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Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/3/2011 3:11:59 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		OK, I buy wargames to play vs humans (multiplayer, PBEM, direct play, whatever). I use AI only for training.

Having said that, and having tried couple smaller scenarios in Slitherine PBEM here are some of my comments.

This new Slitherine system is HUGE improvement over anything we used before. Kudos to Slith guys for introducing this in the world of turn based wargaming, it was long overdue. Kudos to Matrix for using this system even in non-Slitherine games like WITE. Ultimately I would like to see this retrofitted to older Matrix titles thru patches, if that's feasible.

Of course, the system could use LOTS of improvements, that are, I hope, forthcoming, here are some suggestions/wishes from a longtime PBEM veteran of many Matrix and 2by3 titles.

1. Make the games more manageable. I have only a couple games going or finished and it's already confusing. When the game ends, make it possible to transfer the final save to player local PC for archiving, so as to be able to delete the finished game from the server. As I see, finished games stay on the server, and I shudder at the thought of having dozens of them listed all the time.

2. Give us ability to make "snapshots" without ruining security. Ie. make it possible to save situation on the local disk, in a way that counters cannot be moved or exploited. I love to open maps in my PBEMs to analyse the situation, even after I send the turn to my opponent. This snapshot tool would help anaylse games after they are over, making screenshots, doing AARs etc.

3. Ability to send messages along with files was mentioned many times.

4. Slitherine, apparently, tracks the number of loads on each file, and as the Slith guy said "has zero tolerance for cheating". This is nice to hear, but what exactly does that mean? Personally I'd like to see the re-load numbers myself.

5. 4 + 2 combined, I like to open the file as soon as I receive it, to glance over the situation, even though I might not have time to reply immediatelly. So, we need a "snapshot" feature, to be able to open the file without ability to move, and without counting it as "cheating".

...add more suggestions and discuss.


Post #: 1
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/3/2011 1:51:26 PM   
XAAL.


Posts: 25
Joined: 4/15/2002
From: Earth.
Status: offline 		+1.

for point 5., you can still open the game and save it to finish the same turn later. This is not counted as a "cheat".

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 2
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/3/2011 2:38:45 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: XAAL.

+1.

for point 5., you can still open the game and save it to finish the same turn later. This is not counted as a "cheat".


OK so, open + glance over the map + close game = BAD

Open + glance over the map + SAVE + close game = GOOD

Am I correct?

Anyway, as I presume this game will be PBEM hit once it's patched couple times, I think this whole multiplayer segment needs some love from the devs...

(in reply to XAAL.)
Post #: 3
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/3/2011 3:13:30 PM   
XAAL.


Posts: 25
Joined: 4/15/2002
From: Earth.
Status: offline 		Yes, this is correct, I have done that several times without problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

Open + glance over the map + SAVE + close game = GOOD

Am I correct?


(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 4
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/3/2011 5:12:35 PM   
Skanvak

 

Posts: 577
Joined: 4/3/2005
Status: offline 		Nice suggestion,

I would had :
_ need management for multiplayer on same side during PBEM.


_____________________________


Best regards

Skanvak

(in reply to XAAL.)
Post #: 5
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/3/2011 5:37:14 PM   
jzz001

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 12/5/2010
Status: offline 		+1.

Very good suggestion,

I'd like to see the re-load numbers myself too.

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 6
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/3/2011 5:59:32 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		FYI, there have been 6 games completed on the server, and there are 83 current games going (although I'd guess 20-30 of these are not active). Several new games are starting every day. It's nice to be able to track the number of games being played. It seems to be fairly easy to get a game started if you want to play. Karl Lean is the programmer that implemented the Slitherine Server system in WitE. I'm sure Karl will read this thread and consider improving the Multiplayer system over time where possible.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to jzz001)
Post #: 7
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/3/2011 6:08:29 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Thanks Joel that would be great.

At one time I had 6 WITP PBEMs going in parallel, and having 3-4 was pretty normal, so I assume I'd start at least half a dozen here once the code stabilizes.

Game is much much more manageable than WITP, while being equally detailed. I think we will see far more PBEMs going after couple patches, and some are probably being played in the old fashioned way (sending files back and forth without using Slitherine server).

Slitherine method is really great, though, very fun to use, we just need more manageability options

Another thing that would be nice to see is some sort of web interface on the Slitherine server, so we see info about the people we play with (in as much as they want to disclose). For instance, seeing my opponent's e-mail would allow me to inform him about being unable to return moves for couple days etc.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 8
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/3/2011 6:10:56 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		One thing that some may not realize is that the user login name used for Multiplayer is the same as the user login on the Slitherine forums. So you can contact your opponent via the Slitherine forum if you want to. Not as easy as it should be, but I wanted to point it out.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 9
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/8/2011 2:51:07 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		I'd like to bump this old thread, and add another multiplayer suggestion.

Give us the ability to take other people's games over, ie for the people who can't continue the game, to transfer it to another player. As large campaign games progress this will be more and more important.

Obviously this feature would require both players (the one leaving the game, and the one stepping in) to agree before transfer. Probably the agreement from the third guy (the opponent) would also be needed.

In WITP I had some very fun games after I took over one side from a player who could not continue for one reason or another. I had to deal with screwed up situations other people created, but that was part of the fun. Like taking over OKH or Stavka from somebody else.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 10
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/8/2011 3:01:48 PM   
raizer

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline 		I wish there was a resign feature so when a game is out of hand, the player can quit and the other player get credited with the victory

I know this is  a pipe dream, but over at the HPS games, we play a lot of team games 2v2 3v3 etc.  Different people in charge of armies/fronts.  If there was a way that 2 people could play the same side-have access to the same file on the server, using a password, etc, do their moves and send it off to the other team, I would like that as it would cut down on the admin while at the same time factor in cooperation between the people on the same side.

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 11
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/8/2011 6:08:22 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		Some good sugestions here.
Like these ideas:
"Personally I'd like to see the re-load numbers myself."
"Another thing that would be nice to see is some sort of web interface on the Slitherine server, so we see info about the people we play with"
"Give us the ability to take other people's games over"

The first and second of these could be combined with an "integrity rating" which would publicly display the percentage of a player's reloads.You could also have an option to "forgive" an opponent's reload if you trust them or they explain themselves to you.

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 12
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/8/2011 6:41:31 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		I usually open a turn to look at the situation and the battles and close it again, prior to opening it again to actually play it at a different time, so if reloads are checked, there should be some system in place that tracks whether, say, combat took place. I guess I could just save the turn after opening it, but as I haven't actually done anything, that seems somewhat pointless.

_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to timmyab)
Post #: 13
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/8/2011 6:56:32 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

I usually open a turn to look at the situation and the battles and close it again, prior to opening it again to actually play it at a different time, so if reloads are checked, there should be some system in place that tracks whether, say, combat took place. I guess I could just save the turn after opening it, but as I haven't actually done anything, that seems somewhat pointless.


I agree, and said something along that line in my first post - we need an option to just open a turn without moving, to check the situation.

Also, in long campaigns there will be situations when someone goes on a vacation or business trip. It would be nice to be able to open the file, without moving or attacking, just to look at the map and plan the next moves, EVEN if it's another guy's turn.

All my suggestions stem from extensive experience playing WITP PBEM. Slitherine system is huge step forward for all us PBEM lovers, but still needs more improvements.

It would be nice to hear a word or two from someone at Slitherine or whoever is working on a multiplayer part of the game in this thread....

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 14
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/8/2011 7:12:10 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
I guess I could just save the turn after opening it, but as I haven't actually done anything, that seems somewhat pointless.

It's not pointless.You know you haven't done anything but the server doesn't.Saving tells the server that nothing has been moved or altered.

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 15
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/8/2011 7:21:39 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		If open the turn, don't save, close the turn and open it again, I've loaded it twice.
If I open the turn, save, close the turn and open it again, I've also loaded it twice and it might seem more dodgy as I saved it.

_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to timmyab)
Post #: 16
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/8/2011 7:24:15 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

If open the turn, don't save, close the turn and open it again, I've loaded it twice.
If I open the turn, save, close the turn and open it again, I've also loaded it twice and it might seem more dodgy as I saved it.


Saving a turn clears you from "dodginess", it's only the opening of the SAME savefile more than once that's suspicious.

Anyhow, the system is fine, but it definitely needs more work, more user friendliness and more options.... that's why I started this thread.

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 17
RE: Multiplayer comments & suggestions - 1/8/2011 7:31:16 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Unless I'm mistaken, the system doesn't automatically save your turn when you exit, so when you save, that save is your starting point when you reopen it. As such, I prefer to play turns in one go, although that isn't always possible.

_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 18
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