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History question - 1/6/2011 5:37:42 PM

Mynok

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I loaded up the 1942 campaign game just for kicks to see where the historical front line was for spring 1942.

What on earth is going on up there around Velikye Luki? All those units gone static in that almost-pocket? Makes no sense to me.

What happened historically to that bulge? Did the Germans retreat out of it?

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RE: History question - 1/6/2011 5:42:39 PM

Oleg Mastruko

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Velikye Luki - Stalingrad of the North. Simultaneously with the Stalingrad operation in late 42 Soviets reduced the pocket around VL capturing I don't know how much exactly (but quite a lot) of Germans. The whole operations was overshadowed by much bigger encirclement around Stalingrad but it is interesting on it's own merit. Google it

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RE: History question - 1/6/2011 5:43:38 PM

Terminus

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The Germans did not withdraw, no. The city was retaken by the Red Army in a battle lasting from mid-November of 1942 to mid-January 1943, the Soviets losing between 2 and 4 times as many casualties as the Germans.

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RE: History question - 1/6/2011 5:44:23 PM

Redmarkus5

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There was a good PC war game out there some years ago that focused on this battle. I can't remember the publisher...

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RE: History question - 1/6/2011 5:45:17 PM

Terminus

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That was the V for Victory series by 360 Pacific.

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RE: History question - 1/6/2011 5:46:52 PM

Terminus

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As for the situation at the beginning of 1942, this was a combination of losses suffered during the Soviet counteroffensive and Hitler's "hold at all costs" order. Velikie Luki was the shoulder of the Rzhev salient, later the site of the epic failure that was Zhukov's Operation Mars.

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RE: History question - 1/6/2011 5:54:56 PM

Redmarkus5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

That was the V for Victory series by 360 Pacific.

Ah, yes - Atomic games, 1992. Amazing how long this genre has been around for the PC. I loved that game, even though they never created the expansions I expected... It probably looks awful now, especially alongside WiTE. Anyone got any screenies?

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RE: History question - 1/6/2011 5:58:51 PM

Mynok

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After some further googling, I think the almost-pocket that struck me is actually the Demyansk pocket.

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RE: History question - 1/6/2011 6:45:13 PM

Redmarkus5

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IIRC that pocket withstood concerted Soviet attacks all through the winter of '41/42

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RE: History question - 1/6/2011 7:01:11 PM

Terminus

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Correct, and it was successfully relieved, after being supplied by air drop. This was a determining factor in Hitler letting the Luftwaffe attempt the same feat at Stalingrad, despite the massive difference in troop strength and distance.

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RE: History question - 1/6/2011 7:37:58 PM

Klydon

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The "V for Victory" series was excellent for its time in terms of graphics, etc but the AI was not good at all, although I think this was the last game in the series and it had the best AI of the lot.

I think the GDW board game "White Death" was probably the first one out on the topic. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13016/white-death

The pocket the OP is probably looking at is the Demyansk pocket. Some German units were cut off/nearly cut off during the winter counter offensive and of course, Hitler had the "hold at all costs" deal going. This pocket was supplied by air most of the winter and the Russians were unable to break it. The success of this led directly to the Stalingrad debacle of "being supplied by air". Big difference trying to supply a couple of divisions near the front with no interference and trying to supply 20 divisions over enemy territory defended by fighters.

The Germans eventually withdrew from the pocket in the Spring of 42.

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Post #: 11