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ship maitanance costs question - 11/14/2010 5:10:00 AM   
slicem

 

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In certain moment i built too many ships, so income decreases to negative.
When i scraped some of the ships, i found that maintanace costs doesn`t decreases.

What i doing wrong?

< Message edited by slicem -- 11/14/2010 5:11:10 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/14/2010 10:52:15 PM   
ehsumrell1


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Joined: 8/17/2010
From: The Briar Patch Nebula
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Slicem;

Welcome to the forum!

Check your spaceports! Scrapping ships already built should reduce your
maintenance costs. But also check how many ships are "queued" at your
construction yards. They might be full of ships being constructed which
count also.

_____________________________

Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...

(in reply to slicem)
Post #: 2
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/15/2010 3:20:58 AM   
slicem

 

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I found it - it`s starbases(as i understand - gasmines are included).

Damn. I`m in war now, but economy of mine is suffocating.
I have about 6 or 7 planets, but the only income is from my homeworld.

Don`t know what to do. Or to be exact - "How does economy works".
Can somebody give me a light brief or link to such? :)

(in reply to ehsumrell1)
Post #: 3
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/15/2010 3:49:37 AM   
Jeeves


Posts: 940
Joined: 9/28/2010
From: Arlington TN U.S.A
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How about a teaser from my upcoming strategy guide? I have not yet edited this portion for clarity, so readers beware...
**** EDIT **** replaced all of the text with the latest revision, some sentence changes, same information


Colony characteristics / rating worlds
Colony population begins with your colonizer population plus any independent colony population at the world. The population growth rate depends upon the race basic reproduction rate, the number of luxuries available at the colony (which increase cultural development level), and the happiness of the population. You can improve the happiness by :

1) Cut taxes down to 0% if your empire balance sheet is in good shape. Based upon my experience, it takes 8-12 years for a small independent population colony to reach 20k revenue. There is not much point to raising taxes above 0% on such colonies. I have never played a game where the colonies which I planted on raw worlds (with no independent population) ever justified taxes above 0%.

2) Build a spaceport with medical and recreation centers. If your colony is too small to build anything useful (in a reasonable amount of time) when its first spaceport completes, then build a resort base (with just one passenger compartment) with extractors to mine that colony's resources. After that you will want an upgraded spaceport using your latest designs. I have not yet played a game where any world besides the home world did a second spaceport upgrade.

3) Improve your empire's reputation by destroying pirate ships and bases. For your typical race (humans), this contributes up to 9 points of happiness to your total, plus an additional point of bonus from the Garden of Arcadia if you have colonized it.

===== ==== ==== ==== ==== ====
4) Improve the supply of luxuries available at your colonies by colonizing worlds to provide a VARIETY (*NOTE 1*) of luxuries, rather than just focusing upon those luxuries with high prices. Whenever possible (in the late game) colonize ALL (*NOTE 2*) habitable worlds in each of your systems, giving priority to those systems which already have an active spaceport. By the late game you should have colonized just about every desirable system with at least one colony. Leave the crumbs for the 19 AI empires to colonize. Furthermore the AI empires get really disturbed if you colonize much more than 100 of the 1400 systems…

(*NOTE 1* A colony provided with a sufficient VARIETY of luxuries progresses at a maximum rate of 18 cultural development points of increase per year once luxuries are provided. The maximum contribution to development level for normal luxuries is 50 points. If any of the three super luxuries Loros Fruit, Korobbian Spice, or Zentabia fluid is in the cargo bay of the colony, then an immediate bonus of 30 points of development level is added.)

(*NOTE 2* By colonizing EVERY habitable planet regardless of quality level, you prevent any AI empire from trying to colonize in your system. Colonies planted on raw worlds in the end game will never have much revenue one way or the other when compared to older well established ones. In a particular system, you will probably prefer to colonize first where there is no mine built by your civilians, deferring those till later.)

===== ==== ==== ==== ==== ====
5) By cutting taxes you also increase the cash-flow of the civilians, allowing them to finance the purchase and maintenance of more freighters, mining ships, and passenger ships. The lost tax revenue comes back to your empire coffers as spaceport income, both for civilian ship construction (*NOTE 1*) and transaction fees (*NOTE 2*) on the movement of resources. With more freighters able to move goods, each of your colonies will be ABLE to increase its cultural development level due to an influx of luxuries. (* NOTE 3*) An increased development level results in higher empire revenue, and so the economy spirals upward at an astounding rate. I have experienced 29% per year empire revenue increases from population growth on medium reproduction rate empires, not including jumps of about 30% in revenue at every colony which acquires one of the super luxuries. For large independent colonies of fast breeding races with no taxes collected, the strategic value / revenue of a colony can increase by 75% per year until the maximum development level is reached, at which point the increase drops to "only" about 45% per year. The civilian cash box fills to overflowing as money pours in faster than ship yards can build ships. Once the civilians have acquired a year or two worth of cash cushion, I often smash the economy down (by raising taxes to a level which makes the civilians only happy +20 or so on my top ten revenue colonies) for a year or so to get the ships in queue built. When I find it necessary to build an empire managed ship at a spaceport, then I use the "move up" button to put it at the head of the build queue, jumping my priority ahead of those civilian ships.

(NOTE 1- If you stop building things at your colonies, then the civilians will slow (and eventually nearly stop) their purchasing of ships. Your CONSUMPTION of resources is the driving force behind the civilian shipbuilding economy, CAUSING the freighters to move resources between mines and colonies (not forgetting foreign trade). By doing useful projects at your colonies, you can encourage the civilians to buy new ships. HOWEVER that might become a problem due to strategic resource consumption which exceeds both your own supply and the excess readily available from foreign trade. You might see that happen when examining the expansion planner list of strategic resources, with galactic shortages causing the price of a resource to spiral upwards. Most commonly there will from time to time be shortages of fuel in particular.
Before a galactic shortage becomes critical, you must throttle back on your new empire projects so that the civilians will (PLEASE) stop BUYING ships! (An unpleasant consequence of poor management is when the civilians' own shipbuilding causes a shortage, which the civilians attempt to remedy by the purchase of still MORE ships, especially mining ships.) If you followed my advice above regarding very low tax rates, then you can also discourage ship purchases by grinding the civilian balance sheet down with very HIGH taxes. As you gain experience with managing the economy, you will find that you have learned the warning signs, and will not need to resort to THAT.

For raw colonies I always buy a spaceport as a first project. For large independent colonies, I usually buy two colony ships, then a spaceport when those are built. Since I build a spaceport at every colony eventually, the civilians have a CHOICE of where to buy their ships. This diminishes (but does not necessarily prevent) the problem of local resource shortages caused by the civilians queueing up too many ships at the same spaceport. Given a CHOICE, I have found that the civilians will usually buy ships where there are already sufficient resources to build them. The only exception to that observation is the initial purchase of ships at a spaceport when its yard components are added. In that case the civilians can be excused, because until SOME project is ordered which requires the six resources not provided at colony planting, no order is placed to request them.)

(NOTE 2- The technological level of the commerce center component will improve as the game progresses, providing more profit on the movement of resources. Unless you upgrade the really old spaceports, you will lose an enormous potential income (from higher bonus transaction fees) due to obsolete commerce centers at those spaceports.)

(NOTE 3 - The development level of a new colony is its population in millions divided by ten, up to a maximum of 50. This discussion assumes a colony with no independent population. The colony population begins with orders for luxuries which will get it 25 cultural development points - five different luxuries. Until the colony grows to respectable population levels, the people there will be content with just five different luxuries, stalling cultural development for a while. Be patient - eventually they will order an increased variety of luxuries. I suspect that this is done so that new colonies do not divert luxuries away from large population colonies, where those luxuries can be consumed to keep the development level high with far greater potential revenue profit.)

===== ==== ==== ==== ==== ====
6) Assigning world scores
World quality determines how much you will be able to earn from a colony in revenue. Your colony revenue is determined by :
Revenue = colony population * cultural development level * (1- fractional corruption percentage) * (world quality - 50) / scaling factor



< Message edited by Jeeves -- 11/16/2010 2:21:06 AM >

(in reply to slicem)
Post #: 4
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/15/2010 4:04:30 AM   
Jeeves


Posts: 940
Joined: 9/28/2010
From: Arlington TN U.S.A
Status: offline
quote:

Can somebody give me a light brief or link to such? :)


LOL, was that light, or did I sound like a fed chairman to you?


< Message edited by Jeeves -- 11/15/2010 7:13:50 AM >

(in reply to slicem)
Post #: 5
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/15/2010 5:09:35 AM   
slicem

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 11/14/2010
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Thanks.
So economy model looks pretty real and gaddam difficult to controll.
Just taxes & services, not any "resource to money".

I`m in troooouuuuuble :).
Looks my homeworld going to have 20% taxes :).

(in reply to Jeeves)
Post #: 6
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/15/2010 5:44:00 AM   
Aures

 

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Joined: 9/13/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeeves
LOL, was that light, or did I sound like Alan Greenspan to you?


No, your style is far removed from FedSpeak. Also, I didn't see you advising people with mortages to take variable rate loans over fixed rate to save money in complete defiance of efficient market theory (something the silly sod claims to believe in despite its absurdity). Cognitive dissonance anyone?


_____________________________

Most of my Empires are too big


(in reply to Jeeves)
Post #: 7
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/15/2010 6:17:52 AM   
Jeeves


Posts: 940
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From: Arlington TN U.S.A
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quote:

I didn't see you advising people with mortages


WOW - I just realized - many of the games which I have played permit you to borrow money, or alternatively , to put money into a bank where it earns interest. What if that was added to the game, with an interstellar cartel, presumably the one which handles pirate affairs, acting as go-between. LOL Juntavas anyone ? Sharon Lee and Steve Miller, "Agent of Change" Liadan novels.

EDIT -
If you fail to pay interest on time, the cartel finances a "collection" party which is managed by the nearest pirate gang. The cruisers and capital ships raid your territory until you pay your "protection" money to that gang, which is the normal fee, PLUS interest due, PLUS a penalty fee for the extra costs incurred by the raiders.

Extra costs include fuel, ship maintenance, repair fees, fees for destroyed pirate ships...

You deposit money by calling up the pirate gang as usual, but with a box to enter the amount of money which you want to deposit. You withdraw money by entering a negative number into the box, either diminishing your balance, or borrowing money at the current interest rate.

In either case, since you are dealing with the cartel, you must pay protection money to the gang arranging the transaction.

The amount of interest which you earn is the current value of money on the interstellar market, determined by how much supply/demand there might be, same as with physical resources. The floor value of money is 0.95 per 1.00 $, the 5% being the pirate's cut. Until some empire tries to borrow money, you would LOSE to the bank. The ceiling value would be very high - say 10.00, which would make the pirate's cut 50% interest on the principle per annum. Realistically, some empire would put money into the bank, increasing the supply long before the rate soared that high. There would be no guarantee of a profit, except for the pirate's cut. They would collect a carry charge on each transaction, flat rate rather than percentage, to encourage bulk deals. They get 5% of all money in the banking system per annum, withdrawn daily and distributed to the most needy pirate gangs to finance ship and base purchases...


< Message edited by Jeeves -- 11/15/2010 6:54:45 AM >

(in reply to Aures)
Post #: 8
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/15/2010 12:44:21 PM   
the1sean


Posts: 854
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From: Texas, USA
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LOL, compound interest for the win!

(in reply to Jeeves)
Post #: 9
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/16/2010 6:10:09 AM   
lancer

 

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G'day,

This is very good information Jeeves.

Where did it come from?

Cheers,
Lancer

(in reply to the1sean)
Post #: 10
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/16/2010 6:55:21 AM   
Jeeves


Posts: 940
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From: Arlington TN U.S.A
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quote:

Where did it come from?


LOL 2000 hours of game play with hundreds of pages of data taken as the games progressed. I did not reverse engineer anything, just played 6 games, observing EVERYTHING. Ten minutes or so of developer work could invalidate portions of my advice...

In the original release, world quality was always 100%. Then the quality factor was implemented. I needed a few days worth of data to determine that the 50% value WAS precisely 50%, to give just one example...

(in reply to lancer)
Post #: 11
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/16/2010 6:59:16 AM   
J HG T


Posts: 1093
Joined: 5/14/2010
From: Kiadia Prime
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lancer

G'day,

This is very good information Jeeves.

Where did it come from?

Cheers,
Lancer


Jeeves knows. He's the current guru of Distant Worlds.


_____________________________

Nothing is impossible, not if you can imagine it!
"And they hurled themselves into the void of space with no fear."

(in reply to lancer)
Post #: 12
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/16/2010 7:18:10 AM   
Jeeves


Posts: 940
Joined: 9/28/2010
From: Arlington TN U.S.A
Status: offline
quote:

Jeeves knows. He's the current guru of Distant Worlds.


ARRGGGHH, now I will be expected to answer requests for information piecemeal, when I could be typing up a concise summary to give "ALL MY GOLD AND KNOWLEDGE if you will only let me live in peace"..... LOL - "Civilization" game in quotes.

Seriously, I am making progress in revising existing text, now at page 11 of 35. I need to add about 20-30 more pages of new information, then pass my best effort over to Matrix Games staff so that they can produce a document, either for bundling with the game or posting on the forum.

So if I take several hours to respond, the explanation is simple - hard at work, or sleeping.

(in reply to J HG T)
Post #: 13
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/16/2010 8:04:34 AM   
lancer

 

Posts: 2963
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline
G'day

quote:


Seriously, I am making progress in revising existing text, now at page 11 of 35. I need to add about 20-30 more pages of new information, then pass my best effort over to Matrix Games staff so that they can produce a document, either for bundling with the game or posting on the forum.


Much appreciated. Looking forward to it.

Cheers,
Lancer

(in reply to Jeeves)
Post #: 14
RE: ship maitanance costs question - 11/18/2010 4:28:37 PM   
jimhsu

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 11/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeeves

quote:

I didn't see you advising people with mortages


WOW - I just realized - many of the games which I have played permit you to borrow money, or alternatively , to put money into a bank where it earns interest. What if that was added to the game, with an interstellar cartel, presumably the one which handles pirate affairs, acting as go-between. LOL Juntavas anyone ? Sharon Lee and Steve Miller, "Agent of Change" Liadan novels.

EDIT -
If you fail to pay interest on time, the cartel finances a "collection" party which is managed by the nearest pirate gang. The cruisers and capital ships raid your territory until you pay your "protection" money to that gang, which is the normal fee, PLUS interest due, PLUS a penalty fee for the extra costs incurred by the raiders.

Extra costs include fuel, ship maintenance, repair fees, fees for destroyed pirate ships...

You deposit money by calling up the pirate gang as usual, but with a box to enter the amount of money which you want to deposit. You withdraw money by entering a negative number into the box, either diminishing your balance, or borrowing money at the current interest rate.

In either case, since you are dealing with the cartel, you must pay protection money to the gang arranging the transaction.

The amount of interest which you earn is the current value of money on the interstellar market, determined by how much supply/demand there might be, same as with physical resources. The floor value of money is 0.95 per 1.00 $, the 5% being the pirate's cut. Until some empire tries to borrow money, you would LOSE to the bank. The ceiling value would be very high - say 10.00, which would make the pirate's cut 50% interest on the principle per annum. Realistically, some empire would put money into the bank, increasing the supply long before the rate soared that high. There would be no guarantee of a profit, except for the pirate's cut. They would collect a carry charge on each transaction, flat rate rather than percentage, to encourage bulk deals. They get 5% of all money in the banking system per annum, withdrawn daily and distributed to the most needy pirate gangs to finance ship and base purchases...




Have to say that this idea is brilliant. To extend it even, make the AI rational - they'd want to lend to small, fledgling empires (that they can bully later), but are more cautious when dealing with large empires. For huge, gigantic empires, they'd probably not even attempt collection (because they would be wiped out), but rather would offer to make a deal like "We'll call off the loans if you agree to invest 100000 with us." Of course by that time the player would be swimming in millions, so that's not that bad of an investment after all. And all the small, fledgling empires around you want to borrow money too, so you in effect have the ability to corner the money supply at will. The possibilities are endless ... exciting.

< Message edited by jimhsu -- 11/18/2010 4:31:44 PM >

(in reply to Jeeves)
Post #: 15
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