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RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 6:01:36 PM   
rickier65

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eniced73

Thanks. That clears things up. I was getting confused by using the insert key to try and plot my movements from cover to cover.


You'll appreciate another feature added to PCO then - Pathing by Cover. this is another path option like fastest or direct, except when you plot the destination point or waypoint using the Cover path setting, the unit attempts to use the best cover available to reach it's destination. waypoints are also quite helpful of course, between those two options, it is now MUCH easier to move your units and taking advantage of cover.

Rick

(in reply to eniced73)
Post #: 61
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 6:53:43 PM   
eniced73

 

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quote:

You'll appreciate another feature added to PCO then - Pathing by Cover. this is another path option like fastest or direct, except when you plot the destination point or waypoint using the Cover path setting, the unit attempts to use the best cover available to reach it's destination. waypoints are also quite helpful of course, between those two options, it is now MUCH easier to move your units and taking advantage of cover.

Rick


Definitely looking forward to that. I guess the 'fastest' path will follow roads first before any other terrain type. That would be great

< Message edited by eniced73 -- 10/8/2010 7:57:20 PM >

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Post #: 62
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 7:29:17 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Here's what the terrain map for Urrah looks like that Map Maker generated.

It could be all that you would want to do is draw in the roads.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 63
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 8:45:49 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		So I'm starting over with the Urrah map. I think it is too large for what I need. I'll keep the other map to use in the random scenarios/campaigns. This one will be a 1.5km per side instead of a 2km per side map. That cuts the area about in half.

Here is the map showing elevation as well as terrain.

You can see that I have 15 structures selected for this map. Those are all set to auto generate trees and brush.

This can be done in any order. I'm just showing you in this order so you can see the effects of 15 simple structure generations.

Notice the one with no light blue box around it. That's the one I set last. On the left of the map you'll see a description in the name box. That's a Beech of Medium stature.

Down directly under the name in the Gens box you will see I told MM to produce 5000 per kilometer of ground. Just to the right of that there is a small box with yellow coloring. That yellow color is where I want those 5000 trees on this map.

Good Hunting.

MR




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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/8/2010 8:48:52 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 64
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 8:51:05 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		When MM is finished building the map it gives me a report.

It tells me how many structures, etc. and how long it took to build the map. In this case all we've done is told MM to give us a forest. In varying degrees of density all over this map except where the village will be placed.

When it was done it shows I have 6 textures and 7971 trees. This map is now about half the size of the previous Urrah map used in the AAR. With about the same number of trees.

Let's see what difference that makes in our density.


Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/8/2010 8:52:30 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 65
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 8:56:23 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		This is what the map looks like now. Do you see more density and depth? More contrast?

That's the thing with Map Maker. As the map builder YOU decide how much, what color, what texture, how sharp or shaded, which structures/where/how many....it's all optional to the designer.

This map is now ready to add a couple of labels, about a dozen houses and another 50-60 trees in the village. Make a couple of height touch ups and it will be ready to fight again. The only thing I used from the 2km map was the terrain art work. I cut it down and resized it to fit and didn't have to redraw all that. Total time so far less than 2 hours.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 66
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 9:06:18 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I didn't like the way the brush was being made so I added 4000 to the order. From that I got 209 more brush.

We went from 7971 tree/brush to 8180 tree/brush and the only change I made was to the brush settings.

Now we go see what that looks like on the map.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 67
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 9:14:11 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Here are the results. Not what I wanted so I'm adding another 10,000 brush to be generated until I get the density I want.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 68
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 9:25:35 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Added another 738 brush to the map.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 69
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 9:26:25 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The brushy area now looks like this.

Better but not heavy yet.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 70
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 9:33:22 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		This build added another 361. We have now added 1308 brush to this map.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 71
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 9:36:08 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The brush now looks good. I'll put it in sandy soil or light mud to slow movement through it and it will do what I want.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 72
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 9:42:03 PM   
spellir74


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

The brushy area now looks like this.

Better but not heavy yet.

Good Hunting.

MR





That looks good.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 73
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/8/2010 9:50:35 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		One other thing Harry, you can easily show different depths of the forest by the tree selection you use. You could have beech and oak in the forest, and in deep forest pine and maple. The visual effects would be there that, "this is different".

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to spellir74)
Post #: 74
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/9/2010 1:36:11 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Here are the list of attributes that a color can be given. This is different than the texture assigned the color or the structures assigned to that color.

The attributes are if it's an obstruction, movement factors...etc...

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 75
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/10/2010 10:57:51 AM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

The brushy area now looks like this.

Better but not heavy yet.

Good Hunting.

MR






looks great! Much closer to the real thing now.

Also did found remaining questions answered here:

Tree improvement thread

Edit: What´s the lighting condition set for this map? Looks like a somewhat hazy day in the morning. How does that look in bright summer day (noon setting, no clouds or fog?

< Message edited by RockinHarry -- 10/10/2010 11:00:18 AM >

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Post #: 76
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/10/2010 4:11:05 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The lighting doesn't show up in the Scene Editor where you are seeing these SS taken from.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to RockinHarry)
Post #: 77
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/11/2010 9:56:40 AM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

The lighting doesn't show up in the Scene Editor where you are seeing these SS taken from.

Good Hunting.

MR



well ok, thanks.

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Post #: 78
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/11/2010 5:02:22 PM   
henius

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 8/20/2006
Status: offline 		Well... Can you post a pic with lighting so we can compare with your AAR?

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Post #: 79
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/11/2010 5:53:37 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Sure, here's what the lighting looks like.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to henius)
Post #: 80
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/11/2010 7:38:45 PM   
henius

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 8/20/2006
Status: offline 		Whoa, now THAT's a forest.

Thank you very big

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 81
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/12/2010 6:41:26 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Sure, here's what the lighting looks like.

Good Hunting.

MR





that confirms my assumption about dawn/dusk setting. Can you make another SS with a clear sky/noon setting on the same map and (roughly) same viewpoint?

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Post #: 82
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/12/2010 10:11:09 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Here are the Sky Box backgrounds I can choose from. It's just a matter of selecting one that doesn't represent dawn or dusk, changing the light color on the map back to white, resetting the ZFar back to normal and re-saving the map under a new name.

I was going to have to do this for other battles in the campaign anyway so I'll just do it now. I picked the second from left on the top row for our daytime sky.

Good Hunting.

MR




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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/12/2010 10:13:54 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to RockinHarry)
Post #: 83
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/12/2010 10:19:41 PM   
RocketMan


Posts: 718
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Delaware, USA
Status: offline 		Is there any way to add brush in the forested areas in Map Maker to represent undergrowth?

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 84
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/12/2010 10:51:49 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Yes. I can add any structure to any texture I want.

Basically, that means, I can put anything on the map, anywhere on the map.

What starts to be an issue is processing power. While it's possible for MM to put a million individual structures on a map, it's only possible for PCO to process so many of those. That's where the designer has to decide what he/she wants most as structures and what is of minimal value and may be lived without.

Some of my forests have brush in them. Most don't so that I can increase the density of the trees. If tree density isn't a priority, a more realistic forest, with brush included, might be.

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/12/2010 10:53:41 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to RocketMan)
Post #: 85
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/12/2010 10:52:02 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RocketMan

Is there any way to add brush in the forested areas in Map Maker to represent undergrowth?


Most certainly, most of my forests have brush in them.

Rick

(in reply to RocketMan)
Post #: 86
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/12/2010 11:17:02 PM   
lancer

 

Posts: 2963
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		G'day,

Some pretty impressive greenery here.

From reading this thread I see that LOS is diminished every time a tree intersects the path so the more trees on the ground the harder it is spot the bad guys.

Does 'brush' have any effect on LOS?

Cheers,
Lancer

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 87
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/12/2010 11:22:34 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Yes, brush affects LOS.

There are both height and width planes to a structure. Brush is no exception. But since Brush isn't as tall as a tree it won't have a height blocking ability like a tree. Since It's not as wide as a wall it won't block LOS laterally as far as a wall.

Trees are tall but not wide. Walls are wide but not tall. Brush is neither tall nor wide but for infantry lying on the ground can still provide cover and concealment.

Good Hunting.

MR




_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to lancer)
Post #: 88
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/12/2010 11:27:51 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		This is one of those rare instances where multiple battles took place over the same ground. There were at least six battles fought for this village in a three day period.

So, the same map with different lighting and weather conditions can cover all six of those. That makes it very easy to put into a campaign.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 89
RE: Forest terrain - - 10/13/2010 1:03:31 AM   
lancer

 

Posts: 2963
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		G'day,

O.K, thanks for the info on brush. Looks good.

This is a very nice map you've made. Is it something that could be used for a randomly generated battle?

Cheers,
Lancer

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 90
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