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I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 1:08:21 AM

Fenroo

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Joined: 6/23/2010
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Everyone here talks about how great DW is. And I read all these great posts about it. So I buy it. And I can't wrap my head around it. There's so much going on and I can't get a handle on it all...

Then an expansion comes out. And everyone here talks about how great it is. And I read all these great posts about it. So I buy it...

I am so weak...so weak...

I hate you all.

Post #: 1

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 1:59:13 AM

Spacecadet

Posts: 1780
Joined: 4/18/2010
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I think it took all of us quite a while to learn the in's and out's of this game - it's very deep.
I still learn new things about the game, and I've been playing for a long time.

Of course with all the changes/improvements Elliot keeps making, each patch makes it almost like a new game

(in reply to Fenroo)

Post #: 2

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 2:08:51 AM

Fenroo

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Joined: 6/23/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet

Of course with all the changes/improvements Elliot keeps making, each patch makes it almost like a new game

Oh nooessss!

I really am going to sit down this weekend and learn it. I know there's a great game in here once I get past the learning curve.

(in reply to Spacecadet)

Post #: 3

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 2:18:44 AM

Spacecadet

Posts: 1780
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

When I first got DW, my first game I tried to continue the game from the Tutorial . . . bad move.
There were so many alarms and things going on I didn't know what to do.

I suggest playing on a 100 Star map with just one or two other Races.
Put the Advisors on the suggest setting (middle option) except for Taxes, leave Taxes fully automated.

This should give you a much slower paced game and give you a chance to start figuring out what's going on.
Once you start grasping certain concepts you can make adjustments to the Advisor setting for that area.

This is how I did it.

Now with the Expansion it's a bit more involved with all the new Planetary Facilities added.
I would definitely disable the Shakturi option until you know what's going on.

< Message edited by Spacecadet -- 12/24/2010 2:19:18 AM >

(in reply to Fenroo)

Post #: 4

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 2:19:16 AM

Liquid5n0w

Posts: 26
Joined: 12/18/2010
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You really don't need to make an effort to learn it, just play with most automation on, then as you get each bit of the game, turn off that bit of the automation. It really helps to flatten the learning curve, and basically why the game doesn't need a difficulty slider. But I'd still like a choice of difficulty, but only if it isn't cheating AI.

(in reply to Fenroo)

Post #: 5

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 2:24:10 AM

Spacecadet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Liquid5n0w

You really don't need to make an effort to learn it, just play with most automation on, then as you get each bit of the game, turn off that bit of the automation. It really helps to flatten the learning curve, and basically why the game doesn't need a difficulty slider. But I'd still like a choice of difficulty, but only if it isn't cheating AI.

Well, the thing about DW is it's "cheating" options aren't really like other strategy games cheating.

In DW you can grant other Empires a more advanced starting setup sure, but take for example the Civilization series.
With Civ, upping the level gives them (AI) more of basically everything throughout the WHOLE game, not just starting setup.
Now that's what I call cheating, and it's not limited to Civ, most other strategy games follow the same formula.

(in reply to Liquid5n0w)

Post #: 6

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 2:29:46 AM

WoodMan

Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
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quote:

You really don't need to make an effort to learn it, just play with most automation on, then as you get each bit of the game, turn off that bit of the automation. It really helps to flatten the learning curve, and basically why the game doesn't need a difficulty slider.

This is how I learnt

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(in reply to Spacecadet)

Post #: 7

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 9:12:19 AM

Setekh

Posts: 178
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: Norfolk, England
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Play the tutorial 2 or 3 times to make sure you absorb it all, that's what I did and now I'm well under control

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Post #: 8

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 10:29:19 AM

forsaken1111

Posts: 281
Joined: 3/30/2010
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As I said in another thread, Distant Worlds is messy. It is messy, confusing, and massive... and that is why we love it. You will never be able to control everything in your empire, and trying to do so will make you go insane. My usual tactic is to leave all of my ships and fleets on automate as a police force.

When I need a fleet to perform a task like an attack, I run through the fleets to find the closest one with fuel (because on automate they worry about their own fuel) and send it out to perform the attack. Once it is done, I set it on automate again and it returns to the empire and repairs/refuels.

I leave fleet formation on auto too. I don't really care what is in each fleet, and the AI does a pretty good job of including troop transports and a good mix of ships in each one. I do design my own ships, and I control how many are built.

I normally leave construction ships on automate, sometimes intervening manually to tell them to build a research base or specific mining base which I need.

The hardest thing is learning to let go. You cannot effectively play Distant Worlds like you would play MOO2 once your empire gets to a certain size.

(in reply to Setekh)

Post #: 9

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 10:29:22 AM

alexalexuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

quote:

You really don't need to make an effort to learn it, just play with most automation on, then as you get each bit of the game, turn off that bit of the automation. It really helps to flatten the learning curve, and basically why the game doesn't need a difficulty slider.

This is how I learnt

this is how i learnt too

(in reply to WoodMan)

Post #: 10

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 12:05:00 PM

Zakhal

Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyv�skyl�, Finland
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I learned it quickly by starting with smallest galaxy and all automation OFF. If I needed somthing I just paused the game and found a way to do it. The worst thing you can do to learn the game is start in big galaxy and all auto. It will be hard to learn anything from that.

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Post #: 11

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 12:10:43 PM

ASHBERY76

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From: England
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Any Paradox game players find this hard? I never had much issue with the learning curve but maybe playing EU games helped.

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Post #: 12

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 12:18:57 PM

forsaken1111

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Any Paradox game players find this hard? I never had much issue with the learning curve but maybe playing EU games helped.

EU Games?

(in reply to ASHBERY76)

Post #: 13

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 1:13:35 PM

elmo3

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Europa Universalis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Universalis

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Post #: 14

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 3:43:47 PM

Fenroo

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Joined: 6/23/2010
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quote:

The hardest thing is learning to let go. You cannot effectively play Distant Worlds like you would play MOO2 once your empire gets to a certain size.

Ok well this is going to be my specific challenge. My favorite 4X game in space is Gal Civ 2, where everything is in the players control.

I intend to give DW a go this weekend.

(in reply to forsaken1111)

Post #: 15

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 3:44:51 PM

Fenroo

Posts: 11
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Any Paradox game players find this hard? I never had much issue with the learning curve but maybe playing EU games helped.

I'm a Paradox gamer, and have been since the original EU. I find this more challenging because there's so much more going on.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)

Post #: 16

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 4:03:09 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: forsaken1111

As I said in another thread, Distant Worlds is messy. It is messy, confusing, and massive... and that is why we love it. You will never be able to control everything in your empire, and trying to do so will make you go insane. My usual tactic is to leave all of my ships and fleets on automate as a police force.

When I need a fleet to perform a task like an attack, I run through the fleets to find the closest one with fuel (because on automate they worry about their own fuel) and send it out to perform the attack. Once it is done, I set it on automate again and it returns to the empire and repairs/refuels.

I leave fleet formation on auto too. I don't really care what is in each fleet, and the AI does a pretty good job of including troop transports and a good mix of ships in each one. I do design my own ships, and I control how many are built.

I normally leave construction ships on automate, sometimes intervening manually to tell them to build a research base or specific mining base which I need.

The hardest thing is learning to let go. You cannot effectively play Distant Worlds like you would play MOO2 once your empire gets to a certain size.

The part in bold is the best thing about DW. The fact that one man can not control it all, you must rely on your advisors. It makes you more of an Emperor, and less of the all knowing omnipotent being. This is the way it should be...as Emperor, I control key aspects of my empire, but leave the mundane stuff to my staff.

I leave automation on for everything except:

Ship Design, Ship building, colonizing and Diplomacy. The staff handles the rest...and the AI staff does a decent job of it.

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Post #: 17

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 4:23:48 PM

Wenla

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Joined: 4/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Any Paradox game players find this hard? I never had much issue with the learning curve but maybe playing EU games helped.

EU III and Vic II. Those are more difficult to learn (to play well) than DW. Vic II is worst (and most enjoyable) (IMHO of course).

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Post #: 18

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 4:29:07 PM

Fenroo

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Joined: 6/23/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wenla

EU III and Vic II. Those are more difficult to learn (to play well) than DW. Vic II is worst (and most enjoyable) (IMHO of course).

You think EU III is harder? Hmm.....

(in reply to Wenla)

Post #: 19

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 6:34:40 PM

NefariousKoel

Posts: 2930
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From: Murderous Missouri Scum
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Someone mentioned turning specific categories that you want to control on to 'AI suggests' which is a good idea.

That way the AI asks you to okay what they're going to do and you can see it making decisions to help get a feel of the flow.

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Post #: 20

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/24/2010 9:13:58 PM

Solus

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Joined: 12/10/2010
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There's been some research done on this sort of thing - how best to learn to perform complex tasks when you have many things to do.

It turns out that if you need to do many different tasks at once, it's better to learn them together rather than separately. And it's better to gain some skill with simple versions of the task before moving onto something more complicated (of course that's pretty obvious). You can learn them separately, but on average that's less efficient (though not necessarily less effective, it just might take longer).

What that means for DW, is that if you want to learn to micromanage everything, take on a few things at once, but keep it simple. That might mean playing in a small galaxy with few enemies. But turn off automation on everything you want to learn to manage yourself. And play the start a few times till it gets easier, then progress to the mid- and end-game. Of course that's kinda idealistic; not many people want to play that way, and that's fine too. It can be really challenging to try to learn everything at once, and that might make you give up in frustration. So DW is fantastic in that it can give you a degree of control by offering suggestions - you still get to learn what to do, but without having to figure it all out for yourself.

As for me, I like jumping right in and getting my butt kicked a few times as I learn from my mistakes.

(in reply to NefariousKoel)

Post #: 21

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/25/2010 7:44:50 AM

Wenla

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Joined: 4/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fenris99

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wenla

EU III and Vic II. Those are more difficult to learn (to play well) than DW. Vic II is worst (and most enjoyable) (IMHO of course).

You think EU III is harder? Hmm.....

No. Vic II is harder. Sorry if I worded it wrong way.

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Post #: 22

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/25/2010 5:28:01 PM

sabre1

Posts: 1928
Joined: 8/15/2001
From: CA
Status: offline

Fenris99,

Don't feel to bad, I'm right there with you. I'm going to give it a serious try today, after everyone goes home.

(in reply to Wenla)

Post #: 23

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/26/2010 11:07:29 AM

ilovestrategy

Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline

I'm gave it another shot today. Good thing I read this thread!

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Post #: 24

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/26/2010 3:43:16 PM

the1sean

Posts: 854
Joined: 5/11/2010
From: Texas, USA
Status: offline

A big deal for me was setting the Advisors to "suggest". That way you can get a feel for how the AI plays the games, seeing how they might react in certain situations. I still automate troop recruitment, taxes, and ship design in the early game. Another great tool is the Empire Policy screen, you can shape how the AI runs things for you

(in reply to ilovestrategy)

Post #: 25

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/27/2010 11:57:01 PM

Fenroo

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Joined: 6/23/2010
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Ok, so some follow up. I played for several hours on sunday. I basically set everything possible to "suggest", so I could get a feel for what the AI wanted to do and see how it was planning. I only got involved when I deemed it necessary. For example, one planet had some rare product, I forgot what. So I obviously built a mine. But I also built a gas mine for refueling in the system and a batch of defensive bases as well. There's a game here, all right.

I was...entertained. Let's see where this goes.

(in reply to the1sean)

Post #: 26

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/28/2010 12:07:52 AM

forsaken1111

Posts: 281
Joined: 3/30/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fenris99

Ok, so some follow up. I played for several hours on sunday. I basically set everything possible to "suggest", so I could get a feel for what the AI wanted to do and see how it was planning. I only got involved when I deemed it necessary. For example, one planet had some rare product, I forgot what. So I obviously built a mine. But I also built a gas mine for refueling in the system and a batch of defensive bases as well. There's a game here, all right.

I was...entertained. Let's see where this goes.

That is what I like best about this game. You can get involved with the empire to whatever degree you want, and automate the rest. You could look after a single fleet of the empire, worrying only about one front of the war, or you could focus only on spy missions and agents. It's up to you.

(in reply to Fenroo)

Post #: 27

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/28/2010 1:41:42 AM

omicron

Posts: 3
Joined: 11/30/2010
Status: offline

The same thing happened to me. The AI said to build something and I clicked okay. The problem is I like to build ships and deploy them like an armchair general but this game is so overwhelming. Space Empires IV is basic math compared to this advance intergration calculus. I'll continue to try to play.

(in reply to forsaken1111)

Post #: 28

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/28/2010 10:13:16 PM

Gargoil

Posts: 389
Joined: 1/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: forsaken1111
EU Games?

I got my wife to get me DW expansion for that and this, lol. What does that mean? The Europe Universalis III "Divine Wind" expansion and the "Distant Worlds" RotS exansion. So DW in both cases.

I play a lot of Matrix game and Paradox games. From Matrix - Distant Worlds, War in the Pacific:AE, Forge of Freedom, Birth of America, World at War, and some of the operational games (like Battles in Normandy). Paradox its Hearts of Iron and Europe Universalis.

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Post #: 29

RE: I am so weak...so weak - 12/28/2010 11:50:42 PM

nammafia

Posts: 102
Joined: 3/5/2010
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Play with just another empire. Set initial empire location at edge of galaxy. Set normal pirate, few monster. AI control troop & agent recruitment and tax and exploration. Suggest everything else. Manually control your fleets. Leave single ship automated. Watch your money. You should be able to play it and don't expect to be good right away.

(in reply to Fenroo)

Post #: 30