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RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem

 
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RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/6/2010 10:09:34 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Is someone (JuanG, John 3rd, or FatR) going to post this problem in Tech Support to get feedback there about reload problem??

(in reply to JuanG)
Post #: 421
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/6/2010 10:17:05 PM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		I had various ammo problems. Forming a single-ship TF from a battleship and disbanding it into port seems to be the most reliable way of reloading ammo. Even then, the port might not have enough ops points to reload everything in a single day, particularly if it is busy with other operations. I don't think this is scenario-related, except for the increase of ammo per gun.

(in reply to JuanG)
Post #: 422
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/6/2010 10:18:47 PM   
JuanG


Posts: 906
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR

I had various ammo problems. Forming a single-ship TF from a battleship and disbanding it into port seems to be the most reliable way of reloading ammo. Even then, the port might not have enough ops points to reload everything in a single day, particularly if it is busy with other operations.


Have to admit to not having tried the disbanding solution, but I dont think it would be any different. Will give it a shot though, as it would circumvent the need for a temporary fix update, as long as people are aware of it.

UPDATE:
Seems like the disband reload has the same limit, in otherwords only the smaller rear batteries will reload. Was a good idea however...

< Message edited by JuanG -- 11/6/2010 10:22:00 PM >

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(in reply to FatR)
Post #: 423
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/6/2010 10:26:03 PM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		Tried it with Yamato, still doesn't work. I used disbanding trick to rearm my battleships in ports too small for them to dock, but with enough naval support...

Juan, which ships in RA, besides Yamato, might be affected by this bug? I'll apply the fix of splitting oversized weapon groups to Scen 70 as soon, as I can.

(in reply to JuanG)
Post #: 424
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/6/2010 10:28:21 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		It's like to officially say that this sucks...

On the Japanese side we'll see just the 18.1" BB affected--right? I've used Nagato and Mutsu several times and haven't had--to my knowledge--a reload issue there. Guess this gives me the excuse to send them in Harm's Way to check...

Which American BBs are impacted by this?

Side Question: Should this affect your Mods too? I've never had an issue in the 2x2 we have going and I've used the BBs A LOT in that one...


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(in reply to JuanG)
Post #: 425
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/6/2010 10:38:16 PM   
JuanG


Posts: 906
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline 		John,

It should not affect the other Japanese BBs since their guns are already grouped in 4's. It will however affect the Fast US BBs (Iowa, SD and NC classes). The older US BBs are probably safe. May also affect Nelson class. Ill run a series of tests to find out exactly what is affected and what isnt.

The reason this does not appear in the old WNT scenarios is that those did not include the recalculated ammo loads, which are only in Mk2 AltWNT and which I included in RA.

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Post #: 426
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/6/2010 10:42:20 PM   
darbycmcd

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 12/6/2005
Status: offline 		I was not so clear on the potential solution. Are you talking about a database change? I know that it is theoretically possible with ongoing games, do you think it will be ok?

(in reply to JuanG)
Post #: 427
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/7/2010 1:26:30 AM   
JuanG


Posts: 906
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline 		Basically, there are 2 solutions;

One that can be applied to ongoing games through DB update, but which does not address the root of the problem and will limit certain ships to only half their ammo or so.

And a second one that I would -not- suggest including as a DB update, because it involves notable changes to the shipclasses file, but which would however fix the problem near completely.

Ive run some tests, so far classes affected are Yamato, South Dakota, Iowa, North Carolina, Nelson and Richelieu. I've also found out that it does affect a few ships in the AltWNT Ultimate BB scenario, but no others.

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Post #: 428
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/7/2010 5:10:12 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I just did a reload of Nagato and Mutsu without issues so we know these are fine as Juan alluded to.

Once we have hashed out a solution I will email all the RA players in my Group List.

I'm thinking along two lines of thought:

1. On-Going Games--Database fix providing the MAX allowable for the affected BBs. Can this be done and everyone be able to click a hot link posted here for their 'patch?'

2. FIX the problem with a new update to the Mod that new players can load and run with. FatR posted the most recent changes regarding aircraft and few other issues. We could work off that Scenario Files, fix it, and Post as RA, Version 3. If we look at that I have some ship changes that need to be made to the Japanese OOB.

This is my proposal. Comment and Ideas?


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(in reply to JuanG)
Post #: 429
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/7/2010 10:26:58 AM   
JuanG


Posts: 906
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline 		Agreed, seems to be the cleanest solution short of convincing the devs to twiddle with the code. Just make clear the difference to people so they know which one to download.

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Post #: 430
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/7/2010 1:28:41 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		So Juan, this is only an issue for the re-calc re-load that you did, correct?  If the stock re-loads are used then this issue won't be seen?

(Asking to confirm as in one of my mods I am using stock and the other your re-calc.)

Thanks.

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(in reply to JuanG)
Post #: 431
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/7/2010 1:31:31 PM   
guctony


Posts: 669
Joined: 6/27/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I just did a reload of Nagato and Mutsu without issues so we know these are fine as Juan alluded to.

Once we have hashed out a solution I will email all the RA players in my Group List.

I'm thinking along two lines of thought:

1. On-Going Games--Database fix providing the MAX allowable for the affected BBs. Can this be done and everyone be able to click a hot link posted here for their 'patch?'

2. FIX the problem with a new update to the Mod that new players can load and run with. FatR posted the most recent changes regarding aircraft and few other issues. We could work off that Scenario Files, fix it, and Post as RA, Version 3. If we look at that I have some ship changes that need to be made to the Japanese OOB.

This is my proposal. Comment and Ideas?



I would love DB upgrade or else my Pbem will probably end. I need Yamato deeply. It is a deterent force when you enlarge your defence perimeter from Attu to pearl and to Suva. Probably I would suggest 2 2 2 front turret layout to maximize the loadout effect. But it wont be accepted for sure.

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(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 432
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/7/2010 2:15:48 PM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I just did a reload of Nagato and Mutsu without issues so we know these are fine as Juan alluded to.

Once we have hashed out a solution I will email all the RA players in my Group List.

I'm thinking along two lines of thought:

1. On-Going Games--Database fix providing the MAX allowable for the affected BBs. Can this be done and everyone be able to click a hot link posted here for their 'patch?'

2. FIX the problem with a new update to the Mod that new players can load and run with. FatR posted the most recent changes regarding aircraft and few other issues. We could work off that Scenario Files, fix it, and Post as RA, Version 3. If we look at that I have some ship changes that need to be made to the Japanese OOB.

This is my proposal. Comment and Ideas?


I propose to post the ship clases file (remind me, what file it is) with reduced ammo loadouts (to 12 per gun?) here, and then a true fix, as you said.

< Message edited by FatR -- 11/7/2010 2:16:29 PM >

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 433
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/7/2010 7:01:23 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I am not sure as to which file is the ships file. Juan?


Once found--Stanislav--just go ahead and fix it. Please send me ALL the updated files and I'll begin to work on the perminant solution as well as some OOB stuff.

The OOB changes will be discussed here when that work begins...


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 11/7/2010 7:44:36 PM >

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(in reply to FatR)
Post #: 434
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/8/2010 3:15:00 AM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		In case we're going to be making any changes to OOB - airgroups on building carriers, all of them, should be reequipped with early-war planes. Juan's mods actually got this right. Acceleration that allows carriers to arrive with planes that shouldn't be available yet is definitely possible at least for some of the ships, even with economics running on a tighter budget.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 435
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/8/2010 3:21:02 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Very good note Stanislav. I concur, however, lets hold off on this conversation until we've got things straightened out with our issue here.

Did you find the file for the immediate patch to work with on-going games?


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 11/8/2010 3:43:34 AM >

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(in reply to FatR)
Post #: 436
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/8/2010 3:14:25 PM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		To avoid wasting time, here's the link to the full scenario. The only change is reduction of forward turrets loadouts on problematic BB classed to 12.

http://www.box.net/shared/d2e40iyyyh

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 437
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/8/2010 8:13:29 PM   
darbycmcd

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 12/6/2005
Status: offline 		So to clarify, can we pop this in and update an ongoing game?  I never quite understood the db update process for ongoing games......

(in reply to FatR)
Post #: 438
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/8/2010 8:31:40 PM   
mariandavid

 

Posts: 297
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline 		Having problems with downloading the art files (I am sure at my end!). Will the failure to do this (eg no picture of the new Shokaku mod carriers) cause a crash when I eventually have a fight which involves them being visually attacked?

(in reply to darbycmcd)
Post #: 439
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/9/2010 2:10:47 AM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		Theoretically, any sorts of DB changes can be introduced into ongoing games through the button at the bottom of the "Preferences" screen (after copying modified files into the Scen folder). However, this might cause unpredictable bugs. As far as I understand, Juan says that introducing only a minor change, like the ammo loadout numbers can be used to avoid this. So if you have played the latest version of Scen 70, you can just copy the modified files I've just posted to the Scen folder and update the scenario. If you are playing some previous version, just use the AE Editor to modify scenario files by yourself, changing ammo loadouts of the forward batteries on battleship classes listed by Juan, and use the above-mentioned button to introduce them to the scenario.

Mariandavid, I don't know what might be causing problems with downloading art files. Their abscence should not cause a crash. You might also PM your email to John or me, so we can send the files directly to you.

< Message edited by FatR -- 11/9/2010 2:11:50 AM >

(in reply to mariandavid)
Post #: 440
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/9/2010 4:57:04 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Stanislav--I am a little confused on the last Posting. Did you make the changes down to 12 for the modern BBs or am I doing that?


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(in reply to FatR)
Post #: 441
RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem - 11/10/2010 12:03:57 AM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		I did the changes.

However, these were changes to the latest version of the mod, one that was posted on this thread directly before, I believe. Those who still use earlier versions in ongoing games (like myself) might want to update their files themselves, to avoid bugs, associated with major data changes.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 442
another serious problem - 11/11/2010 8:58:47 PM   
guctony


Posts: 669
Joined: 6/27/2009
Status: offline 		I have another problem somehow I have ghost planes in my Cvs whic are preventing my air groups from flying any mission. I am at the middle of enemy territory. any sugggestion




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Unless a nation's life faces peril, war is murder."
"Sovereignty is not given, it is taken."
"After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well."
Mustafa Kemal

(in reply to FatR)
Post #: 443
RE: another serious problem - 11/12/2010 2:22:07 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		You have 130 PLANES on the CV? They do appear to be phantoms. Did you re-size or mess with the air group in any way?


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Post #: 444
RE: another serious problem - 11/12/2010 8:04:57 AM   
guctony


Posts: 669
Joined: 6/27/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

You have 130 PLANES on the CV? They do appear to be phantoms. Did you re-size or mess with the air group in any way?



Nope it started suddenly and now it is all over my CV task force 4 Cv is effected by it.

they are phantoms


_____________________________

"Unless a nation's life faces peril, war is murder."
"Sovereignty is not given, it is taken."
"After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well."
Mustafa Kemal

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 445
RE: another serious problem - 11/13/2010 11:26:56 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I have no idea what this could be. Makes no sense for the game to do that. The fact it is on four CVs is quite concerning. My thoughts are to Post it over on the Tech Support area and see if one of the Mods can take a look and make a suggestion.

Please let us know what happens...

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Post #: 446
RE: another serious problem - 11/13/2010 11:29:22 AM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		I certainly haven't seen anything like that. That's probably Tech Support matter.

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Post #: 447
RE: another serious problem - 11/13/2010 12:28:46 PM   
yubari

 

Posts: 365
Joined: 3/24/2006
Status: offline 		The A6M3b, shown on the Kaga is not carrier capable, could that be the cause?

(in reply to FatR)
Post #: 448
RE: another serious problem - 11/13/2010 12:37:51 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		That is a good thought. I only think wouldn't fly, however, there might be something to the idea.


NEW TOPIC: I spent a couple of hours last night and Thursday drawing up a set ideas/proposals for RA, Mk 3. Some are fairly big but most is simply housekeeping and fixing issues we already know about. If I get time later today I will Post the list and start the commentary phase of this.



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Post #: 449
RE: another serious problem - 11/14/2010 12:12:22 PM   
Local Yokel


Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yubari

The A6M3b, shown on the Kaga is not carrier capable, could that be the cause?


I wondered whether this might be relevant, too. If all Guctony's CV's are affected by this, it would be interesting to know whether they all have this version of the Zero embarked. If any carriers equipped with, say, the A6M2 are not affected by phantom aircraft, this would add to suspicion that this may be part of the explanation.

I assume that the A6M3b designation is intended to represent the Model 32 Zero which preceded the Model 22, aka A6M3a. I've never understood why the Model 32 is not treated as 'carrier capable'. Show me evidence that Model 32's were built without arrester gear and/or lacked the requisite structural strength to absorb arresting wire forces acting on the tailhook and I might be convinced otherwise. I know there's controversy as to whether Model 32's were ever on the operational strength of any Japanese carrier whilst at sea, but whether they were capable of being so used and whether they actually did so are entirely distinct questions.

Sorry. Longstanding bugbear of mine.

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Post #: 450
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