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RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission

 
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RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/31/2010 12:39:18 PM   
Zdar

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 12/31/2010
Status: offline 		I am happy to have discovered Panzer Command: Ostfront yesterday.
As a big fan of the CM1x series (especially BB) i was thrilled by the announcement of the Normandy addition - thrilled until I revisited battlefronts forums that is, I was considering to registrer but as I saw how the other WEGO-people got treated by the staff and beta-fanboys i opted not to.

Anyways, our little CM-group (consisting of 4 people) will follow this forum on the news of Ostfront. And hopfully we will by it all four of us.
I sincerely hope this will be a good game. I am also very pleased with the good tone and respectful response to suggestions on this forum (I've browsed to a *lot* of threads now).

< Message edited by Zdar -- 12/31/2010 1:04:53 PM >

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 61
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/31/2010 1:13:09 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Thanks for posting your thoughts. We are working on demo scenarios now so that people can try it if they have never played PC before.

PC has always played differently than CMx1. We like the difference but realize that not everyone will.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Zdar)
Post #: 62
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/31/2010 2:12:18 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		While there is a difference between PC and CM there are many similarities as well. Being a CMx1 gamer myself I can appreciate both games.

As to the tone of suggestions and feedback on this forum, you guys will be the ones buying the game. Why not put in the features you want to see if we can get them there? It just makes sense to take as much feedback as we can get when trying to create a game that will be sold to the ones giving the suggestions.

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 12/31/2010 2:14:21 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 63
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/31/2010 4:54:21 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zdar

I am happy to have discovered Panzer Command: Ostfront yesterday.
As a big fan of the CM1x series (especially BB) i was thrilled by the announcement of the Normandy addition - thrilled until I revisited battlefronts forums that is, I was considering to registrer but as I saw how the other WEGO-people got treated by the staff and beta-fanboys i opted not to.

Anyways, our little CM-group (consisting of 4 people) will follow this forum on the news of Ostfront. And hopfully we will by it all four of us.
I sincerely hope this will be a good game. I am also very pleased with the good tone and respectful response to suggestions on this forum (I've browsed to a *lot* of threads now).


I suspect that I'm one of a handful of people who have, thus far, followed and purchased both families of games. They are what they are. Frankly, it was easier for me to learn CMSF than PzC because I didn't have to "unlearn" the mechanics of CM1 in the former's case (as they are so obviously and profoundly different). Contrast CM1 with the PzC demo, and I think that you'll understand what I mean. For that matter, more than one CM1 fan showed up at the Matrix forums insisting that something was amiss with PzC, having not bothered to RTM! In some cases, when they finally understood that the mechanics were different, they insisted that PzC be pounded into CM1.

Combat Mission Shock Force/Marines/British and Panzer Command Operation Winter Storm/Kharkov are still installed the computer that I'm composing this email on.




_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

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Post #: 64
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/1/2011 3:13:10 AM   
ankh morpork

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 12/31/2010
Status: offline
quote:

It would be good to have in PC as well. Once PCO is out and you guys get to play with it for awhile then we can do the next wishlist. There should be some interesting things on that wishlist.



Love this reply! This is exactly how all game producers should reason!

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 65
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/3/2011 8:17:11 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Since CM:BN has been announced we might as well discuss it. We don't know what will be over there until it's out. I can tell you what we have over here.
Traditional WEGO gameplay
Optional 40:40 or 60 second turns
Serial number activation offline
Automated MP file sharing using outside file share of your choice
Low system requirements
Flamethrowers
Aircraft
Off board assets and air stats in end game screen
Lots of East Front units
Open modding using freeware and low cost software
Full editing tools
Matrix community and support
2 Steves
Tank Riders

We don't have
Deformable terrain
High end graphics
Real time with forced pause for WEGO
Action spots
Building/Bridge damage and destruction
Stars and moon
TCP/IP but with automatic online file sharing it is just about as fast
Anti Air units
Flames (on the ground or started by FTs or explosions)


I forgot cows.

And orders delays. And they can be turned off in the editor. Or swapped around.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 66
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/3/2011 8:24:24 PM   
ankh morpork

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 12/31/2010
Status: offline 		But anti air unites/Flames/ Building Bridge damage and destruction can be introduced later on :)


2 steves :D haha

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 67
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/3/2011 8:35:34 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Not in this version. The engine wasn't designed for it.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to ankh morpork)
Post #: 68
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/3/2011 8:49:27 PM   
ankh morpork

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 12/31/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Not in this version. The engine wasn't designed for it.


Fair enough - but engines can evolve over time ;) anyway, I hope the future brings it to us. Who knows!? ;)

Atm im happy with the things we seem to get in PZO!

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 69
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 9:45:26 AM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		I've also just discovered this upcoming game. I did play the Winterstorm demo, but wasn't very impressed, mainly because I'm used to CMBB. But after spending several hours reading reviews, forum information and product information, I'm really curious now about Osfront. It is impressive to see the makers of this game listened well to the users and improved this game a lot. The fact that it can be easily modded is also very attractive. The vehicles (for instance the Pz IV and the Marder-series) and the infantry don't look great, I hope that will be solved by modders soon. On the other hand I'm impressed by the map editor and the buildings available.

The main reason why I will buy this game after release is the clear willingness of the makers to keep improving it and listen to the suggestions of the community.

About the size. So the maximum for a map is 2000m? And what is the maximum number of units for a battle? And can somebody say something more about close combat between infantry?



< Message edited by Jacko -- 1/9/2011 10:15:13 AM >

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Post #: 70
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 11:53:30 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Close combat is very abstract as far as animation. Same shooting animation with grenade tossing added. Nothing exciting.

There is no limit on the number of units on the map but you will reach a point where your computer can't handle it. How may units do you want?

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Jacko)
Post #: 71
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 12:00:42 PM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Well, I would prefer at least several infantry companies and a tank company for each side, apart from reinforcements. And what about the map size, Junk, is the capability of one's pc also the limit?

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Post #: 72
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 12:15:43 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Currently a modest single core can use a 2k map. The problem becomes how many trees and other objects. We are working on ways to put low drain trees in areas that are just for looks and out of the play area.

Multicore with 4g ram is going to be better.

A battalion of troops with support and 20 or so AFVs for each side is not a problem.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Jacko)
Post #: 73
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 12:30:52 PM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		And what about the buildings? Will there be factories?

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Post #: 74
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 12:39:24 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Not like CMBB. Squads mount and unmount buildings and AFVs. Buildings have a mount point or points. If a building has more than one floor, the squad automatically mounts to the top floor.

Do not expect the shootouts in large buildings like CM.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Jacko)
Post #: 75
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 12:56:13 PM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		I'm not impressed with the way CMBB handles close combat or factory fighting for that matter. My hope is that this game will go on, where CMBB stopped. I don't expect it to be perfect right away, but if I look at the potential of this game, the map editor, an editor to add vehicles, the ability to adjust data etc. etc, in combination with how you guys have listened to your adience, than I really think this could be something special. Sorry about comparing this game to CMBB, it is more meant to be a compliment. And I think this game is different, but by no means inferior.

I'm looking forward to it. Hope it won't take too long.

< Message edited by Jacko -- 1/9/2011 1:00:48 PM >

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Post #: 76
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 1:35:24 PM   
Mobius


Posts: 10339
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacko

And what about the buildings? Will there be factories?

You can have factories but they have to be built of small building modules or ruin terrain. Each module could hold up to two squads. The modules don't allow tanks to enter however they can be many stories high. An alternative to modules is you can make terrain 'ruins'. This gives cover similar to a building. This allows as many infantry units as you want and vehicles to enter it but is only on the ground level.

We do have a very large railway station made of 20 some modules.

(in reply to Jacko)
Post #: 77
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 2:36:49 PM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Sounds good. Can units dig in or is the time scope to short for that?

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Post #: 78
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 2:49:12 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		No

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Jacko)
Post #: 79
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 4:25:16 PM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Well, I can't wait for the release. I think I'm going to download the demo of the first games, to get familiair with the handling. Great job, guys.

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Post #: 80
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 5:16:31 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		That old demo is way out of date. Even PCK is hard for us to play now. Don't let it turn you off.

We are trying to get the PCO demo out before we finalize, hopefully soon.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Jacko)
Post #: 81
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 5:41:47 PM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Okay, I won't bother then, but wait for the new demo. Thanks.

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Post #: 82
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 5:44:55 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		If you want to just for kicks, go ahead. Just don't judge the game by the OWS demo.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Jacko)
Post #: 83
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 7:15:17 PM   
CheerfullyInsane

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 12/5/2010
From: Birkerod, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Since CM:BN has been announced we might as well discuss it. We don't know what will be over there until it's out. I can tell you what we have over here.
Traditional WEGO gameplay
Optional 40:40 or 60 second turns
Serial number activation offline
Automated MP file sharing using outside file share of your choice
Low system requirements
Flamethrowers
Aircraft
Off board assets and air stats in end game screen
Lots of East Front units
Open modding using freeware and low cost software
Full editing tools
Matrix community and support
2 Steves
Tank Riders

We don't have
Deformable terrain
High end graphics
Real time with forced pause for WEGO
Action spots
Building/Bridge damage and destruction
Stars and moon
TCP/IP but with automatic online file sharing it is just about as fast
Anti Air units
Flames (on the ground or started by FTs or explosions)


Does that signify the same MP system (or something like it) as used in Field of Glory and War in the East?!
If so, kudos and praise be to (insert deity of choice here)!
Because that system is simply briliant.
(I'd like to say it f**king rules, but I'm really too old for that sort of colloquialism)

Lars

_____________________________

"Something is always wrong, Baldrick. The fact that I'm not a millionaire aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle"
- Edmund Blackadder

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 84
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/9/2011 7:31:39 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		It is similar. I have BBC BA and I really like how it works. They only difference is that Matrix didn't have a server system like Slitherine's when this was done and the choice of any file share system seemed better than being tied to a company server in the future.

I wonder if you get banned from a forum will you be able to connect to the MP servers? Of course if you are a cheat you will be blocked from those servers.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to CheerfullyInsane)
Post #: 85
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/10/2011 4:53:40 PM   
eniced73

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline 		First - You guys are dead on pertaining to the comments of the ease of working with the Matrix crew. They listen. I am working with the beta team and almost everything thrown at them is either implemented in another build or taken into consideration for the next game engine. Kudos.

quote:

I am happy to have discovered Panzer Command: Ostfront yesterday.
As a big fan of the CM1x series (especially BB) i was thrilled by the announcement of the Normandy addition - thrilled until I revisited battlefronts forums that is, I was considering to registrer but as I saw how the other WEGO-people got treated by the staff and beta-fanboys i opted not to.

Zdar is right on here. I dont want to turn this into a bashing thread but I recently (within the last week) tried to have a civilized discussion on a CMBN thread and it turned into a circus. Not only did one so called 'fanboy' try to tell me my opinion was wrong but another that actually had a 'rank' also joined the fray. How can I stack up against that? I decided to leave the discussion in a civilized manner eventhough 95% fo the posters on that thread agreed with me). Not sure how all those heads fit in one room? Bottom line is if you want to discuss this game and shoot off some of your opinions on what should be included you are at the right place. Sorry if that was bad form but I still had some things pent up that I did not want to vent elsewhere.

One thing you guys should understand is that this is a mega update and not a new engine. I sort of entered into it thinking 'why didn't they do this or redo that' until I played it and realized it is a patch. But let me tell you from the original game up to what they have now is impressive. I am not going to list it all but I am sure one of them already posted the addition list somewhere. I really did not care for the orders system compared to the CM games but with a little tweaking of the .xml files you can get around this. I believe this is going to change in PC4 though! Also the simplicity of modding the game is great. I have very limited knowledge with modding programs such as 'fragmotion' and was able to mess around and tweak some things that I wanted to. An experienced person could have a field day with this. Lastly I got to mention the map creator / editor. Very nice. I was able to mess around and import a height map of my hometown and put together a simple map in no time.

As you who have played this before know the graphics are not as nice as the pics CMBN is showing but the additional material and tweaks make up for that.

I play all the CM games, the TOW series, SPWAW, and PC series. I also frequently visit the BF forum, WEBOB, WAW, and this site.

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Post #: 86
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/11/2011 5:11:22 AM   
Enigma6584

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 9/23/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eniced73

quote:

I am happy to have discovered Panzer Command: Ostfront yesterday.
As a big fan of the CM1x series (especially BB) i was thrilled by the announcement of the Normandy addition - thrilled until I revisited battlefronts forums that is, I was considering to registrer but as I saw how the other WEGO-people got treated by the staff and beta-fanboys i opted not to.

Zdar is right on here. I dont want to turn this into a bashing thread but I recently (within the last week) tried to have a civilized discussion on a CMBN thread and it turned into a circus. Not only did one so called 'fanboy' try to tell me my opinion was wrong but another that actually had a 'rank' also joined the fray. How can I stack up against that? I decided to leave the discussion in a civilized manner eventhough 95% fo the posters on that thread agreed with me). Not sure how all those heads fit in one room? Bottom line is if you want to discuss this game and shoot off some of your opinions on what should be included you are at the right place. Sorry if that was bad form but I still had some things pent up that I did not want to vent elsewhere.



Don't want to turn it into a bashing thread huh... Instead of bad mouthing the developers and forum members over at BF in here, why don't you post the link to the thread where you say you were ganged up on. That way the rest of us can read it over and decide for ourselves whether you've got some credibility or whether your full of it.

(in reply to eniced73)
Post #: 87
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/11/2011 5:32:18 AM   
eniced73

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline 		RC - you are somewhat right. I did not need to dump my garbage from one forum to another. Not worth it to mention here just search the name.

Just wanted to make the point that the people here running the show are top notch. I went about expressing this the wrong way. My apologies to you guys.

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Post #: 88
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/11/2011 5:36:23 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacko

Well, I would prefer at least several infantry companies and a tank company for each side, apart from reinforcements. And what about the map size, Junk, is the capability of one's pc also the limit?



There is a 5000 point maximum. A Veteran Panther G Late costs 100 points. A 1945 Veteran PG Squad costs 14. So take the number of units you can put on the map from there.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Jacko)
Post #: 89
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 1/11/2011 6:00:11 PM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Not bad, not bad at all. Personally I like company sized battles best. I hope you will make some for this game too, Mad Russian, like you did for CMBB. KC Lt.Neumeyer is still my all time favorite.

I really hope this game will attract some talented modders, who can add a HUGE variety of vehicles in the years to come. Personally I would like to have all of these...

http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/1-Vehicles/Axis/1-Germany/German-Armor.htm

But seriously, I'm very impressed people can make their own vehicles for this game. If I recall how CMBO and CMBB looked at the beginning I foresee a great future for PCO.

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Post #: 90
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