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Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 4:48:20 AM   
Skyros


Posts: 1570
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline 		Came across this short video on you tube showing the big E getting hit by Jap Dive bobmers. Interesting to note the skyline in one of the scenes as the carrier maneuvers to avoid the attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFXcnUtMT4A&feature=related


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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 5:53:52 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Thanks, I have never seen that. You can see in the film before she was hit that she was heeled over and under full right rudder. Smoke drifting over the deck from the AA guns. Serious business.

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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 8:42:36 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Thanks - very interesting footage!

The list of Enterprise while turning is really big... this bust be very difficult for AA gunners...

BTW, the bombs seem to explode on impact (i.e. no delay fuse so that they would detonate after penetration) - was this standard practice for Japanese?


Leo "Apollo11"

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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 9:08:59 AM   
Ebusitanus


Posts: 20
Joined: 1/3/2011
From: Ibiza, Spain
Status: offline 		Great clip that I had never seen before.

Maybe someone here recalls a "famous" photo made from the bridge of a US Carrier in the precise moment the bomb hit the deck. The photographer, if I recall correctly, died from the explosion.

Not sure (a bit confused now) if it was this one, in which case it would just be a frame from the above clip


http://www.gettyimages.es/detail/89212142/Hulton-Archive

< Message edited by Ebusitanus -- 1/13/2011 9:20:38 AM >

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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 9:43:07 AM   
Ebusitanus


Posts: 20
Joined: 1/3/2011
From: Ibiza, Spain
Status: offline 		Hey! Found the place.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-e/cv6-a.htm

quote:

Photo #: 80-G-17489

Battle of the Eastern Solomons, August 1942

A Japanese bomb exploding on the flight deck of USS Enterprise (CV-6), just aft of the island, on 24 August 1942.
Note: According to the original photo caption, this explosion killed the photographer, Photographer's Mate 3rd Class Robert F. Read. However, Morison's "History of U.S. Naval Operations in World War II" (volume 5, page 97) states that Read was killed by the bomb that had earlier hit the after starboard 5"/38 gun gallery, which can be seen burning in the upper left. Morison further states that the bomb seen here exploded with a low order detonation, inflicting only minor damage.



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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 5:04:10 PM   
Knavey

 

Posts: 3052
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
Status: offline 		Incredible footage.

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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 6:25:00 PM   
Skyros


Posts: 1570
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline 		I think they used a combination of delayed and contact with the idea that contact explosions would impact AA. Would have to pull out one of my books to verify.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

Thanks - very interesting footage!

The list of Enterprise while turning is really big... this bust be very difficult for AA gunners...

BTW, the bombs seem to explode on impact (i.e. no delay fuse so that they would detonate after penetration) - was this standard practice for Japanese?


Leo "Apollo11"



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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 6:44:18 PM   
greg_slith


Posts: 490
Joined: 9/14/2004
Status: offline 		Intersting how the bomb that hit the 5" gallery seems to have caused more damage (fire, smoke, etc) than the one that hit the flight deck. That one just looks like a (large) pothole.
BTW, the music was pretty cool, too. Who was it? Benny Goodman?

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Post #: 8
RE: Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 6:58:46 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		Did you all notice at the begining of the clip, the planes coming up the elevator and on deck. They still had the pre war markings on them. The star had a red circle and the tail had the bands. I thought that was all painted over before that battle.

Great find!

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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 7:06:04 PM   
SuluSea


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ecwgcx

Intersting how the bomb that hit the 5" gallery seems to have caused more damage (fire, smoke, etc) than the one that hit the flight deck. That one just looks like a (large) pothole.
BTW, the music was pretty cool, too. Who was it? Benny Goodman?



Moonlight Serenade by Glenn Miller

Boy it's amazing how quick that big ol' girl could turn.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 1/13/2011 7:12:58 PM >

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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 8:03:03 PM   
Jakerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros
I think they used a combination of delayed and contact with the idea that contact explosions would impact AA. Would have to pull out one of my books to verify.


I'm on the impression that Japanese dive bombers had three bombs per load one larger bomb with delay fuse to have better armor penetration ability and two smaller bombs with contact fuse to improve effect against crew on deck but my memory could fail me I havent read read anything about this subject about years.

< Message edited by Jakerson -- 1/13/2011 8:05:53 PM >

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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 9:42:17 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ebusitanus

Great clip that I had never seen before.

Maybe someone here recalls a "famous" photo made from the bridge of a US Carrier in the precise moment the bomb hit the deck. The photographer, if I recall correctly, died from the explosion.

Not sure (a bit confused now) if it was this one, in which case it would just be a frame from the above clip


http://www.gettyimages.es/detail/89212142/Hulton-Archive



Yes, I think that this photo is actually part of that film and is often incorectly identified as the one that killed the photographer. My memory is not clear but I think I have read that before.

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Post #: 12
RE: Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 11:45:30 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		wow! just wow! thanks
loved seeing the 5"/38 swing into action. The turn to avoid the bombs was tremendous, you can almost feel it. The fact that this turn did not do much to throw off the dive bombers. How soon one bomb hit after the other. They must have been a well coordinated strike. One after another. But the training of the crew and how fast damage control started. Just seconds after the bomb strikes well trained crews are out fighting fires. Allied damage control rocks. Thanks for this.

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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/13/2011 11:58:39 PM   
YankeeAirRat


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

Did you all notice at the begining of the clip, the planes coming up the elevator and on deck. They still had the pre war markings on them. The star had a red circle and the tail had the bands. I thought that was all painted over before that battle.

Great find!


Yes, I actually think this is a mix of film from either the Carrier Raids, or pre-war and the Eastern Solomons.

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Post #: 14
RE: Enterprise Video - 1/14/2011 12:56:50 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		If I had been fighting age in WW2 I could not have been a Navy man. Just looking at that turn makes me nauseous

It is very cool seeing how all of that stuff works after years of playing it in digital form. Those elevators are a lot faster than I had imagined them.
The video also makes me feel a little guilty over how I treat my virtual pixel soldiers. When those men are out on the deck and see the bombers coming in again you can see the terror on their faces. Yet they did their duty anyways.]]

Really good video

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Post #: 15
RE: Enterprise Video - 1/14/2011 6:45:44 AM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros
I think they used a combination of delayed and contact with the idea that contact explosions would impact AA. Would have to pull out one of my books to verify.


I'm on the impression that Japanese dive bombers had three bombs per load one larger bomb with delay fuse to have better armor penetration ability and two smaller bombs with contact fuse to improve effect against crew on deck but my memory could fail me I havent read read anything about this subject about years.


Standard bomb load of Val was one 250 kg bomb (or sometimes 4 x 60 kg bombs). 1/3 of the planes carried HE bombs, while 2/3 had SAP bombs.

I think Val could carry 1 x 250 kg and 2 x 60 kg bombs only when distance was short.

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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/14/2011 7:16:19 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		My understanding is that the D3A1 could carry the single 250 and two 60 kg bombs to the types rated range, as this was the designe requirement.

Its also my understanding that  afik she never did operatonaly on any magor strike. ( I have looked and not found a referance for this, thier may be one of course.)

D3A1's did carry die markers and other singlining devices from their outer wing hard points on sorties along with the 250 kg bomb to aide in the forming up of the strike package, but this was not a comon load out for al planes in the formation.

D3A1's also carried a pair of 60 kg ASW weapons for ASW work on the outer hard points.

D3A1's could carry a 500kg bomb if the gunner stayed behind.

I have read referances for D3A2's carring 4 x 60 kg bombs on long range strikes with a centerline drop tank.

I have also sean D3A2's with a pair of 60kg bombs and a single 250 kg bomb sorting from shore bases in nuerious photos on diferent ocashions.

For some time I thought that the evidance in the Enterprise atack referanced above showed that the Valls had droped a 60 kg bomb, but load out records from the strike show all 250 kg weapons were carried by the Vals.

< Message edited by Brady -- 1/14/2011 7:18:35 AM >

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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/14/2011 7:04:40 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Read Shattered Sword regarding an great description of the mixed bombloads carried by the Vals.

Great video, however, I found Glenn Miller a bit of a strange choice for the action...


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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/14/2011 8:14:49 PM   
Nikademus


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From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady
For some time I thought that the evidance in the Enterprise atack referanced above showed that the Valls had droped a 60 kg bomb, but load out records from the strike show all 250 kg weapons were carried by the Vals.


In other words.....

I WAS RIGHT!!!!!!! BOOOOOO YA!!!!!!!.............. TTTHHHPPPFFTTTTT!!!!!!

you owe me beer.



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Post #: 19
RE: Enterprise Video - 1/14/2011 10:48:00 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline 		I seem to remember in that footage there was an SBD on deck near where the first bomb hit getting bounced over the side.

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Post #: 20
RE: Enterprise Video - 1/15/2011 6:53:58 PM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline 		Following the other clips suggested on the side leads to some other very interesting footage.

On the other hand, you have to be careful about the subject discussed and the footage. Like all 'productions' many are a mix of footage from different periods to 'illustrate' the subject. For example, in 'The Lost Evidence: Guadalcanal", the marines disembarking have the future mixed-camo style helmets. Definitely NOT Guadalcanal footage...

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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/18/2011 3:52:42 PM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady
For some time I thought that the evidance in the Enterprise atack referanced above showed that the Valls had droped a 60 kg bomb, but load out records from the strike show all 250 kg weapons were carried by the Vals.


In other words.....

I WAS RIGHT!!!!!!! BOOOOOO YA!!!!!!!.............. TTTHHHPPPFFTTTTT!!!!!!

you owe me beer.





Ya- no, I may of been wrong is all....

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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/21/2011 7:53:28 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline 		Just finished reading I think chapter V, The Battle of the Eastern Solomons, Vol. 5, S.E. Morisons History of the U.S. Navy in WW II last night. After all what else was there to do it was -29 F. outside. Anyway the hit on the 5" gun gallery was the second hit that went into the 5" galleries powder magazine killing all 38 in the gallery and a photographer filming the dive bombers dropping in on the ship. The first hit (30 seconds prior to the second not shown) penetrated down to the third deck killing 35 and starting several fires, the largest put out by a broken fire main. That is probably when the SBD bounced over the side. The third hit closest the the camera was defective and was a lower order detonation thus the lack of penetration and damage. Excellent footage. Be nice to see the first part. May have to dig around on the web and see what is out there.

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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/27/2011 5:07:50 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline 		I correct myself. The SBD bouncing over the side was film from the Battle of Santa Cruz. And twice I correct myself; it was chapter IV not V.
Sorry.

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Post #: 24
RE: Enterprise Video - 1/27/2011 9:25:56 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
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From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		"Note: According to the original photo caption, this explosion killed the photographer, Photographer's Mate 3rd Class Robert F. Read. However, Morison's "History of U.S. Naval Operations in World War II" (volume 5, page 97) states that Read was killed by the bomb that had earlier hit the after starboard 5"/38 gun gallery, which can be seen burning in the upper left. Morison further states that the bomb seen here exploded with a low order detonation, inflicting only minor damage."


If he had been killed by the earlier bomb hit, wouldn't that have made it rather difficult to take a photo of the later one?



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RE: Enterprise Video - 1/28/2011 1:48:29 PM   
morganbj


Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline 		Here's a video of the Enterprise as she left the docks after her last upgrade.


<Sorry, can't get the link to work correctly.>

< Message edited by bjmorgan -- 1/28/2011 1:49:39 PM >

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Post #: 26
RE: Enterprise Video - 1/28/2011 3:21:16 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"Note: According to the original photo caption, this explosion killed the photographer, Photographer's Mate 3rd Class Robert F. Read. However, Morison's "History of U.S. Naval Operations in World War II" (volume 5, page 97) states that Read was killed by the bomb that had earlier hit the after starboard 5"/38 gun gallery, which can be seen burning in the upper left. Morison further states that the bomb seen here exploded with a low order detonation, inflicting only minor damage."


If he had been killed by the earlier bomb hit, wouldn't that have made it rather difficult to take a photo of the later one?



There were two photographers, the others name escapes me as I'm at work and can not look it up right now. He is named in the same chapter though.

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