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Transport TF creation/deletion

 
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Transport TF creation/deletion - 8/20/2002 10:36:31 AM   
popejoy1

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 8/20/2002
Status: offline 		Situation: The AI is being inefficient about loading my ground units into small troop convoys. Some ground units are being only partially loaded, so I'm loading one ship at a time (for each ground unit, create a "temporary" TF with one transport, load the correct ground unit, then reassign the transport to the main convoy TF ["temporary" TF disbands automatically because there are no ships left in it], repeat).

Problem: When I create the next "temporary" TF, the game assigns the lowest available TF number, which is the same as that of the previous (now-disbanded) "temporary" TF; however, the newly created task force is already shown as loading troops, even though it has just been created. As a result, transports in the new "temporary" TF cannot load any troops. It appears that somehow the "troop loading" flag is being remembered when a new transport TF is created with the old ID number.

Thank you for your attention.
Post #: 1
- 8/20/2002 10:53:36 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		The transport loading mechanics are, by nature, imprecise. This, I think, is due to the scale of the game, not a shortcoming in the design.

As an operational commander, you order your subordinates to "take these resources and do that thing." Trying to intervene in the specific loading of a particular transport or cargo ship, as far as I'm concerned, misunderstands the concept.

Form that TF. Make sure you have sufficient ships of the appropriate size to accomplish the mission. Order them to be loaded and dispatched (actually, in terms of the game mechanics, you have to order them to their destination and then specify what you want loaded - an idiosyncrasy, perhaps).

The joy (or curse) of command at this level is in evaluating your resources and assigning them intelligently to the accomplishment of their mission. What good is it, for example, to craft a precisely loaded troop transport convoy when analysis of the strategic and operational situation reveals that you cannot support the intended move with sufficient air and naval combat forces - in your opinion, Admiral?

My advice (and I ain't no expert) is to think in terms of integrated groups of forces bent on accomplishing a common goal, not concentrate on tactical specifics. Due to the scale and design of the game, those specifics are often not there to be managed.

Give 'em hell, Halsey (or Yamamoto, as you prefer).

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to popejoy1)
Post #: 2
- 8/20/2002 7:54:35 PM   
BPRE

 

Posts: 624
Joined: 10/16/2000
From: Stockholm,Sweden
Status: offline 		Hi,

Pasternakski, I think that's a pretty good explanation as to why the transport loading mechanism has been designed as it is but I don't agree that the game behaves OK when you create a new TF in this case.
It looks like a simple mistake of not initialising all values correctly when creating the TF or the instance of the TF or whatever.

Popejoy1, have you tried to cancel the loading and then ordering the loading of troops again?
If I remember it correctly I've made the mistake sometimes to order the loading before setting the destination. I've then cancelled the loading, set the destination and ordered the loading again. I think that worked. It's not exactly the same as your example but it might work. I can't test it myself because I'm at work right now.

Regards
/BPRE

(in reply to popejoy1)
Post #: 3
Back To The Future Please - 8/20/2002 10:15:18 PM   
Black Cat

 

Posts: 615
Joined: 7/4/2002
Status: offline 		with WITP, wherein I hope they go back to the pure transports and pure supply /cargo ships as in PW.

This system is overly complicated, doesn`t work, as well as resulting in loading/unloading problems, especially in assault landings.

Everyone has probs with it as it is now.......

(in reply to popejoy1)
Post #: 4
- 8/21/2002 7:39:28 PM   
popejoy1

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 8/20/2002
Status: offline 		All,

Thank you very much for your thoughts and comments - Paul javascript:smilie(':)')
smile

Pasternaski,

As "Halsey" I agree my subordinates (the computer) should have flexibility in HOW it accomplishes the goal as long as the goal IS accomplished. The details of my situation: I sent a 3000 capacity transport and a 1500 capacity transport to pick up a 2400 point unit and a 300 point unit. The AI loaded the 300 point unit into the 3000 capacity transport, and partially loaded the 2400 point unit into the 1500 capacity transport. In a large convoy (such as invading Guadalcanal with the 1st Marine Division), there are so many ships that this doesn't seem to be a problem. In a small convoy, or a situation where resources are tight, it can be pretty disruptive.

BPRE,

I tried "unload", but when I tried reloading it said it wasn't allowed. I forget the exact message, but it seemed to me that unloading an empty troopship had caused some additional problems.

As a workaround, I now create all the "temporary" transport TFs I'll need before I start merging them, which prevents the "used" TF issue from affecting me.

(in reply to popejoy1)
Post #: 5
- 8/24/2002 12:54:52 PM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by popejoy1
[B]As "Halsey" I agree my subordinates (the computer) should have flexibility in HOW it accomplishes the goal as long as the goal IS accomplished. The details of my situation: I sent a 3000 capacity transport and a 1500 capacity transport to pick up a 2400 point unit and a 300 point unit. The AI loaded the 300 point unit into the 3000 capacity transport, and partially loaded the 2400 point unit into the 1500 capacity transport. In a large convoy (such as invading Guadalcanal with the 1st Marine Division), there are so many ships that this doesn't seem to be a problem. In a small convoy, or a situation where resources are tight, it can be pretty disruptive.
As a workaround, I now create all the "temporary" transport TFs I'll need before I start merging them, which prevents the "used" TF issue from affecting me. [/B][/QUOTE]

I have this problem too, and I think it may have to do with the order units are listed in (both ships and LCUs). I hate to think that the game engine is so unsophisticated as to load the first unit on the list without considering that it may be going onto a very large transport while the next unit to be loaded is too big to get onto the next transport in the TF. Unfortunately, that seems to be the case.

Game on, fellow long-suffering theater commander. It sounds like you're "making it up as you go along" just like CINCPAC planned for us ...

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to popejoy1)
Post #: 6
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