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Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/4/2010 11:36:22 PM

fsp

Posts: 77
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline

Hi all,

I just felt the need to share why I started posting here after lurking for years. I am just so excited about three upcoming games that I felt to document my support for this company and the relevant games. All three are sure buys.

1) Panzer Corps
Panzer General was the game that got me started in war-gaming. I was only 15 at the time, but god how I loved that game. Back then, I thought this was very realistically portraiting WWII. I did especially feel so when my armies just went short of taking Moscow due to mud and snow in my first campaign attempt :-). Somehow, I never doubted the game's realism despite dropping paratroopers behind the lines and then buying tank units there... oh well...

I also do appreciate rudankort's decision to stick with the scale of PG1. While I did like PG2, it really felt epic to play operations like Stalingrad or Low Countries, compared to unclimatic operations like "Klin".

There is one issue I want to raise. In PG1, you often had only one viable route if you wanted a major victory. I would love for PC to have several routes open as options in the different scenarios.

Also, I loved the twisted campaign tree so much and really did not like the "win scenario or lose game" choice that was made for much of PG2. Let me lose a scenario and put me on the defense or make the road tougher for me!

2) Panzer Command Ostfront

I never liked the Panzer Command: Winterstorm demo enough to buy the game. Was too busy to check out Kharkov. But I have always been an avid gamer of CM:BB (don't like the new CM engine...). But the huge list of updates for Ostfront and the sensible pricing made this one very interesting for me. It was a sell once I noticed that it does have campaigns, something I have always missed for CM (sad to see CM Campaigns die...). So, definitely getting this one.

3) GG War in the East

I don't need to use much words for this. After starting off on PG, I turned to more serious stuff over the years. Ended up with WIR (Matrix Edition). First put off by the terrible graphics and the very, very unconventional interface. Once I got the hang of things, I found it rather beautiful. One of the most brilliant game I have every played, though all of my non-believing FPS-playing friendy have never understood it. I have a friend that kinda likes wargames, but for him it does not go deeper than PG, CIV or Total War. A tank has to be a tank on the map for him. Show him a game like WIR, and he does not like it ("Oh, again, crosses and circles, that is not a game. I need to see my tanks and men..."). Digressing here... Anyways, unfortunately I later found out that the AI is quite easy to beat in WIR after w a while, tough I got my ass handed to me in the first games. Never really dared to go PBEM, as I figured I would be utterly crushed by all the pros out there. Maybe a big mistake. I intend to make good on this now. I will PBEM, even though I will probably stand no chance. But I like a challenge and like to fight on the defense as well (also very much like the fact that there will be server based PBEM. I trust the wargaming community a lot, but it is always good to KNOW that this all to perfect last turn of your opponent CANNOT have been a cheat...)

WitE is a dream come true. AARs and info here on the forum look perfect. I know I will be playing this forever. And the other plans with a WitW game and maybe a combination sound very, very promising as well.

Again, it may seem stupid or redundant to post in all three sub-forums, but I am not sure if every developer reads every forum and I wanted them all to know that there games are already sold for me. Also, I feel this might give you guys a little bit of background for me, as I want to become active in PBEMs.

Post #: 1

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 12:31:32 AM

Michael T

Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline

Hey Daniel
I was a lurker for many years as well. Like you I am keen on PBEM via the Server. No doubts can be raised about honesty. I will be looking for a non-playtester opponent first up on the Server PBEM so we might get a game going.
Cheers
Michael

_____________________________

(in reply to fsp)

Post #: 2

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 2:11:11 AM

Flaviusx

Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline

Nobody wants to play against us?

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WitE Alpha Tester

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Post #: 3

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 2:26:07 AM

ool

Posts: 470
Joined: 12/25/2007
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline

Only if they are masochists!

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Post #: 4

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 2:33:37 AM

gids

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/2/2010
Status: offline

Same story for me mate ,WiR was my first shot at something more hardcore ,then war in the west followed alot of HPS games a worked all the close combats off :) but i really im more fan of big scale things,i spended countless hours on norm kogers game ,anyway but team grigsby seem to have the same fascination for details like most grognards have here,when i saw the first time years ago the message they would work on WitE i was like ...this is it ...,since then im a matrix addict although im just started to post on the site because im not really a forum talker but most people here seem to be from the sime mind plus the conversations are great ,anyhow if ya need a Pbem partner give a yell im a big nub in it as well but i dont mind getting my ass handed to me ,and you never know how it will go...stalin was ready to capitulate as well if my memory serves me right ,

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 5

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 2:36:02 AM

Flaviusx

Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ool

Only if they are masochists!

If you see this guy named Andy Johnson, play him. He's a real creampuff.

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WitE Alpha Tester

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Post #: 6

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 2:44:31 AM

wmcalpine

Posts: 131
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

Flaviusx,

That is not very nice. :)

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 7

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 3:00:15 AM

Adam Parker

Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fsp

Hi all,

I just felt the need to share why I started posting here after lurking for years. I am just so excited about three upcoming games...

1) Panzer Corps... I also do appreciate rudankort's decision to stick with the scale of PG1. While I did like PG2, it really felt epic to play operations like Stalingrad or Low Countries, compared to unclimatic operations like "Klin".

There is one issue I want to raise. In PG1, you often had only one viable route if you wanted a major victory. I would love for PC to have several routes open as options in the different scenarios.

Also, I loved the twisted campaign tree so much and really did not like the "win scenario or lose game" choice that was made for much of PG2. Let me lose a scenario and put me on the defense or make the road tougher for me!

Yes, yes and yes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fsp

3) GG War in the East... WitE is a dream come true. AARs and info here on the forum look perfect. I know I will be playing this forever. And the other plans with a WitW game and maybe a combination sound very, very promising as well.

I think you're one of Grigsby's, Matrix's and the hobby's dream customers. Keep the passion up! Nice to meet you fsp. Hope to hear from you more often

Cheers,
Adam.

(in reply to fsp)

Post #: 8

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 4:43:15 AM

Captain B

Posts: 386
Joined: 8/30/2009
From: Knoxville, Tennessee
Status: offline

Well, I like someones idea of playing the soviets against an experienced play tester to get the feel for how it must have felt to be the russians the first four months of the war. Who knows, I may ready to get my butt kicked.

_____________________________

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WITE Scenario Tester
WITW Beta Tester

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 9

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 6:33:49 AM

CheerfullyInsane

Posts: 199
Joined: 12/5/2010
From: Birkerod, Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain B

Well, I like someones idea of playing the soviets against an experienced play tester to get the feel for how it must have felt to be the russians the first four months of the war. Who knows, I may ready to get my butt kicked.

Actually to *really* get the experience you'd need to have someone standing behind you with a loaded gun every time you try to move a unit eastwards.

However, getting back to the OP, since we're all de-lurking here I figured I'd jump in as well.
WitE looks like it might finally be the definite East Front game.
I tried (no, really I did) to like the original WiR, but never could get past the interface and somewhat lacklustre graphics.
But what really sells it for me is the server-based PBEM. It's not so much a question of the possible cheating through use of save-games, since I'm confident enough (read: plain dumb) to think that anyone who plays a game of this scope will be mature enough not to stoop that low.
But after trying server-based multi-player in Field of Glory, I've found that the sheer ease of finding opponents of all skill-levels is a life-saver.
Especially for someone like me who is less-than-savvy when it comes to finding the active forums.

Only problem is.....Across the Dnepr 2, WitE and now a new tournament in Field of Glory.....
I may have to quit my job

(in reply to Captain B)

Post #: 10

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 9:20:48 AM

fsp

Posts: 77
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline

This is starting to feel like Alcoholics Anonymous here. Keep it coming

I too liked that idea (I think it was by a beta tester) to play as the Russians first and thus learn by suffering badly.

Ah, the job. If only I did not have that one

(in reply to CheerfullyInsane)

Post #: 11

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 11:43:10 AM

glvaca

Posts: 1312
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Nobody wants to play against us?

I'll play! No better way to learn the game then to play against the best!

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 12

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 12:21:57 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

BTW, guys, IMHO it would be useful for WitE beginners to:

#1
Read manual (and it is huge

)

#2
Read tutorial

#3
Play some shorter scenarios "Road to..." against AI

#4
Only then jump into PBEM bandwagon...

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to fsp)

Post #: 13

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 12:44:28 PM

gids

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/2/2010
Status: offline

ill follow that lead noworries :) thanks for the advice

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 14

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 12:57:15 PM

sillyflower

Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

BTW, guys, IMHO it would be useful for WitE beginners to:

#1
Read manual
#2
Read tutorial

#3
Play some shorter scenarios "Road to..." against AI

#4
Only then jump into PBEM bandwagon...

This is my plan - which is why I have begged Eric elsewhere for whole manual to be released a couple of days in advance of game.

Am trying to get an old friend, with whom I played WIR (20+ years ago IIRC) posting floppies with saved games on, to play this PBEM but he's worried this game may be a bit too complex. We both 'cheated' all the time with WIR but we both knew we were so that was OK morally even tho' with hindsight the games would have been more fun if we had not.

I'm seriously tempted to play '41 full campaign on PBEM server though and would even play Flavius if we could do a deal on how many extra admin points I got! It would waste too much time for both of us if he did to me what Pyledriver did to normal AI on his recent AA, or worse.

_____________________________

web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 15

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 1:11:14 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

BTW, guys, IMHO it would be useful for WitE beginners to:

#1
Read manual

#2
Read tutorial

#3
Play some shorter scenarios "Road to..." against AI

#4
Only then jump into PBEM bandwagon...

This is my plan - which is why I have begged Eric elsewhere for whole manual to be released a couple of days in advance of game.

Am trying to get an old friend, with whom I played WIR (20+ years ago IIRC) posting floppies with saved games on, to play this PBEM but he's worried this game may be a bit too complex. We both 'cheated' all the time with WIR but we both knew we were so that was OK morally even tho' with hindsight the games would have been more fun if we had not.

I'm seriously tempted to play '41 full campaign on PBEM server though and would even play Flavius if we could do a deal on how many extra admin points I got! It would waste too much time for both of us if he did to me what Pyledriver did to normal AI on his recent AA, or worse.

Even though the manual is huge

and the game enormous... one can quickly get the hang of it... the gameplay is smooth and every player will learn "the ropes" in a few days... I don't think players will have problems with interface or gameplay at all...

BTW, the only "problem" starts when you strat to dream your frontline in the night and wonder if you could have done something else (i.e. better) somewhere...

Thus beware - the WitE is captivating!

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to sillyflower)

Post #: 16

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 2:10:13 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline

Just fyi: I'm 100% a Soviet player. No interest whatsoever in playing Germans. This, as it turns out, is something of a minority taste for some odd reason.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 17

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 2:23:43 PM

ool

Posts: 470
Joined: 12/25/2007
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline

I prefer playing the Soviets in the first two years. After that I play the German. Being the underdog in a big way is very appealing to me.

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Post #: 18

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 3:50:49 PM

CheerfullyInsane

Posts: 199
Joined: 12/5/2010
From: Birkerod, Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

BTW, guys, IMHO it would be useful for WitE beginners to:

#1
Read manual (and it is huge )

#2
Read tutorial

#3
Play some shorter scenarios "Road to..." against AI

#4
Only then jump into PBEM bandwagon...

Leo "Apollo11"

Oh no! You're saying that this game has a learning-curve?!
Damn.....Well, won't buy it then. I thought it would be like Checkers only with tanks.

Seriously though, it's not bad advice.
Tutorials are always good, and reading the manual at least once is probably a good idea too.
Though usually I find that I can't remember half of it anyway, and still prefer the 'learning-by-doing' approach.
Judging from the excerpt of the rulebook,it's fairly basic stuff for anyone who's played wargames for a while, so after playing for a few days (probably in a row) the flow of the game becomes clear and the manual can be reserved for those special case.....
"Now, I've got paratroopers jumping across the river into a mountain-hex, and with an artillery unit in support. So can I attach an alpine transport unit with my engineers, drop goats in inflatable boats and then ferry the artillery over the river before hauling it up the mountain?"

To me, there are two things that can make a game a 'monster'; scope and rules clarity.
Now, WitE clearly qualifies for the scope but that in itself isn't a problem as long as the rules are clear and the implications of ones actions are easily understood.
Something like HPS' PzC Moscow is a perfect example of this. It's big yes, but the mechanics are simple (well, reasonably so) and I never feel that I don't know what I'm doing.
It's far worse when the mechanics aren't clear, or if the information you need to make decisions isn't readily available.
The AGE engine is, at least to me, the best example of this. It's obviously a beautiful set of games, wonderfully adaptable engine, but I've yet to make it through turn 3 of any of them.
Too many things going on under the hood, and half the time I have no idea what is happening or why.
And don't even talk to me about WitP:AE........If you need a spread-sheet to understand what is going on, then that isn't a game, that's a second job.

But what I intend to do is go through the tutorials, and then play a few smaller scenarios against the AI.
After that, it's on to PBEM to find another beginner.
Given that all players are different and tend to focus on different things, I've found that I usually find stuff my opponent hasn't noticed and vice-versa, thus improving both our understanding of the game.
Granted, starting with a 41-45 campaign is probably not a wise decision, but with multi-player you get the opportunity to ask your opponent why he did what he did (and how for that matter).
I will obviously get spanked the first many games I play, which is fine by me.
I don't mind losing (well.....much) as long as I know why.
And one thing I love about wargamers, they are almost to a man a polite and informative lot.

Now....Release the damn thing already!

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 19

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 5:00:41 PM

SGHunt

Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheerfullyInsane
And one thing I love about wargamers, they are almost to a man a polite and informative lot.

I resent that!!

You can learn the basics by playing, indeed the basic mechanics are sweet and simple, but not all of it! To get the best out of the game, you have to know what's going on under the hood at least to a certain extent.

You will not regret PBEM - it's my first time PBEM and I have loved it - and you will get your ar*e kicked if you play Andy (Sabre)! You will need at least 2 games on the go so that you can carry on playing whilst waiting for the return turn by email. It's a big game and turns take time. And we have to work and stuff...

We are nearly there now, children. Can you see the sea yet?

_____________________________

Stuart 'von Jaeger' Hunt

WitE Alpha, Beta Tester

(in reply to CheerfullyInsane)

Post #: 20

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 5:55:54 PM

Bradd

Posts: 24
Joined: 12/5/2010
Status: offline

Mark me down too as a long time lurker buying this one. Have been playing wargames for along time (old spi games) and can't wait for this one to come out! It looks awesome!

(in reply to fsp)

Post #: 21

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 6:51:25 PM

vvidas

Posts: 14
Joined: 1/17/2008
From: Rijeka, Croatia
Status: offline

Well, after monstrous WitP and WitP-AE this is one must have, and I don't mind price!
Gary Grigsby is my favourite wargame developer.
Now I'm buying books about Eastern Front to get familiar with this kind of warfare as I'm primary pacific boy and still newbie in wargaming.

(in reply to Bradd)

Post #: 22

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 8:07:05 PM

blastpop

Posts: 395
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Just fyi: I'm 100% a Soviet player. No interest whatsoever in playing Germans. This, as it turns out, is something of a minority taste for some odd reason.

I guess we are part of the same minority. I prefer the Russians as they start the underdog and have several hurtles to cross just to survive. Yeh, the Nazis can win the fashion war, but that helps little when the T-34's come to visit...

Actually it probably will be easy to get a PBEM game since I am taking the non preferred side, according to many...

Anyone want to start a game when it arrives?

< Message edited by blastpop -- 12/5/2010 8:10:00 PM >

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 23

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 8:12:39 PM

blastpop

Posts: 395
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: blastpop

Anyone want to start a game when it arrives?

Speak of arrival- Any bets on the date of arrival? I bet 100 Quatloos it will be Thursday Dec 9, 2010...

Blastpop- Gamester of Triskalion

< Message edited by blastpop -- 12/5/2010 8:14:12 PM >

(in reply to blastpop)

Post #: 24

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 8:51:27 PM

Redmarkus5

Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uskok

Well, after monstrous WitP and WitP-AE this is one must have, and I don't mind price!
Gary Grigsby is my favourite wargame developer.
Now I'm buying books about Eastern Front to get familiar with this kind of warfare as I'm primary pacific boy and still newbie in wargaming.

I am currently playing 2 WiTP PBEM games and I will be playing WiTE alongside them so that I have both theatres going simultaneously!

I might even kick-off a BoBII campaign followed by a B17 The Fight Eighth one (great game - underrated). I should get those done just in time to order that Normandy game that's due out... If it wasn't too sad, I'd have them all synchronised by date and put a big wall map up to track my progress in global conquest. (Just kidding)

May I recommend:

1. Thunder in the East by Mawdsley
2. Absolute War by Bellamy
3. Panzer Operations by Raus

These are less popular than some other titles, but I find them to be excellent sources.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to vvidas)

Post #: 25

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/5/2010 10:37:02 PM

hgilmer3

Posts: 530
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Just fyi: I'm 100% a Soviet player. No interest whatsoever in playing Germans. This, as it turns out, is something of a minority taste for some odd reason.

In WiR, I almost exclusively played the Soviets. I love the first blizzard turns and the counter attack!

This title looks like it is gaining a lot of momentum with people who usually are quiet. Maybe this will be one of the best ever of these types of wargames.

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 26

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/6/2010 7:09:12 PM

sillyflower

Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: von Jaeger

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheerfullyInsane
And one thing I love about wargamers, they are almost to a man a polite and informative lot.

I resent that!!
that you can carry on playing whilst waiting for the return turn by email. It's a big game and turns take time. And we have to work and stuff...

We are nearly there now, children. Can you see the sea yet?

1 Be fair -he did say 'almost'

2 Stuff the sea. I want to see the Caucasus from Mt Elbrus

_____________________________

(in reply to SGHunt)

Post #: 27

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/6/2010 9:52:34 PM

raizer

Posts: 276
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline

As a long time pbem HPS player-of all the tiller pz campaigns-games I consider second to none when it comes to operational level warfare (course I cant play a game without volcano man's art and map mods by jison)-I am eagerly awaiting this game. Because when I was young, maybe in 8th or 9th grade, SSI and Grigsby came out with that war in russia game. That was one of the intros to computer gaming for me.

This looks great and Id pay 60 bucks for it no problem

But one of the weird vibes Im getting here thou is the fear of pbem cheating. Ive only been reading the forums for a few days and this comes up over and over again. And I dont see any ladders at all-they all seem dead. At the blitz.org there is an extensive and well supported ladder that has been goin on for over 8 years and I can think of only one instance of cheating. I like the server idea of pbem games because it appears to be an easy notification and organization tool, not an anti cheating devices. Again I'm looking forward to pbem either way because no AI can stand up to good human play.
Bring on Tues/Weds

Oh snap, someone was asking about books on the Russo German conflict-that was my major in college-good old amherst...Anything by COl. Glanz will fill your appetite for reading. I highly recommend Kursk (which I could not put down) and his two 2 NEW books on Stalingrad-HUGE books with great detail-I have yet to read them but have them. I am currently reading Blitzkrieg in the West-a then and now pictorial book of 800 pages with amazing photos...but back to russian front books-Glanz is great, of course you can go with the old one, Enemy at the Gates, and Manstiens own book, Lost Victories-good books all. Too many to list. I would goto amazon and look at customer reviews, of course Glanz's new stalingrads are a perfect 10 for 10

< Message edited by raizer -- 12/6/2010 10:01:24 PM >

(in reply to sillyflower)

Post #: 28

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/6/2010 10:03:07 PM

raizer

Posts: 276
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Just fyi: I'm 100% a Soviet player. No interest whatsoever in playing Germans. This, as it turns out, is something of a minority taste for some odd reason.

but the best way to be a better soviet player would be to take the other side once in a while-then you know the intimate detail of your sworn enemy

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 29

RE: Long-time lurker buying this one - 12/6/2010 10:12:19 PM

CheerfullyInsane

Posts: 199
Joined: 12/5/2010
From: Birkerod, Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: raizer
But one of the weird vibes Im getting here thou is the fear of pbem cheating. Ive only been reading the forums for a few days and this comes up over and over again. And I dont see any ladders at all-they all seem dead. At the blitz.org there is an extensive and well supported ladder that has been goin on for over 8 years and I can think of only one instance of cheating. I like the server idea of pbem games because it appears to be an easy notification and organization tool, not an anti cheating devices. Again I'm looking forward to pbem either way because no AI can stand up to good human play.
Bring on Tues/Weds

I don't think people are actually worried about cheating, more excited about the idea that now they can be positive.
I still maintain that people willing to invest the time and money this game requires, aren't likely to cheat in the first place.
The AI can't substitute a human player, but they are getting very good.
SSGs AI in the Decisive Battles series still kicks my butt on a regular basis, and from what I've read it looks like GAIA is quite capable of giving you a serious run for your money.

As for the ladders, they will come as soon as the fan-base grows bigger.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the game actually tracks win/loss record for ladder use, just hasn't been implemented yet.
We'll see.

(in reply to raizer)

Post #: 30