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H2H is back !!! - 8/17/2002 4:00:52 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

It is done, it is up and running !!!

The H2H module has finally a new home at [URL=http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/read.php?f=7&i=3409&t=3409]The Blitz[/URL]

RedDevil set the first downloads up in the Forum, the full download page will follow...

There're two files:

The patch for all those who already got the module from Fabio's site (4MB)

The full version, for all those who didn't download it sofar (45MB)

So here is, what's new or different from the former version:

First I would like to give some special thanks to a few guys, who supported me in bringing out the final release version:

Svennemir and Kevin for doing major testing and giving a lot of valuable input on changes.

Mike "Warhorse" for upgrading the minor axis oobs

Fabio for his help in ... (too many things to list :D)

and Alby, being the propaganda and marketing manager on the Forums :D

...and many, many more...

First you can recognize the final release version by the "H2H ce" instead of just the "H2H" in the main menue version display.

The one major change in this version is the Artillery in general. Many values were altered having the effect of:

[list]

artillery is more expensive

heavy calibers (8in and the like) are harder to purchase

the ROF in general is increased (up to doubled rates)

no arty piece has a delay of 0.1 or 0.2 (instant), except for US mortars anymore

onboard batteries have a leader squad (disabling the 0.1 shift and menue exit bug)

onboard arty is in general more inaccurate (except mortars)
[/list]

This effects gameplay in the way, that...

...You have to think better of what you purchase, as mistakes will cost a lot...
...If you're not carefull with calling arty only when you need it, your batteries will run out of ammo pretty quick (remember, that the ROF is usually doubled now for offboard !)...

The ROF forces you to play a bit with the delay times (again a factor, that sometimes pushes Arty times up a bit):

If you take a 105er, e.g., you can have the following rounds fired per turn:

If you decide to fire on 0.1, you usually fire 13 rounds (9 / 4)
on 0.2 it's 9 (6 / 3)
on 0.3 it's 9
on 0.4 it's 9
on 0.5 it's 6

don't nail me down on these numbers, I took them from the back of my mind :rolleyes:

if you only have 50 rounds to spent, it's wortwhile thinking about the numbers you want to fire...

Other things:

[list]

I went back to the 100% default settings - everything is altered accordingly

machineguns beefed up a bit in lethality

SMGs range increased by one hex

several little bug corrections
[/list]

If you know H2H, you should pretty much be set to the new standard now...if you don't, what are you waitin' for :confused:
Get yourself a copy and see if you like it :D

P.S. before somebody brings this up: I know, rockets don't have their screaming sound anymore (they sound like normal arty) - nobody is more disappointed about it then I am (yes, I'm a fan of Nebelwerfers, I confess), but that is the price for getting rid of the "instant arty"...:(

_____________________________

[URL=http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/spwaw_h2h_modrework.php] [IMG]http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/PzLeos-H2H-Title-1.jpg[/IMG] [/URL]

Mir nach, ich folge euch !

Post #: 1

- 8/17/2002 4:19:40 AM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline

Just downloaded the file Panzer Leo, I will admit (with some amusement I suppose) that I haven't got clue one what it's for heheh.

At the risk of sound incredibly dumb, what in a single sentence, is this program for:)

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Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 2

- 8/17/2002 5:05:55 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]Just downloaded the file Panzer Leo, I will admit (with some amusement I suppose) that I haven't got clue one what it's for heheh.

At the risk of sound incredibly dumb, what in a single sentence, is this program for:) [/B][/QUOTE]

Here're some quotes made on H2H, I like :D

originally by Alby:

[QUOTE]H2H is made especially for "head to Head" battles Pbem, Online,ect ect
But is not JUST for head to Head.
Ive found the OOBs improved, armor combat improved, formations improved, just an improvement to spwaw 7.1 in my book.
[/QUOTE]

originally by Red Mike:

[QUOTE]I love H2H...I play it exclusively!!!
[/QUOTE]

originally by Paul "Steel God", Ladder Master SP at the Blitz

[QUOTE]I've decided to add SP: Head to Head, Panzer Leo's fine modification to the list of games supported by the Blitz Ladder. Although essentially still SPWAW, it requires different OOB's and much more imporntantly, a different executable, and is really a different game. To help those players who prefer to play with that mod I've made it a seperate choice and you can now list it on the ladder if you wish. Also, games played using HTH can be reported seperately as well. [/QUOTE]

...hihi, o.k. these are the best ones I could find :D

BUT, be careful Les, once you installed it over any SPWAW version from 5.0 on or higher, there's no way back - you overwrite a lot of things - so make backups or use a second installment...

Also: keep in mind, that Matrix changed the folder to extract to from "MatrixGames" to "Matrix Games" - the selfextractor from H2H works on the first one (all versions except 7.1) - so just browse to the second if you install it over 7.1...

If you want to read about a lot of features, go here: [URL=http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17693&pagenumber=1]H2H info & questions[/URL]

that should help...:)

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Post #: 3

- 8/17/2002 5:30:45 AM

Alby

Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline

YEEEEHAWWWW! I am In HOG heaven!!
Thanks Leo! H2H rocks!
And so does my band BTW hehehhe:)
[url]www.whystopnow.net[/url]

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Post #: 4

- 8/17/2002 5:41:39 AM

Jack

Posts: 309
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline

Question for you Panzer Leo.
First I think you should know I only play H2H. Thank you very much for that.
My question is what would happen if I started a game with the old version of H2H and then me and my opponent upgraded. Would it still work? Or just wait till the games are over?

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Post #: 5

- 8/17/2002 5:53:17 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jack
[B]Question for you Panzer Leo.
First I think you should know I only play H2H. Thank you very much for that.
My question is what would happen if I started a game with the old version of H2H and then me and my opponent upgraded. Would it still work? Or just wait till the games are over? [/B][/QUOTE]

As far as I know, it is very unlikely, that there will be problems - there will be only a handfull or so units that could cause a crash, but I cannot guarantee it - if you want to be 100% save, wait till the game is ended - if you can live with 99% save, try to upgrade....

BTW...forgot one feature everyone will notice immediately:

There're no casualty reports (except for very few circumstances) anymore - this disables (almost) the "spotting by arty casualties"

have fun...

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Post #: 6

- 8/17/2002 6:01:24 AM

Svennemir

Posts: 542
Joined: 11/2/2001
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Yeah, finally!

It's been a pleasure to work with H2H. Thanks a lot, Leo !

Jack: As far as I know there has not been (m)any cases of OOB/weapon slots changing in this patch, and thus I don't *think* there should be trouble. But maybe PzLeo should confirm this... especially since I haven't yet downloaded the final patch.

"onboard batteries have a leader squad (disabling the 0.1 shift and menue exit bug) "

I remember when I worked with Price (the former OOB Poohbah) that a solution quite similar (actually identical) to that one was being introduced - except for those changes being discarded along with most others at that time. I'm very happy this has been included though I don't really remember whether I actually proposed this or not. Thanks anyway!

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 7

- 8/17/2002 6:04:02 AM

Svennemir

Posts: 542
Joined: 11/2/2001
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Jack: Looks like Leo beat me to this. (wasn't exactly fast)

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Post #: 8

- 8/17/2002 6:20:16 AM

tracer

Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline

Jim NSB

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Post #: 9

- 8/17/2002 6:22:40 AM

tracer

Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline

Almost forgot....thanks Leo!

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Jim NSB

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Post #: 10

- 8/17/2002 7:16:45 AM

Jack

Posts: 309
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline

Just a couple more comments Panzer Leo on H2H. I really like the idea of casualties not showing up with the arty. I will gladly forfeit the sounds of rockets.
Is it at all possible to limit the way units are identified? What I mean is when the units see each other all you do is right click on the enemy unit and a screen comes up and tells you what it is. Is it at all possible for it to be coded just to say enemy infantry, instead of whatever it really is? Or Panther tank not the type. I think you know what I am trying to ask.
I am thinking the standard answer is no. Wait till CL comes out. We can always hope though.

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 11

- 8/17/2002 7:26:58 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jack
[B]Just a couple more comments Panzer Leo on H2H. I really like the idea of casualties not showing up with the arty. I will gladly forfeit the sounds of rockets.
Is it at all possible to limit the way units are identified? What I mean is when the units see each other all you do is right click on the enemy unit and a screen comes up and tells you what it is. Is it at all possible for it to be coded just to say enemy infantry, instead of whatever it really is? Or Panther tank not the type. I think you know what I am trying to ask.
I am thinking the standard answer is no. Wait till CL comes out. We can always hope though. [/B][/QUOTE]

Nope, sorry - nothing I can do about - this is too deep in the engine of SPWAW to get my hands on it....

...anyway, this version has to do it...it's the final release...like "SPWAW 7.1", "H2H ce" is the end of the line...I retire now from OOB tweaking, as I can't afford the time anymore...I will enjoy my retirement by doing what I haven't done quite a while: playing a battle just for the sake of playing a battle :)
I just signed up at the Blitz and look forward to some good battles...feels like in old Leadeaters days...great !!!...:D :D :D

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Post #: 12

Re: H2H is back !!! - 8/17/2002 9:21:07 AM

tracer

Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]

onboard batteries have a leader squad (disabling the 0.1 shift and menue exit bug)
[/B][/QUOTE]

A question about this: I was purchasing a U.S. mortar section and the two choices for the leader squad (US Platoon HQ) were both unavailable because of rarity. How will this affect the mortars?

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Jim NSB

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Post #: 13

- 8/17/2002 11:06:27 AM

Warrior

Posts: 1808
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
Status: offline

Good thing I didn't design anything new for H2H yet! Now I can get the final version and go to work.:)

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Post #: 14

- 8/17/2002 11:25:10 AM

Alby

Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline

EVERYONE DONT FORGET AS ALWAYS, DELETE THE STEEL PREF FILE AND RESET YOUR PREFS AFTER UPGRADING...

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Post #: 15

Have I got it correct ? - 8/17/2002 11:35:12 AM

chief

Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline

If I download H to H it will self load into my Ver 7.1 and overwrite certain files ?

Can it be downloaded and not auto installed ?

If above is yes, can it be added to any ver above 5.0 (ie 5.3) ?

I want the best of two worlds, call me greedy but call me.

Thanks in advance, it sounds great to me from what I've read so far.

:confused: :cool:

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Post #: 16

- 8/17/2002 12:05:13 PM

tracer

Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline

Chief, when you run the H2H installer (or patch) it allows you to browse to the folder where you want it to install. I have v7.1 ~and~ H2H in 2 different locations and they both run fine. I'm not sure what version of SPWAW is necessary for conversion to H2H; I'll leave that for someone else to answer.

_____________________________

Jim NSB

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Post #: 17

- 8/17/2002 12:19:56 PM

chief

Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline

Tracer: Danke for reply. I may just download and put it on a disc for now. I have very limited Hd space (2 Gbs total) and moving those abacus beads around to make more room is hard on the fingers. What I would do is add it to ver 5.3 that I have on a disc and make a new disc with H to H on it to use in place of 7.1 or 7.1w/MC to save space. Did this make sense to you or is it just me?

:rolleyes: :confused: :D :D :cool: Its summer in Florida. Do you know where your raincoat is ?

_____________________________

"God Bless America and All the Young men and women who give their all to protect Her"....chief

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Post #: 18

Re: Re: H2H is back !!! - 8/17/2002 5:24:55 PM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tracer
[B]

A question about this: I was purchasing a U.S. mortar section and the two choices for the leader squad (US Platoon HQ) were both unavailable because of rarity. How will this affect the mortars? [/B][/QUOTE]

Yep, this happens occassionally with rarity on. It's not really a problem. Now the purchased mortar platoon will behave like it always did, the first mortar will be the platoon leader...this simply means, the "shift and menue exit 0.1 delay bug" is enabled and it might appear...nothing dramatic...

The whole thing is about preventing players accidentely using this bug and for some folks to make it a bit harder to cheat :D

It is not vital to any important functions...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by REMF
[B]

Good thing I didn't design anything new for H2H yet! Now I can get the final version and go to work.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Even the scenarios for the first version should work...

And for anybody who didn't pay Redlegs great scenario site a visit, go to
[URL=http://redleg.homestead.com/]Redlegs "Dirty Dozen"[/URL]

Redleg has a new section, where he posts H2H scenarios - Steve already made two cool human vs human ones you should ceck out...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chief
[B]

What I would do is add it to ver 5.3 that I have on a disc and make a new disc with H to H on it
[/B][/QUOTE]

Shouldn't be a problem. H2H was tested to work from version 5.0 on for all version, so whatever version you got, unless it is 5.0+, it works...

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Post #: 19

- 8/17/2002 9:32:02 PM

tracer

Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chief
[B]Tracer: Danke for reply. I may just download and put it on a disc for now. I have very limited Hd space (2 Gbs total) and moving those abacus beads around to make more room is hard on the fingers. What I would do is add it to ver 5.3 that I have on a disc and make a new disc with H to H on it to use in place of 7.1 or 7.1w/MC to save space. Did this make sense to you or is it just me? [/B][/QUOTE]

I don't think you can swap versions that easily: you would need to install the disk copy onto your computer first to use it. If you're in the market for a 'solution', places like Best Buy have 10-20Gb drives on sale regularly for around $50. You could put one into your existing system and make it /:d drive...that way you wouldn't even have to change anything you have now and you'd have tons of additional space. They even have specials where they'd install it for you too. Just a thought.

[B] Its summer in Florida. Do you know where your raincoat is ? [/B] I hear that! I was looking in the mirror this morning and think I saw moss growing in my beard! :D :D

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Jim NSB

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Post #: 20

- 8/17/2002 10:10:08 PM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

A complete downloadsite is now online, thanks to Jim and the guys from the Blitzkrieg Wargaming Club.

Just click on the banner below...:)

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Post #: 21

- 8/18/2002 4:18:25 PM

Frank W.

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline

7.1 + HTH scens and camps are not compatible,right??

so i had to wait till i played all scens designed f. 7.1
that interest me before installing HTH ??

b.t.w. : i signed up to the blitz,too my codename is
ALPHA. if anyone wants a battle, please post!

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Post #: 22

- 8/18/2002 11:57:44 PM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank W.
[B]7.1 + HTH scens and camps are not compatible,right??

so i had to wait till i played all scens designed f. 7.1
that interest me before installing HTH ??
[/B][/QUOTE]

Right, usually you can't play v7.1 scen and camp with H2H...so if you don't want to have two installments (or you don't have enough space) of SPWAW, one v7.1 and one H2H, you have no choice then finishing the 7.1 scens...

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Post #: 23

Some comments - 8/20/2002 5:19:01 PM

sztartur2

Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline

Hi!

Is there a project to transform at least some campaigns and scenarios to H2H?
H2H will be more vauable if it is backed up by a mass of scenarios and campaigns to play with.

What I don't like in H2H is the formation highlight missing:mad: can you put it back?

On the other hand I like the OOB's and the new features.:cool:

Artur

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Post #: 24

Re: Some comments - 8/20/2002 6:48:23 PM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sztartur
[B]Hi!

Is there a project to transform at least some campaigns and scenarios to H2H?
H2H will be more vauable if it is backed up by a mass of scenarios and campaigns to play with.

What I don't like in H2H is the formation highlight missing:mad: can you put it back?

On the other hand I like the OOB's and the new features.:cool:

Artur [/B][/QUOTE]

There is no real project, but scenarios and campaigns will show up for H2H...

Redleg already supports H2H scens on his site. Steve "Warrior" Avery has done two scens, that are especially made for human vs human. "Down in the Boondocks" is a forest infantry engagement (or should I say slaughter:D) and Tankorama - well you probably guessed it - an open ground tank forces meeting...

It's pretty simple: the more you download these scenarios, the more you show Redleg and Steve, that they're not wasting their time and keep up their good work...so go and grap 'em at:

[URL=http://redleg.homestead.com/]Redleg's Dirty Dozen[/URL]

I know several scenario designers, who started playing H2H, so I hope it's just a question of time, when these guys start to convert scenarios to H2H or maybe even design special human vs human ones...

If you have a scenario of v7.1 (or older) and want to make it playable with H2H, converting is pretty simple done in the normal editor and takes about 30min for a medium sized battle, if you got a bit experience...

The highlight thing: well, I didn't touch it - it's just not activated with the preference setting that comes with H2H...you can reactivate it by "Unit Number all units"...that's all :)

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Post #: 25

- 8/20/2002 7:04:30 PM

sztartur2

Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline

Thank you for the answer. I am glad that formation highlight works...

Cold you tell me what has to be done in the editor in order to make a scenario H2H compatible?

Artur.

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Post #: 26

- 8/20/2002 8:43:17 PM

Commander Klank

Posts: 226
Joined: 10/15/2000
From: Killleen, Texas
Status: offline

Hey Panzer, just to let you know I'm working on a set of "beer and pretzels" tank battle senerios that will be for H2H online games. They will be 2way 3way and 4way battles with forces of tanks that are fairly evenly matched in stats and abilities.

I plan to call the set "Klanks Tanks".....:D

More to follow...

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Post #: 27

- 8/20/2002 8:47:56 PM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sztartur
[B]Thank you for the answer. I am glad that formation highlight works...

Cold you tell me what has to be done in the editor in order to make a scenario H2H compatible?

Artur. [/B][/QUOTE]

No problem, it's pretty simple:

Go into the editor and load a scenario you want to convert. Hit the deploy button and then either on the map or via the formation menue, go step by step from unit to unit and take a closer look at it...if it got an odd weapon or somehow appears strange (wrong icon, weird pic) hit the "R" button or the "Change Unit to different type" and pick the unit out of this list (these are now all the H2H OOBs units) you think it should be. When you return to the map, the changed unit often disappeared - don't worry, just click the marked hex (the hex were the unit was when you selected it) and it shows up again.
If you play around a bit with this, you'll get used to it very fast...
The securest way to avoid wrong units is ofcourse to change every single unit in a scenario to it's H2H equivalent, but that's often not necessary (though many changes are almost not noticable by just throwing a short look at a unit like: different ammo loads, especially APCR or small arms values changed like MGs)...
One hint: often units that are loaded are overseen and don't get converted - often happened to me...:D

So if you went through both nations units and everything looks fine, you're almost done - you just gotta ask one of our scenario-gurus like Redleg if he would be so kind to post the converted scenario on his site and others can benefit from your work...

...that's all ;)

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Post #: 28

- 8/20/2002 9:04:05 PM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Commander Klank
[B]Hey Panzer, just to let you know I'm working on a set of "beer and pretzels" tank battle senerios that will be for H2H online games. They will be 2way 3way and 4way battles with forces of tanks that are fairly evenly matched in stats and abilities.

I plan to call the set "Klanks Tanks".....:D

More to follow... [/B][/QUOTE]

See sztartur, someone is already working on special H2H scens :D

Can't wait to see the result Commander !!!...especially the online feature was often not really considered when creating scens in the past and I'm sure a lot of players will embrace your work !

I will head for the supermarket now and refill my Beer & Pretzels supply to be prepared :D

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Post #: 29

Panzer Leo... - 8/20/2002 9:19:12 PM

sztartur2

Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline

Hi!

I have some further questions:

As I know H2H changes the mech.exe file as well.
Did you get and modified the source code of mech.exe or just edited some of it's wondows resource?
I is quite interesting with which library and enviroment is the program made.

After reading your answer an idea came into my mind.
If somebody knows the format of the unit descriptor files in SPWaW a utility program could be written to convert the unit data into H2H compatible file. This does not look very hard to do. we just need the file format. Do you happen to know the format?

(What do you Matrix games guys think about it???)

It would be a waste not to make those good scenarios into H2H compatible ones. There are cca. 200 in the default game, lot more came after plus the campaigns.
I say that even though i know H2H was designed for PBEM.
I think the support of H2H will grow drastically if this is done.

Artur

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

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Post #: 30

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Slitherine

H2H is back !!!