RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/14/2010 9:57:03 AM

FatR

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

This battle was a great example of exploiting the initial success. Overall, the Line Islands campaign is major disaster for Allies. They will recover soon enough, of course (in terms of capital ships this only offsets earlier Japanese misfortunes), but you will have at least 3-4 relatively quiet months to improve and consolidate your defences.

(in reply to krupp_88mm)

Post #: 1621

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/14/2010 10:35:55 AM

janh

Posts: 1216
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline

Congrats, this is really a great victory. Two things I believe to have learned from you tactics:
1. Have a carpet of subs on your own retreat and, if enough available, also on the enemy retreat path when you anticipate major naval battles
2. Prepare large forward supply bases like Christmas island, which allow you such back-hand strikes...

Can you give us a the loss lists for the past days, I kind of am swamped by all the successes and unlucky feats. So you basically only lost 1 CL, 1 CA (Maya), and 1 CV (Kaga), plus some DD, SS, and AO and a few damaged? Well, control of the seas will be yours for another 6 months now. I wonder whether it still would be worth the risk to send a small (1-3) CV div east of Pearl and hope that Andy shuttled Big back to CONUSA once the dust has settled?

(in reply to krupp_88mm)

Post #: 1622

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/14/2010 3:40:52 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Thank you! It was indeed a good victory but also remember that it was fought in very favorable terms;
- The KB and LBA outnumbered the enemy by more than 2-1 in ac
- We achieved surprise attack

Still we had to struggle really hard to finish off 3 carriers and 2 battleships; incredible durable ships.

Indeed, a major forward supply base is worth a lot Jahn. Christmas Island still holds 150k supplies and 52k fuel.
Using the Line Islands as our forward sub hub also allows us to concentrate a sub presence here and as soon as a battle begins subs on patrol can quickly mass into the area.

Johnston Island; the last part of the battle.

We sank 3 PT boats, a sub chaser and a Destroyer Minelayer.
3 ships in port were also hit while 16 ac were destroyed on the ground - no further air activities were observed from Johnston Island this day so mission was accomplished.

Our 3rd consecutive attack in Kalemyo was not a success; had hoped that the fatigued and disrupted defenders would suffer more than the troops attacking. Not quite so, enemy AV
was adjusted from 650 to 2500, quite outrageous really

Think you listed our losses quite accurately Jahn;
The carrier Kaga, the heavy cruiser Maya, a light cruiser, 2 destroyers, a fleet oiler as well as ca 5? sunk subs.
In addition the Junyo and 2 CAs were damaged by subs.

A somewhat more comprehensive task is to put together a complete list of Allied ship losses:
2 US and 1 UK carrier, 2 US modern battleships, 4? heavy cruisers, 2? CLAAs, 6? destroyers and a multitude of PT boats, SCs, subs etc.

Also have to look into air losses; my first impression is that KB has lost 35% of its ac complement and 20% of its pilots.
Should be doable to replace all these losses quite soon. We have a reserve of old Vals and Kates until new Judys and Jills comes online.

Yes FatR, we have confirmed our sea supremacy until the end of 43.
Andy will receive a growing number of CVEs and add his suriving carriers to them until enough Essex class ships and CVLs can slowly rebuild his fleet carrier strength.
Base on how well the Junyo took 2 torpedoes and the fact that the Kaga didn't sink until the 8th torpedo hit her I will assume that the Lexington surived being hit by 3 torpedoes.
Saratoga should be back in service by mid 43 while Lexington should be back late in the year.

Assuming that Andy will find another British carrier he will then have the Enterprise, a UK carrier (maybe 2 or even 3 depending on deployment Indian Ocean vs Pacific), Sara and Lex as well as 3 Essex carriers, 6-7 CVLs and ca20 CVEs within the end of the year?
This means 7 CVs (plus 2 UK potentially), 7 CVLs, 20 CVEs fielding 840 ac + 600 ac in the escort carriers.

By the end of the year we should have the Akagi, Shokaku, Zuikaku, Hiryu, Soryu, Junyo, Taiho, 2 Katsuragis, 3 CVLs and 4 CVEs fielding 810 + 110 ac.
My rough estimate thus indicates carrier parity by 3Q 43. The Hellcat will be superior to the Zeke while the Dauntless-Helldivers and Avengers will be comparable to the Judys and Jills.

New construction will keep us on a 1-1 parity slowling loosing its way to a 1-2 disadvantage at the end of first quarter 44.
This means we have a full year before Andy can challenge the KB if combined with LBA in a defensive role.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 25, 43

Surface Combat & Bomardments

Night Time Surface Combat, near Johnston Island at 164,113, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Hamakaze
DD Hagikaze
DD Murasame
DD Yamakaze

Allied Ships
PT-142
PT-143
PT-144, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PT-145
PT-146
PT-147

Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 82% moonlight: 8,000 yards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Johnston Island at 164,112, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Hamakaze
DD Hagikaze
DD Murasame
DD Yamakaze

Allied Ships
SC-742, Shell hits 3, and is sunk

Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 82% moonlight: 8,000 yards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Johnston Island at 164,112, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna
DD Hatsuzuki
DD Tanikaze
CL Ninaru

Allied Ships
PT-142
PT-143
PT-145, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-146, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-147

Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 82% moonlight: 8,000 yards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Johnston Island at 164,112, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna
DD Hatsuzuki
DD Tanikaze
CL Ninaru

Allied Ships
DM Tracy, Shell hits 4, and is sunk

Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 82% moonlight: 8,000 yards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Johnston Island at 164,112 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 2 destroyed on ground
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed on ground
F4F-4 Wildcat: 5 destroyed on ground
P-38G Lightning: 1 destroyed on ground

1 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima
BB Hiei
BB Haruna
BB Kongo
CA Mikuma
CL Ninaru

Allied Ships
AD Markab, Shell hits 1
CLAA Oakland, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AD Rigel, Shell hits 1

Allied ground losses:
315 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 15 destroyed, 29 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 20
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 162
Port hits 2

E13A1 Jake acting as spotter for BB Kirishima
BB Kirishima firing at Johnston Island
BB Hiei firing at Johnston Island
E13A1 Jake acting as spotter for BB Haruna
16th Marine Defense Battalion firing at BB Haruna
BB Haruna firing at 16th Marine Defense Battalion
BB Kongo firing at Johnston Island
CA Mikuma firing at Johnston Island
CL Ninaru firing at Johnston Island
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 37 encounters mine field at Palmyra (170,133)

Japanese Ships
AMc Wa 5
AMc Wa 4
AMc Wa 2
AMc Wa 1

57 mines cleared
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub Attacks

Sub attack near Palmyra at 171,133

Japanese Ships
PB Nagata Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Sargo

SS Sargo launches 4 torpedoes at PB Nagata Maru
Sargo diving deep ....
Sub escapes detection
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on 18th JNAF AF Unit , at 57,47 (Magwe)
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 41 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
Hudson IIIa x 3
B-25C Mitchell x 9

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged

Also attacking 6th Air Division ...
Also attacking 84th JAAF AF Bn ...
Also attacking 18th JNAF AF Unit ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 56th Recon Regiment, at 58,41
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 3

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Blenheim IV bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 31st Field AA Battalion, at 57,47 (Magwe
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 4

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment, at 59,42 (Kalemyo)
Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 25
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 34
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 21
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 63

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
36 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Kalemyo (59,42)
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 62420 troops, 712 guns, 844 vehicles, Assault Value = 2466
Defending force 22920 troops, 580 guns, 703 vehicles, Assault Value = 634

Japanese adjusted assault: 535
Allied adjusted defense: 2548

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 4 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
2629 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 187 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 129 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 10 disabled
Vehicles lost 27 (2 destroyed, 25 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
285 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 36 disabled
Non Combat: 25 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 7 disabled
Vehicles lost 23 (3 destroyed, 20 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
33rd Division
1st Formosa Inf. Regiment
79th Infantry Regiment
6th Tank Regiment
2nd Mobile Infantry Regiment
1st Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Regiment
Imperial Guards Division
2nd Mobile Engineer Regiment
65th Brigade
24th Infantry Regiment
6th Guards Division
22nd Recon Regiment
14th Tank Regiment
2nd Recon Battalion
38th Division
1st Recon Battalion
Guards Tank Division
21st Army

Defending units:
2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment
32nd Infantry Division
7th Australian Division
14th Indian Division
8th Belfast Heavy AA Rgt /1
13th Indian Light AA Rgt /1
3rd Heavy AA Rgt /1
25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
Pathan Construction Battalion
1st KNIL AA Bn /1
-----------------------------------------------------

Johnston Island

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by PzB -- 11/14/2010 3:52:38 PM >

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to janh)

Post #: 1623

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/14/2010 4:03:05 PM

CapAndGown

Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Assuming that Andy will find another British carrier he will then have the Enterprise, a UK carrier (maybe 2 or even 3), Sara and Lex as well as Essex, 2 CVLs and a dozen CVEs within October-November?
This means 5 CVs, 2 CVLs, 12 CVEs fielding 500 + 360 ac.

This sentence edited to add Princeton:

There are 3 Essex Class coming in July. (Yorktown II, Lexington II, Bunker Hill) plus six CVLs Monterey, Independence, Cowpens, Belleau Wood, Princeton and Cabot are due by November. CV Intrepid arrives in December, and then another 3 Essex class in March 44.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB
By the end of the year we should have the Akagi, Shokaku, Zuikaku, Hiryu, Soryu, Junyo, Taiho, 2 Katsuragis, 3 CVLs and 4 CVEs fielding 810 + 110 ac.

Are you doing any CS->CVL conversions?

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB
My rough estimate thus indicates carrier parity by years end. The Hellcat will be superior to the Zeke while the Dauntless-Helldivers and Avengers will be comparable to the Judys and Jills.

The American planes are better because of armor. What I have seen is that they are twice as hard to shoot down when compared to the Japanese planes. This means your CAP will not be as effective as the American CAP.

< Message edited by cap_and_gown -- 11/14/2010 4:06:50 PM >

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1624

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/14/2010 5:03:04 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Did an upgrade to all of those numbers after you quoted them C&G, didn't count the Y & L IIs and underrated the number of CVLs and CVEs at first.
Yep, 2 CS -> CVL conversions but it takes a lot of time and can't be accelerated. Probably forgot to include these two ships, so add another 2 CLVs and 60 ac for the Jap inventory.
- Also need to look at when the 3rd Katsuragi ship and Shinano will arrive; should be around years end as well.

But the basic ratio of 1/1 by 3Q 43 holds, then followed by a slide towards 1-2 by end 1Q 44. I would in other words not expect a full sized Allied offensive in the Central or Southern Pacific until end 43 or beginning 44.

Yep, enemy armored ac will be more durable so a prolonged battle is not to recommend.
Japanese carrier forces is more of a one shot Charlie by late 43; need to make the most out of the first attack and if the air fleets become depleted without inflicting serious damage to the enemy you need to retire ASAP.

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to CapAndGown)

Post #: 1625

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/14/2010 5:27:48 PM

inqistor

Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline

Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
DEFEND? Now is a time for pressing attack! Start defending, by expanding the perimeter

GET JOHNSTON ISLAND, BOMBARD WEST COAST, CUT USA FROM OCEAN!!!
Ok, I was kidding, although conquering of Johnston Island would be quite funny, defence of lone island is impossible. That was serious error from Andys side, to retreat there. Now he can not support it from rest of Hawaii. You should keep bombarding it, until all ships in port are sunk. 2ADs are priceless target.

Now is the beginning of at least 3 months of total sea domination, so time for some invasions. Somewhere, where several islands could establish mutually supporting airbases. I see two such chains, first is New Caledonia, which allow isolating Fiji even further, and second is island chain, near Alaska, where, I bet, all subs attacking Japan are replenishing. Allies seems poorly prepared for defence. Johnston Island is not maxed out, and even Pearl Harbour, with last recon, had not expanded port yet. But if you could scrap, like 5 extra Divisions, go for south-eastern Australia

40 is over month production of CORSAIRs, they have not fought particularly well. Because of pilots, or are they not that good? Anyway, another Allied Wunderwaffe seems not that Wunder. Second interesting thing is that daily sorties gap is beginning to seriously thin. In current situation Allies can not allow it. Press further the air offensive!

All those unwanted escorts from KB, made me wondering, if actually the main element needed for escort coordination, is experience? After all, attacks from Carriers are rarely split, and they have high experienced groups at game beginning.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Ground combat at Palmyra (170,133)
Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 3192 troops, 42 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 92
Defending force 1727 troops, 45 guns, 97 vehicles, Assault Value = 3

Japanese adjusted assault: 5

Tsk, tsk...
That was poorly prepared invasion. Airdrop would had better AV :)
There should be some barges in reserve, were they used?

quote:

Defender: disruption(-), preparation(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
supply(-)

And lack of supply is interesting. They must be burning in huge quantities because of overstacking, and bombardments. How much was there during capture? Over 20k?
Well, considering all, first attack should became disaster, but looks like, after all, audentes fortuna juvat.
3rd Marine Division had 90 experience. It should have over half of its infantry, and most Combat Engineers evacuated but most artillery, and support gone. What will be experience after rebuild? 45-50?

quote:

Ground combat at Kalemyo (59,42)
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 62420 troops, 712 guns, 844 vehicles, Assault Value = 2466
Defending force 22920 troops, 580 guns, 703 vehicles, Assault Value = 634

Japanese adjusted assault: 535
Allied adjusted defense: 2548

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 4 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: disruption(-)

Disruption over 50 is real assault force divider during attack. Unit can have problem even with 10 times weaker enemy. Just rest a day, and it should drop below 50. And assault ratio will rise accordingly.

(in reply to CapAndGown)

Post #: 1626

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/14/2010 7:28:23 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

I assumed that Andy would send all his valuable assets in Johnston Island fleeing; today a huge AD was sunk and a heavily damaged AS will most likely follow suit.
Wasn't too keen on letting the depleted air groups of the KB launch further air strikes against Johnston Island and thus exposing the carriers to more sub attack.

Good suggestions Inqistor!

Indeed, I got a full Bde prepping for Johnston Island but as you saw at Palmyra invading an atoll with units with less than 100 prep is asking for trouble.
The unit assaulting Palmyra had 56 prep and got a modified AV of 5... The question is whether what we can gain from capturing Johnston and Midway Islands by now; will it further our cause or only
doom the garrisons that will have to fight to the end as soon as the Allies gain supremacy by the end of the year?

New Caledonia has been open for capture since the beginning of the war but as we decided to move into Oz and the Central Pacific the High Command did not wish to further stretch our resources.
We simply don't have engineers, garrisons and aviation support to capture new territories now.
Alaska is a truly inhospitable place to fight; I'm currently digging into the islands from Paramushiro and towards the Home Islands.
SE Oz is most likely defended by more troops than we can land and I'm not keen on meeting huge numbers of LBA by mid 43.

Will consider our options and prepare for several while we replenish the KB and send our damaged ships to the yards.

The Corsairs fought in either a LRCAP or plain CAP role and was hit by lots of high altitude sweepers.
This negated much of their effect together with fighting superior numbers. So we still don't know how efficient Corsairs are, but no doubt used by skilled pilots in sweeps they
will be deadly.

I went over our carrier dispositions again:

We currently have 6 CVs (450 ac) 2 CVLs (60 ac) and 3 CVEs (90 ac) with a total of 600 ac.
By the end of the year we will receive another 5 CVs (370 ac), 2 CVLs (60 ac) and 2 CVEs (60 ac) with a total of 490 ac.
- This means we can scrounged almost 1100 carrier ac by the turn of the year.

In 44 we will receive our last carrier reinforcements; 3 CVs (210 ac), 1 CVL (30 ac) and 4 CVEs (60 ac) for a total of 300 ac; not a lot.
So 1944 will be the year the Allies truly establish their superiority.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 26, 43

Sub - ASW Attacks

SS-156 hit the Tjerk Hiddings with a dud...and had to pay for it.

Submarine attack near Niihau at 174,112

Japanese Ships
SS I-171

Allied Ships
AD Prairie, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

AD Prairie is sighted by SS I-171
SS I-171 launches 4 torpedoes at AD Prairie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Niihau at 174,112

Japanese Ships
SS I-171

Allied Ships
AS Griffin, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage

AS Griffin is sighted by SS I-171
SS I-171 launches 4 torpedoes at AS Griffin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Perth at 48,147

Japanese Ships
SS I-156, hits 22, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Tjerk Hiddes
TK Fenris
xAP Koolinda
xAP Koolama
xAP Aorangi
xAP Glenstrae
xAK Vitorlock
xAK Varela
xAK Sepia
xAK Lavington Court
xAK Governor
xAK Esperance
xAK Empire Plover
xAK Barjora
xAK Jalajaran
xAK Gandara
xAK African Prince
DE Arrow
AP Joseph T. Dickman
AP Leonard Wood

SS I-156 launches 8 torpedoes at DD Tjerk Hiddes
DD Tjerk Hiddes fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Tjerk Hiddes fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Tjerk Hiddes fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Tjerk Hiddes attacking submerged sub ....
DD Tjerk Hiddes attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-156 forced to surface!
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Tjerk Hiddes firing on surfaced sub ....
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Tjerk Hiddes firing on surfaced sub ....
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on 77th Chindit Brigade, at 60,42
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 22 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 26
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 36

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

Also attacking 23rd British Brigade ...
Also attacking 77th Chindit Brigade ...
Also attacking 23rd British Brigade ...
Also attacking 77th Chindit Brigade ...
Also attacking 23rd British Brigade ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 66th Chinese/C Corps, at 61,44
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 7000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 66th Chinese/C Corps, at 61,44
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 14
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 35

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
42 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
35 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Katha , at 61,43
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 17

Aircraft Attacking:
26 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Katha , at 61,43
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 29 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 14
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 14
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed, 13 damaged

Airbase hits 9
Runway hits 16

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 66th Chinese/C Corps, at 61,44
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 63

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
48 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bagging the fugitives

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to inqistor)

Post #: 1627

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/14/2010 8:08:41 PM

Saburo Kurusu

Posts: 67
Joined: 7/4/2010
From: Imperial Japanese Embassy, Berlin
Status: offline

I bow my head to honour and praise you, the mastermind and hero of all JFB's on this planet, dear PZB!!!
Reading those combat reports is as exiting as watching a good movie about the PTO! For me, as a newbie just in the process of playing his first campaign ever (I'm in Feb. 42 now), there is so much to learn from you!

And of course not to forget: BANZAI, BANZAI, BANZAI!!!!!

_____________________________

"Santa Maya must be liberated by any means necessary. Even diplomacy if it should come to it."

British PM Sir Mortimer Chris in "Whoops Apocalypse"

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1628

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/14/2010 8:34:42 PM

TenChiMato

Posts: 52
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Did an upgrade to all of those numbers after you quoted them C&G, didn't count the Y & L IIs and underrated the number of CVLs and CVEs at first.
Yep, 2 CS -> CVL conversions but it takes a lot of time and can't be accelerated. Probably forgot to include these two ships, so add another 2 CLVs and 60 ac for the Jap inventory.

Hi PzB,
please remember you can now convert all the 4 CS and not just the Chitose and Chiyoda, so add Nishin and the other one (sorry forgot its name) to your to do list.

< Message edited by TenChiMato -- 11/14/2010 8:35:39 PM >

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1629

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/14/2010 8:49:39 PM

Cap Mandrake

Posts: 23184
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Ouch...somebody is going to need a couple of martinis.

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Post #: 1630

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/14/2010 10:19:55 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Thx Saburo

Have you posted on this thread before? If not, welcome you are!
But keep in mind that Scen 2 is tough for the Allied player and Japan should be able to extend Yamatos proficy about running wild for a year.
- Glad you can pick up some tips and hints tough, also makes it more fun to write up the AAR when I know ppl are reading and enjoying.

PS! You should also read Cap and gowns AAR to get more JFB motivation

That's true TenChiMato! I have chosen not to upgrade the remaining 2 seaplane tenders for 2 reasons:
1. One has a max speed of 22 knots and would have to hold the CVEs company
2. Having seaplane tenders help with ASW and scouting work is a good asset and I'm not sure a 30 ac CVL would benefit us much.
- Using CS to escort convoys with both ASW, search and Rufes for CAP can be handy.

This said I may chose to convert them at a later time if required.

Lol, think Andy is a beer man Capt'n

Pretty sure he will recover quickly; as I remember from our last game I could almost not sink fleet carriers from 1944 and onwards.
Andy heavily utilizes his jeep carriers and send in huge fleets that bristle with flak and CAP - you have seen how durable Allied ships are, takes a dozen bombs and torps to
sink.

Quiet turn, in a few days we start production of the A6M5 - I have only 25 A6M2 in the pool together with 60 A6M3a's.
Plan has been not to overproduce ac types and be left with huge stacks of obsolete models.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 27, 43

Ground Combat

Trying to clear this Chinese unit out of the jungle hex south of Katha - the Allies only beachead.
Not an easy task but given enough time we should boot it back over the river.

If nothing else I want to establish the most favorable frontline in Burma beforethe monsoon sets in.

Ground combat at 61,44
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 7254 troops, 45 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 303
Defending force 4000 troops, 52 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 155

Japanese adjusted assault: 155
Allied adjusted defense: 145

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
209 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
237 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 21 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
113th Infantry Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
16th Infantry Regiment

Defending units:
66th Chinese/C Corps
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Central Pacific

I'm thinking about how we should deploy our troops in this area.
- How many troops should be used as garrisons in an area we know can't be hold much longer than sometime into 1944?
- Which kinds of garrisons would be optimal for the different islands? Divisions, regiments, naval guard units, engineers, tanks, mines etc.
- How much air support and how many planes should be held in readiness?
- How many ships and of which types should we deploy here?

If we have to fight yet another battle for the Line Islands, let me know what you think would be the optimal defensive-offensive dispositions!

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

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Post #: 1631

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/14/2010 11:09:11 PM

CapAndGown

Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
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Well, I wouldn't have gone for the line islands in the first place, and then would not have defended them as tenaciously as you have. And I would have been wrong, apparently.

Nevertheless, I still don't like them. I prefer interlocking, mutually supporting bases. Therefore, I would prefer the Gilberts and Marshalls.

As the game currently stands, the way to make your LBA work for you against carriers is to use it to CAP something that the enemy CAGs will attack. Generally, this means a TF of some sort. By putting a strong CAP over something that the enemy CAGs attack you will be able to wear down their air groups in preparation for committing the KB. What is needed then to prepare for such a battle is some ships that you can throw out there for the enemy CAGs to attack.

Also, I did not see that you used any LRCAP over the KB. That can be effective. From what little I have seen, Tojo's seem to preform at least as well and perhaps better than Zero's against Hellcats.

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Post #: 1632

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/15/2010 7:45:43 AM

castor troy

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From: Austria
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The Corsair is IMO by far not as dangerous as the P-47. What the Corsair was for everyone in WITP is the P-47 for me in AE. Fast, as durable as a two engined Lightning and EIGHT cal.50. And not to forget the ceiling of 42000ft if you play without any alt restrictions. Excellent service rate of course too.

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Post #: 1633

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/15/2010 8:04:05 AM

EUBanana

Posts: 4552
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From: Little England
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Corsairs have service rating 3, which means their main function will be sweeping, not CAP, as otherwise you'll have a bunch in maintenance all the time.

Which is bad for them, as with range 8, they aren't the most flexible sweepers.

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Post #: 1634

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/15/2010 8:55:08 AM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Corsairs have service rating 3, which means their main function will be sweeping, not CAP, as otherwise you'll have a bunch in maintenance all the time.

Which is bad for them, as with range 8, they aren't the most flexible sweepers.

this changes with the second model in late 43 though. That one got a service rating of 2 and you get drop tanks for both the first and second model, gives them a range of 12 which isn�t that bad. And I�ve even been using the first model for Cap, never really had problem with it. Granted, not using insane Cap % but that�s something you can�t do anyway as a Cap % of 70% would sky rocket the pilots� fat in two days to 30+.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 11/15/2010 8:56:04 AM >

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Post #: 1635

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/15/2010 4:39:09 PM

Lomri

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Joined: 2/6/2009
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quote:

Our 3rd consecutive attack in Kalemyo was not a success; had hoped that the fatigued and disrupted defenders would suffer more than the troops attacking. Not quite so, enemy AV
was adjusted from 650 to 2500, quite outrageous really

quote:

Japanese ground losses:
2629 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 187 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 129 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 10 disabled
Vehicles lost 27 (2 destroyed, 25 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
285 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 36 disabled
Non Combat: 25 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 7 disabled
Vehicles lost 23 (3 destroyed, 20 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

I could be wrong, but my impression from these types of long attrition ground combats with lots of LCUs is that at a certain point you wear down your enemy, and only then do you start destroying LCUs. This is slightly different in AE than WitP from what I've seen, but in WitP I know once you started getting into the "destroyed unit" stage, it was close to over. And losses will look light when you destroy a single LCU because it seems like losses are (mostly?) limited to the unit being destroyed.

I guess my point is while this didn't look great since it was 1 to 4, the destruction of a unit looks to me like a sign that he is about to break here.

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Post #: 1636

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/15/2010 5:57:03 PM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

The Corsair is IMO by far not as dangerous as the P-47. What the Corsair was for everyone in WITP is the P-47 for me in AE. Fast, as durable as a two engined Lightning and EIGHT cal.50. And not to forget the ceiling of 42000ft if you play without any alt restrictions. Excellent service rate of course too.

Hmm. Doesn't seem to make sense. As we all know planes like the Corsair and P38 ruled the Pacific for a reason.....anyway

PzB - congratulations on your victory. I have to be honest and think Andy has played very poorly here and handed you this but you had to take it and act proficiently which you did. Well done.

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Post #: 1637

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/15/2010 7:52:47 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
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I've never managed to defend the Marshalls well; loads of little islands that can be captured and built up to provide LBA support for the enemy.
But why not defend both the Line Islands and the Marshalls?

Indeed, lots of ships and CAP is important and I think we have that in place already.

Not sure I would cast judgement over the Corsair now; it was deployed early in an unfavorable position and it's still not as reliable as it will be later in the war.
Just like deploying Tigers in the marshes south of Leningrad in 8-42.

I'm afraid the ground unit that was destroyed was one of the AA gun partial units flown in.
Today we attacked again; 4 times stronger than the enemy, achieved only a 1-2 odds and took 4 times more casualties than the enemy.
Yes, we're wearing down the defenders but it's a slow grind. In a few day a full size crack division will join us.

Thx Speedy. Indeed, Andy didn't call it his greatest achievement - but again; he assumed and made one bad decision.
This combined with bad luck (one more hex and he would have gotten clean away). One single hex was the difference between a clean escape and total defeat.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 28, 43

Sub Attacks

Today we finish of not only the AS Griffin but also the CLAA Oakland, adding further to the tally!

Sub attack near Lihue at 176,112

Japanese Ships
SS I-159

Allied Ships
AS Griffin, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

SS I-159 launches 8 torpedoes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Johnston Island at 164,112

Japanese Ships
SS I-166

Allied Ships
CLAA Oakland, Torpedo hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

CLAA Oakland is sighted by SS I-166
SS I-166 launches 4 torpedoes at CLAA Oakland
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Kalemyo (59,42)
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 66234 troops, 750 guns, 905 vehicles, Assault Value = 2502
Defending force 22691 troops, 578 guns, 700 vehicles, Assault Value = 617

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1143
Allied adjusted defense: 1537

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3075 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 163 disabled
Non Combat: 10 destroyed, 128 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 39 disabled
Guns lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)
Vehicles lost 33 (1 destroyed, 32 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
730 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 42 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 96 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Vehicles lost 47 (3 destroyed, 44 disabled)

Assaulting units:
14th Tank Regiment
6th Guards Division
1st Tank Regiment
1st Formosa Inf. Regiment
22nd Recon Regiment
79th Infantry Regiment
2nd Mobile Engineer Regiment
2nd Mobile Infantry Regiment
65th Brigade
2nd Recon Battalion
24th Infantry Regiment
38th Division
33rd Division
1st Recon Battalion
6th Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Regiment
Imperial Guards Division
Guards Tank Division
21st Army

Defending units:
7th Australian Division
2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment
32nd Infantry Division
14th Indian Division
13th Indian Light AA Rgt /1
3rd Heavy AA Rgt /1
25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
8th Belfast Heavy AA Rgt /1
1st KNIL AA Bn /1
----------------------------------------------------------------

For Davy Jones Locker

Think we can remove the Colorado and maybe the Lexington from this list and exchange the Enterprise for the Hornet; the Wasp should also be added as confirmed sinkings together with the South Dakota.

3 carriers
2 battleships
5 heavy cruisers
2 anti aircraft cruisers
8-9 destroyers
ca 5 subs
1 AS
1 AD
10 SC
14 PTs

That's a major sized enemy fleet - not a bad tally!

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

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- Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Post #: 1638

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/15/2010 10:59:54 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Nice thing is that if Andy gets his act together and does not make any more rash mistakes then you have a very good chance of the game going deep into 1946 and being very competitive at the end. It will be fun to see some of the late and post war aircraft in action.

Tojo fares better vs the hellcat as it has decent speed and a much better rate of climb over the zero. But the hellcat is still very good vs the tojo. Hellcat is not as quick as some later war Allied planes but has a great climb rate. I am beginning to think that aside from speed (speed kills), the climb rate of a plane in AE is very important. It seems to me that it helps to break the endless dive if a plane has a good climb rate.

Early corsair is fine but not for point defense at advance bases. When it gets drop tanks it will be OK and the lower service rating of the October version will make a great difference. Lightning is better than the corsair due to its great range but I suspect that the later corsair will be better than the lightning.

I am just getting the P47 and it looks like a war winnner to me....I can't see any weakness and the service rating of one is really a rare treat for the Allies. But of course, in scen #2 the Allied player always seems to be short of aircraft so you gotta watch the losses.

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Post #: 1639

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/16/2010 7:45:41 AM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

The Corsair is IMO by far not as dangerous as the P-47. What the Corsair was for everyone in WITP is the P-47 for me in AE. Fast, as durable as a two engined Lightning and EIGHT cal.50. And not to forget the ceiling of 42000ft if you play without any alt restrictions. Excellent service rate of course too.

Hmm. Doesn't seem to make sense. As we all know planes like the Corsair and P38 ruled the Pacific for a reason.....anyway

PzB - congratulations on your victory. I have to be honest and think Andy has played very poorly here and handed you this but you had to take it and act proficiently which you did. Well done.

only judging from my PBEM, someone else probably will find out something totally different.

But if you look at the stats of the P-47 and F4U then it�s no surprise that the P-47 is far superior. Faster, more durable, higher gun value, better service rating, better range, higher max alt. What else would you need?

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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/16/2010 7:57:45 AM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

The Corsair is IMO by far not as dangerous as the P-47. What the Corsair was for everyone in WITP is the P-47 for me in AE. Fast, as durable as a two engined Lightning and EIGHT cal.50. And not to forget the ceiling of 42000ft if you play without any alt restrictions. Excellent service rate of course too.

Hmm. Doesn't seem to make sense. As we all know planes like the Corsair and P38 ruled the Pacific for a reason.....anyway

PzB - congratulations on your victory. I have to be honest and think Andy has played very poorly here and handed you this but you had to take it and act proficiently which you did. Well done.

only judging from my PBEM, someone else probably will find out something totally different. But if you look at the stats of the P-47 and F4U then it�s no surprise that the P-47 is far superior. Faster, more durable, higher gun value, better service rating, better range, higher max alt. What else would you need?

Not disagreeing with you on the in game stats

Just doesn't stack up with RL results

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Post #: 1641

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/16/2010 7:59:05 AM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

The Corsair is IMO by far not as dangerous as the P-47. What the Corsair was for everyone in WITP is the P-47 for me in AE. Fast, as durable as a two engined Lightning and EIGHT cal.50. And not to forget the ceiling of 42000ft if you play without any alt restrictions. Excellent service rate of course too.

Hmm. Doesn't seem to make sense. As we all know planes like the Corsair and P38 ruled the Pacific for a reason.....anyway

PzB - congratulations on your victory. I have to be honest and think Andy has played very poorly here and handed you this but you had to take it and act proficiently which you did. Well done.

only judging from my PBEM, someone else probably will find out something totally different. But if you look at the stats of the P-47 and F4U then it�s no surprise that the P-47 is far superior. Faster, more durable, higher gun value, better service rating, better range, higher max alt. What else would you need?

Not disagreeing with you on the in game stats Just doesn't stack up with RL results

that�s probably because real life combat didn�t happen at 42000ft.

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Post #: 1642

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/16/2010 8:00:15 AM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
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Ah these gamers

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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/16/2010 9:26:58 AM

janh

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LOL. Yeah, I was also under the impression that the Corsair and the Hellcat should be no worse than the Mustang. Always was a big fan of the Corsair. Will be interesting to see how it will do later. Don't recall that it appeared prominent in any of the more advanced AARs, but maybe I just didn't look closely enough.

Indeed, the tally is pretty impressive. Kind of an "inverted Solomons campaign result" for the Japanese this time. But Andy will recover and meanwhile harass you elsewhere. This will indeed make for another very exciting and interesting AAR. I can't wait!

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Post #: 1644

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/16/2010 5:14:49 PM

inqistor

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Firstly we should consider, where Allies could strike. Maybe not literally "where they could strike", but "how hard will it be to repel them":

(1) From India. Allied airforce here are tightly engaged, so probably there are no extra free units:
Landing in the Burma area will meet Burma airforce, which is probably half of Japan strength, so it would be clear suicide.
Somewhere near Singapore - too much bases in the area. When Allies have clear air superiority it is an option. Now it is exactly opposite

(2) Kuriles - are in range of restricted airforce from Japan. Bad choice

(3) Wake - there is only Marcus Island as nearby Japan base, but Wake is so small it can not support any kind of further operation

(4) Guam - too far from nearest Allied base. Easy to cut off. Out of range of most planes from Hawaii

Thorn in Allied side - direct communication between Hawaii, and Australia:

(5) Marshall Islands - Kwajalein is strong Japan base. There is lots of islands, and USA do not have THAT much air units yet. But it is possibility.

(6) Baker/Canton - as above, but probably easier to take. If they will be not attacked now, they probably will be next target, after Line Islands. In case of invasion, they will be flanked from two directions (Line, and Marshalls)

(7) Line Islands - most logical, and nearest to Hawaii. Only 3 bases so far, and 2 other possible.

Attack supported from Fiji - so back to number 6. Maybe toward Tarawa, with another strike toward Baker from Hawaii. Allies do not have enough Carriers probably.

Attack supported from Australia/New Zealand. There was some initial attempts, so this is probably next target, but it needs extra troops, and planes from USA, which must be delivered by Line Islands/Gilbert Islands, or by looooong detour:

(8) Port Moresby, or Guadalcanal. Lots, and lots of bases. It will result in air battle of attrition, so needs clear path to fly new units from USA

(9) Timor - it must be supported from north-eastern Australia, which is currently in Japanese hands

So, looks, that there are plans for Port Moresby/Guadalcanal, but since all Carriers, and even British Swordfish planes are at Hawaii, there would be main base for another strike. So Line Islands, Marshalls or Gilberts. Line of communication is vital for further operations.

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Post #: 1645

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/16/2010 9:11:46 PM

PzB74

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Yep, have no doubt about this will be another 46 game

Score is at ca 17k to 40k points - will take Andy well into 45 to get even if we play our cards right.

Your list shows that Andy doesn't have any easy attack routes Inquistor!
The convoys into Perth indicate that he may turn back to Oz again now.
Efate south of Luganville has been built to size 2 AF and fighter sweeps have started to appear.
We could hit Efate and Noumea and kick him back towards Suva and just leave a holding garrison that will require an amph invasion with carriers

The 5 PH KB carriers arrives at Truk and start taking plane and pilot reinforcements.
We have enough pilots, relative few losses; drawing some from training command, some from reserves and some are transferred from training units in the Home Islands.
- Most carriers are due for their 4/43 upgrade soon so the question is whether we should send them home for a 30 day R&R or keep them in theater and take advantage of our newly won superiority.

We bomb enemy positions in Burma heavily and today we finally get a break;
The Chink unit south of the river is kicked back and we now secure our right flank.
Our assault in Kalemyo achieves a 1-1 odds and the enemy is on the verge of breaking.

The reason for this is that the Burma Area Army arrived a few days ago so I sent the 8th Area Army from Rangoon to Mandalay.
With a 5 hex range we now provide more and better HQ support to our troops. I will try sending the Burma Area Army HQ forward as well.

Tomorrow a crack division will reinforce our troops in Kalemyo; the question is whether we should continue with deliberate attacks or attempt
a shock attack. The 70th Brit division is on the road to the north and may reinforce the enemy in a few days, so I don't know how much time we got.
When it's in place we'll have to start over again or even give up if it's full strength.

So what's your recommendation?

I would like to use the paras but have elected not to do so because the 50% reduction of enemy AV doesn't seem to be right.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 30, 43

ASW Attacks

Yuck, 2 DC hits but the huge sub can sail home with only 40 flood damage.
Think we were saved by the bell...DD ran out of ammo!
Huge convoys moving into Perth!

ASW attack near Perth at 37,147

Japanese Ships
SS I-30, hits 4

Allied Ships
xAP West Point
xAK Nuculana
DD Nestor

SS I-30 is sighted by escort
DD Nestor fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Nestor attacking submerged sub ....
DD Nestor fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Nestor fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Nestor attacking submerged sub ....
DD Nestor is out of ASW ammo
DD Nestor is out of ASW ammo
DD Nestor is out of ASW ammo
DD Nestor is out of ASW ammo
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on II/81st Naval Guard Unit, at 120,150 (Luganville)
Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 24 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 6

No Allied losse

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x P-39D Airacobra sweeping at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 70th British Division, at 59,41
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 42 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 14
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 9

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
10 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 9000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 70th British Division, at 59,41
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 14
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 9

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 17th Indian Light AA Regiment, at 59,41
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 44 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-48-IIa Lily x 18

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-48-IIa Lily: 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-48-IIa Lily bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment, at 59,42 (Kalemyo)
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 26
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 25
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 90

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 2 damaged

Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 14th Indian Division ...
Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 14th Indian Division ...
Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 14th Indian Division ...
Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 14th Indian Division ...
Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 14th Indian Division ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 70th British Division, at 59,41
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 43 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 31

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged

Allied ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on II/81st Naval Guard Unit, at 120,150 (Luganville)
Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 10

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x F4F-3 Wildcat bombing from 3000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 lb GP Bomb
4 x F4F-3 Wildcat bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 lb GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment, at 59,42 (Kalemyo)
Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 7 damaged

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 6 (5 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment, at 59,42 (Kalemyo)
Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 42 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 26
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 27
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 20
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 3

No Japanese losses
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at 61,44
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 7279 troops, 45 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 308
Defending force 3799 troops, 52 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 133

Japanese adjusted assault: 208
Allied adjusted defense: 79

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
92 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1233 casualties reported
Squads: 55 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 48 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
113th Infantry Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
16th Infantry Regiment

Defending units:
66th Chinese/C Corps
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Kalemyo (59,42)
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 59055 troops, 696 guns, 773 vehicles, Assault Value = 2389
Defending force 21940 troops, 573 guns, 697 vehicles, Assault Value = 574

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1047
Allied adjusted defense: 817

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)
Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1781 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 90 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 69 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 17 disabled
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Vehicles lost 53 (3 destroyed, 50 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
889 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 71 disabled
Non Combat: 49 destroyed, 34 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Vehicles lost 33 (4 destroyed, 29 disabled)

Assaulting units:
1st Tank Regiment
79th Infantry Regiment
2nd Mobile Engineer Regiment
6th Tank Regiment
1st Recon Battalion
33rd Division
2nd Mobile Infantry Regiment
2nd Recon Battalion
38th Division
14th Tank Regiment
65th Brigade
Imperial Guards Division
1st Formosa Inf. Regiment
2nd Tank Regiment
22nd Recon Regiment
24th Infantry Regiment
6th Guards Division
Guards Tank Division
21st Army

Defending units:
32nd Infantry Division
7th Australian Division
2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment
14th Indian Division
8th Belfast Heavy AA Rgt /1
3rd Heavy AA Rgt /1
25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
13th Indian Light AA Rgt /1
1st KNIL AA Bn /1
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Burma

The 3nd Div is a spent force and the Indian Div will follow suit soon after.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by PzB -- 11/16/2010 9:12:45 PM >

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to inqistor)

Post #: 1646

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/16/2010 9:47:52 PM

Nemo121

Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline

Well, if you don't shock attack now you might as well never shock attack. I doubt a Shock Attack will get you a 2:1 though unless you either:
a) use paras at the same time or
b) prep VERY heavily with bombers.

As to not using the paras... It is in the game, it can be used by both sides and if you think of them as a sacrificial paradrop on the enemy HQ to disrupt C&I just before the attack I don't think it is too far-fetched honestly...

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1647

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/16/2010 10:43:20 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

Agreed, as long as you are dropping a whole unit or making an honest effort to do so (at least the lions share of it if it's one of the large units).

(in reply to Nemo121)

Post #: 1648

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/17/2010 5:57:12 PM

inqistor

Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Morning Air attack on II/81st Naval Guard Unit, at 120,150 (Luganville)

Since Andy can not break through Line Islands, he probably decided to launch attack from Australia anyway. Direct assault on New Caledonia should ruin his whole plan

Plus, it would be interesting to destroy those squadrons on ground. Getting another from USA will take month, or another risky trip of CV.

According to manual Corps HQ in range of Area HQ can add up to 90% AV, so it is probably one of the skills of Corps, or Area Commander. Or multiplier of both. Land? Leadership? Anyway, change of commands here could give badly needed boost in Burma.

LINE ISLANDS DEFENCE PLAN. Tojo is already in use, so lets call it YAMAMOTO LINE:

First order of business, to address immediately - hordes of enemy submarines in the area. ASW air unit at every island. Including Washington (could be float, with AV support). Getting there several specialised ASW TFs.

Since Japan do not have enough land-based naval-attacking airunits, to challenge Allied Carrier fleet, yet, the reasonable goal of defence would be:
(1) Destroying of enemy specialised naval landing assets. Possibly still loaded. And escorting large ships (Battleships, and Cruisers)
(2) Weakening his carrier aircraft strength
That means heavy area patrolling, as early warning, and heavy air presence at whole chain.

Execution:

Patrol planes at Palmyra, with supporting AV ship. To quickly withdraw, when invasion comes.
Washington, and Fanning - airfields for short range army fighters, and anti-ship planes (TBs preferably). Also dive bombers at Fanning. Patrol unit on every island.
That would allow to keep one fighter unit on LRCAP over Palmyra all the time.
Christmas: BETTYs, and AIR HQ, NAVY HQ, main repair base.

Ships:

At least two ships for mine keeping
One miner
One submarine miner
Mine cache obviously
Several ships for mine clearance
AS, AD (maybe 2), AR, whatever this water pumping ship designation is
Lots of short-range submarines.
Lots of midget subs ready to deploy
Enough supply on every island, to create those midgets, or barges at will (according to manual 10k+)

Does convoys from USA go around the globe, or are they sneaking east, or west of Line Islands? To address that possibility:

Two hunting fleets for passing convoys (large, with 2 CAs)
Two search fleets, with lots of search planes (CS?)

Land:

During invasion defence it is good to use lots of large guns for shooting at invading crafts. So maybe artillery, or CD, but the later are far too rare, and island will probably fall anyway. So it would be better to keep them in possible bombardment sites, which are also hard to assault.
Some of islands are small, so we need best "bang for buck" (I mean AV for person), so probably tanks. Also small AA short-range units (they will be shooting DBs anyway) on every island could be useful. The only ability for defending unit, which I find "could make difference", would be experience.

Deployment:

Palmyra:
PA unit, and float ASW unit, so probably also 2 AVs. Tank, AA, and infantry with lots of guns.

For Washington Island first goal should be port building to enable ANY kind of unloading. I am guessing Andy will not be prepared to assault this island against serious opposition in first attempt:
Airfield level 3, with large F, plus TB, ASW, and PA unit. Tanks, AA, Base Force, and infantry

For Fanning:
Same as Washington, plus army bombers. Maybe CD. Maybe BETTYs. Maybe transport planes (in case of bad weather), and air-transportable SNLF units. Medium unit (large SNLF), and Tank Unit for quick counterattack at Washington Island (with planning already for Washington Island)

Christmas:
Long range fighters*2, BETTYs, army bombers, PA, ASW, transport planes, few SNLFs for quick reinforcements (with planning for other islands in chain), few extra AA units - for quick fly in, in case of aerial attack, few larger units, and Tank Units for counter-assault (also prepared for other islands. Mainly Palmyra, and Washington Island). HQ with torpedoes. Maybe Corps HQ, for counter-invasion. Maybe some short-range anti-shipping planes (TBs preferably), as quick reinforcements. Maybe additional short-range army fighters, when frontline ones gets depleted (or Allies make detour).

Jarvis Island could be useful as long-range fighters base (again in case of bad weather).

Overall problem with most exposed islands is their size. Maybe simple trick - putting there infantry, then flying it out by planes (so only heavy equipment will stay), and instead landing engineers there, for fortifications building. When enemy shows up, evacuate engineers by sea, and fly/sea transport infantry back.

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1649

RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle! - 11/17/2010 10:32:31 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Ok, I'll load up some 3rd Raiding unit paras and send them in together with tomorrows assault.
The fresh crack 53rd Div will join the assault then. 3 new enemy units have entered the hex, not sure if this includes a full division.
A bit weary about ordering a shock assault, can easily break our neck. Let's see what the results with paras will be.

Yamamoto Line it is

Enemy subs have more or less withdrawn after the battle.

The challenge with building Washington island is lack of engineers and aviation support.
All available engineers are busy building Fanning and Christmas Island as well as repairing damage on Palmyra.
- I've scrounged and deployed most available construction engineers in the Empire and we simply don't have many reserves, same applies for base force units.
Of course we will receive reinforcements in the months to come, so let's start building fortifications.

Christmas Island is currently a size 5(5) airfield and can be expanded to size 8. Fanning Island is now a size 3(3) and can be expanded to size 6.
I think it's better use of resources to focus on maximizing these bases first. If Fanning Island becomes a huge fortress Andy will have a much harder time invading Palmyra.
Invading Fanning Island first will trap him between Palmyra and Christmas Island. So this may be a way to force an approach that will require much more Allied time and resources to pull off.

Arty don't fire at landing craft, only coastal guns. We have 1 large CD units and a smaller one in the Line Islands, that's all there is.
Also remember that logistics this far from the Home Islands is a bit�h. The Combined Fleet entering Truk ate up 90% of fuel reserves there and now I have to replenish Truk
and fill up the fleet oilers.

An operation against Efate - New Caledonia will also require supply and fuel. So for the first weeks to come we need to repair, upgrade and replenish.
So let's see what we can do about your suggestions in due time Inq

Playing AE is truly a waiting and patience game most of the time.

Ok, todays battles:

Tried to bomb Kalemyo but weather prevented it....we did hit troops on the road to the north and tangled with CAP fighters.
Brought down quite a few and lost some unescorted Lily's in return. Have a penal bomber unit flying dangerous missions using the last Lily IIs not in ASW service.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 31, 43

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on II/81st Naval Guard Unit, at 120,150 (Luganville)
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 6

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x P-39D Airacobra sweeping at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 19th USN Naval Construction Battalion, at 59,41
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 70th British Division, at 59,41
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 46 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 14
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 19
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 18

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 10 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 3 destroyed

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 19th USN Naval Construction Battalion, at 59,41
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 43 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-48-IIa Lily x 17

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 13
P-39D Airacobra x 4
P-40E Warhawk x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-48-IIa Lily: 5 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 19th USN Naval Construction Battalion, at 59,41
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 48 NM, estimated altitude 32,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 30

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 13
P-39D Airacobra x 4
P-40E Warhawk x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 2 destroyed
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 30000 feet *
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 3rd Heavy AA Regiment, at 59,41
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 6
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 30

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 16 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
30 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Burma