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OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 12:54:26 PM   
wdolson

 

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Post #: 1
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 1:47:46 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline 		I've been watching this slow-motion train wreck from close range. The average UK politician has no management experience or training in economics.

_____________________________

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"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 2
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 1:52:28 PM   
morganbj


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Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

I've been watching this slow-motion train wreck from close range. The average <deleted> politician has no management experience or training in economics, business, engineering, science, history, sociology, psychology, or anything else useful to society.

FIFY

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 3
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 2:19:13 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

Posts: 1265
Joined: 2/17/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

I've been watching this slow-motion train wreck from close range. The average <deleted> politician has no management experience or training in economics, business, engineering, science, history, sociology, psychology, or anything else useful to society.


Of course not..., they're politicians! Their job is to keep their butts planted firmly in their seats, their mouths full of meaningless babble, and their brains engaged in filling their pockets. You want meaningful thought and ideas, you came to the wrong place...

(in reply to morganbj)
Post #: 4
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 2:35:49 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

I've been watching this slow-motion train wreck from close range. The average <deleted> politician has no management experience or training in economics, business, engineering, science, history, sociology, psychology, or anything else useful to society.


Of course not..., they're politicians! Their job is to keep their butts planted firmly in their seats, their mouths full of meaningless babble, and their brains engaged in filling their pockets. You want meaningful thought and ideas, you came to the wrong place...



Watch "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister".

Here's the reasoning: in North America, every business major has to learn enough calculus to be able to understand economics. Only students taking an A-level in maths learn calculus in the UK. (A UK A-level in maths is intended to prepare you to be a mathematician or physicist!) Hence almost everyone in the UK is economically illiterate, especially politicians. That makes it hard for you to manage anything larger than a corner shop...

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to mike scholl 1)
Post #: 5
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 2:43:46 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

I've been watching this slow-motion train wreck from close range. The average <deleted> politician has no management experience or training in economics, business, engineering, science, history, sociology, psychology, or anything else useful to society.

FIFY



You left out the requirement of being a pathological liar...all politicians share this trait in common.

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(in reply to morganbj)
Post #: 6
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 3:13:41 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

I've been watching this slow-motion train wreck from close range. The average <deleted> politician has no management experience or training in economics, business, engineering, science, history, sociology, psychology, or anything else useful to society.


Of course not..., they're politicians! Their job is to keep their butts planted firmly in their seats, their mouths full of meaningless babble, and their brains engaged in filling their pockets. You want meaningful thought and ideas, you came to the wrong place...



Watch "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister".

Here's the reasoning: in North America, every business major has to learn enough calculus to be able to understand economics. Only students taking an A-level in maths learn calculus in the UK. (A UK A-level in maths is intended to prepare you to be a mathematician or physicist!) Hence almost everyone in the UK is economically illiterate, especially politicians. That makes it hard for you to manage anything larger than a corner shop...


I don't quite agree that high level mathematical knowledge is necessary to be economically literate. If you read Keynes's General Theory book you will see that he advised that readers who were put off by reading detailed formulas could just as easily skip the identified chapters and still be able to understand his thesis. Much depends on the quality of writing of an economist.

Of course, mathematics is absolutely indispensable to understanding econometrics but not every economist in the world places much value in econometric models.

Alfred

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 7
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 3:27:30 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

I've been watching this slow-motion train wreck from close range. The average <deleted> politician has no management experience or training in economics, business, engineering, science, history, sociology, psychology, or anything else useful to society.


Of course not..., they're politicians! Their job is to keep their butts planted firmly in their seats, their mouths full of meaningless babble, and their brains engaged in filling their pockets. You want meaningful thought and ideas, you came to the wrong place...



Watch "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister".

Here's the reasoning: in North America, every business major has to learn enough calculus to be able to understand economics. Only students taking an A-level in maths learn calculus in the UK. (A UK A-level in maths is intended to prepare you to be a mathematician or physicist!) Hence almost everyone in the UK is economically illiterate, especially politicians. That makes it hard for you to manage anything larger than a corner shop...


I don't quite agree that high level mathematical knowledge is necessary to be economically literate. If you read Keynes's General Theory book you will see that he advised that readers who were put off by reading detailed formulas could just as easily skip the identified chapters and still be able to understand his thesis. Much depends on the quality of writing of an economist.

Of course, mathematics is absolutely indispensable to understanding econometrics but not every economist in the world places much value in econometric models.

Alfred


Yes, but the UK educational system specialises very early. They only teach economics to students on an economics course, and that involves passing an A-level in math, which includes advanced calculus.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 8
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 3:41:20 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Herwin,

That is a shame to hear UK education system is so structured. I assume, for example, it would mean that in a history course, teaching about the ramifications of the Versailles Treaty (post WWI and factors leading to WWII) Keynes 1919 book on the damage to the German economy from the war reparations imposed by the Versailles Treaty, would not be included in the course.

Alfred

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 9
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 4:12:46 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
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From: Sunderland, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Herwin,

That is a shame to hear UK education system is so structured. I assume, for example, it would mean that in a history course, teaching about the ramifications of the Versailles Treaty (post WWI and factors leading to WWII) Keynes 1919 book on the damage to the German economy from the war reparations imposed by the Versailles Treaty, would not be included in the course.

Alfred


You would be much more likely to find it covered in an economics course, not a history course--course in the sense of degree, not class or module. I did a quick search ("site:ac.uk economic history keynes") and it looks like 70-80% of the potentially relevant classes are taught in economics departments, not history departments. And UK students very rarely take classes outside their home departments.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 10
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 4:21:30 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

I don't quite agree that high level mathematical knowledge is necessary to be economically literate. If you read Keynes's General Theory book you will see that he advised that readers who were put off by reading detailed formulas could just as easily skip the identified chapters and still be able to understand his thesis. Much depends on the quality of writing of an economist.

Of course, mathematics is absolutely indispensable to understanding econometrics but not every economist in the world places much value in econometric models.

Alfred


I agree with you , Alfred. I did not progress to calculus in high school. In college, I took the classic undergraduate survey, year-long micro-macro Econ course set, and added a course on Money & Banking for fun. What I learned in those three courses would be more than sufficient for an elected official to follow testimony at a heairng, judge taxation policies, and understand rudimentary monetary policy options. (I'd like the president to have a bit more, however.)

Later, I suffered through enough calculus to do well in my MBA program's economics courses, which included calculus-based elasticity theory. Advanced econometrics is not something business executives do on a daily basis. If they need that for the job they hire consultants with Ph.D.s. (Ditto multiple regression analyses, which MBA programs tend to beat into the ground. They aren't that useful in the real world of business management.)

Frankly, I think a politician who had spent his professional life studying advanced econometrics would be a very poor politician. The job requires generalists, one reason it attracts so many attorneys. Despite the public perception of them, most lawyers I have known are pretty well read in classic liberal arts types of areas, and can assimilate and integrate broad masses of new informaiton rapidly. That said, we do need a mix of engineers, doctors, and businesspeople in elected office, as well as some retired military.

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(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 11
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 4:29:26 PM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		Given Anatole Kaletsky in the Times is famously a disciple of Keynes, and given Kaletsky was equally famously wrong on just about every prognostication he has ever made - so much so that Private Eye started lampooning him for it - I wouldn't get too hung up on the ability of the dismal science to do us much good.

And besides, just about every leading UK politician these days does PPE from Oxford. The 'E' being economics.

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Post #: 12
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 4:30:51 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

And besides, just about every leading UK politician these days does PPE from Oxford. The 'E' being economics.


For us colonials, what does the "PP" stand for?

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Post #: 13
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 4:46:20 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

And besides, just about every leading UK politician these days does PPE from Oxford. The 'E' being economics.


For us colonials, what does the "PP" stand for?


That would be Preparation Points for Economics. You get 50 per day and it allows you to change from the Austrian to the Chicago School one you accumulate enough.

Alfred

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 14
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 5:42:35 PM   
Zebedee


Posts: 535
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

And besides, just about every leading UK politician these days does PPE from Oxford. The 'E' being economics.


For us colonials, what does the "PP" stand for?


The modern 'classics' - Politics, Philosophy and Economics.

Civilised people, of course, would rather read English than taint their arts and humanities with math ;)

Do disagree with Herwin over economic literacy - the US system is hardly one to aspire to XD

< Message edited by Zebedee -- 12/3/2010 5:43:59 PM >

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 15
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 6:05:05 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zebedee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

And besides, just about every leading UK politician these days does PPE from Oxford. The 'E' being economics.


For us colonials, what does the "PP" stand for?


The modern 'classics' - Politics, Philosophy and Economics.

Civilised people, of course, would rather read English than taint their arts and humanities with math ;)

Do disagree with Herwin over economic literacy - the US system is hardly one to aspire to XD


We had a number of American students over for Thanksgiving dinner, and this came up. They were comparing their experience of a UK university with their programs back home, and the marked numerical illiteracy of UK students was commented on.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Zebedee)
Post #: 16
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 6:42:42 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin
We had a number of American students over for Thanksgiving dinner, and this came up. They were comparing their experience of a UK university with their programs back home, and the marked numerical illiteracy of UK students was commented on.

I realize this whole thread is OT, but you probably had the only 3 American students with a realistic education. for your dinner party.

My dear fellow, the whole idea of a scientific education is being supressed in every progressive country in the Western world. 40 years ago, I went to MIT looking for entry, and was told I should apply to one of the 'feeder' colleges; Smith, Bates, Bowdoin, Brown, Dartmouth, Amherst, etc. because, even then, courses at the Tute were taught by non-English speaking assistants.

That was 40 years ago; feed forward.

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(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 17
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 6:46:24 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


That would be Preparation Points for Economics. You get 50 per day and it allows you to change from the Austrian to the Chicago School one you accumulate enough.

Alfred


Unless you waste them on hiring professors with higher Naval skills.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 12/3/2010 6:59:01 PM >

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The Moose

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Post #: 18
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 6:52:01 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zebedee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

And besides, just about every leading UK politician these days does PPE from Oxford. The 'E' being economics.


For us colonials, what does the "PP" stand for?


The modern 'classics' - Politics, Philosophy and Economics.

Civilised people, of course, would rather read English than taint their arts and humanities with math ;)

Do disagree with Herwin over economic literacy - the US system is hardly one to aspire to XD


How can one study politics and/or philosophy without literature? Most of the history courses I took in college had at least one novel from the period/region. No other way I was going to read "Heart of a Dog."

The level of economic literacy in the US generally is pretty low, although Americans have a pretty good deckplate understanding of capitalism's daily operations. I thought Herwin was bewailing the UK's schlerotic higher-educaiton system. Based on what he describes I would say the US system is superior, albeit more chaotic. If a student wants to study economics, they study economics. Or anything else. I majored in history, but I had over 20 semester hours of art history, and about the same in business and computer courses. (My university didn't allow minors.)

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 12/3/2010 6:59:52 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 6:58:14 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

We had a number of American students over for Thanksgiving dinner, and this came up. They were comparing their experience of a UK university with their programs back home, and the marked numerical illiteracy of UK students was commented on.


The level of math learning among US elite students, such as those who study abroad, is very good, far better than it was in my days in high school in the 70s. Advanced Placement Calculus, even differential equations, is taught in most of the better high schools today. In contrast, my HS had one section of 12th grade basic calculus, and to get there one had to be properly tracked in 8th grade. I wasn't.

However, the average level of math ability in the general student population, as measured by standardized tests, is pretty bad. Something like 20th now on a world industrialized scale. Many of our teens are not prepared to take up even blue collar jobs like carpentry which require a pretty high level of ability to do geometry, estimate job materials and costs, and perform simple bookkeeping.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 12/3/2010 7:00:37 PM >

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Post #: 20
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 6:58:22 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zebedee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

And besides, just about every leading UK politician these days does PPE from Oxford. The 'E' being economics.


For us colonials, what does the "PP" stand for?


The modern 'classics' - Politics, Philosophy and Economics.

Civilised people, of course, would rather read English than taint their arts and humanities with math ;)

Do disagree with Herwin over economic literacy - the US system is hardly one to aspire to XD


How can one study politics and/or philosophy without literature? Most of the history courses I took in college had at least one novel from the period/region. No other way I was going to read "Heart of a Dog."

The level of economic literacy in the US generlaly is pretty low, although Americans have a pretty good deckplate understanding of capitalism's daily operations. I though Herwin was bewailing the UK's schlerotic higher-educaiton system. Based on what he describes I would say the US system is superior, albeit more chaotic. If a student wants to study economics, they study economics. Or anything else. I majored in history, but I had over 20 semester hours of art history, and about the same in business and computer courses. (My university didn't allow minors.)


John Keegan addressed the US/UK higher-education divide somewhat by chance in his book Warpaths. Thought US system was incredibly wasteful in the breadth of subjects but that it represented a more balanced approach w/ more opportunity.

Took a course about France in the 1800's. That's how I was stuck w/ Madame Bovary. Iirc 600+ pages, she's married by page 15, cheating on her husband by page 30, by the end of the book you're rooting for her to eat rat poison. Still the worst book that I've ever read (and I've read a couple by Mosier).

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 21
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 6:58:58 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

And besides, just about every leading UK politician these days does PPE from Oxford. The 'E' being economics.


For us colonials, what does the "PP" stand for?


That would be Preparation Points for Economics. You get 50 per day and it allows you to change from the Austrian to the Chicago School one you accumulate enough.

Alfred


Now how do I clean this coffee off of my monitor without scratching it?!

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 22
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 7:06:14 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Took a course about France in the 1800's. That's how I was stuck w/ Madame Bovary. Iirc 600+ pages, she's married by page 15, cheating on her husband by page 30, by the end of the book you're rooting for her to eat rat poison. Still the worst book that I've ever read (and I've read a couple by Mosier).


"Madame" was my ex-wife's second favorite book, after "The Once and Future King." I'm probably prejudiced.

I've read a lot of novels I didn't enjoy, but I wouldn't say they were terrible novels. I've never read "Madame Bovary", but I'd say its longevity probably indicates it has something going for it.

_____________________________

The Moose

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Post #: 23
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 7:34:39 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zebedee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

And besides, just about every leading UK politician these days does PPE from Oxford. The 'E' being economics.


For us colonials, what does the "PP" stand for?


The modern 'classics' - Politics, Philosophy and Economics.

Civilised people, of course, would rather read English than taint their arts and humanities with math ;)

Do disagree with Herwin over economic literacy - the US system is hardly one to aspire to XD


How can one study politics and/or philosophy without literature? Most of the history courses I took in college had at least one novel from the period/region. No other way I was going to read "Heart of a Dog."

The level of economic literacy in the US generlaly is pretty low, although Americans have a pretty good deckplate understanding of capitalism's daily operations. I though Herwin was bewailing the UK's schlerotic higher-educaiton system. Based on what he describes I would say the US system is superior, albeit more chaotic. If a student wants to study economics, they study economics. Or anything else. I majored in history, but I had over 20 semester hours of art history, and about the same in business and computer courses. (My university didn't allow minors.)


John Keegan addressed the US/UK higher-education divide somewhat by chance in his book Warpaths. Thought US system was incredibly wasteful in the breadth of subjects but that it represented a more balanced approach w/ more opportunity.

Took a course about France in the 1800's. That's how I was stuck w/ Madame Bovary. Iirc 600+ pages, she's married by page 15, cheating on her husband by page 30, by the end of the book you're rooting for her to eat rat poison. Still the worst book that I've ever read (and I've read a couple by Mosier).

Oh, anarchy! You had me at rat poison! This book is in my pantheon of the Worst Books I've Ever Read. My expository composition course in Freshman college year found me writing a 20+ treatise on the useages of sweat in the book as a form of character development.

Anyone else get gut cramps when they think about Dune by Francis Herbert?

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 12/3/2010 7:35:00 PM >

_____________________________


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Post #: 24
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 7:36:35 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Took a course about France in the 1800's. That's how I was stuck w/ Madame Bovary. Iirc 600+ pages, she's married by page 15, cheating on her husband by page 30, by the end of the book you're rooting for her to eat rat poison. Still the worst book that I've ever read (and I've read a couple by Mosier).


"Madame" was my ex-wife's second favorite book, after "The Once and Future King." I'm probably prejudiced.

I've read a lot of novels I didn't enjoy, but I wouldn't say they were terrible novels. I've never read "Madame Bovary", but I'd say its longevity probably indicates it has something going for it.

Strychnine and arsenicals have been around for a long time as rodenticides too, moose. I'm not about to ingest either of these, given the choice. I'd advise the same caution with Madame Bovary.

_____________________________


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Post #: 25
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 7:41:34 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Strychnine and arsenicals have been around for a long time as rodenticides too, moose. I'm not about to ingest either of these, given the choice. I'd advise the same caution with Madame Bovary.


See, now I have to read it, just to see.

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The Moose

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Post #: 26
RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 7:43:50 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Anyone else get gut cramps when they think about Dune by Francis Herbert?


Love it. Read it five times or so, seen every movie. Way ahead of its time, eco-teaching-wise, not to mention having "Arab" freedom fighters knocking on highly-developed, technology-based adversaries. Yeah, you could read/see "Lawrence of Arabia", but what American teenager in the 70s was going to do THAT?

Also loved his "The White Plague", much lesser known, but often copied. An IRA terrorist bomb kills the family of a briliant bio researcher, so he decides that every man in the world will feel the pain he feels. He designs a plague that only kills women. All of them.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 12/3/2010 7:46:38 PM >

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RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 7:55:00 PM   
Zebedee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin
We had a number of American students over for Thanksgiving dinner, and this came up. They were comparing their experience of a UK university with their programs back home, and the marked numerical illiteracy of UK students was commented on.


I think one would have to compare eggs with eggs. Certainly the standard of the 'average' student at the former 'polys' and the less favoured 'red brick' universities has taken a decline for the worse over the past couple of decades. That's a cross-discipline complaint though and comes from (as you'll know all too well) the way funding is calculated. In turn, that leads to D and E students being considered as suitable for degree courses when their attainment at A-level would suggest they were barely suitable for study at that level. But British students can't be that innumerate given that they're currently out on the streets after working out that degree courses charged as proposed aren't going to be beneficial to the vast majority of them

re. Cross-discipline studies. To a degree, there is a point there given the historic isolation of departments within the major universities and the structure (as well as academic demands) of the three term system. The semester and modular system opened some doors but then much depends on whether the individual student wishes to avail themselves of the opportunities that presents as well as just how well that meshes with how their degree will be marked. Not sure when you entered academia in the UK Herwin, but the market-led system is a relatively new event (two decades or so now) and I'm sure we'll get to the full glory of the US system at some point in the near future. Not sure that's for the best, but I'm kind of traditional and sup port in the SCR in a smoking jacket too ;)

< Message edited by Zebedee -- 12/3/2010 7:59:15 PM >

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RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 8:13:59 PM   
Mynok


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The specialization of education is one of the great tragedies of the last century. The giants of science, literature, music and the arts of prior centuries had much more well-rounded educations.

Liberal Arts has become contemptible in our society apparently. That is our great, great loss.


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RE: OT - Running Out of British Assets? Buy Some - 12/3/2010 8:17:39 PM   
Nikademus


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From: Alien spacecraft
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Anyone else get gut cramps when they think about Dune by Francis Herbert?


Love it. Read it five times or so, seen every movie. Way ahead of its time, eco-teaching-wise, not to mention having "Arab" freedom fighters knocking on highly-developed, technology-based adversaries. Yeah, you could read/see "Lawrence of Arabia", but what American teenager in the 70s was going to do THAT?

Also loved his "The White Plague", much lesser known, but often copied. An IRA terrorist bomb kills the family of a briliant bio researcher, so he decides that every man in the world will feel the pain he feels. He designs a plague that only kills women. All of them.


1st book was great.....the following books became tedious, 2nd only to a Robert Jordan novel.

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