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Games with good/best AI? - 11/16/2010 11:17:45 PM   
rowech

 

Posts: 215
Joined: 6/9/2005
Status: offline 		I'm wondering which games have good AI as that's the way I tend to play most games. I know it's a pretty broad question.

Somewhat of a follow up of that question, which games are the quickest in making the AI moves? Ideally, I don't want a game that takes 10 minutes to have the computer make its moves.
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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/16/2010 11:31:42 PM   
06 Maestro


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Status: offline 		Conquest of the Aegean has the best ai I have encountered. I assume BftB is at the same level or better. Also, with that system, you don't have to wait for the ai to finish-you keep plugging away at it as the ai continues its operations.

I have encountered other ai's that were not too bad, but none as good as CotA.

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/17/2010 12:30:37 AM   
jomni


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Status: offline 		Agree. The Panther Games titles here in Matrix have good AI.
The fact that you can leave your troops alone to perform your macro orders without babysitting is proof.
If it works on your side, it also works one enemy AI side.  They do a good job probing for weak spots and attacking.
But some people don't think of it as a game since all they do is watch.


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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/17/2010 12:41:52 AM   
diablo1

 

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Status: offline 		War of the Lance and the ai only takes a few seconds per turn and will beat you easily on normal difficulty until you get great at the game.

Centurion Defender of Rome and once again the ai only takes a few seconds per turn and will easily beat you on normal diffiuclty until you get excellent at the game.

Spartan played on hard, hardest or impossible will easily beat you until you get beyond great and excellent.

Norbsofts Gettysburg it's real time but not fast real time and the ai is excellent at flanking and sneaking up on you from the woods.

Conquest:Medieval a chesslike game of map conquest by Slitherine and a very good game and ai and once again the ai only takes a few seconds to complete its turn.

Panzer Command:Kharkov (soon to be Osfront). A decent ai and quick to play simular to Combat Mission but the ai is much better.

X-Com Defender and Terror (excellent strategic/tactical sci-fi game) ai plays quickly and the entire game is near perfect in every respect for challenge and fun.

SACRIFICE: Excellent real time strategy tactical game of conquest. Linear somewhat and the end is quite challenging. No micromanagement just soul gathering during battles.

HOPLITE: Free ancient card playing game very quick play very challenging ai. You take one of 40 famous leaders of ancient past and see how long you can last with him playing against the others. Spartacus is quite fun to play as.

That should be enough for awhile to keep you busy and losing.




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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/17/2010 7:47:25 AM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni
Agree. The Panther Games titles here in Matrix have good AI.
The fact that you can leave your troops alone to perform your macro orders without babysitting is proof.
If it works on your side, it also works one enemy AI side.  They do a good job probing for weak spots and attacking.


+1 - absolutely the best AI in town - a good second in my eyes are the SSG produced games - Across the Dnepr etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni
But some people don't think of it as a game since all they do is watch.


What's stopping those people to micromanage to their heart's desire ?

I'm more like Hannibal of the A-Team - I love it when a good plan comes together. In the Command Ops engine you evaluate a situation and then set a plan into motion and watch it unfold, but then something happens - usually something unexpected or bad and you have to adjust your plan or radically change it or just take the risk that the original plan is good enough - nailbiting stuff

There's a demo for Battles from the Bulge, so give it a try.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/17/2010 7:50:51 AM   
JudgeDredd


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From: Scotland
Status: offline 		+1 for Panther Games. I've never played a game with a more intuitive and effective AI.

And I also agree that some people find it a bit too "watchy" rather than play - which is why I do what Eddy says - I do a little bit of micro management...not too much and that's the other beauty of the game - you can completely scale the micromanagement to your requirements in game. Also, being pausible/continuous play can make it difficult - thank god they also thought about giving orders whilst pausing.

geez - I almost talked myseld into buying BftB.

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/17/2010 8:21:24 AM   
CatLord


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Status: offline 		I agree with people here, the Panther Games' AI is very good.

I also think the AI from AGE engine is not doing too bad a job, but then I am certainly biaised.

Cat

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/17/2010 7:22:37 PM   
comte


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatLord

I agree with people here, the Panther Games' AI is very good.

I also think the AI from AGE engine is not doing too bad a job, but then I am certainly biaised.

Cat


The AGE AI is very good in most respects except for Winter attrition. The AI will let its armies waste away in the winter months so I usually set it to no attrition for the AI while I play with historic attrition.

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/17/2010 8:04:04 PM   
Matto


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Status: offline 		Guns of August ... very good and chalenging AI !!!

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/18/2010 2:27:47 AM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aces8

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatLord

I agree with people here, the Panther Games' AI is very good.

I also think the AI from AGE engine is not doing too bad a job, but then I am certainly biaised.

Cat


The AGE AI is very good in most respects except for Winter attrition ...


I thought they fixed that in BoA, I assume it's also OK in WiA.

In any event, the Athena AI is impressive.

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/18/2010 4:18:32 AM   
KG Erwin


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Status: offline 		Yes, AGEOD's AI is impressive. I'm still trying to beat it in BOA2:Wars of America. That's my current favorite wargame.

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/18/2010 9:53:40 AM   
moose1999

 

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Status: offline 		I'm quite a fan of the AI in Western Civilization Software's games, i.e. Crown of Glory: Emperors Edition (napoleonic) and Forge of Freedom (ACW).
These games both have a strategic level game and a tactical level for detailed battles, both levels are turnbased.
They are both deep and entertaining games and the AI on both the strategic and tactical level is among the best I have encountered.


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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/18/2010 10:33:51 AM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: briny_norman
I'm quite a fan of the AI in Western Civilization Software's games, i.e. Crown of Glory: Emperors Edition (napoleonic) and Forge of Freedom (ACW).
These games both have a strategic level game and a tactical level for detailed battles, both levels are turnbased.
They are both deep and entertaining games and the AI on both the strategic and tactical level is among the best I have encountered.


I'll readily agree that the AI from WCS and AGEod is a cut above the norm as well, so this answers the "good AI" portion of the original question, but as to the "best AI" there's just one King of the Hill and that's the Command Ops engine from Panther Games as mentioned above.

Don't take my word for it, just download the demo and be amazed

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/18/2010 2:09:07 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		You may also want to try Hannibal: Rome and Carthage which was designed as a single player game with a strong AI. Just updated too!

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/18/2010 11:20:54 PM   
NefariousKoel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

You may also want to try Hannibal: Rome and Carthage which was designed as a single player game with a strong AI. Just updated too!

Regards,

- Erik



Hannibal gets my vote. It's a tough one.

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/19/2010 12:45:52 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel
Hannibal gets my vote. It's a tough one.


Here's my take on Hannibal. It's a single-player-only game so the game mechanics and the AI are tailor-made to be challenging. I'm not saying AI is not capable. But I think it's easier to create a good AI in a game like Hannibal.
PBEM and other two-player wargames tend to make the scnearios balanced but the AI can't cope. So kudos to those two-player games with good AI (mentioned above).

< Message edited by jomni -- 11/19/2010 12:46:29 AM >

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/19/2010 4:18:56 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

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Status: offline 		Would recommend the AGEODs and Hannibal as well.

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/20/2010 8:41:00 AM   
NefariousKoel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel
Hannibal gets my vote. It's a tough one.


Here's my take on Hannibal. It's a single-player-only game so the game mechanics and the AI are tailor-made to be challenging. I'm not saying AI is not capable. But I think it's easier to create a good AI in a game like Hannibal.
PBEM and other two-player wargames tend to make the scnearios balanced but the AI can't cope. So kudos to those two-player games with good AI (mentioned above).


Sooo... what? Are you saying it's disqualified? I was of the understanding that he was looking for a challenging game with a good AI and therefore concentrating on the single-player.

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/21/2010 5:40:37 AM   
NavalNewZ


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Status: offline 		Diablo seems to know what he's talking about With regard to Matrix titles, I've found that the SSG series AI is decent at maximising tactical odds (its like playing a chess computer at times). This requires long term strategic planning to overcome, which makes the games challenging, and enjoyable. I've found the AGEOD ACW and BoAII AIs to be a decent opposition too - they don't play silly, or generic(predictable) moves. Not easy to find this kind of challenge at the strategic level. Finally, I would mention The John Tiller Campaign Series. If you don't know the system, it will beat you mercilessly. Experience will enable you to overcome it, but it makes you learn the intricacies of the system. Some games don't have the best AI, but you will need to hunt around the forums to check on this.


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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/21/2010 9:11:34 AM   
Nebogipfel


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Status: offline 		If you want a challenging game, you need to check games designed for single-player.

Although SSG´s WW2 AI is a better one, it´s not really a challenge to beat the AI. Once you´re "in", you will win every battle, mostly with 1xxx points ahaed. Their games are designed for H2H.

Didn´t play the latest panther games, but with RDOA it was almost the same.

Most newer games don´t offer a big challenge to single player, because of this H2H dilemma.

I dig out older games, which are designed for single player, if I want a challenge.

If you want to get your ass kicked, try for example older SSG´s like original Battlefront or Reach for the Stars, which are offering a real

challenge.


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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/21/2010 9:37:58 AM   
IronWarrior


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Status: offline 		Depends what you mean by "good AI".

HistWar Les Grognards has a really good AI. The "regimental AI" uses historical tactics, deciding when to change formation in different situations or throw out skirmishers for example. Cavalry will force squares and call up horse artillery etc etc.

H2H is still the best way to play the game (IMO), but SP can still offer a good challenge (especially so when compared with other games in this specific category). But the "AI" is pretty impressive in what it does.

EDIT: not sure if we were including non-Matrix titles... sorry if that was OT.

< Message edited by IronWarrior -- 11/21/2010 9:38:23 AM >

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/21/2010 2:13:56 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		Regarding SSG's AI, I think it's always been one of the better ones and with the recent Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets and Across the Dnepr Second Edition, I find it much harder to beat than in the older titles.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/21/2010 6:34:19 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

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Status: offline 		A couple I will vote for are Guns of August and Gary Grigsby's WBTS. I think one thing that helps GOA in particular is the simpler, chesslike quality of the board and system. It is a really classic game. WBTS has some of those same qualities though it is more complex. I think if you give the AI a less complex situation, you can develop a better AI and fewer ways to "game" the AI. In both games mentioned you have to learn to maximize your leadership and take advantage of everything the system offers you to win. In the Panther system I've only played HTTR and understand how good that system is but just could not completely get into it. And some of the others I have not played, so I'm not making a complete comparison.

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/21/2010 7:58:25 PM   
Anthropoid


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Status: offline 		Seems like the AI in Battle of Britain was pretty good. That is granted a combination of a strategic and a tactical air game, but it was pretty challenging.

I finally bought Birth of America, and have to agree, the AI there seems pretty good. Don't have WiA yet.

The Commander: World at War AI (Slitherine) is pretty good.

At the strategic level, the AI in Crown of Glory Emperor's Edition seems pretty good, but the tactical is pretty predictable. I'd say the same thing for Forge of Freedom.

ADDIT: the AI in the old Civil War Generals II game was also pretty good.

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 11/21/2010 8:00:03 PM >

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/21/2010 8:17:34 PM   
rowech

 

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Status: offline 		Little disappointing as none of the games I've been looking at being mentioned really.  I've seen other posts about HPS games here so I don't think I'm breaking too much protocal but if I am, I apologize...are the HPS games AI any good?

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/22/2010 4:14:22 AM   
IronWarrior


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rowech

Little disappointing as none of the games I've been looking at being mentioned really.  I've seen other posts about HPS games here so I don't think I'm breaking too much protocal but if I am, I apologize...are the HPS games AI any good?


Horrible... but to be fair the HPS games are targeted for MP gamers (like me ). I just can't get into them any more after playing Histwar.



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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/22/2010 5:13:28 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nebogipfel

If you want a challenging game, you need to check games designed for single-player.

Although SSG´s WW2 AI is a better one, it´s not really a challenge to beat the AI. Once you´re "in", you will win every battle, mostly with 1xxx points ahaed. Their games are designed for H2H.

Didn´t play the latest panther games, but with RDOA it was almost the same.

Most newer games don´t offer a big challenge to single player, because of this H2H dilemma.

I dig out older games, which are designed for single player, if I want a challenge.

If you want to get your ass kicked, try for example older SSG´s like original Battlefront or Reach for the Stars, which are offering a real

challenge.




@Nefarious. That's the point that I was driving at... The more focus on multiplayer and balance, the less focus on AI development. The more game mechanics and concepts that games try to simulate, the more an AI cannot cope. Hannibal developers chose it to be single-player-only and it also has no Roman Campaign. The end result is a great and challenging game againt the AI as Carthage. Sadly there are some people are not happy and still clamor for a Roman campaign and multiplayer.

Regarding HPS... I mostly play HPS Squad Battles in PBEM. Playing vs. the AI can be challenging and fun but that depends on the scenario design and the scenarios that you pic. The AI can still beat you.

< Message edited by jomni -- 11/22/2010 5:23:40 AM >

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/22/2010 10:54:41 AM   
diablo1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rowech

Little disappointing as none of the games I've been looking at being mentioned really.  I've seen other posts about HPS games here so I don't think I'm breaking too much protocal but if I am, I apologize...are the HPS games AI any good?


No not all HPS ai's are horrible only the older titles and even they if you play the smaller scenarios can give a beginner a challenge. The newer titles though like Renassiance, Greek Wars, Gallic Wars, Punic Wars, Second front do have much improved ai's. Personally I still find Eagle Strike and Pacific War squad battle games fun and challenging as well. If you're going to get HPS games though I would suggest going to NWSonline.com as they will save you about $20 and that way you can try 1 or 2 out and basically get 2 games for the price of 1.

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/22/2010 3:40:12 PM   
ilovestrategy


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Status: offline 		You guys remind me of Ascendancy. Next to Civ II, it's my favorite strategy game of all time but the AI was non existent. 

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RE: Games with good/best AI? - 11/22/2010 6:40:23 PM   
Sheytan


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Status: offline 		I agree on Xcom, Terror from the Deep, the AI in that game would kick my ass.

quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

War of the Lance and the ai only takes a few seconds per turn and will beat you easily on normal difficulty until you get great at the game.

Centurion Defender of Rome and once again the ai only takes a few seconds per turn and will easily beat you on normal diffiuclty until you get excellent at the game.

Spartan played on hard, hardest or impossible will easily beat you until you get beyond great and excellent.

Norbsofts Gettysburg it's real time but not fast real time and the ai is excellent at flanking and sneaking up on you from the woods.

Conquest:Medieval a chesslike game of map conquest by Slitherine and a very good game and ai and once again the ai only takes a few seconds to complete its turn.

Panzer Command:Kharkov (soon to be Osfront). A decent ai and quick to play simular to Combat Mission but the ai is much better.

X-Com Defender and Terror (excellent strategic/tactical sci-fi game) ai plays quickly and the entire game is near perfect in every respect for challenge and fun.

SACRIFICE: Excellent real time strategy tactical game of conquest. Linear somewhat and the end is quite challenging. No micromanagement just soul gathering during battles.

HOPLITE: Free ancient card playing game very quick play very challenging ai. You take one of 40 famous leaders of ancient past and see how long you can last with him playing against the others. Spartacus is quite fun to play as.

That should be enough for awhile to keep you busy and losing.







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