Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Strategic bombing wasn't really tested after the latest air changes, we only stumbled into how broken it was recently when debating whether factories should indeed automatically "repair" damage above 50 when moved by rail in their entirety.

First the air war was broken due to too many losses, now it's broken because there are hardly any. Keep in mind that the air model has been set in stone for a long time and the focus was on other parts of the game. People like Pavel were not happy with it, but little could be done pre-release due to it being set in stone early on. It will get better over time, although I agree that it's frustrating in a large number of ways.

As to how strategic bombing is broken: CAP doesn't really seem to do much of anything currently, neither does AA fire and the damage to factories is way too high. In 1941, bombing Ploesti has only a small effect on the Axis fuel situation, by the way, that was tested, but the effects will probably increase over time and as fuel becomes more of a problem for the Axis.

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ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I didn't think about the Strategic Bombing aspect; that would make it more of a must-take.

Waiting until 1942 doesn't seem like a great idea either, because a couple Rifle Corps dug-in behind lvl 4 forts are just about impossible to beat back, leaving the Soviets permanently there.

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ORIGINAL: bwheatley

It's very frustrating that they released the game knowing it's broken. Who'd want to do any strategic air stuff?? Nobody let's just leave it busted. Yes i'm only venting yes the game is amazing. But i paid my almost $100 bucks and would gladly do it again but nobody should deny that it is frustrating. At least compared to paradox the game came out 95% functional and manual accurate. :)

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ORIGINAL: pompack

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ORIGINAL: bwheatley

It's very frustrating that they released the game knowing it's broken. Who'd want to do any strategic air stuff?? Nobody let's just leave it busted. Yes i'm only venting yes the game is amazing. But i paid my almost $100 bucks and would gladly do it again but nobody should deny that it is frustrating. At least compared to paradox the game came out 95% functional and manual accurate. :)

I respect your right to vent , but that simply is not true. If you checked the previous threads you will find that that particular bug was only detected and confirmed a couple of weeks ago.

Back when I was still working for a living, there were a couple of rules-of-thumb for testing really massive data processing systems (massive then meant about the size of WitP now, I'm a fossil )
1) the first hour of live data will exhibit more bugs than were found in the previous year of testing (a matter of limited test cases)
2) the last detected bug will be logged one hour before the system is scrapped and replaced

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ORIGINAL: pompack

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ORIGINAL: bwheatley

It's very frustrating that they released the game knowing it's broken. Who'd want to do any strategic air stuff?? Nobody let's just leave it busted. Yes i'm only venting yes the game is amazing. But i paid my almost $100 bucks and would gladly do it again but nobody should deny that it is frustrating. At least compared to paradox the game came out 95% functional and manual accurate. :)

I respect your right to vent , but that simply is not true. If you checked the previous threads you will find that that particular bug was only detected and confirmed a couple of weeks ago.

Back when I was still working for a living, there were a couple of rules-of-thumb for testing really massive data processing systems (massive then meant about the size of WitP now, I'm a fossil )
1) the first hour of live data will exhibit more bugs than were found in the previous year of testing (a matter of limited test cases)
2) the last detected bug will be logged one hour before the system is scrapped and replaced

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ORIGINAL: Terminus

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ORIGINAL: pompack

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ORIGINAL: bwheatley

It's very frustrating that they released the game knowing it's broken. Who'd want to do any strategic air stuff?? Nobody let's just leave it busted. Yes i'm only venting yes the game is amazing. But i paid my almost $100 bucks and would gladly do it again but nobody should deny that it is frustrating. At least compared to paradox the game came out 95% functional and manual accurate. :)

I respect your right to vent , but that simply is not true. If you checked the previous threads you will find that that particular bug was only detected and confirmed a couple of weeks ago.

Back when I was still working for a living, there were a couple of rules-of-thumb for testing really massive data processing systems (massive then meant about the size of WitP now, I'm a fossil )
1) the first hour of live data will exhibit more bugs than were found in the previous year of testing (a matter of limited test cases)
2) the last detected bug will be logged one hour before the system is scrapped and replaced

And let's ram a stake through that one immediately, since outright lies like that have an evil way of becoming true on Internet fora: this game was NOT released containing a knowingly broken strategic air model.

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ORIGINAL: Klydon

The Soviets basically have 4 planes that can make the trip. PE-8, IL-4, TB-3, and DB-3B.

Considering that TB-3's are no longer in production and are basically used for transport, it would be nuts to try to use them for bombing there. There are no operational groups of PE-8's to start the game with and with a production value of 1, there are never going to be very many. DB-3B's are obsolete and not in production. IL-4's are the best aircraft the Soviets could mount an offensive with and they have fair production, but considering the range of other aircraft available to the Soviets, they would be wise to conserve as many of these aircraft as possible in the early going because they are going to be needed later.

IF the air system is working correctly, then I would think a couple of units of ME-109's would quickly wear out any desire of the Russians to bomb in Rumania AND also if air field bombing would somewhat work as well, I would see the Luftwaffe launching bomber raids against any airbases in the Crimea trying to launch attacks on Rumania.

Basically, it would tie up some Luftwaffe assets in compensation for conserving troops elsewhere. It is something the Axis must weigh the pro's and con's of in a grand campaign game.

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ORIGINAL: ComradeP

We knew the air war wasn't ideal, but the majority of the bugs/issues that have been popping up were somewhat unexpected due to the limited time to test the latest changes. The air war was quite different just a few weeks before release.

Even with my passionate statements and the equally passionate statements of others about parts of the game, the developers did not release a knowingly broken game. As you can read in posts by Joel, they're aware of the games current shortcomings and are constantly trying to improve the game. Pavel, Gary and other supporting staff are finalizing bug fixes at astonishing rates.

2by3 isn't the kind of developer that sells you a knowingly broken game, takes your money and completely ignores customer support. They're aware of the issues and are working on improving numerous areas of the game. Considering what has been achieved since release or how the game became more and more polished in the few months I've tested it, the future looks bright.

As pompack already implied, "new and exciting" bugs were discovered within days. With around or so dozen or so guys+a lady, you can't cover everything.

Many of the bugs, like many great inventions, were noticed through sheer coincidence, as I described in my example that we noticed the issues with strategic bombing due to verifying a completely unrelated event.

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And that's fine but for someone to come through and say no the air war was fine at launch is hogwash.

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One reason i can think of that the germans would want to take it is specifically since you should be able to move units across the kerch strait towards the oil at baku. Or is that not the case.