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- 8/16/2002 5:42:08 PM   
Warrior


Posts: 1808
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From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank W.
[B]i LOVE what if´s

keep it going!!

[/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks Frank, you made my day. I will be searching my poor deluded idiot mind for more "what if's," and a friend of mine is considering a Canada vs Quebec scenario for Les. :D

(BTW, [I]Japs vs Nazi's[/I] is shaping up nicely. There are Vichy Legionnaires, French planters with shotguns, and for irony the Japs had purchased some German weapons before hostilities broke out between the Reich and the Empire... so the Japs have a few German tanks and StG 44 assault rifles. :eek: It's set on Madagascar.)

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Post #: 31
- 8/16/2002 5:52:37 PM   
Frank W.

 

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From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
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cool. i think japanese tanks wouldn´t stand a
chance against late war german ones....


[QUOTE]Originally posted by REMF
[B]

Thanks Frank, you made my day. I will be searching my poor deluded idiot mind for more "what if's," and a friend of mine is considering a Canada vs Quebec scenario for Les. :D

(BTW, [I]Japs vs Nazi's[/I] is shaping up nicely. There are Vichy Legionnaires, French planters with shotguns, and for irony the Japs had purchased some German weapons before hostilities broke out between the Reich and the Empire... so the Japs have a few German tanks and StG 44 assault rifles. :eek: It's set on Madagascar.) [/B][/QUOTE]

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Post #: 32
- 8/16/2002 6:30:52 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Joined: 12/29/2000
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No the painstakingly altering of Panzerblitz counters only indicates thoroughness, like after I get you with the FlammPz III (the ASL FlammPzIII not he Steel Panthers one), I will no doubt drive it back and forth over you to put out the flames (because leaving untended fires is irresponsible eh:D

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 33
- 8/16/2002 6:34:30 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Remf I challenge you to find the obscure book The Canadian Civil War (paperback), written back when the Quebecers that wanted to separate actually mattered in the news.

Oh we won that war two heheh.

BTW that is a real book (bit old now though).

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 34
- 8/16/2002 9:59:31 PM   
Warrior


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]Remf I challenge you to find the obscure book The Canadian Civil War (paperback), written back when the Quebecers that wanted to separate actually mattered in the news.

Oh we won that war two heheh.

BTW that is a real book (bit old now though). [/B][/QUOTE]

The Canadian Civil War wasn't my idea for a scenario, so I'll pass on trying to find the book (as interesting as it sounds). However, I think a nice border clash between the US and Canada has possibilities for a "what if." It's a shame we don't have an Oob for Mexico, also. :D

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Post #: 35
- 8/17/2002 2:07:37 AM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

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From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
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REMF,
Please do the US Canadian clash before 1965. I belive that the average Canadian citizen was allowed to have in his possetion automatic weapons before this date. I could be wrong on the exact date that Canadians started to lose their gun rights. Any how, the date shoul be set before the mass confiscation of automatic weapons. It would make for a better scenario!!
I know just a little about this, all my relatives are Quebecers and hunters.
Keep the what if's comming it's all in fun!! And if you can't have fun, well need I say more?;)

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KED

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Post #: 36
- 8/17/2002 3:01:59 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Hmmm better clarify a detail I just thought about to.

To any and all that might find my stance vis a vis Quebec annoying, being that I was born in labelle province, I am allowed to say things like "Stephane Dion you worthless waste of skin shut your festering cake hole you racist gob of snot" (wanted to write that into Maclean's magazine but they will never print that).

The material of said book though would never go far in today's environment. It's just not the same world anymore.
I think if the FLQ tried that stunt today, Bush would likely come up north and kill them all (not that I would mind heavily).

Now a match between the Canadians and the US hmmm. Wouldn't a match between the US and Al Queda be at least a bit more challenging?

Hasn't anyone looked at the way our army is equipped lately? Sure we are more aggressive and maybe superior to the average US soldier naked, but I don't expect the US to come up here without their "stuff".
I was trained one round one soldier, not because we like to hit our target on the first round, but because those rounds cost to much eh.
4 mags of 20 rounds in my FNC1A1, and if I couldn't drop at 30 enemy soldiers I would get my *** chewed out for being wasteful.
Now we have that bastardised M-16 wanna be in 5.56 and they bought it because the bullets are cheaper. You can believe what you want from the sell outs about wounding being more efficient. Screw efficient, I would rather kill the whole lot attacking my position and let the graves people deal with enemy dead when they are not to busy eh.

Only thing keeping invaders worried about invading Canada is our F**King humidity, and blackflies that can lift basketballs.

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Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 37
- 8/17/2002 4:57:06 AM   
GYBLIN

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: ocala florida
Status: offline
[QUOTE]Only thing keeping invaders worried about invading Canada is our F**King humidity, and blackflies that can lift basketballs.[/QUOTE]



I can reason with this because this is what keeps Castro from taking florida.Only we have mosquitoes that can double as mounts.:D

I would reject any invasion of canada simply because i love Rush.:cool:

just my two nickels...

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Post #: 38
- 8/17/2002 6:12:27 PM   
Ivan

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: Finland
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you guys get 4 clips
if im not mistaken a finnish soldier only gets the clip in the gun plus 1 extra clip.

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Post #: 39
- 8/18/2002 6:16:53 AM   
Cpt. Canuck

 

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Hi Les,

Keep your Humidity. It is a dry and pleasant 20C in Calgary. Sunny with a few clouds.

What is the time period for that book you mentioned? Was it the FLQ crisis of the early '70s or some other time the ungrateful Quebecois want to leave Canada, but still recieve governmental contact and transfer payments from Ontario and Alberta. :D

REMF what ever gave you the idea the Great Britain would capitulate in 1942? Battle of Britain was won, Battle of North Atlantic was shaping up nicely and Britain and Germany were fighting over Africa. August 42, Canada/Britain (mainly Canada) staged a major raid at Dieppe (with poor results). Not a dire situation that would cause the Brits to surrender in '43 without the Yanks.

Britains allies in Canada and Australia/New Zealand were ramping up war production. The **** Quebecers could not well be forced to fight for there beloved France, but they could **** well build stuff for the fight. (sorry for the national dig)

Germany certainly gave the USSR a bad body blow, but the little Corporal meddled too much. I think by late '42 or '43 things were going okay for the USSR without alot of help from the US of A.

In fact the whole Western front dominated by the US of A was kind of a minor action compared to the war fought on the Eastern Front. France was where Germany sent exhausted divisions from the Eastern Front.

What likely would have happened would be the Soviet republics of Germany, France, Holland and the rest of Western Europe would be re-building sometime around '46 or '47. The Soviets would then turn there attentions on Japan because ticked them off in '38 and smash them next.

The battle in the South Pacific between Japan vs. Australia/New Zealand and their guerilla armies in the Japanese conquered territories would be a most interesting fight. I am not sure that Japan could field the manpower to garrison all the conquered territories and invade Australia with proper strength. Remember Aus is big. Japan would also have to deal with Britain from the West (Burma) and maybe the hypothetical Canadian Western Fleet starting around '45 (remember the Canadian garrison troops were not well treated so we would have some cause to go after them). The Allies would have to develope the big fleet carrier to counter the Japanese, but since Britain at the time had small carriers and the finest Naval tradition at the time. (Canada actually had an aircraft carrier in the '50s I believe.) I think Canada could build this navy somewhat safely because Japan would not dare invade Canada for fear of bringing the Yankees into the fight. And if Australian is big, Canada is HUGE.

If the good ole US of A had not got off there collective A$$es in WW2, they would not have had the massive expansion of there economies (instead the British Commonwealth would have) and you would not be the pre-imminent power today that you are. The Cold War would have been fought between an even BIGGER USSR that included all of Europe except GB and parts of Asia like China, and the British Commonwealth (we might let back in if you were to ask nicely), but with a more questionable outcome.

Les, for a long range bomb delivery system, what about the Lanc? They were being made in Canada??

If you want to make an interesting scenario, pitt UK with Centurions and 25lber arty against Germany with Panthers and Tigers. You will want to do it BEFORE the Brits put the 20 lber gun in the Centurion.

Another interesting fight might be Centurions against Russian IS-2s or IS-3s.

How was that for an answer to your what if? Somewhat deflating your your Ameriaca ego and the idea that the US of A won the war all by yourselfs?

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Post #: 40
- 8/18/2002 7:11:17 AM   
troopie

 

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My favourite 'what if'. What if we were pigs?

troopie

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Post #: 41
- 8/18/2002 9:13:49 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Actually Cpt Canuck you missed the same point I missed originally.

He was only interested in postulating a carefully contrived fairy tale devoid of any real world realities, simply so he could endeavour to create the conditions necessary to have a world where the Germans didn't screw everything up like they did thanks to the equally babbling corporal. He thought it would be fun to see the Germans lock horns with the Japanese (even though that would never have happened even in the wierdest of fantasies).

Every good student of military history already knows the whole notion was a splendid poppycock farce from the get go, but hey some people just don't want to game out history (even though they are willing to stick their efforts into a historically limiting environment such as Earth of the 1940's).

I have found persons that actually like to take a wargame and just use all the pieces regardless if they don't belong in the starting force pool (although those persons are usually to young to read the rules).

So that is why this thread has been such a comical journey up to this point (although comic books are usually better written).

In regards to the book yes it was specifically during the FLQ crisis, and was a look at what might have happened if it had gone ugly. Very interesting read. Who knows it might even be hiding around here somewhere (but I don't know for sure).

As for the Lanc hmmm it had a massive payload capacity, but the B29 was specifically engineered for distance. It was pressurised which I think was uncommon then, and had almost no defensive guns in comparison to the B17 B24 and Lanc. Not sure the Lanc had the duration built into the design.

Particularly uncertain about eventual tank design evolution. The Germans might have eventually been out done by Centurion and IS types though. Those tanks were in the production/design spiral, but the Germans had not done much to go past the Royal Tiger, which while nasty, was not much for mobile warfare at all.

Of course the problem with all that, is it ruins the carefully crafted fantasy, where Britain just rolls over, the US runs and hides, Canada suddenly stops being the nation that it is (we have a noble history of helping trash nasty nations), and somehow the Russians inexplicably are less than able to beat the tar out of almost the entire German war machine single handed for 2 years.

A more interesting what if would be Japan realises it's idiotic to push the red button, never gets into an embargo and as a result is never trashed by the mainly US forces such that the US never gets put in a position to rebuild their nation and is therefore likely no further ahead 30 years later technologically. The world never finds out the names Sony, Tamiya, Honda and Pokemon.
Germany finds out that their erstwhile Russian allies are even more evil than they are during their glorious attack in France, when Stalin attacks at the moment they are least prepared. Stalin has not purged his finest military minds, and as a result his army is not led by inexperienced men but rather men hardened from the revolution. Stalin being a cool cucumber has decided to kill those men off after his world revolution is more concrete with the fall of Western Europe which the sucker Hitler made pathetically easy for him by wiping out the French and BEF.
The US enters in the nick of time to save Britain from a horde of out of control communism, but mainland Europe becomes a mystery behind an Iron Curtain Hitler would not have even dreamed possible. Jews intellectuals, people with to much wealth anyone born into nobility are all mysteriously vanishing unseen into the darker regions of the Russian Backyard.

of course, you can always pick the first fairy tale:D But mine doesn't have a happy ending. Humanity is extenguished in a nuclear holocaust (just like in all the crummy movies of the 70/80s) some time after 1960 when the Russians decide to push once to often.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Warrior)
Post #: 42
- 8/18/2002 11:39:49 PM   
Cpt. Canuck

 

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From: Calgary, Soon to be sovereign nation of Alberta
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Oh now be nice Les

If REMF wants to make a game of Germany vs Japan let him no matter how much it ignores the actual historical trends.

It is a game and he can play What Ifs all he likes.

As to a Canada vs Quebec Scenario. Quebec would be crushed since they would not have 90% of there province, and no conscription. I is only a small strip of land along the St. Lawrence that wants to separate and only a cooky minority withing that strip.

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Post #: 43
- 8/21/2002 3:04:38 AM   
Warrior


Posts: 1808
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From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by troopie
[B]My favourite 'what if'. What if we were pigs?

troopie [/B][/QUOTE]

I've met a few humans that were also pigs, so I don't consider this a true "what if." :D :D

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Post #: 44
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