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The Burmese Tiger Tank?

 
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The Burmese Tiger Tank? - 8/29/2002 1:33:34 AM   
Redleg


Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		Fradar sent me a photo of a Tiger in Burma being ridden upon by some Japanese staff officers.

Does anyone know about this and what may have happened to this Tiger?

Fabio?
Post #: 1
- 8/29/2002 1:57:22 AM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Hello

Is it this image: http://www.tiger-tank.com/secure/photos/2399_b_5_sm.jpg

Only reference to Japanese Tiger is that one was sold to Japan in 1943 but never delivered. The vehicle was then loaned to Germany and put into use.

Voriax

Oh btw, that website is well worth checking :)

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Post #: 2
- 8/29/2002 3:00:35 AM   
Kaakao

 

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		If I remember correctly that picture is not taken in Burma but in Germany where the Japanese tested the tank and how the german crews were trained.

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Post #: 3
- 8/29/2002 10:54:07 AM   
Redleg


Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		That is the photo except the one I have is a wider view. The text mentions "Burma" but I am not sure about the context.

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Post #: 4
- 8/29/2002 8:24:07 PM   
Kaakao

 

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		There has been an url on this forum about the Tiger tank and there was that same picture and others too were the officers were examining the tank, facilities and training of the crews. Just can't find that url right now :(

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Post #: 5
Japanese Tiger tank - 8/30/2002 2:33:03 AM   
MARKUSS

 

Posts: 220
Joined: 8/29/2002
From: Bolton, Lancashire, UK
Status: offline 		Dear All

The photos of the Japanese officers with the Tiger tank were taken in Germany. A Colonel Ishide, Japanese AFV expert arrived there in 1943, visiting the Henschel works on 30th July with the Japanese Military Attache for Germany, where a Panther D and Tiger Ausf H were inspected.

The Japanese bought one of each, but the payment for these expensive vehicles was only made in November 1944, by which time there was no realistic prospect of getting them back to Japan by sea due to Allied control of the sea lanes, and they were too large to go by the usual submarine supply run. One source even states that the Japanese payments were never actually made.

Japan would have done better to buy Panzerschrecks and Panzerfausts instead - far cheaper, easier to make and would have cost the Allies dearly in men and machines.

Regards

Charles Markuss

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Post #: 6
Japanese Tiger tank - 8/30/2002 2:45:59 AM   
MARKUSS

 

Posts: 220
Joined: 8/29/2002
From: Bolton, Lancashire, UK
Status: offline 		Dear All

The photos of the Japanese officers with the Tiger tank were taken in Germany. A Colonel Ishide, Japanese AFV expert arrived there in 1943, visiting the Henschel works on 30th July with the Japanese Military Attache for Germany, where a Panther D and Tiger Ausf H were inspected.

The Japanese bought one of each, but the payment for these expensive vehicles was only made in November 1944, by which time there was no realistic prospect of getting them back to Japan by sea due to Allied control of the sea lanes, and they were too large to go by the usual submarine supply run. One source even states that the Japanese payments were never actually made.

Japan would have done better to buy Panzerschrecks and Panzerfausts instead - far cheaper, easier to make and would have cost the Allies dearly in men and machines.

Regards

Charles Markuss

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Post #: 7
- 8/31/2002 12:12:03 AM   
AbsntMndedProf


Posts: 1780
Joined: 7/6/2001
From: Boston, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		Markuss posted:

"Japan would have done better to buy Panzerschrecks and Panzerfausts instead - far cheaper, easier to make and would have cost the Allies dearly in men and machines. "

Or, alternatively, the Japanese could have just retooled a factory to make them in Japan.

Eric Maietta

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Post #: 8
- 8/31/2002 12:45:44 AM   
Redleg


Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		Thanks guys - I was really curious about that Tiger and the photo I saw.

(in reply to Redleg)
Post #: 9
- 9/1/2002 3:41:36 AM   
Fabio Prado

 

Posts: 503
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		Sorry for being so late - I was on a hospital tour with Little Miss Dangerous Pneumonia... ;)

About the Japanese Tiger: Charles Markuss explained it brilliantly. The only thing I can add is that this particular Tiger ended in the hands of the sSSPzAbt.101 (attached to the SS PzGr. Div. LSSAH) or sSSPzAbt.102 (attached to the SS PzGr. Div. Das Reich) - I don't remember exactly what of the two got it "as a present from the Japanese people"... Either in business, politics or war, Adolf was not a reliable partner...

Fab

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Post #: 10
- 9/1/2002 4:03:20 AM   
Redleg


Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		Thanks, Fabio. And all.

(in reply to Redleg)
Post #: 11
Japanese Tiger - 9/3/2002 7:43:12 PM   
MARKUSS

 

Posts: 220
Joined: 8/29/2002
From: Bolton, Lancashire, UK
Status: offline 		Fabio is right about Hitler's value as an ally; all attempts by other Axis allies like Romania and Hungary to build vehicles like the Panthers under licence failed because Germany insisted on charging a very high price to do so, and Japan would have been no exception. So much for Axis solidarity.

Eric might think the Panther would have been a good buy for Japan, but consider the problems. On German vehicles the transmissions often failed after about 35 km of running, and training standards and logistics were better in Europe than among Japan's ramshackle supply organisation. It was difficult getting even comparatively light AFVs from Japan to the war zones by ship, let alone bulky and heavy brutes like the Panther or Tiger. These were no vehicles for dense terrain, although there were areas in Burma or the Phillipines [is the spellling correct?] where their long range weapons might have been used to advantage.

Given the slaughter of Japanese merchantmen by US and allied submarines and the raw materials shortages in Japan as a result, these were no vehicles for a beleaugered island to be building. I would stick with Panzerfausts and Panzerschrecks.


Regards


Charles

(in reply to Redleg)
Post #: 12
Japanese Tiger - 9/3/2002 7:46:27 PM   
MARKUSS

 

Posts: 220
Joined: 8/29/2002
From: Bolton, Lancashire, UK
Status: offline 		Sorry Eric, misread your note! Mea culpa.

Charles

(in reply to Redleg)
Post #: 13
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