RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion

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RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/13/2010 6:54:17 AM

Skanvak

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Froonp,

Thank you it is better.

To the other.

To clarify the debate we should agree on what is "correct" I mean by this fixed.

My understanding was to consider that the original WiF European map as to be consider correct and we put the rest from there.
Of course I'd like to have a real geograph (as someone whose job is to make maps) have a look at it and decide of a good process for correcting.

As is it Do we all agree that the European map is fixed?

Ullern, thanks for the number. I am bit supprised for 2 hexes I was quite convince for 3. But this is the good to go. We should find were the map is distorted and where it is not, that will define the part to move.

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Skanvak

(in reply to Ullern)

Post #: 91

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/13/2010 7:22:14 PM

Ullern

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Joined: 5/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skanvak

Froonp,

Thank you it is better.

To the other.

To clarify the debate we should agree on what is "correct" I mean by this fixed.

My understanding was to consider that the original WiF European map as to be consider correct and we put the rest from there.
Of course I'd like to have a real geograph (as someone whose job is to make maps) have a look at it and decide of a good process for correcting.

As is it Do we all agree that the European map is fixed?

Ullern, thanks for the number. I am bit supprised for 2 hexes I was quite convince for 3. But this is the good to go. We should find were the map is distorted and where it is not, that will define the part to move.

I can give you even more numbers

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth I find that the Earth is 148,940,000 km2 land (29.2 %) and 361,132,000 km2 water (70.8 %).

Subtract 14 000 000 km2 for continent of Antarctica which isn't included in MWIF (also found on wikipedia) and I get 134,940,000 km2 land.

In MWIF:

Numbers of hexdots 44012
Hexes with all lake 81
Hexes with land 26107 of which 4993 is coastal hexes.

Assuming that coastal hexes are all sea because they are really tiny islands, and that I'm not going to include all lake hexes, then I'm counting 21114 full land hexes. 134,940,000 km2 land divided on 21114 full land hexes is 6391 km2 per hex.

Assuming the previous assumption is bullshit and coastal hexes should really be treated as full land hexes I have 26107 full land hexes (still not counting all lake hexes). Which gives me 5168 km2 per hex.

***

Using formula for hexagons (looked up in wikipedia again) I find that

If we count the coastal hexes as all sea, then an average hexagon must be 86 km across the shortest way, and 99 km across from corner to corner.

If we count the coastal hexes as all land, then an average hexagon must be 77 km across the shortest way, and 89 km across from corner to corner.

(in reply to Skanvak)

Post #: 92

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/13/2010 8:43:19 PM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ullern
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth I find that the Earth is 148,940,000 km2 land (29.2 %) and 361,132,000 km2 water (70.8 %).

Subtract 14 000 000 km2 for continent of Antarctica which isn't included in MWIF (also found on wikipedia) and I get 134,940,000 km2 land.

In MWIF:

Numbers of hexdots 44012
Hexes with all lake 81
Hexes with land 26107 of which 4993 is coastal hexes.

Assuming that coastal hexes are all sea because they are really tiny islands, and that I'm not going to include all lake hexes, then I'm counting 21114 full land hexes. 134,940,000 km2 land divided on 21114 full land hexes is 6391 km2 per hex.

Assuming the previous assumption is bullshit and coastal hexes should really be treated as full land hexes I have 26107 full land hexes (still not counting all lake hexes). Which gives me 5168 km2 per hex.

***

Using formula for hexagons (looked up in wikipedia again) I find that

If we count the coastal hexes as all sea, then an average hexagon must be 86 km across the shortest way, and 99 km across from corner to corner.

If we count the coastal hexes as all land, then an average hexagon must be 77 km across the shortest way, and 89 km across from corner to corner.

If coastal hexes contain 0% land, we are on your first hypothesis,
If coastal hexes contain 100% land we are on your second hypothesis.

These numbers look like my rough measurements (which are sometimes on the shortest hexagon distance, sometimes on the longest) are quite good.

If we assume that coastal hexes contain 50% land, that's 21,114 full land hexes + 2497 full land hexes (50% of 4,993 coastal hexes) = 23,611 full land hexes. 134,940,000 km2 land divided on 23,611 full land hexes is 5,715 km2 per hex.

If we assume that coastal hexes contain 50% land, then an average hexagon must be 81 km across the shortest way, and 94 km across from corner to corner.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Froonp -- 8/14/2010 12:07:34 AM >

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Post #: 93

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/14/2010 6:49:19 AM

paulderynck

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To prevent further calculation due to the fact that parts of Northern Canada and Russia, and Greenland, are land hexes that are not on the MWIF map, it is a good brain-saving assumption to say that those missing land hexes are compensated by the extreme over projection at northern latitudes which tends to give many (some?) more land hexes than warranted for the area shown.

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Post #: 94

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/15/2010 2:08:33 AM

Sewerlobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ullern
Subtract 14 000 000 km2 for continent of Antarctica which isn't included in MWIF

Wait. What? Why? Ice in Flames.

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Post #: 95

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/15/2010 2:13:24 PM

Taxman66

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Penguins in flames sounds better.

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Post #: 96

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/15/2010 10:27:55 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Penguins in flames sounds better.

But it is the Arctic. Polar Bears in Flames? Or perhaps, Aurora Borealis.

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Post #: 97

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/15/2010 10:45:14 PM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Penguins in flames sounds better.

But it is the Arctic. Polar Bears in Flames? Or perhaps, Aurora Borealis.

It's Antarctic.
Arctos in Greek, Arktikos in ancient Greek and Arcticus in Latin mean Bear.

I read in a Dan Brown novel that Arctic is named for the Polar Bears that live there, and that Antarctic is named like that because there are no Polar Bears living there.
But I also read that Arctic is named like that because it is on a part of Earth that is in the area of the Bear Constellation, the small and the large, and that Antarctic is named like that because it is at the opposite side.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 98

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/16/2010 6:27:32 AM

Skanvak

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It cannot be ice in flames as it will melt.

I don't think taht the km� per hex will help the discution or the real distance as we are on a mercator map and Paul point out correctly that distance are distorted as you leave the equator. Russia for example is too big. I hve been busy this week end, still thinking about it.

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Skanvak

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Post #: 99

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/16/2010 2:40:23 PM

Neilster

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The Middle East...and other bits.

Cheers, Neilster

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< Message edited by Neilster -- 8/16/2010 2:44:40 PM >

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Post #: 100

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/16/2010 2:43:02 PM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
The Middle East...and other bits.

From where did you get this beauty ?
Can it turn around ?

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Post #: 101

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/16/2010 2:59:08 PM

Neilster

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Yep. I've improved my global MWiF model by (pretty roughly) adding Arctic and Antarctic regions. It's not perfect but they help give a better representation of the Earth.

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 102

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/16/2010 6:44:42 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Yep. I've improved my global MWiF model by (pretty roughly) adding Arctic and Antarctic regions. It's not perfect but they help give a better representation of the Earth.

Cheers, Neilster

Do you have any idea how this would work if the pixel count jumped from 4x4 = 16 per hex (for the zoomed in global map - what you are using now) to 136 x 114 = 15504 per hex (that is roughly what the detailed map uses at maximum resolution)? That is, if we increased the number of pixel by times 970.

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Post #: 103

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/16/2010 7:12:44 PM

Neilster

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Ahhh...a 970-fold increase is, as you know, non trivial but if you send me a global map image, I'll give it a go. It would probably be best to send a PNG file to prevent lossy artefacts, but as the file is likely to be pretty huge, perhaps a JPEG will be necessary. I'm no graphics guru. I just worked out a way to make some freeware do what I wanted.

I think you have my email address (joey_neilster etc etc). If not PM me.

Cheers, Neilster

Edit: I just made this, so a significant resolution increase should be possible.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Neilster -- 8/16/2010 7:51:14 PM >

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Post #: 104

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/16/2010 8:08:15 PM

Neilster

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Surely at the highest level of zoom there is little point in this spherical map view though? it will basically look like a flat map anyway. Isn't it more appropriate for a lower zoom level (say 16x16 pixels per hex)?

I'd like to do one of my map views without the sea area names but with the units on it, especially if there is an Eastern Front but I need someone to send me the appropriate MWiF 2D strategic map, as I'm not a tester. I can't remember if you can remove the sea area names either.

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 105

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/16/2010 9:54:15 PM

brian brian

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my head hurts.

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Post #: 106

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/17/2010 2:31:03 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Surely at the highest level of zoom there is little point in this spherical map view though? it will basically look like a flat map anyway. Isn't it more appropriate for a lower zoom level (say 16x16 pixels per hex)?

I'd like to do one of my map views without the sea area names but with the units on it, especially if there is an Eastern Front but I need someone to send me the appropriate MWiF 2D strategic map, as I'm not a tester. I can't remember if you can remove the sea area names either.

Cheers, Neilster

The last time I tried to make a zoomed in image of the MWIF world map it took a took a lot of my time and resulted in ~30 files. Delphi couldn't handle the full pixel load in one file, so I had to do it in pieces. Even then I wasn't using the highest level of zoom (as I recall I used level 5 instead of 8).

Though I have an interest in this, I really just don't have the time.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 107

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/17/2010 4:44:23 AM

Neilster

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I went back to CWiF and did some fiddling. I managed to get rid of the sea zone names.

Cheers, Neilster

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Neilster -- 8/17/2010 11:44:18 AM >

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Post #: 108

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/17/2010 9:59:08 AM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
I went back to CWiF and did some fiddling. I managed to get rid of the sea zone names.

What software do you use to sphericalize the 2D map ?

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Post #: 109

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/17/2010 10:34:04 AM

Neilster

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I'll send you a PM. Trade secrets

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 110

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/18/2010 5:44:22 AM

Skanvak

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Waah, a sperical Mwif Map :)

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Post #: 111

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 8/18/2010 6:44:28 PM

composer99

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That map (globe?) looks really cool.

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Post #: 112

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 9/2/2010 12:35:14 PM

christo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

I went back to CWiF and did some fiddling. I managed to get rid of the sea zone names.

Cheers, Neilster

Can I please just send a huge thank you to the the likes of Patrice and Neilster.
I would like to be able to check things to the extent that they do but, the more that I read the MWIF or WIF BLOG the more comfortable I feel that this great game will come to electronic fruition in a relevant and enjoyable manner.

Christo

(in reply to Neilster)

Post #: 113

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 9/12/2010 8:34:20 AM

Neilster

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Thanks mate but my spherical maps are just for my interest and won't be in the game.

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 114

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 1/11/2011 7:26:25 PM

Skanvak

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Just to remind that the Caucasus area need to be corrected. I would like a cartograph to revise it but think that I will have to do it when time and motivation will be avialable.

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Skanvak

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Post #: 115

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 1/12/2011 5:51:23 AM

rtamesis

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Beautiful work! Maybe we'll see it implemented in MWIF 2.0?

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Post #: 116

RE: Modifications to MWiF Caucasus Map portion - 4/21/2012 10:34:24 PM

Orm