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AT Gold Suggestions - 10/6/2010 12:00:15 AM

Zaratoughda

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From: NE Pa, USA
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Just starting a new thread here with the announcement of the upcoming AT Gold.

First, the thing that sticks out on first pass on AT as it is now is there needs to be multilple levels of resolution. I believe DB:FWTP has multiple levels of resolution (haven't had the time to pick that one up yet) so can we get that in ATG?

Next, some can ask for other terrain types and that is fine but, IMO there is natural terrain and then there is man-made terrain, and the game is pretty good on natural terain but could be better on man-made terrain. Ug, would like better looking city graphics but the main thing is there should be dense urban, urban, suburban and rural/farmland. As things stand now randomly generated games end up looking like natural terrain with some cities here and there. Would also be nice to be able to have towns in hexes which otherwise have some other kind of terrain.

The next item, we've mentioned this before and someone independantly mentioned this in another thread.... TOE. In random games what units end up with gets to be almost comlpetely random and that is pretty unhistorical. So, would be nice to let designers define TOE and have players populate units to that. Could use PP to go above TOE if desired.

The other thing... improved AI. Right now in AHRS_500AD I give the AI 2x production and countries each with multiple cities while I just start with my home city and, typically I still kick their butt. Even if they have twice the force I have when it comes to using it, they are 'dum dums'.

Oh, you mentioned natural resources and I was thinking of adding food resource, coal, oil and iron and these things would be neat in a randomly generated game. Amount of oil and iron would affect things like how much armored force you created as opposed to how much infantry. Manpower could be another resource.

Zaratoughda

Post #: 1

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/6/2010 10:23:29 AM

Vic

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Hi Zaratoughda!

quote:

First, the thing that sticks out on first pass on AT as it is now is there
needs to be multilple levels of resolution. I believe DB:FWTP has multiple levels of resolution (haven't had the time to pick that one up yet) so can we get that in ATG?

yes 3 zoom modes will be supported.

quote:

Next, some can ask for other terrain types and that is fine but, IMO there is natural terrain and then there is man-made terrain, and the game is pretty good on natural terain but could be better on man-made terrain. Ug, would like better looking city graphics but the main thing is there should be dense urban, urban, suburban and rural/farmland. As things stand now randomly generated games end up looking like natural terrain with some cities here and there. Would also be nice to be able to have towns in hexes which otherwise have some other kind of terrain.

Yes suburban and farmland are included for exactly your suggested reasons.

quote:

The next item, we've mentioned this before and someone independantly mentioned this in another thread.... TOE. In random games what units end up with gets to be almost comlpetely random and that is pretty unhistorical. So, would be nice to let designers define TOE and have players populate units to that. Could use PP to go above TOE if desired.

Sorry this is not included.

quote:

The other thing... improved AI. Right now in AHRS_500AD I give the AI 2x production and countries each with multiple cities while I just start with my home city and, typically I still kick their butt. Even if they have twice the force I have when it comes to using it, they are 'dum dums'.

I only made speed changes to the AI.

quote:

Oh, you mentioned natural resources and I was thinking of adding food resource, coal, oil and iron and these things would be neat in a randomly generated game. Amount of oil and iron would affect things like how much armored force you created as opposed to how much infantry. Manpower could be another resource.

Zaratoughda

The editor will allow you to do stuff like that. But the new random games will come with only two resources: oil (movement) and raw (production).

Best regards,
Vic

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Post #: 2

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/6/2010 11:50:10 AM

JMass

Posts: 2364
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

quote:

First, the thing that sticks out on first pass on AT as it is now is there
needs to be multilple levels of resolution. I believe DB:FWTP has multiple levels of resolution (haven't had the time to pick that one up yet) so can we get that in ATG?

yes 3 zoom modes will be supported.

Which other DB:FWTP features will include?

< Message edited by JMass -- 10/6/2010 1:03:34 PM >

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Post #: 3

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/7/2010 12:34:19 AM

rich12545

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

I only made speed changes to the AI.

Best regards,
Vic

Crap, it looks like the AI still won't be able to use aircraft carriers or airborne.

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Post #: 4

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/7/2010 4:30:37 AM

TPM

Posts: 349
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Vic -

In another thread I had a wishlist for unit creation and reinforcement...basically I was asking if there could be a way to automate unit creation, maybe setting a template for an infantry division and reinforcing with one click...something to take away the tedious clicking on hundreds of units to get them back up to strength.

In AT Gold, are there any tweaks to production and unit creation/reinforcements, etc.? Thanks again!

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Post #: 5

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/7/2010 10:32:44 AM

Vic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TPM

Vic -

In another thread I had a wishlist for unit creation and reinforcement...basically I was asking if there could be a way to automate unit creation, maybe setting a template for an infantry division and reinforcing with one click...something to take away the tedious clicking on hundreds of units to get them back up to strength.

In AT Gold, are there any tweaks to production and unit creation/reinforcements, etc.? Thanks again!

You could design a scenario with the editor that uses actioncards to accomplish this. But you could do that in AT too. So no... not standard functionality no.

There is an enormous list of things i want to see added to the engine one day. And i chose Alliances, Batte Rules and Resources as key topics for the upgrade.

best,
vic

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Post #: 6

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/7/2010 2:31:43 PM

Bombur

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The amphibious attacks...is that possible to fix the all or nothing disembark results in which all troops are lost if they fail to take the location???

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Post #: 7

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/7/2010 3:50:13 PM

GrumpyMel

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Will there be any changes to the editor?

Would love to see any of the below..

- A multi-line copy and paste for event code.
- Support for And/Or with checks
- a Not Equals operator

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Post #: 8

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/7/2010 9:23:01 PM

Jeffrey H.

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From: San Diego, Ca.
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I gotta say, the AI speed was never an issue for me. It's nice to know it will take less time but I'd much rather have the types of improvements I've suggested in other threads on the subject.

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Post #: 9

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/8/2010 3:24:05 AM

Zaratoughda

Posts: 714
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From: NE Pa, USA
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As far as TOE is concerned, what I would like to ask... is this something you are against for ATG or is it just a matter of priorities?

As time has gone along, I have gotten more and more of an appreciation for TOE. From Roman times to the present there have been the designs of what units whould include, and without this units just ended up being mobs or hordes (which you would get with the more barbaric nations). Unfortunately, in random games in AT this is what you end up with.

So, getting TOE would put ATG a head above other wargames of this genre. Empire didn't have anything like this (but, that was way simple) and I do not know of any other games with random game generators that have something like this (actually, not sure I know of any other games with random game generators along the lines of AT... maybe Empire Deluxe if that is still out there).

As far as the AI is concerned, didn't you say that you rewrote it at some point, or was that rewrite just for DC:FWTP?

Thanks,

Zaratoughda

< Message edited by Zaratoughda -- 10/8/2010 5:38:16 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/8/2010 6:02:03 AM

TPM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

I gotta say, the AI speed was never an issue for me. It's nice to know it will take less time but I'd much rather have the types of improvements I've suggested in other threads on the subject.

I second this...never had a problem with AI speed....

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Post #: 11

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/8/2010 6:29:17 AM

SMK-at-work

Posts: 3396
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From: New Zealand
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quote:

There is an enormous list of things i want to see added to the engine one day. And i chose Alliances, Batte Rules and Resources as key topics for the upgrade.

Fair enough as far as resources permit!! ;)

However the ability to make "proper" units would have been right up there with alliances IMO - and above the other 2....but obviously this is a democracy - one man, one vote, and Vic is that man with that vote!! ;)

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Post #: 12

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/8/2010 9:07:04 AM

borsook79

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Will there be a better support for campaigns?

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Post #: 13

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/9/2010 2:43:05 AM

jreid

Posts: 100
Joined: 10/27/2007
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I have a UI suggestion: a button (and/or hotekey) to show/hide the unit detail at the bottom of the screen so more of the map can be visible when desired.

Also, unit counters with the vital attributes (action points, morale, etc.) similar to the counters in Decisive Campaigns. I really like those :)

Basically, carry over the UI elements (stacking points in the top display, etc. - maybe more numbers displayed in the thin top display when a unit is selected) from Decisive Campaigns.

thanks

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Post #: 14

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/9/2010 2:54:44 PM

CSO_Talorgan

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Does Decisive Campaigns distinguish day from night?

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Post #: 15

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/9/2010 11:18:09 PM

borsook79

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CSO_Talorgan

Does Decisive Campaigns distinguish day from night?

Considering turn length why should it? plus, maybe this should be asked in DC not AT forum.

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Post #: 16

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 10/10/2010 1:22:59 AM

lancer

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G'day Vic,

Will the excellent graphical overhaul - map and UI - developed for Decisive Campaigns be ported over to AT Gold?

Cheers,
Lancer

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Post #: 17

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 11/30/2010 10:37:23 PM

CSO_Talorgan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Borsook

maybe this should be asked in DC not AT forum.

Fair enough

quote:

ORIGINAL: Borsook

Considering turn length why should it?

At the moment the inability to distinguish day from night limits this wargame construction kit. It sets a lower limit on scale.

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Post #: 18

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 12/1/2010 12:00:26 AM

ehzorg

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I would think day/night could be modeled with the same mechanics used for seasons if you wanted. However, I'm not sure if you could do both Day/Night and seasons - it may not be capable of tracking two distinct periods at the same time like that.

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Post #: 19

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 12/1/2010 11:05:59 PM

CSO_Talorgan

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I know. That's the trouble.

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Post #: 20

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 12/2/2010 11:55:59 AM

Grymme

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I guess you could do

Summerday
Summernight
Autumnday
Autumnnight
Winterday
Winternight
Springday
Springnight.

But i think the main issue is that AT cannot do everything. When you come down to the scale where you are talking about hours you should also start talking about issues like line of sight etc and the engine is just not constructed for that. And it shouldnt be (despite the name) IMO. Maybe those are things that could come in the sequal "Advanced Operations" LOL.

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Post #: 21

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 12/2/2010 11:56:00 AM

Grymme

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Edit: doublepost.

< Message edited by Grymme -- 12/2/2010 11:57:04 AM >

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Post #: 22

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 12/4/2010 9:08:42 AM

Lihnit23

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lancer

G'day Vic,

Will the excellent graphical overhaul - map and UI - developed for Decisive Campaigns be ported over to AT Gold?

Cheers,
Lancer

I actually like the graphics exactly as they are now. So at least have the present graphics set as an option.

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Post #: 23

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 12/5/2010 1:21:41 AM

Zaratoughda

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From: NE Pa, USA
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You could put together an event that handles day and night. I remember the V for Victory game on Normandy and they had 6 turns per day (could move or attack in a turn not BOTH) and 2 of the turns were night, 4 were day turns.

If you can handle putting together event code this should not be that difficult. Well, you would need to generate NIGHT terrain with the appropriate movement costs, etc. Also, if you wanted to do this with seasons then you would have to generate night terrain for each of the seasons. Yeah, I have seen scenarios where designers have done the effort to generate things like this.

I was also thinking of using events and a ptmaster file to force TOE. In other words, you would not generate units directly. Rather, production types would go into a pool and you would use action cards to reinforce the units under a HQ, or to create new units. The one thing that could not be done, unless Vic puts something in for this, would be to prohibit players from transferring types from one unit to another (another thing that would be nice, if it is not in there already, is have an action card that, when played, affects the currently SELECTED unit or HQ).

The one thing that you CANNOT handle with the editor is the AI. Well, there are all sorts of RuleVars on the AI but, at least from what I tried, didn't make it any smarter. Being that Vic is not going to upgrade the AI in ATG other than the speed (which was not a problem for me), maybe somewhere down the road he can upgrade it otherwise. Yeah, is not a small effort.

Zaratoughda

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Post #: 24

RE: AT Gold Suggestions - 12/12/2010 10:30:17 PM

CSO_Talorgan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grymme

When you come down to the scale where you are talking about hours you should also start talking about issues like line of sight etc and the engine is just not constructed for that. And it shouldnt be (despite the name) IMO.

I wholeheartedly agree. Line of sight is the floor through which Advanced Tactics cannot pass. However, up until now the game has had an artificial constraint, a "glass floor" if you will, in that the minimum turn the game could handle was 1 day.

... and yet in hilly, forested parts of the world where the weather is awful, being able to see very far is unusual. So you will understand the interest in pushing Advanced Tactic's "lower limit". You will understand an interest in 1 hour turns, 1 km hexes, and 1 man units?!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grymme

Summerday
Summernight
Autumnday
Autumnnight
Winterday
Winternight
Springday
Springnight.

Thanks Grymme! You just chucked a brick through the glass floor!

January Early morning
January Daylight
January Twilight
January Night
February Early morning
February Daylight
February Twilight
February Night
March Early morning
March Daylight
March Twilight
March Night
April Early morning
April Daylight
April Twilight
April Night
May Early morning
May Daylight
May Twilight
May Night
June Early morning
June Daylight
June Twilight
June Night (if such a thing exists)
July Early morning
July Daylight
July Twilight
July Night
August Early morning
August Daylight
August Twilight
August Night
September Early morning
September Daylight
September Twilight
September Night
October Early morning
October Daylight
October Twilight
October Night
November Early morning
November Daylight
November Twilight
November Night
December Early morning
December Daylight(if such a thing exists)
December Twilight
December Night

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Post #: 25