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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds 1 Series >> Tech Support >> Odd CTD

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Odd CTD - 11/26/2010 11:15:57 AM

Kadrush

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/11/2010
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Hy, i would like some help to solve this repeatable, late game CTD. v1.6

< Message edited by Kadrush -- 11/26/2010 11:17:05 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Odd CTD - 11/26/2010 6:16:22 PM

Snowpeople1

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/24/2010
Status: offline

I've been getting GxHab and GxBo errors every time I use the editor, would this apply to this situation aswell?

Trying to chase down tech support is a bit like getting milk from snake

~Snowman

(in reply to Kadrush)

Post #: 2

RE: Odd CTD - 11/26/2010 9:30:28 PM

Igard

Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline

Erik said something recently about contacting the helpdesk with any serious problems. Not sure how you do that, it's probably one of those buttons up the top right.

I'd also make sure that these error messages are really game-stopping. Sometimes I've found that the game continues to run if you simply move the error message to the bottom of the screen.

_____________________________

The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

(in reply to Snowpeople1)

Post #: 3

RE: Odd CTD - 11/26/2010 11:11:38 PM

Kadrush

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/11/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

Erik said something recently about contacting the helpdesk with any serious problems. Not sure how you do that, it's probably one of those buttons up the top right.

I'd also make sure that these error messages are really game-stopping. Sometimes I've found that the game continues to run if you simply move the error message to the bottom of the screen.

I had non-stopping errors before, but this one is game crashing, cant even ctrl+s. I am a bit afraid of starting a new game, as I always have this mistake at late game

(in reply to Igard)

Post #: 4

RE: Odd CTD - 11/27/2010 3:18:20 AM

Snowpeople1

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/24/2010
Status: offline

Yea I tried the support option but if you click through to the bug reporting link it leads you on a bit of a circle never actually taking you to a "help desk".

I have spent the better part of the last two weeks trying to get a solid game rolling but no luck, something inevitably seems to go amiss at some point in my games, also, the game having error pop-ups that you can "hide" isn't all that encouraging as far as over all stability goes.
What exactly are the side effects of just ignoring some of those pop up errors that don't directly crash your game?

The game editor seems to be the biggest culprit for causing headaches, for me atleast, if I just play the maps that the computer offers up without tweaking anything then the critical errors seem to be at a minimum, though still present.

Seems to me this game required another patch or two before they moved onto an expansion, I have serious reservations that adding more complexity to a game that is already struggling with stability issues still (after a half dozen patches or so) isn't going to smooth things out, and to add a little to that, if the expansion does indeed end up fixing the base game, then I have a bit of a problem paying to fix the game.
I purchased this game upon release, knowing full well it was probably going to need a few patches to clear up some of the initial release warts, because I want to support developers making the types of games I like to play and know full well that the first couple of months of sales can make or break a title, so I extend my good faith into the development team and quietly wait for them to get caught up. That good faith only reaches so far and I will think long and hard before I purchase the expansion blindly, hoping that the developers fix whatever seems to be causing the issues.

With games like Star Ruler (which the support for is just astonishing) and SOTS (Also another well supported title) just a double click away, I must admit, my ability to stomach another game that has hours invested in it to go up in smoke...again.

Just for the record, my system specs are as follows.
i5 cpu @ 3.2ghz (4 cores)
8 gigs of ram
Win7 64bit
ATI Radeon HD 4800 series (1g)

Updated drivers to the latest (10.11) site link http://sites.amd.com/us/game/downloads/Pages/radeon_win7-64.aspx
Latest version of .net (I even reverted back to the .net that comes with the DW installer)
My realtek HD audio is also up to date with the latest driver packages available (non beta)
And lastly my windows media player is up to date aswell according to the MS site.

So I am at a loss at this point as to what I can do on my end to make this game run in a stable fashion, it's in the developers court at this point and they seem a little disinterested in tech support for the game at the moment, so I will probably move on aswell and check back every once in awhile to see if anything has changed...

(in reply to Kadrush)

Post #: 5

RE: Odd CTD - 11/27/2010 4:38:14 AM

Igard

Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Snowpeople1

What exactly are the side effects of just ignoring some of those pop up errors that don't directly crash your game?

The dozen or so times I've had it happen to me have had no side effects that I could see. I could save and continue no problem.

Just be patient guys. I know it can be annoying when people say that, but in this case the developers are a small team taking on a big job and they're almost finished. I'm pretty sure we'll have the expansion within the next 3 weeks (just my guess) and once that's released, all those bugs should get sorted (as well as the new ones that the expansion will probably turn up).

Belive me when I say, there were practically no bug reports before they started working on the expansion, so it seems kind of unfortunate you guys are getting these problems at this time.

Sorry if I'm rambling, it's pretty late/early where I am.

_____________________________

The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

(in reply to Snowpeople1)

Post #: 6

RE: Odd CTD - 11/28/2010 8:39:25 AM

Snowpeople1

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/24/2010
Status: offline

After yet another hard crash, my patience has ran its course, I'll be shelving Distant Worlds for the time being and see what transpires over the coming weeks/months.

You say that bug reports had nearly ceased to be reported, I'd be willing to put forth the notion that people just got fed up with the same bugs that keep being reported that just never seemed to get fixed or answered, and moved on. Well I certainly can't say that is the case, I suspect it is, strongly.

As I said, the culprit seems to be a very faulty and buggy Editor. It'd probably be in the best interest of the developers to either fix it or remove it as most people want to tinker with things...which inevitably leads to a crash that one can not get beyond, effectively ending that game.

Anyways, I'll check back in a few months and see how the expansion pack might improve or even fix things, but I will say, I don't have high hopes.

~Snowpeople

(in reply to Igard)

Post #: 7

RE: Odd CTD - 11/28/2010 1:04:52 PM

Kadrush

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/11/2010
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Got another one

I have a theory, on both CTD the window mention a new empire Bolean, so I am going to guess that it is a bug with empire autocreation beyond 19 empires. Going to try a new game unchecking the box for allow independents to start new empires.

(in reply to Snowpeople1)

Post #: 8

RE: Odd CTD - 11/30/2010 10:45:39 PM

Sigh

Posts: 74
Joined: 4/12/2010
Status: offline

haaaahahaha this is still going on.

I read something about an expansion? If this is true I'm gonna **** my pants. Way to squeeze some more money out of your (ex- in this case) customers. Releasing an expansion before your terrible SIXTY DOLLAR game even manages to run without crashing. Hilarious.

I cant wait to see the expansion fix a crash or two. Then seeing Matrix (and a couple of fanboys) act like it's proof of good customer support. What a joke of a company.

quote:

Erik said something recently about contacting the helpdesk with any serious problems. Not sure how you do that, it's probably one of those buttons up the top right.

looooool. Yeah it doesnt look to good when the forum is full of crash reports. But please give me something to laugh about and explain the other (false) reason. Actually don't because I don't even read your bull explanations anymore

TERRIBLE company and I will make sure to keep any friends form ever buying a game from it again

(in reply to Kadrush)

Post #: 9

RE: Odd CTD - 11/30/2010 11:42:39 PM

Igard

Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sigh

haaaahahaha this is still going on.

I read something about an expansion? If this is true I'm gonna **** my pants. Way to squeeze some more money out of your (ex- in this case) customers. Releasing an expansion before your terrible SIXTY DOLLAR game even manages to run without crashing. Hilarious.

I cant wait to see the expansion fix a crash or two. Then seeing Matrix (and a couple of fanboys) act like it's proof of good customer support. What a joke of a company.

quote:

Erik said something recently about contacting the helpdesk with any serious problems. Not sure how you do that, it's probably one of those buttons up the top right.

looooool. Yeah it doesnt look to good when the forum is full of crash reports. But please give me something to laugh about and explain the other (false) reason. Actually don't because I don't even read your bull explanations anymore

TERRIBLE company and I will make sure to keep any friends form ever buying a game from it again

Sounds like you're very disgruntled Sigh, although being rude won't get you any sympathy from me. I've been vocal on the lack of official presense on these boards a few times, but never resorted to that sort of attitude.

The fact is, these crash reports seemed to have ceased prior to the expansion being announced, so it really is a shame so many are having problems at a time when the entire development team are commited to the expansion. It's a small team so they're really spread a bit thin at the moment. As I've said, I voiced my opinion on this before and don't think it's ideal.

I always enjoyed DW even when I was getting bugs popping up all the time, because it's a greatly enjoyable game. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way, but I've never bought a game that I can't return unless I'm absolutely sure it's my cup of tea.

_____________________________

The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

(in reply to Sigh)

Post #: 10

RE: Odd CTD - 12/1/2010 1:48:30 AM

Kadrush

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/11/2010
Status: offline

I agree with Igard

This game is great, like few others I played before (which includes SE4, SE5, MOO3, SOS). In a matter of fact, it is more complete, with the civilian economy. Personally I never wanted fancy graphics in my games, I easily got lost on the full 3d environment of SOS or any other 3d game. I tend to valorize complexity with graphic simplicity.

This game mix MOO3 with Star Sonata, Star Rangers and a few other games and creates a very nice combination. Altough the AI is weak, not as weak as other games, it is blame of the current status of the artificial inteligence itself, as it still follows codes and reacts to player decision, being predictable. Therefore, weak AI is not fault of the game programmers.

For the bugs, this a game so complex that cant even be played multiplayer, which seems obvious as your internet connection would be forced to realtime update the status and positions of thousands of objects, which is impossible. Also bugs come of the game variables, code X pratical applications X player system / configuration X game configuration X stress situation (late game). There is no way to calculate all that, maybe the game even runs smoothly on their computers, or they simply didnt tested it on certaim configurations, which causes bugs.

As example, I suspect that "independent planets can create new empires" causes a CTD on late game (still testing it), which they probably didnt tested on my specific game configurations.

Also, in any game, is almost impossible to predict and calculate every bug without a beta, and even with a beta is not possible and not profitable, so the game is released with bugs, which is normal and solved with patchs.

Oh yeah patchs, the devs of this game released a lot of them and adressed for many issues. As example, again, the devs of Supreme Ruler 2010 and 2020 completely neglected the game and after few patchs they didnt aswered some serious problens, making the game unplayable. Thats doesnt happens on this game, after all I am still playing it after a month which is quite unusual since I tend to get used to my games quite fast, and by new ones (Lost Empires Imortals lasted 2 weeks on my PC, horrible game).

Their only serious mistake is the lack of marketing for this game, as I accidentaly discovered it on a post in a game forum and not on a magazine or a gaming website.

Thats just my crappy, bad english, 2 cents.

(in reply to Igard)

Post #: 11

RE: Odd CTD - 12/2/2010 8:02:44 PM

Snowpeople1

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/24/2010
Status: offline

Alright, just because I am one of those people that get highly annoyed when I can't solve problems when I know the problems can be logically worked out in some rudimentary form or another, I have continued messing around with this game and its editor.

While I certainly cant decipher the actual game errors, there are limitations as to what info can be gleaned through basic trial and error testing...

First and foremost, Kadrush, Boolean is not an independent race trying to create an empire, it's mathematics - link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean
Though major kudos to you I give for atleast making the attempt to figure out what is wrong.

First I needed a solid baseline in which to test, so I did a fresh re-install of the game and its patch, yes folders and save game folders all ferreted out and deleted.
Then i rechecked that I had all the pertinent updates on my computer, .net, video card drivers, sound card drivers, WMP 11/12, ect.

Ok so with all of that out of the way knowing full well that my machine was beefy enough and up to date with current standards I began my testing in earnst.
Oh and for testing purposes no mods of any kind.

So my first game was a very generic 250 system game fully automated that I let run until midish game, zero problems, not a one, well other than some slow downs and some ships just sorta vanishing into a nether world of the galactic triangle...lol

I then decided to run a second game, same settings to ensure the data was similar, in which it was.

This much I suspected...the vanilla game is pretty stable with only minor irritants to deal with.

Now I decided to "tweak" a few things in the editor for the next game, some of the editing I did was adding a handful of various planets, 2 of each type to randomly chosen star systems, also added a few independent colonies, some basic ships , a few gas clouds and some ruins. I also added moons to a few planets both created planets and already existing planets and adjusted various sizes.

I again let the game run until mid game and once again the game remained quite stable giving me no game stopping anomalies.

Ok, new game again, only this time lets just delete some objects.
I removed a couple of stars. I made sure the stars contained no planets so I wouldn't have more than one thing to trouble shoot.

Lo and behold...a crash error...
Ok reload to before I removed anything, ran the same game, no errors, ran well.

Ok reload and delete some other stuff, this time I removed a couple of planets, empty planets, and guess what? Yep, another hard crash.

hmmm

Ok what if I added some star systems?
Crash.

So while I could definitely do more testing to validate some of the different crash environments, I was satisfied with my very primitive results and I have other stuff I like to do besides chase down bugs in a video game.

All in all, what I found in my simplistic form of bug hunting was that the editor is indeed buggy as hell but only seemingly in certain regards.
I could add a variety of things via the editor, planets, colonies, ships, moons, ruins, ect and everything played nicely with one another.

If I added a star or star system, the game would eventually implode.
If I deleted a star, same result.

Now the interesting thing is that I could add and delete my own created planets to my hearts content, didn't like that no resource desert planet you just placed? no problem, delete it!
Removing a computer generated planet though seemed to be hit and miss, sometimes it would cause me an error sometimes it would run just fine (though that is not to say that it might not be a root cause of a crash later down the line)

I think people reading this will get the idea on the direction of what would cause errors and what wouldn't.

I will, however, do a brief summary though...keeping in mind this was not by any means a "professional" bug hunting trip.

OK to add with editor -

Planets
Ships
Colonies
Independent colonies
Gas clouds
Ruins
Moons
Asteroids
Pirates
Space creatures
Asteroids

------------------------

Things I am unsure about -
New Empires
Black Holes/ novas (though I suspect they will crash your game )

-----------------------------

Things that WILL crash your game -

Adding/deleting Stars/star systems
Deleting a computer generated planet (though more testing seems needed here)
Deleting a computer generated empire or independent colony
Deleting a pirate base/pirates
Deleting monsters
Deleting any of the anomolies (the various space junkyards and what not)
Basically do not delete any of the computer generated items that get created with your galaxy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I certainly hope this helps a few people and also helps the developers in future patches as to what may be causing the editor to not function properly.

In closing I will say that the game is a great game and is still moderately "tweakable" if one follows those guidelines listed above, even if it does limit how much one can tailor there galaxy to there own likings.
Your own mileage may vary with further testing but I think it atleast gives people a baseline to work from and a bit of an understanding of what is causing the issues.

If one really wants a game with as little risk of corruption as possible I recommend not using the editor at all as the games I experimented with that had no editor use what so ever were by far the most stable.

Happy hunting gentlemen/and ladies!

~Snowman

(in reply to Kadrush)

Post #: 12

RE: Odd CTD - 12/2/2010 8:48:39 PM

Snowpeople1

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/24/2010
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Wonder If I should put the above post onto its own thread for easier viewing?

(in reply to Snowpeople1)

Post #: 13

RE: Odd CTD - 12/2/2010 9:05:41 PM

Igard

Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline

Nice work, Snowman. I think you should make a new thread for this as it seems alot of people have problems with the editor and this might help them make sense of things.

_____________________________

The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

(in reply to Snowpeople1)

Post #: 14

RE: Odd CTD - 12/4/2010 10:47:47 AM

Kadrush

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/11/2010
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Yeah, nice work snowman.

As for the Boolean...thanks...I hate maths....

Anyway, did you tried to remove or add empires using the editor (last one above the limit of 19 empires), I am quite sure that this causes a CTD as well. Please take a look at the text of my first screenshot of this topic.

(in reply to Igard)

Post #: 15

RE: Odd CTD - 12/4/2010 12:51:53 PM

Snowpeople1

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/24/2010
Status: offline

@Kadrush

From my testing I only used a 250 star galaxy which has a 14 empire limite I believe? pretty sure that's what it is.
I was able to add empires without issue along with independents, but deleting either of those if they were computer generated would cause a crash.

I never tested adding more empires past the 19 starting empires on a 1400 star galaxy but I will give that a shot over the weekend here as I am still bug hunting casually with the editor, I'll post up any new results I get in the thread I made dedicated to this bug hunting trip.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2637868&mpage=1&key=&#2637868

Just to reiterate once again, deleting anything that was generated during your game start up made by the computer has a very high probability of crashing the game, including empires.

~Snowman

(in reply to Kadrush)

Post #: 16

RE: Odd CTD - 12/4/2010 3:14:45 PM

Snowpeople1

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/24/2010
Status: offline

Quoting Igard:

(The fact is, these crash reports seemed to have ceased prior to the expansion being announced, so it really is a shame so many are having problems at a time when the entire development team are commited to the expansion. It's a small team so they're really spread a bit thin at the moment. As I've said, I voiced my opinion on this before and don't think it's ideal.)

I think Igard that why there is more bug reporting now as opposed to before is patch 1.0.6 brought more people back to try the game again (This would include me) also the announcement of an expansion would generate some rekindled and new interest in the game aswell.

I took the time to read back through the pages of the tech forum and definitely seen a pattern of the same issues being posted about on variously named threads but all usually with the same basic issues, many of the posts just fell on deaf ears and the select few that were answered (and I mean by actual devs not helpful players) were usually replies of...this will be fixed in the next patch... only to discover that a few pages later and a few patches later that people were still posting about the same problems...again with very limited feedback.

I know the development team is busy, but I find that a poor excuse and one that I just won't buy into as acceptable, I'm busy too in my own work but still manage to find or make the time to take care of the tasks that I dislike, it's just part of the landscape of owning you're own small business, you have to do more, with less.

~Snowman

(in reply to Snowpeople1)

Post #: 17

RE: Odd CTD - 12/4/2010 3:33:33 PM

Igard

Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Snowpeople1

Quoting Igard:

(The fact is, these crash reports seemed to have ceased prior to the expansion being announced, so it really is a shame so many are having problems at a time when the entire development team are commited to the expansion. It's a small team so they're really spread a bit thin at the moment. As I've said, I voiced my opinion on this before and don't think it's ideal.)

I think Igard that why there is more bug reporting now as opposed to before is patch 1.0.6 brought more people back to try the game again (This would include me) also the announcement of an expansion would generate some rekindled and new interest in the game aswell.

I took the time to read back through the pages of the tech forum and definitely seen a pattern of� the same issues being posted about on variously named threads but all usually with the same basic issues, many of the posts just fell on deaf ears and the select few that were answered (and I mean by actual devs not helpful players) were usually replies of...this will be fixed in the next patch... only to discover that a few pages later and a few patches later that people were still posting about the same problems...again with very limited feedback.

I know the development team is busy, but I find that a poor excuse and one that I just won't buy into as acceptable, I'm busy too in my own work but still manage to find or make the time to take care of the tasks that I dislike, it's just part of the landscape of owning you're own small business, you have to do more, with less.

~Snowman

I think you're correct about players returning for the 1.06 patch and that's why there's so many bug reports now.

I don't know if these recent bugs are the same ones that were reportedly fixed in the patches. I just assumed that they were different bugs only producing a similar error. I'm not sure.

I think the problem we have here is a company that is trying to release the expansion before christmas and devoting all their resources to that end. I can't help but feel concerned and a little bit worried. I'd rather see the developers actively helping on the tech support and wait another month or 2 for the release of the expansion.

_____________________________

The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

(in reply to Snowpeople1)

Post #: 18

RE: Odd CTD - 12/4/2010 4:28:56 PM

Snowpeople1

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/24/2010
Status: offline

Well I will grant you about the possibilities of those being all new errors, but with generic error feedback via the error pop-ups stating that it is yet another GxBo or another GxHab or yet another outofrange error how is one to know? Perhaps oh I dunno, possibly some developer feedback maybe? So all we can do as the casual customer is see that GxBo, GxHab, and outofrange errors still abound and just assume the same issues still plague the game from version 1.0, as a developer I'd definitely want to make sure that it was apparent that is not the case, only one way to do that and that is to talk with your customers, and I mean meaningful interactions not one sided sticky posts or only come out of the woodwork to promote the latest patch or expansion.

We both seem to be in agreement that the tech support (probably the single most important forum for any game/software product) is woefully neglected. I myself won't let them off the hook quite so easily, It's there responsibility to ensure customers are looked after...especially as a very small company, crappy customer service is usually reserved for much larger companies with the automated no help call centers or form letters.

One of the strengths of a small company (called "indie" in the software world) is one usually gets much better support than dealing with the larger faceless corporate giants, It's just one of the tangible benefits that a small company can offer its customer base that the big guys just can not compete with, and it amazes me when advantages are not thoroughly exploited...but it's there business model to apply as they like.
Though it is, in my opinion, as a small business own myself with 12 years of successful experience, an advantage that absolutely should be capitalized on, and ignored at ones own peril.

These forums just are not busy enough to think that one of the developers cant take a couple hours each week to rummage through and answer some questions or have a knowledgeable liason do that for them, there are several viable answers to the problem if the will is there to address it, being to busy to deal with the people that allow you to have a business in the first place seems a perilous attitude to have.

~Snowman

(in reply to Igard)

Post #: 19

RE: Odd CTD - 12/4/2010 6:50:52 PM

Kadrush

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/11/2010
Status: offline

Is there a post or website were I can read something about the game expansion (not the "expansion" video)? I would realy to take a look at those new features they are setting for us.

(in reply to Snowpeople1)

Post #: 20

RE: Odd CTD - 12/9/2010 7:56:25 PM

GJ Selby

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Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline

(in reply to Igard)

Post #: 21

RE: Odd CTD - 12/9/2010 8:57:41 PM

Igard

Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline

I disagree. I think customers who are unhappy with the way they've been treated should not stoop to such low levels. They should instead pursue a course of action that either resolves the situation or brings those who have failed them to account for their errors (take your complaint to a higher level). Acting rude and disrespectful to me when all I am doing is trying to help should not be seen as righteous in any way. It certainly doesn't win them any favours.

I've worked in retail before and I know that the customers who get angry win no sympathy with Managers and Directors, but those who conduct themselves calmly and express their dissapointment in a clear and dignified manner will get what they want much quicker than someone who immediately paints themselves in a negative manner.

_____________________________

The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

(in reply to GJ Selby)

Post #: 22

RE: Odd CTD - 12/9/2010 11:45:12 PM

Kadrush

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/11/2010
Status: offline

Saddly AI in DW is not moddable....that would solve many complains of unhappy players

(in reply to Igard)

Post #: 23