Trains in the Pacific

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Trains in the Pacific

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Trains in the Pacific - 9/9/2002 3:09:36 PM

Piiska

Posts: 132
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline

Are railways going to be modelled in the WITP?

Inspiration to look into the matter of trains came to me from researching the history of railroads in Australia. The railroad from Brisbane to Townsville was completed back in 1924, yet it is not present in the Uncommon Valour.

I read somewhere that this train line is going to be modelled in WITP; how about the other lines such as the Burma railway? (It's very difficult to tell from the screenshots if the lines are roads or railroads).

I was also thinking about the modelling of trains. If the game specifies single infantry units and even engineering vehicles, would individual trains be beyond the scope of the game? In my opinion they don�t have to be. Perhaps utilising the model of air transport units, the trains could be included as well.

Lets say that a �squadron� of trains located in Brisbane, is ordered to carry fuel, supplies or troops to Townsville. First we determine the number of trains (capacity) and then the distance of destination vs. the speed. This way it could be calculated how much stuff moves from one location to another in a turn. Of course this could be abstracted to avoid complication of things, but I feel the trains should be counted for three good reasons.

First is interdiction. Japanese or Allied airplanes should have the possibility to attack trains at the same way they can attack air transports. This could be counteracted by assigning the trains to night operations only, effectively reducing the capacity of their transport. This would simulate the effects of reduced time of operation, slower speed due to driving without lights etc.

Second reason to model trains individually is their capture. If a rail line has active trains and their base is captured, the trains should change ownership �unless the retreating troops destroy them.

Third reason is close to second, but little different. If a player captures a railway that has no trains, the player should be able to transport trains to that line. Sure enough a big ship and a railway station in the port city would be needed, but it should be possible.

I know that everything cannot be modelled, but as the logistics play such an important role in the game, the inclusion of trains in by belief is warranted, as they can have significant impact on troop and supply movement.

If the railways are included it poses another significant question. Should the player have control over the building of railways?

Ports and airfields can be built, should the railways be any different? Japanese certainly built railways during the war using the POW. This is historical and rather significant and it should at least be considered.

Considered, I say, as limits of programming should always be kept in mind and I know that by introducing new features new bugs are also introduced. Also AI would need tweaking to properly use a new feature etc.

However, I believe that with use of the already existing code, the benefit of including the trains could be more significant than the problems this new feature could pose.

Post #: 1

- 9/9/2002 4:58:53 PM

Drongo

Posts: 2205
Joined: 7/12/2002
From: Melb. Oztralia
Status: offline

Piiska,

I had assumed railways were going to be represented the same as roads (increased supply flow from base to base as in UV). Transport convoys and trains would effectively be the same (although railways should be more efficient). I haven't read all the threads here, have Matrix indicated whether it will be represented differently in WitP.

You raise a very good point on the need for interdiction (regardless of whether their are trains/truck convoys or not)

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Post #: 2

- 9/9/2002 5:31:31 PM

Piiska

Posts: 132
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline

Now this is highly simplified as I don�t know about trains in detail. Perhaps somebody knows how many cars a single engine was capable of pulling and how many engines and car historically existed in Australia or elsewhere. Anyway, I present this to give an idea how the aspect of interdiction could be simply presented.

Squadron title: �State Rail Authority�

Engines 10 Damaged 0
Cars 100 Damaged 0

Destination Townsville

Load Supply
Load Fuel
Load Troops

Assigned to Day operations
Transport capacity per turn: 10, 000 (maybe lower as all engines and cars are not available at all times due to maintenace)

Each engine is capable of pulling about 10-20 cars. Each car can haul about 100 points of supply fuel or troops (including the heavy equipment), so that with 50 cars and 3 engines you can transport a unit of size 4300 with supply from Brisbane to Townsville.

If the Japanese have an airbase within reach of either Brisbane or Townsville, the airplanes ordered to fly either LRCAP or Ground Attack to either of the cities have a chance of attacking the train. Code that is used to determine airlift interceptions could almost be used as such. The only difference would be that instead of reporting �The Topsys flying to x were intercepted� a combat screen similar to the ship combat screed is initiated.

If the intercepting planes are LRCAP planes they strafe the train, if they are ground attack planes they also use bombs or rockets. The engines and cars would be presented separately. If an engine(s) is destroyed it halts the train (the same as intercepted airlift), if a car is destroyed or damaged, supplies and troops suffer losses. Losses to trains and cars would obviously be recorded and re-enforcements could be something similar to that of vehicles �only more difficult to get.

I believe everything is there code-wise, only the numbers of engines cars and transport capacities need to be tweaked according to historical values.

(in reply to Piiska)

Post #: 3

- 9/9/2002 7:11:44 PM

IChristie

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline

Not sure how they will be modelled but there are railroads on the maps. The straight dark brown lines in the screenshots are RR, the curved grey and yellow lines are roads and paths.

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Iain Christie
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"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

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(in reply to Piiska)

Post #: 4