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How'd you like your DW, fast or slow?

 
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How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 10/31/2010 1:26:39 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I'm interested to know what players would prefer. Do we want a slow paced game, with research slow (the way it is now) and expansion made slower? Or would we like a fast paced game with research greatly increased and expansion left the way it is now?

If there are a mix of responses to this, then perhaps a new slider alongside the research speed to set the expansion speed?

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 10/31/2010 2:17:03 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		The game does not have an extensive research tree.I like 4X games that have large tech trees that should not be nearing maxing out until a very late game.

With faster research DW will max out tech very quickly.


I think the actual expansion speed is okay is it just the actual game date that kills immersion.You explore the whole galaxy and colonise many planets in under 10 years game time.I would like the game date speeded up in the expansion pack.

< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 10/31/2010 2:29:51 PM >

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 10/31/2010 2:47:18 PM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		Me personally, as slow as possible 

I set planets quality to low, independents to low, homeworld to low, research to slowest, galaxy size to highest.

Then, to give the AI a little boost because the don't do too well with all the lowest settings, especially homeworld set to worst quality, I give all the aggressive races starting size young, the high population growth ones homeworld trying rather than harsh and the intelligent races one notch up in research, seems to be making for a pretty good game so far!


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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 10/31/2010 3:31:54 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
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From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Extremely slow here. If I start a game that never ends I'm quite all-right with that. Hmm...coming from a WiTP player, are you really surprised?

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 10/31/2010 3:56:24 PM   
Bozz

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 5/7/2010
Status: offline 		Same as Shark7 I like games that never finish,

It also could be cool to slow down the ships perhaps

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 10/31/2010 4:38:41 PM   
Simulation01


Posts: 540
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		Give me a slider.  I also want to be able to control what I'm researching to a greater degree.

Edit:

The more options the better....when you limit the choices of the player you deny him/her enjoyment.

< Message edited by Simulation01 -- 10/31/2010 4:39:49 PM >

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 10/31/2010 6:01:33 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Me personally, as slow as possible 

I set planets quality to low, independents to low, homeworld to low, research to slowest, galaxy size to highest.

Then, to give the AI a little boost because the don't do too well with all the lowest settings, especially homeworld set to worst quality, I give all the aggressive races starting size young, the high population growth ones homeworld trying rather than harsh and the intelligent races one notch up in research, seems to be making for a pretty good game so far!



Absolutely with you WoodMan.

The slower the pace the better. It adds much to the atmosphere of a giant galaxy evolving over a huge timeframe.
I am not far enough into the game to comment on mid-endgame situations, but in case a faster pace is wanted why not simply set close to all except some fast reaciton fleets to AI
and pump the gamespeed to the max?

That said, expansion could be a tad slower. This is not so much due to colonies evolving to fast, they are quite ok in that regard, but more that ressource costs an maintenance costs
are comparably low, so you are able to support a huge ammount of mining stations across a big junk of the galaxy even if you only own 2-3 more or less developed colonies.
Ships speeds on the other hand are ok now, its just the ammount and size of milk-cows you can create is a bit high for my taste.

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 10/31/2010 6:45:39 PM   
WoodMan


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From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		LoBaron, have you tried setting your homeplanet to Harsh and playing with all low quality planets, at first I always used to get stuck at around the three colonies mark, with such a low starting population and no large populations of independents to absorb (the main thing that affects speed of expansion in my opinion) you will struggle to make enough money for a colonyship, even though you found the colonizable planets 

I've learnt now and got a bit better at saving money, but its still very slow (can't afford Explorers, got to scrap your destroyer sometimes, troops gotta go too, can't afford the maintenance on them ).


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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 10/31/2010 8:17:11 PM   
Fishers of Men


Posts: 329
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From: Fishers, IN USA
Status: offline 		I set research speed on very slow. Because the tech tree is small, I want each advance to mean a lot to the impact it makes on the game. I don't really want to reach the end of the tree before the game is over. I also play with the real-time speed set at 0.25. I am just now quick enough to make so many decisions at one time. I still do a lot of pausing to stop my head from spinning.

FoM

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 10/31/2010 8:54:21 PM   
J HG T


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From: Kiadia Prime
Status: offline 		Everything to low/few etc. May vary depending on what kind of game I want to have. Research to very slow. Galaxy size anything between small to large (Or whatever my 1GB comp can handle). Those work best for me. I enjoy fairly slow games where I can watch the galaxy develop and change, but I still like to finish them.

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 10/31/2010 11:18:57 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Seems like a slider should be the way to go. I'm firmly in the 'slow going' camp, but like Simulation01 says, the more options the better for the player.

Thanks for the opinions guys. Keep 'em coming.

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/1/2010 12:55:17 AM   
sandman2575


Posts: 310
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		I like the slow pace in general -- one of the knocks i always had on Civilization was that (great though it was), tech speed always seemed to be outstripping history -- seemed like no sooner than you discovered Chivalry and got knights than you were also discovering gunpowder that made them obsolete, etc. (i know you can slow this down now with 'marathon' game play, btw).

Still, I agree with Ashbery76 that the calendar time and exploration time seem a bit out of whack -- a decade to colonize and explore the known galaxy doesn't seem right. Also, seems like you can set up 20 colonies before you make your first tech breakthrough, which also seems a bit out of balance.

(Regardless, DW is a fantastic game -- these are just very minor gripes on my part)

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/1/2010 1:24:09 AM   
shinobu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Extremely slow here. If I start a game that never ends I'm quite all-right with that.


Agreed...

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/1/2010 7:32:58 AM   
martok


Posts: 837
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline 		Like most players in this thread, I generally prefer a slower pace. I've always enjoyed games where I actually had time to think, instead of just frantically trying to mouse-click my way to victory.



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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/1/2010 9:36:55 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

LoBaron, have you tried setting your homeplanet to Harsh and playing with all low quality planets, at first I always used to get stuck at around the three colonies mark, with such a low starting population and no large populations of independents to absorb (the main thing that affects speed of expansion in my opinion) you will struggle to make enough money for a colonyship, even though you found the colonizable planets 

I've learnt now and got a bit better at saving money, but its still very slow (can't afford Explorers, got to scrap your destroyer sometimes, troops gotta go too, can't afford the maintenance on them ).



Heheh...you got me there. No, I havent.

My home system is "acceptable", but planet quality is set to the second lowest.
Still I am swimming in ressources though, gathered from a relatively small radius around my home system.

There IS a lack of colonizable planets, but its ressources from mining stations that I have by far too many. Is this also negatively influenced by the planet quality slider?
And how does the AI cope with a very poor galaxy?


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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/1/2010 10:26:17 AM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		With Harsh home system you will not get a second planet to colonize in your homesystem and less resources in your home system so you have to go find them at the start.  Sometimes if very lucky you get a second planet in homesystem to colonize, in my current game I had an independent of same race in my home system, lucky me . 

Resources aren't really any rarer I *think* with low planet quality across the galaxy, but the harsher start condition means you have to decide what to buy early on, buying several explorers is an option that might prove bankrupting, but then you need to judge your finances and make sure you get the Explorers when you can afford it, its good fun, a bit more decision making early on.  You will find yourself in the civ overview screen looking at your finances and thinking, hmm, I need to find 8k of savings, what shall I cut, what shall I keep

As for the AI, I find it bes to give them a slight boost, the galaxy itself doesn't affect their performance, but the start conditions do.  As i said before for any nation that has aggression as its strength I set their starting same as me but increase starting size to Young, for high populations/Utopias I set planet quality to one notch higher than me, and for intelligent races I set their starting research up a notch.  At the moment it making an interesting game where the AI is competative, I don't have the highest tech, economy, colonies or military but I'm not last in either of them either

Edit: I forgot, I highly recommend Space Creatures and Pirates on low if you use these settings! Otherwise they can prevent the AI (and even you) getting off the ground, remember pirates assume the tech of nearby nations, so you might find yourself fighting higher tech pirates!

< Message edited by WoodMan -- 11/1/2010 10:30:51 AM >

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/2/2010 12:57:23 AM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
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From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline 		I like stuff moving slowly.  

Not painfully slow, just annoyingly slow.


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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/3/2010 4:47:41 PM   
adecoy95


Posts: 420
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline 		i dont really mind if distant worlds is fast or slow, but i do wish it was a little more consistent. like i said in another thread, the speed at witch things happen seems to not be consistent, ships move and build extremely fast compared to the growth rate and research speed of colonies. i am playing a game right now with the fastest growing race in the game (securian + utopia gov), i had over a hundred and fifty worlds, and none of the planets i colonized, even the ones in my starting worlds, had a notable population... however, i did manage to get some of them to have alot larger population than i normally have in games by customizing the passenger ships to hold 5-10 million passengers instead of only 600k.

also, for the record, i had direct access to all three super luxury resources

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/3/2010 6:12:37 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

i dont really mind if distant worlds is fast or slow, but i do wish it was a little more consistent. like i said in another thread, the speed at witch things happen seems to not be consistent, ships move and build extremely fast compared to the growth rate and research speed of colonies. i am playing a game right now with the fastest growing race in the game (securian + utopia gov), i had over a hundred and fifty worlds, and none of the planets i colonized, even the ones in my starting worlds, had a notable population... however, i did manage to get some of them to have alot larger population than i normally have in games by customizing the passenger ships to hold 5-10 million passengers instead of only 600k.

also, for the record, i had direct access to all three super luxury resources



Population growth is alot slower than other 4x games. However I find this more realistic and it does highlight the importance of your homeworld and rightly so IMO.

I don't see any way around the inconsistencies of the time scale. Perhaps we should have more sliders for population growth and construction build times? Would that be too much?

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/3/2010 6:50:33 PM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		Quite a discussion here, I have to admit, in my opinion the speed of the game and the passing of time (the dates) is something I would not change.  They got almost everything right with the game, but almost means that they can still improve these aspects, but when it comes to the speed of the game and passage of time its the one aspect I would say "DO NOT TOUCH"!

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/3/2010 7:28:38 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		My main intent is to slow down the ship's hyperdrive speed and increase the cost of colonization modules in an attempt to slow down empire expansion. I find that the expansion phase of the game is my favourite, but it's over too quickly with the AI empires expanding right up to my doorstep no sooner than a couple of game months.

Of course there are other things that could be done to limit empire expansion. I'd like to see some isolationist, unfriendly aliens who build a small but well defended empire but don't expand any further than their own territory. Also, most of us would like some sort of empire border or a claim system for planets to prevent other empires 'moving in' to the desert planet next door to their home system.

For now, though, I'm hoping to be able to mod some components with the new expansion. It might happen, it might not.


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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/3/2010 7:55:40 PM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
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From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline
quote:

Also, most of us would like some sort of empire border or a claim system for planets to prevent other empires 'moving in' to the desert planet next door to their home system.


Not sure if I brought this up once before in a different thread, I can't remember but its something I thought of a while ago.  Colonies should have a sphere of influence around them, basically a circle on the map that appears as semi transparent colour of the Empire in question (this should be toggleable with a button on the UI, because it would get very annoying eventually being permenantly on the map, but a toggle to see the spheres of influence would be great.  The more aggressive the race the large the sphere of influence is.  Anyone who colonizes within someone else sphere of influence of builds mining bases, or has non allied military ships in someone elses sphere should lead to a - number in the diplomacy screen.  For example -5 your military ships tresspass in our territory, -8 your mining installations tresspass in our territory, -10 your colonies tresspass in our territory and so on.  It could also be applied to the dotted lines that represent major trade routes for the Empires, , but in this case rather than a sphere  just a much thicker line (again only viewable when toggled on), the more aggressive the race the thicker the line.

Aggressive or reckless races should care less about intruding on their neighbours territory, but passive and cautious races would avoid doing so.


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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/3/2010 8:25:23 PM   
Igard


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Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I don't remember reading that before, WoodMan. It sounds like an ideal solution as it would still allow for certain aggressive races to cause mischief.

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/4/2010 4:10:23 AM   
WriterNotViking


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From: The Netherlands
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Slooooooow. Imagine true galactic expansion, and how slow it would have to be.

Upgrading your ships should be worth the cost, which it isn't if you develop a new weapon system two years down the line. Also consider ship construction speed. I once detected an enemy fleet on approach to one of my systems. I had time to construct a dozen escorts to aid the static defenses, and I had an easy victory. That simply shouldn't be possible! Warships are investments, major ones that take time to pay off. Look at World War 2: the naval aspect that war was fought for the most part with forces already extant at the outbreak of the conflict. The United States halted the Japanese advance with the same ships they already had; Essex class carriers and the like didn't show up until 1943. British wartime carriers took even longer to join in.

I guess what I'm saying is, I'd like my decisions to have far-reaching consequences. If my neighbor is spoiling for war and I ignore the signs, I should pay for that by getting steamrolled in a month, because any ships I order after war starts would still exist only as blueprints and raw materials by the time my kind is enslaved and sent to the spice mines.

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/4/2010 3:49:25 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Slowing DW down could be accomplished with a vastly expanded tech tree. More tech, especially when research is set to very slow, it simply takes longer to build the higher level techs. A really robust tech tree would have hyperdrives advancing 1000 per discovery, rather than 5k at a time.

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/4/2010 6:05:06 PM   
adecoy95


Posts: 420
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline 		something that would go a really, really long way in making the pace of the game feel good to me is having colonies cost income until they reach a certain level of development. it would make choosing colonies, defending them, and making shure they grow much, much more important, right now i feel like im just going down the list until no worlds remain to colonize


also, just to add a little bit to my previous post in this thread, here is a screenshot of the second world in the game i colonized, just a stones throw from my homeworld, since they are both moons of the gas giant

i was going to post a save file, to let others poke my game and see if i am just doing something wrong, but this forum does not support that so... currently in the game i have around 250 worlds or so, that troop transport hovering over the transport is 850 size (i found the red claw, twice. nice, but way powerful, topic for another thread)




Attachment (1)

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/5/2010 12:23:20 AM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Super Duper Ultra Trooper 

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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/5/2010 8:28:24 PM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
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From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

quote:

Also, most of us would like some sort of empire border or a claim system for planets to prevent other empires 'moving in' to the desert planet next door to their home system.


Not sure if I brought this up once before in a different thread, I can't remember but its something I thought of a while ago.  Colonies should have a sphere of influence around them, basically a circle on the map that appears as semi transparent colour of the Empire in question (this should be toggleable with a button on the UI, because it would get very annoying eventually being permenantly on the map, but a toggle to see the spheres of influence would be great.  The more aggressive the race the large the sphere of influence is.  Anyone who colonizes within someone else sphere of influence of builds mining bases, or has non allied military ships in someone elses sphere should lead to a - number in the diplomacy screen.  For example -5 your military ships tresspass in our territory, -8 your mining installations tresspass in our territory, -10 your colonies tresspass in our territory and so on.  It could also be applied to the dotted lines that represent major trade routes for the Empires, , but in this case rather than a sphere  just a much thicker line (again only viewable when toggled on), the more aggressive the race the thicker the line.

Aggressive or reckless races should care less about intruding on their neighbours territory, but passive and cautious races would avoid doing so.



Aren't diplo relations already penalized for having stuff built in the same system together? Or something to that effect?


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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/5/2010 9:59:44 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

Aren't diplo relations already penalized for having stuff built in the same system together? Or something to that effect?



Yes that's true, but this is would prevent empires moving into a star system inside your empire's border or hypothetical border. Not just a planet inside one of your systems, but a system inside where you think you're empire has complete control.


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RE: How'd you like your DW, fast or slow? - 11/6/2010 12:41:39 AM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		Yeah, by sphere of influence I mean a bit bigger than a system.  The kind of size I'm thinking would in the dense clusters perhaps cover 4 or 5 nearby systems, but around the edge of the galaxy where they are further apart it might cover no extra systems at all.  The more aggressive the race, the larger the spheres.

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