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out of control civil sector - 12/19/2010 7:54:24 PM   
currierm

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		I've got a game where I'm otherwise doing well, but the civil sector building is out of control. I've got 20+ civil ships queued at every starbase. Admittedly, I'm a little low on fuel but most of my ships are moving around at full speed. One thing I've noticed is that my Polymer demand is 55k and carbon fibre is at 16 (I've got 4 sources of polymer and 2 of carbon fibre). This is probably more than demand for all other resources combined, so this seems completely out of whack. I suspect the crazy civil sector building is trying to build ships to go locate more of the in demand resource- thus creating a viscious cycle.

Anyone seen something like this? Did you figure out a way to snap the AI out of it? It would be nice to have a "martial law" feature where you can reboot the civil sector- either that or let you dequeue civil ship building requests.
Post #: 1
RE: out of control civil sector - 12/19/2010 8:04:53 PM   
Krob

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 8/29/2010
Status: offline 		Gift horse and all that. :P Those ships means money in your coffers. If you're worried about not being able to turn out ships of your own, build a larger spaceport somewhere (my Large design has 12 construction bays) and they'll either utilize the hell out of it, or give you some slots to get a ship in now and then.

As for your resource shortage, it may be a circular thing. Especially polymer since it's used for a crap-load of components. I have over 30 planets with polymer and it's still number 6 in my demand list. Explore and Expand more and you should cover that a bit better. :P


K

(in reply to currierm)
Post #: 2
RE: out of control civil sector - 12/19/2010 8:25:04 PM   
currierm

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		I'm working on it. :-) In the meantime, I can still build military ships- although I have to move them up in priority. I also have to manually stop my construction ships from finishing gas/mining stations as they won't finish the handful of components which require polymer/carbon fibre.

One thing that strikes me as odd- total demand for steel is something like 0.3k and my typical ship designs use 3X more steel than carbon fibre. It does seem like some kind of weird feedback loop....

(in reply to Krob)
Post #: 3
RE: out of control civil sector - 12/19/2010 11:22:43 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: currierm

I'm working on it. :-) In the meantime, I can still build military ships- although I have to move them up in priority. I also have to manually stop my construction ships from finishing gas/mining stations as they won't finish the handful of components which require polymer/carbon fibre.

One thing that strikes me as odd- total demand for steel is something like 0.3k and my typical ship designs use 3X more steel than carbon fibre. It does seem like some kind of weird feedback loop....


You've probably got quite a few steel sources...they tend to be rather numerous...and that probably accounts for the lower demand, you have more supply than you need. My biggest problem is that I'm constantly running out of gases...particularly the fuel types.

_____________________________

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'When in doubt...attack!'

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Post #: 4
RE: out of control civil sector - 12/19/2010 11:25:02 PM   
TheLastRonin

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 12/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: currierm

I'm working on it. :-) In the meantime, I can still build military ships- although I have to move them up in priority. I also have to manually stop my construction ships from finishing gas/mining stations as they won't finish the handful of components which require polymer/carbon fibre.

One thing that strikes me as odd- total demand for steel is something like 0.3k and my typical ship designs use 3X more steel than carbon fibre. It does seem like some kind of weird feedback loop....


You've probably got quite a few steel sources...they tend to be rather numerous...and that probably accounts for the lower demand, you have more supply than you need. My biggest problem is that I'm constantly running out of gases...particularly the fuel types.


Ugh, tell me about it... I started a new game and found only two good fuel sources in a 2000k radius around my homeworld. Guess I'm going to have to start diverting research to fuel efficiency and energy collecters ASAP :(.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 5
RE: out of control civil sector - 12/20/2010 1:27:47 AM   
Aures

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 9/13/2010
Status: offline 		Yes you can get into a vicious cycle. Lack of a resource causes more civil building to satisfy the demand, that raises the demand for the resource, that causes more stuff to be queued etc etc. The only times it is really a problem are at the start of a game when your empire is small, if you mismanage your empire or if production of that resource has been crippled in a war. I kind of like it though, it represents a real danger akin to a vicious cycle of debt in real companies/other games.

I believe that the demand figure in the expansion planner is equal to the amount of reserved resource that are not present eg if you open a colony cargo tab and it says 10000 units of steel are stocked but only 6000 are reserved then that shows up as a demand of 0 in the expansion planner. Conversely, if you have 6000 units of steel but 10000 are reserved it will show up as a demand of 4k. In the mid game my demand figure for most resources drops to 0 or near that value. In late game with a really big empire the figure rises slightly, but that is fine if it is just freighters that have not arrived yet rather than a genuine shortage of a resource.

_____________________________

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Post #: 6
RE: out of control civil sector - 12/20/2010 4:44:37 AM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 281
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline 		Yep, I'm pretty sure the 'demand' column is actually 'unfulfilled demand' as my current empire has no demand of anything but luxury resources and I have lots of construction going on.

(in reply to Aures)
Post #: 7
RE: out of control civil sector - 12/20/2010 5:44:38 PM   
gmot


Posts: 123
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks for clarifying that - it makes sense to me now that demand is unfulfilled demand. But I was reading it previously as the total demand and then wondering why my supply was usually so much higher than my demand. Now I will actually pay attention to the resource planner...

(in reply to forsaken1111)
Post #: 8
RE: out of control civil sector - 1/3/2011 8:50:55 AM   
currierm

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		I've run into problems with carbon fibre again. This time, I've got 9 sources of the stuff and many of those planets have 10k+ carbon fibre stockpiled. As an example, my homeworld hasn't been able to build a ship in about 6 months and there's a planet with 20k carbon fibre a short distance away. Anyone else seen this? Maybe the priority of moving certain strategic resources is too low as I've got freighters carting around all sorts of things right in the same neighborhood.

One thing I've noticed as a result- when it comes to the report on supply and demand I think it may only count resources on planets with starbases.

(in reply to gmot)
Post #: 9
RE: out of control civil sector - 1/3/2011 9:34:42 AM   
sbach2o

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: currierm

I've run into problems with carbon fibre again. This time, I've got 9 sources of the stuff and many of those planets have 10k+ carbon fibre stockpiled. [...]

One thing I've noticed as a result- when it comes to the report on supply and demand I think it may only count resources on planets with starbases.


Confirmed: Only resources in the holds of Mining Bases and on planets with space ports are counted against your 'official' supply as shown in Expansion Planner. It is unclear, though, whether the 'hidden' stockpiles on planets without space ports are still properly picked up to fill demand. It may be that the AI handles these at least with lowered priority (I am speculating, though).

My guess is that it would be wise to build at least small space ports on a few such planets to make the stores there 'official', just to err on the safe side. It also usually pays to have more space yards spread around for shipbuilding, and finally the space ports provide commerce and recreational centers which offer significant bonuses to the planets underneath. One shouldn't be too miserly with these installations.


< Message edited by sbach2o -- 1/3/2011 10:12:57 AM >

(in reply to currierm)
Post #: 10
RE: out of control civil sector - 1/3/2011 11:05:34 AM   
Nibelung44


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/30/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: currierm

I've run into problems with carbon fibre again. This time, I've got 9 sources of the stuff and many of those planets have 10k+ carbon fibre stockpiled. As an example, my homeworld hasn't been able to build a ship in about 6 months and there's a planet with 20k carbon fibre a short distance away. Anyone else seen this? Maybe the priority of moving certain strategic resources is too low as I've got freighters carting around all sorts of things right in the same neighborhood.

One thing I've noticed as a result- when it comes to the report on supply and demand I think it may only count resources on planets with starbases.


very often. I have to admit I find the whole civilian sector a bit disappointing now.

(in reply to currierm)
Post #: 11
RE: out of control civil sector - 1/3/2011 3:28:43 PM   
gmot


Posts: 123
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline 		I end up building a small space port on all of my planets. It definitely helps in having resources moved around - I don't seem to run into issues much at all. To my mind, the maintenance cost of them is outweighed by the resource handling and centre bonuses they give to their planets. I've also changed the design to include a long range scanner so I rarely need to build a specialized monitoring station and I can keep track of activity around my systems.

(in reply to Nibelung44)
Post #: 12
RE: out of control civil sector - 1/4/2011 1:14:42 PM   
the1sean


Posts: 854
Joined: 5/11/2010
From: Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nibelung44


quote:

ORIGINAL: currierm

I've run into problems with carbon fibre again. This time, I've got 9 sources of the stuff and many of those planets have 10k+ carbon fibre stockpiled. As an example, my homeworld hasn't been able to build a ship in about 6 months and there's a planet with 20k carbon fibre a short distance away. Anyone else seen this? Maybe the priority of moving certain strategic resources is too low as I've got freighters carting around all sorts of things right in the same neighborhood.

One thing I've noticed as a result- when it comes to the report on supply and demand I think it may only count resources on planets with starbases.


very often. I have to admit I find the whole civilian sector a bit disappointing now.


Hmmm, interesting that I rarely run into the demand problems that other players do. I suspect that part of the reason is that I use trade treaties with nearby foreign empires as resource buffers; foreign private sectors fill critical supply needs temporarily when domestic private sector cant.

I suggest making sure that you keep trade treaties open whenever possible, and make sure you have plenty of construction ships to keep domestic mining apace of demand. Under-supplied common resources can really spiral out of control if a balanced economy isnt maintained through aggressive colonization and mining, and foreign trade isnt there to act as a buffer. Small space ports can also help out, mostly by supplying freighters with a refueling location that is also a trade site.

(in reply to Nibelung44)
Post #: 13
RE: out of control civil sector - 1/4/2011 1:40:10 PM   
Nibelung44


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/30/2010
Status: offline 		Are you saying we are constantly walking on a thin rope, not far from total crash? That would not surprise me indeed. Because the civilian sector is far from being efficient in resources distribution. When you have stocks of 20.000 <insert your favored luxury here> and only 2 planets out of 30 in your empire manage to get some of it while the others never see it, then you can wonder... I would do a better job with only 1/4 of the civilian ships at my disposal.

Now, perhaps I'm just a control freak. Some can be satisfied to see their worlds stall in development even with plentiful of resources potentially available. I, don't like that.

(in reply to the1sean)
Post #: 14
RE: out of control civil sector - 1/5/2011 10:35:37 AM   
the1sean


Posts: 854
Joined: 5/11/2010
From: Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nibelung44

Are you saying we are constantly walking on a thin rope, not far from total crash?


Nope, quite the opposite. Early on your private sector and economy in general will be weak, but with some TLC it can become an unstoppable powerhouse that gives you the infrastructure needed to conquer the galaxy! Most of my game time is spent in private sector bliss.

What I am saying is that, if you are having trouble with your private sector and supply need fulfillment in the early game, trade and defense treaties can really help.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nibelung44

Now, perhaps I'm just a control freak.


You are a control freak But you embrace it, that's good. DW is also a great game for control freaks


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nibelung44
Some can be satisfied to see their worlds stall in development even with plentiful of resources potentially available. I, don't like that.


I don't experience major supply problems except possibly at the earliest parts of the game (where this is natural), so I am not satisfied with mediocrity, and I think it's funny that you insinuate that

Seriously though, there is a huge difference between low stockpiles of mandatory resources like fuel and construction fodder, and luxuries. The former will bring things to a screeching halt (see original post), the latter just risks stunting long term growth and income (from low tax rates from lower happiness without luxuries). As long as your freighters are operating and not sitting idle, your private sector should be making pretty efficient deliveries with the ships that they have. It seems to me that the problems under discussion are indicative of a weak private sector that cant fund enough ships. Resources are abundant to fill supply, but getting them moved in between is the problem; i.e. there arent enough ships to make all the required deliveries.

So I have a few questions to ask currierm:

- How solvent is your private sector? Do they have lots of capital, or are they constantly running on a shoestring budget? If they arent turning a profit then they wont have funds to buy more ships and sell you more goods.

- Are you at war? Pirate issues? Space monsters? Just a few freighters lost to attacks can severely set back supply even when there is plenty of demand. Add in a low private sector budget and the problem can snowball.

- Have any trade/defense treaties? If you have some they help buffer your needs and fill supply issues that your domestic private sector can't. However, they also open up profitable foreign markets to your private sector so that it can turn a greater profit and grow.

(in reply to Nibelung44)
Post #: 15
RE: out of control civil sector - 1/5/2011 11:24:12 AM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean

- Have any trade/defense treaties? If you have some they help buffer your needs and fill supply issues that your domestic private sector can't. However, they also open up profitable foreign markets to your private sector so that it can turn a greater profit and grow.


I have a question on this. Let's say I'm empire A and I have trade/defense pact with empire B. My understanding is that whatever goods I need from B are delivered by B's freighters and, conversly, whatever goods B needs are delivered by my freighters. So one gets the goods (and pays for them) and the other gets the credits and freighter activity.
Now, if the one with the freighter activity has a good economy having freighters servicing other empires will affect him in a positivie manner, so such a treaty benefits most the one with the more resources to offer correct?

If so and returning to this particular case, it would help you to get the resources you need but it will also lose you credits to your partner - who will not be partner forever ;).

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

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Post #: 16
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