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Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War

 
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Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 7/10/2010 11:35:52 AM   
Wolfe1759


Posts: 798
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From: Shropshire, UK
Status: offline 		Played the demo of this when it first came out and it seemed to have the potential to be a good light wargame with a boardgame feel and some nice gameplay features.

From memory I'm almost certain that the demo said that in the full game you would be able to play both Carthage and Rome.

Even if I'm mistaken the decision not to be able to play both of the sides in the war seems a bit odd and makes it feel like half a game or at best an opportunity missed.

I still might get it if the price is right i.e. c£15/$20

What do other budding Scipios think.

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 7/10/2010 11:45:19 AM   
Tarsyk

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 5/15/2010
Status: offline 		I don't think the demo mentioned Rome, but of course it would be better to have them as well.

What I am hoping for is to see a version of the game with both sides playable (in multiplayer!) if this sells well.

Speaking of selling, when is it out?

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 7/10/2010 12:43:02 PM   
NefariousKoel


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Status: offline 		Both sides and multiplayer would be great but I don't recall them being mentioned.

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 7/11/2010 7:53:04 AM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline 		I'm afraid my initial interest in this game is fading fast. No MP isn't an issue if the AI is OK (and how much MP of this sort of game ever gets played anyway?), but I really would expect to be able to play both sides particularly when, as here, they should offer rather different challenges and require different approaches.

Even at $20/£15 I'll need to see a demo for this, and I still don't see why the existing one has been pulled.

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 7/11/2010 8:29:05 AM   
NefariousKoel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

I'm afraid my initial interest in this game is fading fast. No MP isn't an issue if the AI is OK (and how much MP of this sort of game ever gets played anyway?), but I really would expect to be able to play both sides particularly when, as here, they should offer rather different challenges and require different approaches.

Even at $20/£15 I'll need to see a demo for this, and I still don't see why the existing one has been pulled.


The older ones were pulled because they were adding extra requested features. I paraphrased there but you get the idea.

Both sides playable would be very nice. Of course, that would require extra development time beyond what FMG had originally planned. I was quite impressed with the demo - even limited to 2 turns. This may end up being a small prelude to a larger sequel as numerous other games have been here at Matrix.


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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 7/13/2010 12:23:19 AM   
blastpop


Posts: 395
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		Not impressed with the graphics posted on the Wargamer. Looks like a hand drawn playtest map and counters for a board wargame. I do enough of that kind of work- I don't want to play another for my spare time.

I know its trying to capture a certain style.

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 7/13/2010 1:02:34 AM   
gwgardner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

I'm afraid my initial interest in this game is fading fast. No MP isn't an issue if the AI is OK



With only one side playable, the Roman AI better be good, or replayability will go down the tube. I'm on board to get this game right now, but like you, have to see a bit more to be convinced.

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/21/2010 6:51:06 PM   
Wolfe1759


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfe

I still might get it if the price is right i.e. c£15/$20



£26/$40

Oh well, looks like I'll be saving my money for Commander The Great War or Panzer Command Ostfront.

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/21/2010 7:36:32 PM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
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Status: offline 		30 euros for a game with no multiplayer and only one side to play??? are you serious??? best joke ever

I test the demo sometime ago and find the game interesting but expect more in the final release well, i save the money the sales period is near.

PD: even the "Road to Baghdad" CC abomination has multiplayer

< Message edited by Hexagon -- 9/21/2010 7:37:00 PM >

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/21/2010 7:43:31 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
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Status: offline 		Hi Hexagon,

We'll have an updated demo out in a few weeks, but in the meantime if you read through the designer's notes, you'll see that this game was specifically designed with single player in mind, for those that prefer to play against the AI. The AI is fantastic and kicks my butt on a regular basis. If you're looking for a good wargame to play when you don't have time for a human opponent, this is it!

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/21/2010 7:57:28 PM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
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Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply, i see the notes but only can say that the best AI is play with another human, win or be defeated by an AI isnt a challenge and dont add both options (even play both sides) is a problem because give to the game a very very short life... even "DC First blitzkrieg" is for me "short" and have multi, options to play in many sides.

Today a game like this is a step forward could be great but is like a tank with no canon, is a tank but not the same.

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/21/2010 8:05:44 PM   
TJD

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blastpop

Not impressed with the graphics posted on the Wargamer. Looks like a hand drawn playtest map and counters for a board wargame. I do enough of that kind of work- I don't want to play another for my spare time.

I know its trying to capture a certain style.


I was skeptical of the graphics initially too. I even know one guy who decided not to playtest because he thought the graphics were ugly. But I totally changed my mind, and quickly. You really have to see the total game environment rather than just a few static screenies before you can judge. There's a gestalt effect; the music and the graphics sync perfectly and create a really engaging game environment. This is the only game I've had where I've left the music on.

So give it a chance.

Tim

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Post #: 12
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/21/2010 9:31:32 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
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Status: offline 		$50 for the box?!! Sorry, I'll pass on this one. It don't look worth it. I could get Civ V for that money!

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 1:41:45 AM   
blastpop


Posts: 395
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From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

$50 for the box?!! Sorry, I'll pass on this one. It don't look worth it. I could get Civ V for that money!


I think I agree tho I'll wait on the reviews of that since I am still playing the previous version. Comes down to too many games and not enough time.

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Post #: 14
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 4:40:38 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		I'm playing too much Microsoft Flight Sim lately (2 hour flights every night) and ignoring all games except the ones with ongonig PBEM matches.  Looks like a pass to me.  As for the graphics, hand-drawn is acutally more artisitc and appropriate for the theme.  It really gives you an ancient theme.

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 9:09:16 AM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJD

This is the only game I've had where I've left the music on.



Same here. Beautiful game.

While single player only will be an issue with some people, this was definitely tailor-made for single-player with that tabletop game feel & setup.

I regularly see people complaining about game's AIs not being enough of a challenge and I think this one addresses that quite nicely.


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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 11:50:50 AM   
TJD

 

Posts: 294
Joined: 1/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

I regularly see people complaining about game's AIs not being enough of a challenge and I think this one addresses that quite nicely.



I totally agree. This is the best AI I've ever seen. I wish there were an IQ scale for measuring the smarts of AI, because it would show that this AI is a major leap forward. Just on this basis alone the game is a real achievement.

Tim

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 1:46:47 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
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Status: offline 		Ok, I lasted less than 24hrs., going to purchase now. My wife noticed my pouting and offered to pay half of the game!

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 3:23:15 PM   
jhdeerslayer


Posts: 1194
Joined: 5/25/2002
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		What about replay value and also typical game length?

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 4:11:02 PM   
TJD

 

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Joined: 1/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deerslayer

What about replay value and also typical game length?


I've played a lot -- more than two dozen games -- and I've never known two games to be alike. There is lots of variability in combat results, politics, and AI decision-making, so it's a new game every time. It is really very fluid and what worked in the last game may not work at all in the next one.

As for game length, it's as variable as the rest of it. I've been beaten in 5 moves, but I don't believe I've ever won in less than 12. I can't put a real-time value on a typical game because I tend to dither and am not very efficient that way. You have to move carefully because the game places a premium on efficient organization and sequencing of moves, so you want to put in the time and really think things through.

HTH

Tim

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Post #: 20
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 5:00:02 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline 		Expensive, way too expensive. Again.


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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 6:05:04 PM   
TJD

 

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Joined: 1/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Expensive, way too expensive. Again.




Well, I'm never one to underestimate the value of $50 or whatever Matrix is charging, but value, especially for entertainment, is highly relative. Fifty bucks will buy a middling dinner and a movie. Or it can buy you a game like Hannibal that will put your time to far more interesting use. Of course Hannibal costs too much. Everything does. But you're guaranteed a continuing return on your investment here, which is not generally the case with money spent on fun.

Tim


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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 6:19:44 PM   
jjax


Posts: 289
Joined: 2/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Expensive, way too expensive. Again.




Well, I'm never one to underestimate the value of $50 or whatever Matrix is charging, but value, especially for entertainment, is highly relative. Fifty bucks will buy a middling dinner and a movie. Or it can buy you a game like Hannibal that will put your time to far more interesting use. Of course Hannibal costs too much. Everything does. But you're guaranteed a continuing return on your investment here, which is not generally the case with money spent on fun.

Tim




Or it could buy you Civ 5...which is probably a better way to judge the value of your PC buck. Mind you, I have not tried the demo, but I have trouble believing that this game has as much depth as Civ 5. At the moment, expensive seems to be spot on.

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 6:34:07 PM   
TJD

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jjax


Or it could buy you Civ 5...which is probably a better way to judge the value of your PC buck. Mind you, I have not tried the demo, but I have trouble believing that this game has as much depth as Civ 5. At the moment, expensive seems to be spot on.


Well, I don't think everyone would agree that Civ 5 is the benchmark of value in PC gaming. It certainly isn't to me, or for that matter anyone I know. I'm sure it's a great game, though. So's Hannibal. It's a relative thing, you know. Which was the point.

Tim

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 6:42:21 PM   
SteveD64

 

Posts: 570
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Shaker Hts, Ohio, USA
Status: offline 		I played the original demo and loved it.  The AI crushed me a couple of times (after two turns!) but most of the time I cursed the fact the demo was so short because I wanted to see what happened next.

The AI was different in every game I played btw.

I can see why people don't want to pay 40 bucks for a small game but for me this will be a must buy.


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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 7:09:58 PM   
PJJ

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline 		I've been playing Hannibal for a few hours today and I can honestly say I don't regret this purchase at all. For me, the price wasn't high, but I can understand if some people feel it is. However, if you are at all interested in ancient history and warfare, I feel this game is a must-buy. The AI is probably the best I've ever seen in any strategy game. And gameplay is so effortless and smooth that you can concentrate in the most important thing, strategy, without having to fight against a clumsy user interface. There are too many strategy games with absolutely awful usability - Hannibal is not one of them. Replayability is not a problem, because the situation can develop in so many ways depending on the cards etc. And it's really easy to start a new game, nothing like the first turn in WitP. 

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 8:18:46 PM   
jhdeerslayer


Posts: 1194
Joined: 5/25/2002
From: Michigan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deerslayer

What about replay value and also typical game length?


I've played a lot -- more than two dozen games -- and I've never known two games to be alike. There is lots of variability in combat results, politics, and AI decision-making, so it's a new game every time. It is really very fluid and what worked in the last game may not work at all in the next one.

As for game length, it's as variable as the rest of it. I've been beaten in 5 moves, but I don't believe I've ever won in less than 12. I can't put a real-time value on a typical game because I tend to dither and am not very efficient that way. You have to move carefully because the game places a premium on efficient organization and sequencing of moves, so you want to put in the time and really think things through.

HTH

Tim


OK thanks. I hate some of you guys as I really need to stop buying so many games...

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/22/2010 11:16:03 PM   
papajack

 

Posts: 80
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Status: offline 		I was expecting $29.90 for this game ....now have to step back and think for a while ..

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/23/2010 12:40:34 AM   
SteveD64

 

Posts: 570
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Shaker Hts, Ohio, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, I thought the game would start out at $30 to be honest. However it's a very well done game and I really can't imagine how patches could improve it, unless *gets on soapbox* there was a little more buildup and suspense to battle resolution. By that I mean let's see the die rolls for each unit to hit. What I miss about boardgames is the die rolls, there was suspense in rolling the die and getting a lucky "6" (or whatever). What I don't miss about boardgames is the rules lawyering and interpretation aspect.

At least in this game there is tactical decision making going on in terms of who to commit and who to remove. Just needs some rolling dice

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/23/2010 2:07:08 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
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Status: offline 		I think the price is high. I get iPhone games like Neuroshima Hex and Samurai (single player with challenging AI (I never win so far), lots of randomness, and vast replayability, short to long gameplay) for much less (< $3).  These are no brainers and have similar qualities to this game (except the historical aspect). I guess the App Store spoiled the market already. Maybe this will make a good iPhone app and generate even more sales. Hint Hint.

My price point for this game would be $20. When you have too may games in your playlist (like me) it's time to be choosy. I guess their timing wasn't good. And also a lot are going to be sucked into Civ 5 from now on.

< Message edited by jomni -- 9/23/2010 2:11:21 AM >

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