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Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/27/2010 8:16:10 PM   
RUDOLF


Posts: 261
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... in my testing it is my conclution, anyone who has another conclution?

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RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/27/2010 8:17:29 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I didn't think that they tried to fix it with this patch. 

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Post #: 2
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/27/2010 8:39:37 PM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline 		It's nowhere to be seen in the changelog, and I think I saw an earlier comment saying that it would be in the next patch, so it isn't supposed to work yet I think.

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 3
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/27/2010 9:09:17 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Definitely not included in this patch.


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Post #: 4
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/27/2010 9:51:06 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		They specifically said only three code changes in this patch, and even went so far as to call them "hot fixes" in a post. Ground radar, attack bombers, and a bug that was causing crashes/freezes. The search arc fix is not included.

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 5
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/28/2010 10:58:49 AM   
cantona2


Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		Still cannot see the problem with the arcs. In my game vs Ramon they seem to be working just fine. Definitely spotting his wolf packs off Ceylon with no problems.

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Post #: 6
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/28/2010 1:54:46 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		It all depends on what arc settings are used. Some arcs work fine, some don't. Which originally made me swap the code around. Which made the working one not, and the not working ones work.

I am getting a headache now


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Post #: 7
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/28/2010 4:07:04 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline 		Change the interface to be a principal search direction in tens of degrees and a search arc in tens of degrees. If the search arc is 0 degrees, only the search direction is searched.

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"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 8
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/28/2010 4:38:29 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		It is fine with me if they don't fix it. Search works fine with out the arcs and having to set search arcs and watch over them proved to be just another marvelous time suck for me. Leave it as it is.

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Post #: 9
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/28/2010 4:47:36 PM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

It is fine with me if they don't fix it. Search works fine with out the arcs and having to set search arcs and watch over them proved to be just another marvelous time suck for me. Leave it as it is.


I thought the point of WitP was to be a time suck?

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 10
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/29/2010 7:09:38 AM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

It is fine with me if they don't fix it. Search works fine with out the arcs and having to set search arcs and watch over them proved to be just another marvelous time suck for me. Leave it as it is.


I thought the point of WitP was to be a time suck?


Not if you use HG Wells' Time Machine

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Post #: 11
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/29/2010 7:27:26 AM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline 		P=NP if you have a time machine.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Pascal_slith)
Post #: 12
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/29/2010 10:41:08 AM   
Roger Neilson II


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: Newcastle upon Tyne. England
Status: offline 		There's time sucks and there's TIME SUCKS.

I'd be happy not to have to set arcs, and a few other little time sucks.

I do so wish that the ship withdrawal was automatic, or asked you to confirm you'd let it happen - have had umpteen ships in totally the wrong places and had to spend weeks getting them to a place to get rid of them!


Roger

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Post #: 13
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/29/2010 10:55:16 AM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I never liked search arcs. IMO this kind of 1-3 day turns grand strategy game is just wrong game to have that kind of micromanagement.

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Post #: 14
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/29/2010 11:48:40 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I never liked search arcs. IMO this kind of 1-3 day turns grand strategy game is just wrong game to have that kind of micromanagement.


But they looks so pretty when you hit the Z key.

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Post #: 15
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/29/2010 12:15:56 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Well I have never tried the Z key. So maybe there is a reason to have search arcs! 

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Post #: 16
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/29/2010 4:16:50 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I like search arcs. When I hit the Z key I could quickly check to see if I had continuous coverage of the important areas (or at least the semblance of continuous coverage). It doesn't really take that much extra time to set them up - when you move a squadron to its new location you adjust the search zone, big deal. The joy is that the game allowed for both styles of play: those who like search zones and those who ignore them. Right now those who like search zones are left out in the cold...

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 17
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/29/2010 4:22:55 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		It is a marvelous game but the time needed to play it is twice that of WITP due to a thousand more clicks needed. I find that trying to play two campaigns is almost impossible.

It is like going to see a four hour movie. Might be a great movie but for god sakes who want to see a freaking four hour movie? Edit, edit, edit. Some time spent on the next patch should be devoted to streamlining the game. I know I speak like a heritic but it just has to be done. My wife just gets tired of calling me down for dinner over and over........

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Post #: 18
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/29/2010 4:32:01 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II

I'd be happy not to have to set arcs, and a few other little time sucks.

Roger


But you don't have to set search/ASW arcs and never did. Even after they release the fix you won't have to...

(in reply to Roger Neilson II)
Post #: 19
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/29/2010 5:13:13 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Which is a bit like saying the Japanese economy can run itself. You know it CAN but do you WANT it to?

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(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 20
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/29/2010 5:26:52 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Well, search arcs will give better results because they concentrate the assigned planes in a smaller area. But the old code is still there - and being used now - so when you have a group set with no arc (000 to 000) you get coverage.

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Post #: 21
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/30/2010 5:08:54 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Yes, I know but I got a hot game going against a good opponent. As said above, if it is there and it will give me a slight edge, I won't be able to not use it. Another half hour of clicking.....

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Post #: 22
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/30/2010 7:26:16 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yes, I know but I got a hot game going against a good opponent. As said above, if it is there and it will give me a slight edge, I won't be able to not use it. Another half hour of clicking.....



You know that you are exaggerating, right? It will add a hour or more to the first turn, but after that I would wager that it adds no more than a few minutes per turn - only needing to be done when a unit is moved or newly arrived.

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 23
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/30/2010 10:28:02 AM   
Kaletsch2007

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

It is a marvelous game but the time needed to play it is twice that of WITP due to a thousand more clicks needed. I find that trying to play two campaigns is almost impossible.

It is like going to see a four hour movie. Might be a great movie but for god sakes who want to see a freaking four hour movie? Edit, edit, edit. Some time spent on the next patch should be devoted to streamlining the game. I know I speak like a heritic but it just has to be done. My wife just gets tired of calling me down for dinner over and over........


You still have time for dinner with your wife ?
I need to improve my time management

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 24
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/30/2010 10:46:38 AM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Well, search arcs will give better results because they concentrate the assigned planes in a smaller area. But the old code is still there - and being used now - so when you have a group set with no arc (000 to 000) you get coverage.


I actually think not setting search arcs sometimes has it's advantages. If you have a limited number of planes that need to search a large area (let's say enough planes to search 100° but you need to cover 300°), then setting search arcs will give you excellent coverage for a small part of the area, but no coverage at all for the rest. Not setting any search arcs you will lose some planes to the useless 60°, but at least due to the randomness you will have a chance of spotting enemies in every part of the 300° you do want to search. At the very least you will not leave a large, guaranteed open sector for your opponent to exploit.

If the search routine allows for spotting in neighbouring sectors, or allows ships to be spotted by planes in every sector that it transited, then non-continuous random sectors are certainly the way to go if there is a lack of planes to give dedicated search everywhere.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 25
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 11/30/2010 7:27:22 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yes, I know but I got a hot game going against a good opponent. As said above, if it is there and it will give me a slight edge, I won't be able to not use it. Another half hour of clicking.....



You know that you are exaggerating, right? It will add a hour or more to the first turn, but after that I would wager that it adds no more than a few minutes per turn - only needing to be done when a unit is moved or newly arrived.



Yes, I know that I am exaggerating......

But I won't back off here. There are too many details to attend to as it is.


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Post #: 26
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 12/1/2010 8:50:29 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

It is a marvelous game but the time needed to play it is twice that of WITP due to a thousand more clicks needed. I find that trying to play two campaigns is almost impossible.

It is like going to see a four hour movie. Might be a great movie but for god sakes who want to see a freaking four hour movie? Edit, edit, edit. Some time spent on the next patch should be devoted to streamlining the game. I know I speak like a heritic but it just has to be done. My wife just gets tired of calling me down for dinner over and over........


Ditoed.


I made a posting some weeks ago with some streamline/improvement ideas, but no one answered so I figured that I am a big minority here who wants less micromanagement.. Seems there is at least one more. Meanwhile I even have more ideas, but probably most rather want more clicks....

Btw/Edit: I don´t have the newest game version (guess mine is some months old) and I use only normal search, now that the allies have more search assets it seems they even detect something without arcs. It also seems that I am NOT affected by the Radar bug - when was this introduced ?? My fighters mostly scramble early enough for interception and also there is a message "detected by radar" or simmilar

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 12/1/2010 8:52:26 PM >

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 27
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 12/2/2010 1:14:34 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yes, I know but I got a hot game going against a good opponent. As said above, if it is there and it will give me a slight edge, I won't be able to not use it. Another half hour of clicking.....



You know that you are exaggerating, right? It will add a hour or more to the first turn, but after that I would wager that it adds no more than a few minutes per turn - only needing to be done when a unit is moved or newly arrived.



Yes, I know that I am exaggerating......

But I won't back off here. There are too many details to attend to as it is.




So your argument is that since you don't want to take advantage of hte extra detail, no one else should be allowed to do so?

That's what it boils down to if the search arcs are implemented as originally intended.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 28
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 12/2/2010 4:17:44 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Well, you reach a point of diminshing return. How many good gamers have passed up on AE-many after buying it, due to the massive complexity? The problem with the members of the forum (myself included) is that we are a pretty hard core group of players and tend to love all the detail. But is it really a good thing if the game is just too complex? Is there ever a game that is too complex? I think so. I have seen may in 45 years of wargaming. In fact, I owned many boardgames for years that I never got around to trying out. The greatest movies generally are great because they have great editing. The same hold true for any simulation. Yes, this game can be trimmed a bit and might be a better game for it.



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I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

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Post #: 29
RE: Search Arcs problem seems to still be flawd (bugg) ... - 12/2/2010 7:48:26 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I can understand your point. It's just that search arcs was one of the extra details added to AE that I really enjoy. It's much more fun to setup search arcs (and verify that you have the right coverage by hitting the "z" key) than it is to train pilots. Both of these are an aspect of a level of detail that the theatre commander would not be bothering with, and so are extra work that really didn't need to be in there. However, the consequences of having search arcs in the game and not using them are far less devastating than having pilot training in the game and not using it.

To each his own... my hopes are that they will be fixed.


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fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 30
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