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Allied Ship Conversions - 9/24/2010 7:27:09 PM   
mbk2043


Posts: 27
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		I am nearly 2 weeks into my allied vs. ai "learning" game ... I learn something new each turn it seems, I was preparing convoys to head to key bases and happened upon the 'conversion' option for my AKs and thought "crap" ... I am sending the merchant marine off to certain doom. Many xAKs could be converted to AGs and AKEs, this provides x4 or better AA ... apparently the boys aboard were using hunting rifles or slingshots or somesuch to engage aircraft b/f .... my basic questions are?

1. Should I begin converting early? Or will this hamper my ability to hold early on since many ships are 2-4wks recovering from conversions?

2. If #1 is a yes, am I to assume that future AK,TK replacement makes up for the general poor quality of the 'conscripted' merchants early on?

Thank you for any advice


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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/24/2010 7:44:35 PM   
Smeulders

 

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Status: offline 		1. You'll have enough xAKs anyway as allies, you can afford to have a bunch of them in the yards. Question is, do you think you will use them all as AKE and AG ? Don't look at the AA too much, merchants that are attacked by aircraft won't be able to do much anyway, doesn't matter too much if they have virtually no or just very bad AA.

2. The main advantages later on, especially for xAK are a much longer range and cargo holds. For TK it's mainly the numbers that will make you happy.

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/24/2010 8:00:15 PM   
mbk2043


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Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		I would like to keeps my 'light' CA/DD forces operational and at the front as much as possible early on so I was thinking putting AKE/AGs & other support in and too the front should take high priority. Busting up invasion fleets seems to be my only satisfaction 2 weeks in . From reading many AARs it seems my main focus should be slowing these advances even at the cost of man and machine until late '42/ early '43 when I can begin to take it to them

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/24/2010 9:10:33 PM   
mbk2043


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Status: offline 		Ahh, I've found another question? When I make a TF commander ... "Halsey" is the current one, and then I 'disband' that TF into a port.

Where does "Halsey" go???? don't see him in the pool ... is there a delay?



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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/25/2010 12:15:08 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mbk2043

I would like to keeps my 'light' CA/DD forces operational and at the front as much as possible early on so I was thinking putting AKE/AGs & other support in and too the front should take high priority. Busting up invasion fleets seems to be my only satisfaction 2 weeks in . From reading many AARs it seems my main focus should be slowing these advances even at the cost of man and machine until late '42/ early '43 when I can begin to take it to them


I would convert a good number of xAKs to AKEs; you will need them badly in 1943-1945 at advance bases to reload your CAs and BBs. (Read the manual for what they do.) AGs IMO have far less utility. The window to convert many of the ship types closes fairly early, too early in your first game to know what you'll need years in the future. Trust me, you want some AKEs. I converted about 15-20 in my second game.

I would convert the old 4-pipe DDs to APDs for use in Fast Transport TFs. You don't have a lot of anything that can Fast T., and you'll want them in certain situations. You have an option to go DE with these ships, I believe. Don't do it! You get DEs later in bulk, but never have enough Fast T.

Not a conversion issue, but an upgrade issue. Do the DDs' upgrades on time, every time you can. ASW capability starts generally at 2, and can climb to 11. You want to do this.

I do my merchant AA upgrades when I can. They generally dump machine guns for 20mm and 40mm, and can't stop a determined Betty raid. But they can help disrupt one, and every bit helps. I don't pull merchants in to do these upgrades, but I do them when I have slack time. They don't take long.


< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 9/25/2010 12:16:53 AM >

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/25/2010 1:30:37 AM   
Sredni

 

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Status: offline 		A note about the DD to APD conversions. Don't mess around with any of the other upgrades with them, and do the APD conversion early. I did the normal upgrade (dd to dd) on a bunch of those apd capable DD's and after they had made that upgrade they lost the ability to convert to APD's. Believe me I was bummed. Now I have a bunch of old clemsons (and a single wilkes) running around as DD's that I don't really have a use for since I'd much rather use fletchers for pretty much any DD related activity.

As for the xAK conversions, I ignored all the ones for AG's. AG's are worthless and serve no purpose imho. I did the normal upgrades for any xAK's that were smaller then 19000 endurance that can convert to xAP's. In 43 and 44 you get a ton, literally hundreds and hundreds of 19000 and 19300 endurance xAK's appearing in ports in continental USA which can also convert to xAP's. If I find I need to make more xAP's I'll convert some of those.

The xAK's that can convert to AKE's I didn't bother with conversions for any of them that would have converted to smaller then 5500 I think it was supply capacity as AKE's. Those smaller ones I just continued with their normal xAK upgrades. The larger ones that were capable of turning into AKE's I held off upgrading for ages before I just gave in and upgraded all of them too. I personally found AKE's arn't that usefull to me. I build up bases along my advance to be capable of rearming anything anyways, so I don't really need AE's and AKE's. But there's so many xAK's later in the game there's really no reason not to convert a bunch of older ones to AKE's. Until I'm able to do rearmaments at sea even the AE's arn't that usefull to me.

I think there were some xAK's that could convert to AE's, but I can't find them anymore. Looking back I would have saved those ones and converted them because I can definately see a time where I'll want all the AE's I can get for at sea replenishment.

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/25/2010 4:48:33 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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Status: offline 		When you convert many AKEs is debatable, but to tell a newbie that there are lots of islands all over the western Pacific that can rearm BBs without an AKE is a disservice. There aren't.

Early on in June 1942, I already have an AKE, and other support ships, at Midway, Christmas Island, Dutch Harbor, Darwin, and Noumea. The AI does heavy CA and/or BB-led raids, sometimes with carrier support, to most of these areas in 1942, and I have heavy surface forces staged there. They're of little use, however, if they can't reload.

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/25/2010 7:42:30 AM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mbk2043

Ahh, I've found another question? When I make a TF commander ... "Halsey" is the current one, and then I 'disband' that TF into a port.

Where does "Halsey" go???? don't see him in the pool ... is there a delay?





Prostate rest.

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/25/2010 3:31:33 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
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From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Bullwinkles advice is sound and I pretty much agree.

In early 42 I was feeling the weight of Japanese subs so heavily that I converted all Clemsons that I could to DEs. While very useful, I regret that I did not convert them to APDs. You just never will have enough of these ships.

Unless you are the worst Allied player ever. You will have plenty of AKx. You are not going to lose the game by making conversions. Personally, every AKx that I can convert to AP gets converted. As you get into 1944 and are not only invading but need to move rear area units closer to the front, you will need millions of APx ships. AKEs and AE have cargo capacity so in a pinch you can use them for that. Why not convert plenty of AKx to this type? I don't see you losing much. And APsa can carry cargo in a pinch as well.

I find Allied AA to be pretty weak but there is no reason not to convert your ships. More is better even it it is not that powerful. Radar upgrades are important too. A lot of Allied CAs and BBs lose their float planes. You might want to not upgrade some as float planes now play a role in night bombardment.

Use tracker and manage your upgrades. Nothing worse than to have a critical surface group arrive at a forward base and all of your ships go into upgrade at the wrong moment. Turn off all upgrades and then turn them on when tracker tells you that you need it.

Absolutely do your 12/42 sub upgrades. Many fleet boats can then carry the Mk12 mine which is a "nasty ship killing Ho"

Look at your DDs. Upgrades generally give you more and better DCs. Not a bad thing.

British DD to DE in 43 is a no brainer. Can anyone say "hedgehog?"

In 42, (when playing a human) I would not recommend upgrading CVs, BBs, CAs, in any active theater. That 30 shipyard in Sidney or Colombo looks nice-unit Mr. KB shows up.

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/25/2010 8:36:07 PM   
USSAmerica


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Status: offline 		Good stuff, cr!  

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/25/2010 11:27:55 PM   
Sredni

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

When you convert many AKEs is debatable, but to tell a newbie that there are lots of islands all over the western Pacific that can rearm BBs without an AKE is a disservice. There aren't.

Early on in June 1942, I already have an AKE, and other support ships, at Midway, Christmas Island, Dutch Harbor, Darwin, and Noumea. The AI does heavy CA and/or BB-led raids, sometimes with carrier support, to most of these areas in 1942, and I have heavy surface forces staged there. They're of little use, however, if they can't reload.


I should have been clearer . I meant I don't see a reason not to convert to ake's (at least the larger types). I personally didn't, and while I don't expect I'll need them with my playstyle, I probably should have converted them and simply let them sit in port somewhere just in case. With me it was simply I had held off for so long I eventually threw up my hands and hastily authorized the xAK->xAK upgrades heh, something I may or may not regret later.

There are just so many xAK's arriving later in the game that there is literally no reason not to convert some to ake's on the off chance you might need them at some later date.

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/25/2010 11:56:33 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

When you convert many AKEs is debatable, but to tell a newbie that there are lots of islands all over the western Pacific that can rearm BBs without an AKE is a disservice. There aren't.

Early on in June 1942, I already have an AKE, and other support ships, at Midway, Christmas Island, Dutch Harbor, Darwin, and Noumea. The AI does heavy CA and/or BB-led raids, sometimes with carrier support, to most of these areas in 1942, and I have heavy surface forces staged there. They're of little use, however, if they can't reload.


I should have been clearer . I meant I don't see a reason not to convert to ake's (at least the larger types). I personally didn't, and while I don't expect I'll need them with my playstyle, I probably should have converted them and simply let them sit in port somewhere just in case. With me it was simply I had held off for so long I eventually threw up my hands and hastily authorized the xAK->xAK upgrades heh, something I may or may not regret later.

There are just so many xAK's arriving later in the game that there is literally no reason not to convert some to ake's on the off chance you might need them at some later date.


I've got you now. I didn't understand how important they were in my first game. Without them there's almost no place to reload BBs between Sydney and Pearl. No place in the Marianas either. I think I had a total of three by mid-1944, and it made me go for Manilla earlier than I wanted just to get a big organic port.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 9/25/2010 11:57:20 PM >

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/26/2010 2:20:54 AM   
erstad

 

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Status: offline 		This will be old news to the old hands, but for others reading this - be aware that AKEs have ops points limitations to how much they can reload in a turn. So it's not just a case of "having an AKE here, and another one there" - you might need several in a spot if you want to turn TFs around quickly.

Seems to be especially true for bombardment TFs, since they shoot off almost all their main gun ammo which takes a lot of ops points to replace.

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/26/2010 1:26:33 PM   
John Lansford

 

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Status: offline 		Plus, there's a size limit on what kind of ships can be rearmed by an AKE or AE.  It has something to do with the amount of supplies the ship can carry vs the size of the shells the ship uses.  The big AE and AKE classes with 5000+ supply point capacity can rearm anything, but the smaller ones can only rearm cruisers or smaller ships.  I convert every xAK I can into an AE/AKE ship, just as I'll convert the fast transports to AP's every chance I get.  The old 4 stack destroyers, as others have pointed out, are useful as fast APD's and their ASW capability isn't affected much by the conversion; in fact it's improved over the original ship, so I convert all of them too.

While I didn't convert every xAK I could into an AG, I did do it for several of them for the AA upgrade.  Plus, an AG can rearm PT boats and small patrol craft, and nothing stops you from using it to carry supplies either.

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/26/2010 11:48:54 PM   
mbk2043


Posts: 27
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Status: offline 		Excellent information, thank you all for helping me make my early decisions a little less worrysome. I understand that unless I totally mess up, the Allies will be victorious ... I've already seen some luck with the otherwise neutered torpedoes. 1 hit reported on Akagi and 2 on a Soryu class . If these hold true, and considering they're still some distance from home (near Saipan), I should have a leg-up on them early on.

One thing I noted last turn about an AG class is that when engaged by a sub outside LA, it took the torp shot and returned fire ... 7 shell hits reported on the sub although the 9 recieved shellhits & 2 torpedoes sent the AG down. At least the valuable xAPs made it away .... for now


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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/27/2010 12:04:41 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

This will be old news to the old hands, but for others reading this - be aware that AKEs have ops points limitations to how much they can reload in a turn. So it's not just a case of "having an AKE here, and another one there" - you might need several in a spot if you want to turn TFs around quickly.

Seems to be especially true for bombardment TFs, since they shoot off almost all their main gun ammo which takes a lot of ops points to replace.


Yep. I had, at the end, 19 BBs in my bombardment group, working over Iwo Jima, etc., and every AKE I had (three I think) at Guam. They didn't all reload in one turn. At that time I was still struggling with the "-64k" supply bug with support ships, so often I had to unload and reload AKE supplies to get the reload started. Thus, Manilla. It has a nice, big natural port. Disneyland for battleships.

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/27/2010 9:39:48 PM   
Amoral

 

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Status: offline 		AGs get a bad rap, but they aren;t so bad. First, they lose very little cargo space in the conversion, so you can still haul. I also order my convoys up to full speed in dangerous waters, and that causes lots of Sys damage. But when I mix in several AGs in each convoy, they repair the damage even when the convoy docks at a small port.

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/27/2010 9:52:47 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amoral

AGs get a bad rap, but they aren;t so bad. First, they lose very little cargo space in the conversion, so you can still haul. I also order my convoys up to full speed in dangerous waters, and that causes lots of Sys damage. But when I mix in several AGs in each convoy, they repair the damage even when the convoy docks at a small port.


My understanding was AGs would only assist in repair of small craft and yard craft, not ships. Is there a tonnage limit you see?

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/27/2010 11:04:20 PM   
Q-Ball


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Status: offline 		When I played Allies, I found myself converting 100s of xAK into xAP. I never had enough it seemed, at least into 1943. I recommend a massive conversion. It's not like you lack for xAKs.

I'm not big on conversions other than you need a pile of AKEs, at least a couple dozen.

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/28/2010 5:30:41 AM   
jrcar

 

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Status: offline 		AKE's are very useful, you want 2-4 to support a large TF.

AG's I find useful, their extra armament helps, especially early on and they can do some repair

I probably should have converted more xAK to xAP, we have done a fair few, but we saved a lot of useful shipping and haven't had big losses in our shipping, but more xAP would be useful...

I agree on the APD conversions.

Cheers

Rob



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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/28/2010 7:36:09 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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Status: offline 		If you want to do high-tempo BB bombardments several AKEs with high capacity need to be parked near the target (except for a few select areas on the map, like Chittagong-based TFs bombarding Akyab). I would suggest converting all your 4900-ton capacity and higher ships to AKEs. Also, I see there are good arguments for converting smaller ones elucidated above and I may try that next time (even AGs apparently have a role to play). One more factor: AKEs tend to suffer a bit of attrition so having plenty of them around helps.

Converting xAKs to xAPs is also crucial to lift troops.

Cheers,
CC

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/28/2010 6:50:12 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amoral

AGs get a bad rap, but they aren;t so bad. First, they lose very little cargo space in the conversion, so you can still haul. I also order my convoys up to full speed in dangerous waters, and that causes lots of Sys damage. But when I mix in several AGs in each convoy, they repair the damage even when the convoy docks at a small port.



Nice tip...

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/28/2010 7:05:41 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Amoral

AGs get a bad rap, but they aren;t so bad. First, they lose very little cargo space in the conversion, so you can still haul. I also order my convoys up to full speed in dangerous waters, and that causes lots of Sys damage. But when I mix in several AGs in each convoy, they repair the damage even when the convoy docks at a small port.



Nice tip...


I'd still need to test this to see if the cargo ships weren't really being repaired by own ship's crew and not the AGs. Crews can fix small levels of system damage without help. Painting, sea strainer clean-out, repacking small valves, etc.

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/28/2010 7:32:39 PM   
JWE

 

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Status: offline 		That would be in the table at 14.2.3.2 of the Manual, big fella. Not based on tonnage, but on Type.

AG - May assist repair of Small Escort and Small Craft. Can repair Major damage only for Small Craft.
Small Escort = DE, APD, DMS, DM, AVD, E, TB, KV, PF, PB, PC, SC, AM, ML
Small Craft = PB, PC, SC, AM, ML, HDML, MGB, YP, YMS, AMc

Sorry, but they don’t do merchie swine.

[ed] don't think anyone does merchie swine except a full AR. Maybe because a merchie's idea of major system damage is when the officer's head gets stopped up, and the smaller tenders didn't want to deal with that kind of crap (as it were).

< Message edited by JWE -- 9/28/2010 7:41:50 PM >

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/28/2010 8:15:34 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

That would be in the table at 14.2.3.2 of the Manual, big fella. Not based on tonnage, but on Type.

AG - May assist repair of Small Escort and Small Craft. Can repair Major damage only for Small Craft.
Small Escort = DE, APD, DMS, DM, AVD, E, TB, KV, PF, PB, PC, SC, AM, ML
Small Craft = PB, PC, SC, AM, ML, HDML, MGB, YP, YMS, AMc

Sorry, but they don’t do merchie swine.


That last is what I had remembered. I've about given up on ever remembering what's in the manual for more than 2 days at a time, and looking everything up before posting here just takes all the fun out of it, ya know?

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/28/2010 11:20:51 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I've about given up on ever remembering what's in the manual for more than 2 days at a time, and looking everything up before posting here just takes all the fun out of it, ya know?


Took you long enough!

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/29/2010 12:18:04 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I've about given up on ever remembering what's in the manual for more than 2 days at a time, and looking everything up before posting here just takes all the fun out of it, ya know?


Took you long enough!


The kids here don't know it yet, but one of the advantages of being a fossil is you don't care how dumb you look in public. Exhibit A: what I just wore at the gym. If I had a teenager they'd be over the state line by now, headed west.

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/29/2010 12:28:08 AM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

The kids here don't know it yet, but one of the advantages of being a fossil is you don't care how dumb you look in public. Exhibit A: what I just wore at the gym. If I had a teenager they'd be over the state line by now, headed west.


When buying clothes (for me), my wife has gotten used to my standard response regarding how something looks: "I don't care."


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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/29/2010 2:36:50 AM   
stuman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

The kids here don't know it yet, but one of the advantages of being a fossil is you don't care how dumb you look in public. Exhibit A: what I just wore at the gym. If I had a teenager they'd be over the state line by now, headed west.


When buying clothes (for me), my wife has gotten used to my standard response regarding how something looks: "I don't care."





Well that is just because we are all so damn good looking that it really doesn't matter at all what we wear !

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RE: Allied Ship Conversions - 9/29/2010 3:19:53 AM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

Well that is just because we are all so damn good looking that it really doesn't matter at all what we wear!


Yes, I qvuite agree!






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