Construction ship epic logistics fail

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Construction ship epic logistics fail - 10/26/2010 4:10:03 AM

WriterNotViking

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From: The Netherlands
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So I had this idea: build a ridiculously powerful, utterly self-sufficient starbase at a gas giant around which orbited the capital moon of a rival. I'd declare war, the starbase would pound orbital defenses into dust and utterly deny my enemy access to his capital. I sent my construction ship to carry out my nefarious plan. After a while I checked on construction, and found there were 152 components still unbuilt. This number didn't change. My plan was foiled.

Not enough cargo space in my constructor, surely. I redesigned the bugger and tried again.

Got to 88 parts. Then, nothing.

After some cursing and some research, I found out what the problem was. My construction ship was only making one stop to load resources. If the planet/spaceport it visited didn't have all the necessary supplies, too bad for the Emperor, we'll just give him half a starbase.

So far, my only solution has been to send the constructor to build the base, then cancel its orders after it loads supplies, issue the same order again, watch as it loads supplies again elsewhere, cancel the order, and repeat. The ship needed three separate stops to load all the necessary resources.

A bug? Bad planning in my empire? Sheer incompetence triggered by the mammoth, glacier-like bureaucracy of an empire spanning hundreds of worlds and trillions of people? Just to be sure, I tossed the desk monkeys involved into a black hole.

Anyone else encounter this, or something similar?

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RE: Construction ship epic logistics fail - 10/26/2010 7:39:08 AM

Krob

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Does your constructor have docking bays? On big projects it should be able to get resupplied, though I'm not sure if that happens if you're deep in another's territory.

K

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RE: Construction ship epic logistics fail - 10/27/2010 3:01:42 AM

WriterNotViking

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From: The Netherlands
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It has a docking bay, yes... As a matter of fact, I think it's a requirement. You make a good point, but I may have neglected to make clear that at the time of the base's construction, there was no war with these guys yet. Still, far from home territory, one might run into some supply problems. Which would make it all the more crucial to make sure you have everything you need when going off to build a giant space station...

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RE: Construction ship epic logistics fail - 10/27/2010 12:39:33 PM

Aures

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I built some stuff way in the back of beyond when I was testing things (specifically, testing how much spice I could extract from a planet on the other side of the map to my empire more than 3 sectors from my nearest colony). It did eventually get supplied but I was running at x4 and I didn't care how long it took. If freighters are able to pick up the required cargo they will eventually come to supply the construction ship. Of course, my tests weren't done right next to an enemy planet.

I have built a number of size 4500 bases including the above one without issue, it just takes a while for freighters to come to you.

If your construction ship is too far from a space port when it comes time to build something it will just go directly there rather than picking up stuff from a space port. I guess there is some algorithm it used to decide which would be quicker.

So maybe the problem was impatience. You could load a save and run it on x4 to test whether the base will ever get built. If it doesn't then maybe your supply situation is cruddy (which it sounds like it is if no colonies have enough spare resources to build the base). I can't rule out some kind of bug though.

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RE: Construction ship epic logistics fail - 10/28/2010 4:54:40 AM

Jeeves

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You need to have supplies for a construction project at the nearest ACTIVE (as opposed to completed) spaceport for a construction job. A spaceport becomes active when its docks are added to the components built list, provided there are also life support and habitation. See the spaceports list and examine components of the spaceport for the system nearest the project. Then check cargo immediately after you order the project. If the spaceport is active, then you will see a list of resources in the reserved column which the constructor has requested for its project. If those reserved resources are not available in stock by the time the constructor has arrived at the spaceport, docked, and loaded everything else, then the constructor WILL leave dock without necessary supplies. I have watched constructors wait for YEARS at the site for a miserable few aculon, fibre, krypton or whatever.

The solution is to watch your constructors at work using the list of mining bases or whatever is applicable for the project. When the construction project has stalled (watch the un-built value), check the work site constructor's cargo list. If there is some mineral in the list which has a value in the reserved column but no stock, then you have a problem. One solution is of course never to order construction work where resources will be lacking, but that is no help for auto-run constructors. The ultimate fix is, rather than ordering the project yet again, to order a move away from the project, then once the constructor has abandoned its work, order a REPAIR of the project. My constructors are all heavily armed, and are often called upon to fight pirates. Once the pirate is dead, I order a repair of the incomplete project. The constructor goes back to the work site and resumes work as though nothing had happened to interrupt it. HINT - give your constructors at least 400 fuel...

If you are having trouble keeping your spaceports stocked, then chances are that you have choked the civilian economy too much with high taxes. Your civilians will repay you handsomely if you reduces taxes, letting them buy more freighters and miners. Once my economy is started by building a couple or three new spaceports, I reduce taxes at the home world to whatever level has the civilians satisfied with the tax rate. I never tax a colony in excess of 1% until it has an economy of 20k plus, preferably 100k, but sometimes I find the civilians are overbuilding so I do it sooner. Your tax rate severely impacts citizen happiness and population growth rate, but you probably already noticed that...

< Message edited by Jeeves -- 10/28/2010 5:03:23 AM >

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RE: Construction ship epic logistics fail - 10/28/2010 5:31:29 AM

Aures

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Good advice with the repair order Jeeves. I haven't played with it much but if you order a constructor near a space port to repair a base that is still being constructed will it go to the space port to pick up any resources it needs?

As for lowering taxes at your home world don't forget that lowering tax rates will reduce emigration. In the early game if you reduce taxes at your home world it will cause immigration to new colonies to drop and so slow their growth.

_____________________________

Most of my Empires are too big

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RE: Construction ship epic logistics fail - 10/28/2010 6:01:42 AM

Jeeves

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I have ordered repairs on the World destroyers, which went to the nearest ACTIVE space port to pick up all those resources. Also I have ordered repairs on work interrupted due to a fight a half dozen or so times, but as far as I know there was no resource shortage required for those. I guess that I don't really know whether the constructor will go to a spaceport to pickup supplies or not if the work stalled due to a shortage. In the case I cited above of my waiting years, the spaceport was no blasted help because it was one of those free spaceports rather than a colony. Most of the supplies at the site were delivered by freighter over the course of a year and a half, but then the freighters stopped coming for that last tiny requirement. I finally just told that constructor to do something else rather than ordering it to do a repair...

At the start of the game, your tax rate should be set as high as your population will tolerate with a satisfied rather than smiling face, try for compliance of 95-98% on tax collection. But once you have another two or three colonies with spaceport yards active, my advice is to cut taxes way back so that your civilians have the money to buy ships. Their freighters will move your goods, their miners will pickup luxuries and minerals near your spaceports, and your population will grow MUCH faster...

Only when the civilians cause a severe resource shortage do I hammer them down with maximum taxes. If they have plenty of cash but your empire is suffering from shortages in excess of 50% in several key strategics according to the expansion planner, then at your home world and bigger colonies, jack the tax rate up until there is about 98% compliance on tax collection at each colony...

(in reply to Aures)

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RE: Construction ship epic logistics fail - 10/28/2010 6:59:49 AM

Aures

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Oh yeah, forgot about world destroyers. I guess we can assume it works the same for other things that need resources to repair.

Taxes are one of the few things I leave automated almost all the time, the only occasion I have really changed them is to help calm rebelling populations.

My experiences with the civilian economy sound different to some peoples. I have never managed to have anything but a really healthy profit for the civilian economy (including starting empires with harsh home systems). After a while they have 10s of millions of cash on hand and that figure is always growing. My freighter construction is always limited by the amount of new ones they feel they need at any given point or space port capacity rather than the cash to buy them. I seriously doubt that civilian ship construction would be increased in any of my games by lowering taxes. For most of the colony rush my space ports are backed up with orders for civilian craft as it is (I tend to build stripped down medium space ports all over the place rather than small ones, partly because I get so many civilian ship orders that they basically finance my expansion and space ports).

Most of the time I play Teekan so the racial bonuses probably really helps the civilian economy, but I have never run into a situation where the civilian economy is short on cash or is making a loss with any other race. I usually play 1400 star systems so I guess that means easier access to resources in the early game. I also tend to play with 19 manually created AI empires to cover all the races so that probably helps my civilian economy as well.

_____________________________

Most of my Empires are too big

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RE: Construction ship epic logistics fail - 10/28/2010 9:06:56 AM

Jeeves

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My experience is based upon Humans, Atuuks, and Kiadians. I am currently trying out an Ackdarian. I think that your experience with Teekans is different from mine, because in all of the games which I have played, the Teekans were either the richest AI, or right up there. The only competition for them that I have seen are Securans and Ackdarians, and me of course once I get rolling - I am usually #1 economy by the 2nd year, regardless of what race I play. I have seldom seen my civilians with over a year's income of cash in the bank, because I build my spaceports with 3 yards small, 6 yards medium, and 12 yards large. Of course this makes them cost more and take longer to complete, with all the extra manufacturing plants, but they always pay me back as soon as the yards start building civilian ships.

Suggestion - it may be that your yard queues are always full because you provide insufficient manufacturing plants given your yard technology level. If your yard rate is high but your manufacturing tech lags, then you need two manufacturing plants PER YARD rather than one, and I always add 30% extra of industrial plants to build all those cargo and passenger modules. Try my advice on extra plants and see if your yards build quicker. It should take only 3-4 months per civilian ship to build in each yard.

Do NOT follow this advice in the earliest part of the game when you are planting your first few independent worlds, wait until your home world development level has increased to 80% or better, otherwise your spaceport maintenance could crash your empire economy while making the civilians very happy. I look for a profit level of about 200k to start this strategy, simply calculated by empire revenue minus total ship/base maintenance, troop and spy maintenance, and about 20k margin per year of fuel costs.

(in reply to Aures)

Post #: 9