radar detection bug - 9/14/2010 7:34:43 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

I'm confused with the terms code patch and data patch, would either of these require a restart?



Patches that REQUIRE a restart are very rare ... we've never done one for WITP or for AE ... and I don't think our predecessors did any for WITP either. And we have no intention of doing one either.





I guess he meant "require a restart to have the data base changes happening for an ongoing game". While it´s great how it´s done now, weren´t most WITP patches done in a way that required a restart to also have the db changes?

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Post #: 29
RE: radar detection bug - 9/14/2010 1:28:07 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks guys, I guess I could have been more specific. As I mentioned I'm kind of confused with the code and data patch terms. What I meant to say was something along the lines of , will the radar and attack bomber fixes require you to restart?

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Post #: 30
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