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So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 5:49:26 AM

Sheytan

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I decided after much prodding from my brother to buy this thing, S&W M&P15 MOE. Anyone have one? And how do you like it? My brother is frankly a gun nut and picked up a 5.56 SCAR recently. I have a 40 cal pistol but frankly dont enjoy shooting it much, I think I should have gotten a 9MM instead. Ive fired my brotehrs glock which is 9MM and I can empty a clip on target it with it, with my P94 I have to recover from recoil and reaim, at any rate, I will trade it back in for credit, and get a glock.

If you have a S&W M&P15 MOE id love to hear your opinion on it. I will purchase it soon with a TA-33 series ACOG.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 7:19:04 AM

JudgeDredd

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Not allowed guns in the UK (without a licence) and I have no real desire to have one anyway...I gather it's part of your Constitution though, right? To bear arms and defend yourself or something?

I see alot of Americans talking about their weapons on various boards. I did used to shoot in the forces - an L1A1 SLR - it weighed a fair bit and had a kick like a mule as I recall. I remember the bruising (internal - not visible) of the muscles on my shoulder on my first day at the ranges!

I guess I must've got it out of my system, as I never had the urge to own one - but then like I said, it's not a common occurence to own a gun in the UK anyway. I did love the smell of cordite though!!

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 8:54:13 AM

Hertston

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Im curious. As JD said we have have a totally different culture regarding guns in the UK. What exactly do you do with guns like that? I can understand target rifles, and hunting rifles and shotguns, but surely assault rifles belong in the military?

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 9:24:11 AM

Fallschirmjager

Posts: 6793
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From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Im curious. As JD said we have have a totally different culture regarding guns in the UK. What exactly do you do with guns like that? I can understand target rifles, and hunting rifles and shotguns, but surely assault rifles belong in the military?

They are restricted to semi auto fire (obviously) and some states limit magazine size.
Believe it or not military style rifles account for very little gun crime in the US. Handguns account for over 90% of gun crimes.

To answer your question as to what they are used for, mostly plinking rifles. I never thought I would go for something like that but my brother got into the hobby. I went out with him for the first time and used a civilian version of the M4 and after 150 rounds had a lot of fun with it.

It is an expensive hobby though. $800 rifle and ammo is another $30-50 for a day of shooting.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 9:48:18 AM

JudgeDredd

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The thing is - I recall my time on the ranges in the Military...it was VERY regimented and under strict conditions. The thought of people wandering the country shooting at what they like scares the crap out of me!

Imagine, if you will, standing in a field and firing a high velocity rifle...that bullet, if it doesn't hit something, will travel quite far. For an ordinary civilian to determine whether it's safe to fire that weapon or not seems dangerous.

There are very, very strict guidlines for releasing ordinance on a weapon range in the military. Ranges were always facing out to sea or had high banks of sand behind the target zone and for good reason...they didn't want those bullets going off into "wherever".

quote:

They are restricted to semi auto fire (obviously) and some states limit magazine size.

Had to say that made me laugh a little bi. Surely the difference between semi-automatic and fully automatic is how fast you can move your trigger finger really...I mean a semi automatic is a gnats hair away from being a fully automatic - isn't it?

I have no idea what the gun violence stats are by the way...it could be, per head, the UK has a more dangerous gun culture than the US - I truly have no idea. But one thing I do hope - and that is we don't go down the route of everyone being entitled to have a weapon.

As far a gun culture goes, I'm quite happy with the UK laws staying as they are. And if they tried to change the law, I'd print it out and protest - allowing them to "prise it out of my cold dead hands"

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 10:49:17 AM

goodwoodrw

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Gotta just love those SLRs, so simple 1/2 0f d working parts. Love a buck for every round I've fired out one of them! Then a long come a Steyer more parts than Peter Sellers had characters

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 12:16:34 PM

JudgeDredd

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See if I can remember...

Gas plug, breech block and spring, piston and spring, firing pin....anything I left out?

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 12:58:58 PM

Sarge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston
Im curious. As JD said we have have a totally different culture regarding guns in the UK.

Your right,

It's probable a good thing for the UK not having firearm rights especially after seeing the outrage UK students had to the raise in university tuition fees. The madness in actually being asked to pay for your own education.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 3:04:16 PM

06 Maestro

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It wasn't too many years ago (20 maybe-forgot exactly) that gun ownership was an accepted right in GB also. Because of an incident in a school in Scotland (IIRC) where a fruitcake, who had no business being employed around children, killed a couple dozen people. So, of course, all normal citizens must disarm. I do mean the guy was not quite your "normal man"-and that was known by the authorities.

Anyways-I have many guns-some I have not fired in more than 10 years. Shotguns, rifles and handguns. I have one odd one that is a combo rifle/shotgun. I had my kids shooting by the time they were 5 years old. I have several handguns loaded (357's Mag, 40 Tanfolio) around the house-almost look forward to a home invasion situation-I won't be sued by the criminal after the fact...

Shooting has become more difficult here in Nevada. I used to be able to go to any gully out of town and shoot-sometimes with a dozen other shooters in the immediate vacinity-never had anything remotely unsafe. Responsible people look out for one another. I now have to go to a formal range complex. It is a nice facility (rather large too), but it now cost money to be able to do some target practice. Free ranges are more than 200 miles away.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 3:45:18 PM

JudgeDredd

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I don't remember that incident. And I don't remember people in the UK being allowed weapons. Maybe I lived a sheltered life and just didn't know it.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 3:54:28 PM

JudgeDredd

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Dunblane was the incident. I remember now after searching.

There's not a ban on guns here per se - I don't know what the gun laws are here, but I do know it's not common place to have guns and I'm pretty happy about that and long may it live. What are the gun laws in the US? Are you vetted at all?

Couple of interesting links (or not

)
Dunblane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre
and gun policitics in the UK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 3:58:49 PM

sabre1

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I lived in the country growing up on a farm. It was a typical day after work to go to the rifle rack choose my .22 rifle and go hunting ground squirrels and rabbits. I was allowed to do this since I was 10 years old. I would walk into the local hardware, and buy my own ammo. No one thought anything amiss to see a 10 year old with a rifle slung across his shoulder walking down a dusty old dirt road. People who have been raised properly with firearms have a healthy respect for them, just like any other tool.

It is a constitutional right, and I will leave it at that.

For those of you who know what I'm talking about, we have come a long way haven't we.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 3:59:30 PM

JudgeDredd

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Sorry Shetyan - it wasn't my intention to hijack your thread. I'll stop now.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 7:28:28 PM

Sheytan

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Yes the US constitution does indeed allow the citizen to bear arms. There is considerable debate regarding the intent of the wording however as it refers to militas AFAIK. However it has in the end to many people come to mean a citizen has the right to bear arms.

I live in Tucson Arizona. It is not only a major corridor for drug and illegal alien smuggling but I am also a hour or two south of Phoenix which if I recall correctly was recently named the kidnapping capitol of the world. In Tucson home invasions by armed robbers is getting worse as well.

The final straw for me to arm myself was something that happened here recently as well. Due to the state of the local budget schools and law enforcement are bieng cut. Further my experience has been that police dont magically appear to prevent crime, they are usually at a crime scene to chalk a body and investigate. You in the end must protect yourself.

I served in the US Infantry in the 80s and had the pleasure of firing a M1911 45 caliber pistol, a M16, a M60 and 50 Cal machinegun, as well as a LAW and Dragon missile. I also was introduced to, and allowed to fire all of the WARSAW pack small arms that were typically fielded at the time, AK47, RPK, etc.

BTW the L1A1 SLR looks like a fine solid rifle.

Regarding ownership, I understand the view is different in the UK. I personally always "enjoyed" shooting, I just never got around to collecting weapons like my brother. I have owned a 870 remington shotgun and a ruger 10/22 in the past but I sold those after I joined the military.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Not allowed guns in the UK (without a licence) and I have no real desire to have one anyway...I gather it's part of your Constitution though, right? To bear arms and defend yourself or something?

I see alot of Americans talking about their weapons on various boards. I did used to shoot in the forces - an L1A1 SLR - it weighed a fair bit and had a kick like a mule as I recall. I remember the bruising (internal - not visible) of the muscles on my shoulder on my first day at the ranges!

I guess I must've got it out of my system, as I never had the urge to own one - but then like I said, it's not a common occurence to own a gun in the UK anyway. I did love the smell of cordite though!!

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 7:31:56 PM

Sheytan

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The assault rifles or tactical rifles are not full auto. Only semi, you can with a dealer or collector license get full auto weapons AFAIK. What do you do with it? I have a twofold use, one is to defend my property, the second is I will spend alot more time with my brother, his son, and son in law to be at the range. Its a great way to get out and spend a afternoon, besides im a good shot!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Im curious. As JD said we have have a totally different culture regarding guns in the UK. What exactly do you do with guns like that? I can understand target rifles, and hunting rifles and shotguns, but surely assault rifles belong in the military?

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 7:35:48 PM

Sheytan

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Then you would be scared because we go to the Rincon mountians and every clearspace has people hanging out and shooting. People will bring target stands etc to shoot at, but it isnt a formal range, there are formal ranges here as well though if you prefer to shoot there.

Regarding the shooting areas, they are typically in the cusp of a ravine with the mountian as the backdrop, no one lives in that immediate area either and it is patrolled by park rangers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

The thing is - I recall my time on the ranges in the Military...it was VERY regimented and under strict conditions. The thought of people wandering the country shooting at what they like scares the crap out of me!

Imagine, if you will, standing in a field and firing a high velocity rifle...that bullet, if it doesn't hit something, will travel quite far. For an ordinary civilian to determine whether it's safe to fire that weapon or not seems dangerous.

There are very, very strict guidlines for releasing ordinance on a weapon range in the military. Ranges were always facing out to sea or had high banks of sand behind the target zone and for good reason...they didn't want those bullets going off into "wherever".

quote:

They are restricted to semi auto fire (obviously) and some states limit magazine size.

Had to say that made me laugh a little bi. Surely the difference between semi-automatic and fully automatic is how fast you can move your trigger finger really...I mean a semi automatic is a gnats hair away from being a fully automatic - isn't it?

I have no idea what the gun violence stats are by the way...it could be, per head, the UK has a more dangerous gun culture than the US - I truly have no idea. But one thing I do hope - and that is we don't go down the route of everyone being entitled to have a weapon.

As far a gun culture goes, I'm quite happy with the UK laws staying as they are. And if they tried to change the law, I'd print it out and protest - allowing them to "prise it out of my cold dead hands"

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 7:40:25 PM

Sheytan

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My Dad took me and my brother small game hunting soon as we could show him we were able to fire, maintain and operate safely the 20 guage single shot shotgun he had bought for us to share. First time I fired it it knocked me off my feet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

It wasn't too many years ago (20 maybe-forgot exactly) that gun ownership was an accepted right in GB also. Because of an incident in a school in Scotland (IIRC) where a fruitcake, who had no business being employed around children, killed a couple dozen people. So, of course, all normal citizens must disarm. I do mean the guy was not quite your "normal man"-and that was known by the authorities.

Anyways-I have many guns-some I have not fired in more than 10 years. Shotguns, rifles and handguns. I have one odd one that is a combo rifle/shotgun. I had my kids shooting by the time they were 5 years old. I have several handguns loaded (357's Mag, 40 Tanfolio) around the house-almost look forward to a home invasion situation-I won't be sued by the criminal after the fact...

Shooting has become more difficult here in Nevada. I used to be able to go to any gully out of town and shoot-sometimes with a dozen other shooters in the immediate vacinity-never had anything remotely unsafe. Responsible people look out for one another. I now have to go to a formal range complex. It is a nice facility (rather large too), but it now cost money to be able to do some target practice. Free ranges are more than 200 miles away.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 7:42:11 PM

Sheytan

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That was my experience in rural Wisconsin as well. When I owned my 10/22 ruger id go squirrel and wabbit hunting as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

I lived in the country growing up on a farm. It was a typical day after work to go to the rifle rack choose my .22 rifle and go hunting ground squirrels and rabbits. I was allowed to do this since I was 10 years old. I would walk into the local hardware, and buy my own ammo. No one thought anything amiss to see a 10 year old with a rifle slung across his shoulder walking down a dusty old dirt road. People who have been raised properly with firearms have a healthy respect for them, just like any other tool.

It is a constitutional right, and I will leave it at that.

For those of you who know what I'm talking about, we have come a long way haven't we.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 7:42:31 PM

Sheytan

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Not a problem! Good discussion here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Sorry Shetyan - it wasn't my intention to hijack your thread. I'll stop now.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 8:01:39 PM

DOCUP

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I also grew up learning how to handle different firearms. My father was a police officer, so at and early age I was taught more about gun safety than firing one. Once I proved to my father I wouldn't shoot anyone or myself I was allowed to start shooting. I enlisted in the infantry then became a medic and got to qual with the M4, M16, M60, SAW, 9mm berta and also AK series. Now I just have a 9 mm sig (love it), and hunting rifles, shotguns that were passed down to me. I would like to have an old M1 grand, but I do question the use of assualt style rifles and ap rounds. Only one thing these are good for and its not hunting. In West Virginia a 5.56 (223) round just dosent hack it in thick brush. I have seen many people with the AR series in the woods though.

doc

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 8:23:18 PM

Q.M

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Sigh. So many memories of lugging this thing around. Great weapon and you could always feel the superior fire power of the SLR when firing it. Different era back then, thats a given I suppose.

Lets see...L1A1, L2A1 (AR), L4A1 (Bren), L9A1 (browning pistol), L7A1 (SFMG), Mag 58 (SFMG), M16A1, M79, M60, Browning assualt shotgun, even the Vickers MMG in the SF role. Used them all back in the Light Infantry days of airmobile battalions. Airmobile meant you walked everywhere....

Highjack, sorry.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 8:30:38 PM

ezzler

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In the UK the gun laws generally followed the major wars.
After the Napoleonic wars there was an act to disarm the population as many former soldiers, now unemployed, had taken to roaming the country robbing people. Same after the first world war. The major firearms act was in 1968.
Firearms of any type, pistol, rifle etc are virtually unkown in the UK. A friend of mine is in the British rifle team otherwise I would know no-one who owns a weapon.
I have never seen a pistol in a house in the UK. hunting is very rare too. Deer hunting would be considered a heinous crime. Squirel shooting too would get very strange looks if it was announced in a bar.

The later firearms acts were knee jerk politician reactions to two massacres, Dunblane and Hungerford, but gun laws were already very strict and I doubt that having a semi or single shot weapon would have made a lot of difference.
There has been a recent random shooting spree in June when a gunman killed 12 and injured 11.

But generally in the UK gun deaths is ridiculously low by US standards. 42 deaths from firearms, including suicide, in 2008. In the USA it is around 11,000 from a population about 5 times larger than the UK.
The firearm ownership statistics would show an even greater discrepancy.

Its just cultural. In the UK guns are owned by farmers, a tiny minority of sporting shooters and then criminals.
You never ever see them Most people would not be able to tell you where a gun shop is located as they would never have seen one. UK police are not armed and carry no weapons except a tin stick and a can of pepper.

It is really strange when USA citizens talk of their gun collections. To a British resident it is just something {generally} we don't do.{Northern Ireland , at war for 30 years is slightly different}
I'm not knocking gun ownership or disparaging it. Just agreeing with Judge.
It is cultural.

It might be like us all telling you "oh we all drive AFV's. We don't have automobiles. Just AFV's! Its sooo much safer. Sure a few thousand pedestrians are squashed in parking accidents but thats the price of safety..and then we go on to describe our recreational tank collections!"

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 9:29:20 PM

V22 Osprey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ezz

In the UK the gun laws generally followed the major wars.
After the Napoleonic wars there was an act to disarm the population as many former soldiers, now unemployed, had taken to roaming the country robbing people. Same after the first world war. The major firearms act was in 1968.
Firearms of any type, pistol, rifle etc are virtually unkown in the UK. A friend of mine is in the British rifle team otherwise I would know no-one who owns a weapon.
I have never seen a pistol in a house in the UK. hunting is very rare too. Deer hunting would be considered a heinous crime. Squirel shooting too would get very strange looks if it was announced in a bar.

The later firearms acts were knee jerk politician reactions to two massacres, Dunblane and Hungerford, but gun laws were already very strict and I doubt that having a semi or single shot weapon would have made a lot of difference.
There has been a recent random shooting spree in June when a gunman killed 12 and injured 11.

But generally in the UK gun deaths is ridiculously low by US standards. 42 deaths from firearms, including suicide, in 2008. In the USA it is around 11,000 from a population about 5 times larger than the UK.
The firearm ownership statistics would show an even greater discrepancy.

Its just cultural. In the UK guns are owned by farmers, a tiny minority of sporting shooters and then criminals.
You never ever see them Most people would not be able to tell you where a gun shop is located as they would never have seen one. UK police are not armed and carry no weapons except a tin stick and a can of pepper.

It is really strange when USA citizens talk of their gun collections. To a British resident it is just something {generally} we don't do.{Northern Ireland , at war for 30 years is slightly different}
I'm not knocking gun ownership or disparaging it. Just agreeing with Judge.
It is cultural.

It might be like us all telling you "oh we all drive AFV's. We don't have automobiles. Just AFV's! Its sooo much safer. Sure a few thousand� pedestrians are squashed in parking accidents but thats the price of safety..and then we go on to describe our recreational tank collections!"

Yes, but the US is how many times bigger than UK, including land mass and population? I would also like to see cases in the UK which people get raped, mugged, or robbed even if in their own homes that could have been prevented if they had a gun to defend themselves.lets also factor in that most killings are by criminals. A criminal is going to carry a gun wheher it's against the law or not. A criminal is also going to kill whether he has a gun or not. The UK may get less firearm killings because there are less guns around, but that doesn't mean its safer.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 9:45:45 PM

Fallschirmjager

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

The thing is - I recall my time on the ranges in the Military...it was VERY regimented and under strict conditions. The thought of people wandering the country shooting at what they like scares the crap out of me!

Imagine, if you will, standing in a field and firing a high velocity rifle...that bullet, if it doesn't hit something, will travel quite far. For an ordinary civilian to determine whether it's safe to fire that weapon or not seems dangerous.

This almost never happens. Like I said, more than 9/10 gun related deaths occur from handguns and the vast majority of those occur from cheap legally purchased handguns who find their way to inner cities by illegal methods.

A death or injury from what you describe is exceedingly rare. Most larger cities make it harder to have a gun permit and damn near impossible to have a carry permit (Washington DC and NYC are good examples). They also make it illegal to fire a gun within city premises. Even the medium sized city I live in (about 300,000) makes it illegal to find a weapon outdoors, inside city limits unless you are at a range.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 10:31:22 PM

Zakhal

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I was very fond of my rk62 in army. I made top scores with it all the time and trainer called me a murderer when I made a shot ring the size of matchbox shooting from a knee 300m away.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/RK_62_76.jpg

After army I thought about making it a hobby to shoot at targets but after ten years I never got to doing it.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 11:04:14 PM

JudgeDredd

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Thanks for the clarification. Always the way in the world - having to prevent this or that because of a few dummies!

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 11:05:18 PM

L�tzow

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Wasn't hard to get a license here back in the 90's. Just took gun club membership, 6 months of regular training and a test of weaponry proficiency, for obtaining an official permission to acquire 2 longarms and 2 shortarms. I was an avid shooter for some time, but eventually gave in, due to lack of interest and high costs. Burned more than 100 bucks for rent and ammunition every week at range.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 11:14:12 PM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Im curious. As JD said we have have a totally different culture regarding guns in the UK. What exactly do you do with guns like that? I can understand target rifles, and hunting rifles and shotguns, but surely assault rifles belong in the military?

The US is a very immature country. When you're small, you like things that go BANG.

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RE: So what type of LONGARM do you use? - 12/23/2010 11:19:31 PM

warspite1

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Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

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ORIGINAL: Hertston

Im curious. As JD said we have have a totally different culture regarding guns in the UK. What exactly do you do with guns like that? I can understand target rifles, and hunting rifles and shotguns, but surely assault rifles belong in the military?

The US is a very immature country. When you're small, you like things that go BANG.