Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Option 1: HR
Option 2: Reply in kind, I don't believe the problem is limited to one side.

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ORIGINAL: Zemke_4

Playing PBEM game for some time as Japan. My opponent has been using night bombing to hit my air fields with the allied two and four engined bombers. Ususlly I get hit with 20-30 MB at night, or a mix of MB and HB sometime more, sometimes less. What is happeneing is my airfields have been rendered usless by this bombing. Correct me if I am wrong, but given what the British went through trying to night bomb in Europe, I would think hitting an airfield at night would be pretty darn hard, or any other "point" targets. I can see hitting area targets, like cites no problem, but I think this is not a historical result, and hitting a blacked out air field at night would be pretty hard considering the Birtish seldom got within miles of their intented targets at night. I guess the Allied bomber force get an early upgrade to GPS navigation.

It is bad enough the Allied HB are untouchable in the day, now all allied bombers are untouchable at night and very accurate as well.

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ORIGINAL: Zemke_4

What I would like is this to be patched at some point so it does not affect either side, as I think it is unrealistic and not very historical.

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ORIGINAL: Zemke_4

What I would like is this to be patched at some point so it does not affect either side, as I think it is unrealistic and not very historical.

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ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

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ORIGINAL: Zemke_4

What I would like is this to be patched at some point so it does not affect either side, as I think it is unrealistic and not very historical.

Actually, during the prelude to the Normandy landings, it was found that RAF Bomber Command was MORE ACCURATE bombing at night than the US Eighth was during the day. True, results were pitifully inept when they started night bombing, but they got a whole lot better with practice, radar, and improved tactics.

The results in the game are a lot more historical and realistic than Japanese Torpedo Bombers hitting moving ships at sea while "level bombing" from 9,000 feet---which also happens regularly in the game.

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ORIGINAL: Puhis

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ORIGINAL: Zemke_4

Playing PBEM game for some time as Japan. My opponent has been using night bombing to hit my air fields with the allied two and four engined bombers. Ususlly I get hit with 20-30 MB at night, or a mix of MB and HB sometime more, sometimes less. What is happeneing is my airfields have been rendered usless by this bombing. Correct me if I am wrong, but given what the British went through trying to night bomb in Europe, I would think hitting an airfield at night would be pretty darn hard, or any other "point" targets. I can see hitting area targets, like cites no problem, but I think this is not a historical result, and hitting a blacked out air field at night would be pretty hard considering the Birtish seldom got within miles of their intented targets at night. I guess the Allied bomber force get an early upgrade to GPS navigation.

It is bad enough the Allied HB are untouchable in the day, now all allied bombers are untouchable at night and very accurate as well.

Have you tried fly CAP at night? Japanese fighters at night don't shot down anything, but I've noticed that they do reduce night bombing accuracy.

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ORIGINAL: Zemke_4

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ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

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ORIGINAL: Zemke_4

What I would like is this to be patched at some point so it does not affect either side, as I think it is unrealistic and not very historical.

Actually, during the prelude to the Normandy landings, it was found that RAF Bomber Command was MORE ACCURATE bombing at night than the US Eighth was during the day. True, results were pitifully inept when they started night bombing, but they got a whole lot better with practice, radar, and improved tactics.

The results in the game are a lot more historical and realistic than Japanese Torpedo Bombers hitting moving ships at sea while "level bombing" from 9,000 feet---which also happens regularly in the game.

This is an apples and oranges comparison, so I don't think they are "a lot more historical and realistic than Japanese Torpedo Bombers hitting moving ships at sea while "level bombing" from 9,000 feet", I think if anything it is worse. The reason is, in the game all planes that attack with torpedoes can be set to 9,000 ft, but it is assumed they drop to sea level when making their attack runs. They are not dropping torpedos from 9,000 ft. Neither side should be able to bomb point targets, and expect to hit much of anything at night. Bombing cities, that is different, it was routine and it worked, however, there is a big difference between hitting an airfield at night and a city, is all I am saying, and all I am asking for is not that there would never be damage to an airfield getting bombed at night, but that the chances of damage be reduced or that it be toned down a bit. My Japanese opponent is also bombing me at night, but he seems to not hit anything. So this is not an Allied vs Japan issue or game balance issue for me, but a realism/historical issue.

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... Japanese Torpedo Bombers hitting moving ships at sea while "level bombing" from 9,000 feet...

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ORIGINAL: FatR

It is possible to keep damage from night attacks within manageable limits by putting a night CAP and not overstacking airfields. The downside is, until you get some armored aircraft, this will cost your units that provide this night CAP against Allied 4E. The odds during nighttime air combat are shifted significantly in the favor of bombers. Presumably at least dedicated nightfighters become available.

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ORIGINAL: spence

Somebody said that the RAF did better dropping bombs at night than the 8th AF did in the day. They forgot to mention that the target for the 8th AF was a single building in a factory whereas the RAF hoped to put its bombs somewhere within the city limits of its target for the night. IRL night bombing in WWII had success only against civilian area targets. Such successes as it did have have since been deemed atrocities by many (not that I necessarily agree). Only very rarely did a night bombing attack achieve anything of immediate military importance.

It does seem to me that the only Allied bomber that can hit a Japanese ship in the early going is a Swordfish or Vildebeest dropping bombs (they don't do nearly as well with torpedoes). Same sorta goes for TBFs but their doctrine (with bombs) was to attack by glide bombing or at masthead height rather than by level bombing at altitude. IJN Doctrine for B5N Kates was to level bomb at altitude which was no more effective against moving targets than similar attacks by B17s.

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ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

I have found that placing a CAP at night does a lot of good in reducing the effectiveness of the bombers.

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ORIGINAL: Zemke_4
but this night bombing thing is really not very historically accurate at all IMHO.

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ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

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ORIGINAL: Zemke_4

What I would like is this to be patched at some point so it does not affect either side, as I think it is unrealistic and not very historical.

Another time this came, maybe 6-8 months ago, someone posted an account of the Japanese bombing Wake (?) with Betties, from some huge range away. It did happen. Moonlight, good dead-reckoning, and a steady hand on the stick helped I'm sure. An island is very much easier to bomb, if you can find it, than forested, rolling European countryside, from 20,000 ft. When I night bomb, I usually use 8,000 feet. Sometimes I get hits, often I don't. But it's worth the harrassment factor, certainly for the Allies early in places like Burma, where the devs gave the Japanese massive advantages in planes and pilots. Daylight anything as the allies is hopeless there in 1942.

I would be very much opposed to patching this out. If it's not favored by a playing pair, HR it.

IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES

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ORIGINAL: jomni

I just like to troll around bashing WITP AE for torturing us with so much detail that opens the flood gates for nitpickers.  Anyway, these nitpicks do make a better game. So keep going.    But I am an advocate far a simpler WITP with all the details hidden.  And I guess I'm in the minority. My reaction to this issue is not to complain about historical accuracy but find a way to counter it using game mechanics (CAP, evacuating the base, striking his bases, etc.). It's a game anyway.

On a technical note, I remember the devs say that the code breaks down during extreme cases.  Remember Death Star Artillery stacking? Ultra high altitude sweeping?  You may be right... maybe this night bombing devastation is also a similar case (too many big planes doing the night bombing). So I hope they can fix this. If not then you can have house rules if you want historical accuracy in the way you and your opponent sees it.

IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES