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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 2:35:32 PM   
diablo1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stridor

quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:

Men don't die as a stand like they did before, but now die off individually and you often see their dead bodies strwen on the field.


Sweet! This was one of my biggest disappointments in the origional games. It just didn't feel right and took away from the immersion when their Tin Soldiers series had a hand that would at least come out and take one unit from the stands when enough kill points were amassed. THanks a lot for this.


Ok here is a little movie demoing a single death. These suicidal soviets are charging (Human Wave - this was an AI decision not mine ) a group of PZIIs in order to engage them in close assault as there was no more anti tank assets to engage them at this stage.

This in and of itself is a new order available only to the soviets and opens up some new tactical possibilities.

Of course it is costly in human life as shown in the movie below.

Note: This was taken from a very old map which doesn't have grass enabled, so keep that in mind, we should have grass enabled on all maps by the time of release.

Enjoy

S.


Yes that's the way it should be. Looks real now. But, needed more movie!

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 2:37:16 PM   
diablo1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian


quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

Does Osfront take advantage of quad core machines? i7's 6gb ram? ATI5770 1gb HD graphics card?


Mine is a quad core machine and Von Staudt has a 6 core machine. As you might imagine the game runs very well on them.

Good Hunting.

MR



Ok since you have good machines will they run 10-12 units per squad on the maps great? How many have you tested?

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 3:10:14 PM   
Mad Russian


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We haven't tested any of them. We are not taking PCO in a 1:1 direction. There are the two selections that Stridor told you about. IF others want more than that they could be modded. We've not.

Good Hunting.

MR


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Post #: 123
RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 3:14:36 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


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Not being one to nitpick, but it seems as those soldiers are running on ice. Their legs are moving fast but they are not gaining ground comparable to the effort put forth. Is this just an abstraction? Am I expecting too much? Or is it just plain odd?

mo reb 

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 3:28:09 PM   
junk2drive


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Maybe you are expecting too much? This isn't an FPS. These men are on a charge order which is a fast move with no stopping for casualties. We do the best we can with animations.

EDIT I just watched it again 3 times and don't think it is bad.

< Message edited by junk2drive -- 1/23/2011 3:29:10 PM >


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Post #: 125
RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 3:35:34 PM   
Mad Russian


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Anyone wanting to mod the animations to make them better can do so.


Not to nitpick either but you do want to play this game right? We've already spent 2 years on this update. It's already WAY overdue. We could keep adding features and making it better and there would be exactly 12 people playing it. We thought at some point the rest of you would like to play it too. To do that we have to stop making improvements and give what we have done to you.

That's where we are now.

Good Hunting.

MR



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Post #: 126
RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 3:36:39 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


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Yeah I get that it's not a FPS, a genre I do not play. Yet I have also just watched the movie several times again and the space covered by their 'fast movement' seems more like a brisk walk. Is this the fastest troops move or is there some kind of dash order? 

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 3:40:34 PM   
junk2drive


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Maybe it is the angle of the video.

When playing the game in normal gods eye view the distance covered is fairly accurate for troops carrying a load.

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 3:43:26 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Anyone wanting to mod the animations to make them better can do so.


Not to nitpick either but you do want to play this game right? We've already spent 2 years on this update. It's already WAY overdue. We could keep adding features and making it better and there would be exactly 12 people playing it. We thought at some point the rest of you would like to play it too. To do that we have to stop making improvements and give what we have done to you.

That's where we are now.

Good Hunting.

MR





Well I am new to this game as that was my first post. I really don't care about the animations as much as I do about a ratio of time vs ground covered at the various paces. I don't think my questions/remarks were outrageous. It seems though that I have struck a nerve.

mo reb

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 3:52:26 PM   
junk2drive


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Sorry if we sound defensive. Just trying to understand what it is you are nitpicking.

We hope to have the demo out soon so that you can judge better what you are seeing.

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 4:11:51 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Well I am new to this game as that was my first post. I really don't care about the animations as much as I do about a ratio of time vs ground covered at the various paces. I don't think my questions/remarks were outrageous. It seems though that I have struck a nerve.

mo reb


Nope you haven't struck a nerve. Sorry it came across that way. After 2+ years of working on the update though it's time to turn it loose. More features cost more time.

Since you're new, I'll tell you that there has been a PATCH promised for PCK for almost 3 years now. 2+ years ago we were asked to come and help do a patch and then start work on the next version of the game. About 2 months into that the original developer stopped being a company. Matrix had to acquire the game and reset everything from square one.

For those concerned with Matrix' commitment to the PC series that should tell you everything.


All during that time those of us they asked to work on the patch turned this into an update instead.

The infantry model of the game needs work. We know that. We've concentrated on making the interface better and game mechanics as much as possible for a PATCH. While Matrix was busy, and I do mean BUSY, we kept going because they were trying to get more help for us. At some point they realized we were doing it all and just let us go.

The infantry model is much better than it ever was before. It's not totally fixed yet.

So, for 2 years we've heard, IS IT DONE YET? THAT LOOKS GREAT BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS? THIS IS STILL BROKEN! and as I said, at some point we have to release what we have. We fully intend on getting the infantry right.

But, as I pointed out, someone may get tired of what the animations look like and mod them. That has happened with other games and once PCO is released I expect that to happen here as well.

There is normal walking, advancing which is more cautious and rushing forward which is less cautious. 3 modes of advance for infantry.

Maybe that's a better explanation to your comments.

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/23/2011 9:50:11 PM >


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Post #: 131
RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 5:13:56 PM   
benpark

 

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As far as the animations go, myself and Spellir have gotten to the point where we can change the animations. This is one of the most tedious and time consuming things as far as the graphics go.

I've made it my mission to get the infantry game in shape once the terrain is take care of (a never ending process in itself). Improved animations is one of the areas I am pretty obsessed with making better.

There are some new animations, I believe- Stridor would have to remind me what they were. Close assault (grenage tossing) may be one.

I believe that information needs to be relayed to the player through the graphic representation (or sound) of what happens under the hood- if a panzerfaust is fired by a squad, it's nice to see it. We aren't there with every little detail, but the overall impression is so vastly improved from the original, I find it unrecognizable.

Three things to bear in mind, though-

1. We are a "Dad's Army" working on the game- a volunteer force. We are pretty different in terms of most any other game development out there. We are all modders and tinkerers laboring for the joy of it, only somewhat organized so that we can get a good update out. This means we will get to stuff that isn't as pressing when we can.

2. The hard-code structure of the game is such that new animations can't be added- but those that exist can. That means you won't see figures jumping fences, etc. Just different "idle" poses, "walking" poses, etc.

3. This game isn't 1:1. A group of figures represents a squad/team. So doing certain things to the animations that make people think that it is 1:1 goes against the grain of the game. I like 1:1, but I also like this style of play. But they both require differing approaches, and the graphics of the game need to reinforce that.



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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 5:28:02 PM   
diablo1

 

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Ok in regards to 1:1 that many of us are probably going to mod ourselves or download someone else's. What happens or how will the game determine when a soldier should fall to the ground in death? I've see how it does with 5 units per squad. I'm just interested in knowing how it will react to 10-12 units per squad? Will it even work? Will it wait until it gets t to the 5th soldier and then 7 of them will fall dead?

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 5:47:02 PM   
benpark

 

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No, they drop incrementally, so you may see 1 guy die or a few- depending on the severity of the casualties. Weapon scrounging is abstracted, so the heavy weapon is the last man standing.

As far as the game code goes, the difference between 3 men represented on screen and 12 is the same- the data that's input about it is the thing that makes it 12 men to the engine. Think of it being like a board game counter with a value of 3-4 (offensive-defensive). You make a bigger counter, and the values are the same to the game- no matter the size of the cardboard.

The good thing about the game is that it's fairly easy to change things if you can take 1/2 an hour to amend the text files. You could add another infantry figure to the "stand" of a squad in the XML file, and he would show up in the game if you didn't have any typos.

Making him run differently- that requires some skill in 3D animation and modeling. It depends on what you want to do- if you set your mind to it, you can really change a lot.


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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 5:49:24 PM   
benpark

 

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I certainly hope that people add more mod content to the game. The few of us on the team that have done the graphics work would like to see what people come up with.

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 6:01:59 PM   
rickier65

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

Ok in regards to 1:1 that many of us are probably going to mod ourselves or download someone else's. What happens or how will the game determine when a soldier should fall to the ground in death? I've see how it does with 5 units per squad. I'm just interested in knowing how it will react to 10-12 units per squad? Will it even work? Will it wait until it gets t to the 5th soldier and then 7 of them will fall dead?


I haven't tested adding 10-12 inf models to a unit, but what is supposed to happen is a "rounded" percentage will fall with each casualty hit. As Ben said, this is abstracted and we aren't trying for a 1:1 representation so even with 10-12 models in the unit, it still only has 3 "step losses" before it dies.

thakns
rick

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 6:25:06 PM   
diablo1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: benpark

I certainly hope that people add more mod content to the game. The few of us on the team that have done the graphics work would like to see what people come up with.


Did you add any female partisians? Female Russian soldiers? You do know there were female russian soldiers right?

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 6:38:00 PM   
benpark

 

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Spellir may have made a model for them, but didn't.

You are talking to a 41 year old man who has been reading about the Soviet/Axis war since he was 8. I know about them, and that they are a very, very minor part of the big picture. I'm far more interested about adding Axis minor troops than female partisans.

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 7:13:31 PM   
diablo1

 

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And once again the female gets descriminated against because of her MINOR part in a MAJOR effor. Personally I don't think anything or anyone was minor in that war. Every ounce of blood whether male or female wasn't minor when one of them was losing it.

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 7:32:10 PM   
benpark

 

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I'm talking about what we have time to put in the game, not something you are imagining I said.

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 7:33:58 PM   
Mad Russian


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The one realistic place to have Soviet female soldiers would be snipers. Otherwise you are looking at so few that they were extremely rare. Medics, nurses, adminstration, yes, combat units not so many. I have some pictures of a few that were tank drivers but not more than a handful. I know of NO women in Soviet infantry combat units.

As Ben said, rather than concentrate on something so rare we're trying to work our way down from the more common place items to less common place. Women in Soviet uniforms are extremely rare if you don't count snipers.

Good Hunting.

MR


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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 7:46:01 PM   
Jacko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

And once again the female gets descriminated against because of her MINOR part in a MAJOR effor. Personally I don't think anything or anyone was minor in that war. Every ounce of blood whether male or female wasn't minor when one of them was losing it.


Give your sniper a female name then and let these guys concentrate themselves on a serious subject.

< Message edited by Jacko -- 1/23/2011 7:47:16 PM >


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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 8:14:48 PM   
Richie61


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

After 2+ years of working on the update though it's time to turn it loose.


That's what I want to hear


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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 8:16:26 PM   
diablo1

 

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quote:

I know about them, and that they are a very, very minor part of the big picture. I'm far more interested about adding Axis minor troops than female partisans.


Do you think I THINK you said that or did you say that? ^

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 8:19:14 PM   
diablo1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

The one realistic place to have Soviet female soldiers would be snipers. Otherwise you are looking at so few that they were extremely rare. Medics, nurses, adminstration, yes, combat units not so many. I have some pictures of a few that were tank drivers but not more than a handful. I know of NO women in Soviet infantry combat units.

As Ben said, rather than concentrate on something so rare we're trying to work our way down from the more common place items to less common place. Women in Soviet uniforms are extremely rare if you don't count snipers.

Good Hunting.

MR



70% of the 800,000 Russian women who served in the Soviet army in WW2 fought at the front. One hundred thousand of them were decorated for defending their country.



Alexandra Beikov and her husband Ivan bought their own tank so they could go into WW2 together. She was awarded the order of the Patriotic War.

Maria Baide, a scout in the Crimea was awarded Russia's highest honor, Hero of the Soviet Union.

Over 800,000 women served in the Soviet army during WW2. They served as pilots, snipers, machine gunners, tank crew members and partisans

All I requested was one little measly female partisian unit and I get "how minor they were in the big picture comments."

< Message edited by diablo1 -- 1/23/2011 8:44:38 PM >


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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 8:48:21 PM   
benpark

 

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About what I'm more interested in adding?

I am more interested in adding large scale combat forces than peripheral models (very time consuming).

It has nothing to do with if people were heroic, or suffered etc. This is a game, and we are trying to depict things that will be of the most use to the majority of situations.



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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 9:02:24 PM   
diablo1

 

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Ok that's fine I'll just drop it. You can go back to making your little model TREES! Yeah boy I'm so excited about those things.

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 9:06:13 PM   
spellir74


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quote:


Three things to bear in mind, though-

1. We are a "Dad's Army" working on the game- a volunteer force. We are pretty different in terms of most any other game development out there. We are all modders and tinkerers laboring for the joy of it, only somewhat organized so that we can get a good update out. This means we will get to stuff that isn't as pressing when we can.


It is percent based, in four steps including death.

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RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 9:20:56 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

The one realistic place to have Soviet female soldiers would be snipers. Otherwise you are looking at so few that they were extremely rare. Medics, nurses, adminstration, yes, combat units not so many. I have some pictures of a few that were tank drivers but not more than a handful. I know of NO women in Soviet infantry combat units.

As Ben said, rather than concentrate on something so rare we're trying to work our way down from the more common place items to less common place. Women in Soviet uniforms are extremely rare if you don't count snipers.

Good Hunting.

MR



70% of the 800,000 Russian women who served in the Soviet army in WW2 fought at the front. One hundred thousand of them were decorated for defending their country.



Alexandra Beikov and her husband Ivan bought their own tank so they could go into WW2 together. She was awarded the order of the Patriotic War.

Maria Baide, a scout in the Crimea was awarded Russia's highest honor, Hero of the Soviet Union.

Over 800,000 women served in the Soviet army during WW2. They served as pilots, snipers, machine gunners, tank crew members and partisans

All I requested was one little measly female partisian unit and I get "how minor they were in the big picture comments."


ROFL!!!

Okay then. Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

A woman and her husband buy a tank to fight in and it makes international news. You know why? Because it's a rare thing.

Yes, at the moment there are other things we want to include in PCO. The fact that we don't have partisans may have something to do with the fact that we don't have a "woman" partisan.

I would rather concentrate on getting the interface and the main equipment set in the game before we do other exotic things like women partisans.

Now, if you have such a bee in your bonnet to have them, they can be done. The greatest thing about PC in my opinion is that anything can be added. You can do whatever you like. I'm not a modder or I would have had women Soviet snipers in the game at the moment. I asked for them but have not gotten them. It wasn't high on my list of things to see but I felt it would add flavor to the game.

Reading down the same page from where you got your quote you would have seen:

The Soviet Union also used women for sniping duties extensively, and to great effect, including Nina Alexeyevna Lobkovskaya and Ukrainian Lyudmila Pavlichenko (who killed over 300 enemy soldiers). The Soviets found that sniper duties fit women well, since good snipers are patient, careful, deliberate, can avoid hand-to-hand combat, and need higher levels of aerobic conditioning than other troops. Women also served as machine gunners, tank drivers, medics, communication personnel and political officers. Manshuk Mametova was a machine gunner from Kazakhstan and was the first Soviet Asian woman to receive the Hero of the Soviet Union for acts of bravery.


In most other places women weren't concentrated enough to really notice.

Almost half of those serving were in antiaircraft units.

About 300,000 served in anti—aircraft units and performed all functions in the batteries—including firing the guns. A small number were combat flyers in the Air Force.

That cuts down the number in combat units by about half the 800,000 you quoted. I was trying to find an article I thought remembered. It was about an all woman infantry unit. ONE COMBAT UNIT. But I couldn't find it. Mostly what you see are references to a tank driver here and there. Lots of medics in combat units and many of the administrative duties of combat units. Things men did in other countries.

When it comes to partisans you're absolutely correct. Not just for the Soviet Union but for all nations. Once we do partisans then you'll get a woman as well. I would expect to see one as a sniper before then though.

Good Hunting.

MR



< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/23/2011 9:41:06 PM >


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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
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Post #: 149
RE: Status? - 1/23/2011 9:37:59 PM   
spellir74


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Anyone wanting to mod the animations to make them better can do so.


Not to nitpick either but you do want to play this game right? We've already spent 2 years on this update. It's already WAY overdue. We could keep adding features and making it better and there would be exactly 12 people playing it. We thought at some point the rest of you would like to play it too. To do that we have to stop making improvements and give what we have done to you.

That's where we are now.

Good Hunting.

MR





Well I am new to this game as that was my first post. I really don't care about the animations as much as I do about a ratio of time vs ground covered at the various paces. I don't think my questions/remarks were outrageous. It seems though that I have struck a nerve.

mo reb


Speeds for everything were calculated by real world values --before we got here. A certain amount of meters covered in a certain amount of time (per real world, just like armor and penetration). I imagine the values [for eg slow med fast] are fairly realistic enough.

Changing the inf speed "mechanics"(engine values) to sync up with the animations would NOT be the way to go (unless the INF movement values were found to be unrealistic). Changing the INF animations is the way to go.

The infantry is going to be changed substantially after the patch for PzC:next. There will also be changes added by Ben and I before that.

We started off the patch studiously avoiding infantry mechanics by directive; and that mind set stuck with us even though the "patch" project ballooned.


(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
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