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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/31/2011 1:50:03 AM

ny59giants

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quote:

Brad and I have exchanged a series of email summarizing our thoughts about the India campaign and the Oz deception. It was a helpful, cordial, interesting discussion. He did let slip that he "hasn't seen my carriers since around Christmas" (when Big E stumbled upon a sub near Sydney). I think he said this for a purpose. He might not have seen my carriers yet, but I bet he has some ideas. He also mentioned how hard it is to create deceptions. This is more likely an innocent statement since we were discussing his Oz efforts of early '42, but perhaps he's mulling over things in ways I can't imagine. Things will likely begin to happen in about ten days....or less, possibly, if Brad is outplaying me.

Paranoid much??

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1441

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 3:02:32 PM

Canoerebel

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11/13/42

Ah, paranoia, doubt, fear, and uncertainty. The four horsemen of the apocalypse! Eisenhower offered some very interesting insight into how a military leader must conduct himself in order to appear confident even when doubt assails him. On June 5, 1944, he drew up two sets of press release. One began something like this: "The Allies have been force to withdraw the forces engaged....all fault lies with me."

India: Allied deliberate attacks will finish off 6th Guards/C near Poona any day now. The armored attack/pursuits continue tomorrow against the stack south of Goa, which should die pretty soon. West of Poona, the first attack against IJA's 48th Division is promising - it comes off at just shy of 2:1 and inflicts higher casualties on this still-full strength, though undoubtedly badly disrupted, unit. It can hold out for a decent amount of time, but the end will come without committing a large number of Allied troops. Meanwhile, vanguard Allied units are sniffing around the suburbs west of Calcutta, closing in on Hyderabad, and starting to look at the roads leading to Madras. All indications are that the Japanese are in full retreat.

CenPac: The fleets continue to sail west with no sign of detection. The CVEs and combat ships remain at Pearl. Picket ships will be used extensively.

SoPac: The carriers are probably three or four days east of Auckland. A cruiser patrol plane reported something like seven enemy ships. I wonder if a wandering IJN sub caught a whiff? It would suit me, but I doubt it. A base force was transported by air to Funafuti. Now I've moved a PBY squadron there. Fiji Brigade arrived at Nadi. That unit and the rest of the Nadi garrison, including one Marine regiment, are now prepping for Luganville.

Summary: Everything looks right at the moment, and I still feel good about the plan and how things are developing; but there's time for things to change before the Allies pull any triggers.

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 1442

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 3:22:34 PM

beppi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

11/13/42

Ah, paranoia, doubt, fear, and uncertainty. The four horsemen of the apocalypse! Eisenhower offered some very interesting insight into how a military leader must conduct himself in order to appear confident even when doubt assails him. On June 5, 1944, he drew up two sets of press release. One began something like this: "The Allies have been force to withdraw the forces engaged....all fault lies with me."

India: Allied deliberate attacks will finish off 6th Guards/C near Poona any day now. The armored attack/pursuits continue tomorrow against the stack south of Goa, which should die pretty soon. West of Poona, the first attack against IJA's 48th Division is promising - it comes off at just shy of 2:1 and inflicts higher casualties on this still-full strength, though undoubtedly badly disrupted, unit. It can hold out for a decent amount of time, but the end will come without committing a large number of Allied troops. Meanwhile, vanguard Allied units are sniffing around the suburbs west of Calcutta, closing in on Hyderabad, and starting to look at the roads leading to Madras. All indications are that the Japanese are in full retreat.

CenPac: The fleets continue to sail west with no sign of detection. The CVEs and combat ships remain at Pearl. Picket ships will be used extensively.

SoPac: The carriers are probably three or four days east of Auckland. A cruiser patrol plane reported something like seven enemy ships. I wonder if a wandering IJN sub caught a whiff? It would suit me, but I doubt it. A base force was transported by air to Funafuti. Now I've moved a PBY squadron there. Fiji Brigade arrived at Nadi. That unit and the rest of the Nadi garrison, including one Marine regiment, are now prepping for Luganville.

Summary: Everything looks right at the moment, and I still feel good about the plan and how things are developing; but there's time for things to change before the Allies pull any triggers.

Rule #1, if everything looks right there is something wrong :)

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1443

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 3:59:45 PM

Canoerebel

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Oh, thanks for triggering my 1,387th fear/paranoia/uncertainty/doubt episode of the game.

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Post #: 1444

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 6:51:08 PM

Cribtop

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CR,

Have you given any thought to Brad's likely strategic plan now that the IJA is clearly heading for the exits in India? What will he do as far as defensive preparations, and how have losses and disproportionate force allocations to the western map edge affected the usual perimeter, if at all? Will he try spoiling attacks or some other device to re-take the initiative or go over to full bore defense? How will his distraction and/or player demoralization impact his grand strategy? Etc, etc.

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Post #: 1445

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 7:08:06 PM

Canoerebel

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Here is what I know, suspect, and guess about Brad's force disposition:

1. I know that one division (33rd) has been sent to Palembang. To my knowledge, that and 65th Mixed Brigade at Padang are the only two major IJA units in Sumatra. Obviously, I'm keeping a watch on this critical island.

2. I know that Brad transferred three or four divisions to Rabaul and Truk several months ago, including the 2nd. These units were prepping for Suva. I would be stunned if Brad attacked Fiji at this late date - stunned but delighted, because the garrison is very strong.

3. If Brad doesn't invade Midway, the AE community needs to convene a court martial to try him for criminal neglect. I assume he's coming. I'm worried that he'll come as soon as he sees my carriers in SoPac. So I'm afraid my Wake/Marcus TFs might walk into a beehive.

4. Where will the rest of his massive Indian Expeditionary Army go? Some units will need time to recover from great loss (the six divisions decimated in India). These will go to non-malarial, quiet, rear bases. Manila, Rangoon, Japan, and maybe China. He'll undoubtedly spread the remainder around - probably around the DEI and some of the big bases in the Pacific. If I'm very lucky, he won't send any more divisions to Sumatra, but I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one more anchor the west side of the island.

5. I doubt Brad will go on the offensive now (except Midway). Too much time has passed. In his mind, the Allies will have used the nine months he has been absent in the Pacific to build up most bases greatly. I no longer have the least concern about Oz, New Zealand, Fiji, Pago Pago, Hawaii, or the Western Aleutians.

6. I think he's concentrating on defenses. He will probably also develop mobile reaction forces that might permit him to counterinvade places like Wake Island, Tarawa, Lunga, etc. in the event of Allied invasions.

7. I'm moving a decent army forward from Alice Springs/Tennant Creek to put some pressure on Daly Waters/Katherine. If I'm lucky, this will draw Brad's attention to the Darwin theater and Timor. I hope he sends alot of troops there.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/1/2011 7:09:25 PM >

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 1446

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 7:21:43 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

3. If Brad doesn't invade Midway, the AE community needs to convene a court martial to try him for criminal neglect. I assume he's coming.

If you don't mind, I would like to hear more about this in a general context. I've seen so many posts on both sides of this - IJ player should always grab Midway vs. Midway is a waste of time.

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Post #: 1447

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 7:27:07 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

3. If Brad doesn't invade Midway, the AE community needs to convene a court martial to try him for criminal neglect. I assume he's coming.

If you don't mind, I would like to hear more about this in a general context. I've seen so many posts on both sides of this - IJ player should always grab Midway vs. Midway is a waste of time.

Me 2.

It's almost 1943. What does he gain at this point in taking a 6000 max island he has to hang it out to supply?

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Post #: 1448

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 7:30:39 PM

Canoerebel

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He who controls Midway controls thousands of square miles of ocean.

If Japan controls Midway, Japanese patrols and subs and picket ships can spread out from there, making it nearly impossible for the Allies to sneak up on places like Wake, Marcus and Iwo. If the Allies control it, though, the Allies have a decent chance of getting at least as far as Midway and maybe much farther before being detected (especially if the Allied player has succeeded in deception activity elsewhere). This could mean a difference in fifteen days or so warning time for the IJA player. Few Allied players are going to even try such a move if they don't control Midway.

If Japan takes Midway and the Allies want to move west, they've first got to retake the island. It's pretty far out on the limb for the IJA player to constantly guard with combat ships and carriers, especially by 1943, so the Allied player is likely to succeed, though at some cost. But the commitment of resources and time needed to plan, prep, launch, and achieve means critical assets aren't being used elsewhere, and it also alerts the IJ player that the Allied player cares enough about Midway to expend all that energy. That's something worth knowing.

Of course, the Allied player may have no plans to move out that way whatsoever, and in that case the IJ player gets the benefit of that developing awareness too.

In this game, Midway is even more important. The Allies have built up the Aleutians in a major way. A move to the west is certainly possible, from Brad's point of view. Midway is an important supporting base on the left flank of that theater. If the Allies hold it, it reduces the seciton of the Pacific that Japanese ships (especially carriers) can traverse without detection, making it more difficult for Japan to move from, say, Kwajalein to the Kuriles.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/1/2011 7:44:48 PM >

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Post #: 1449

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 7:49:45 PM

Canoerebel

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Take this game, for instance.

I've held Midway throughout. I've also had a picket ship posted about fifteen hexes WSW of Midway. That means I would have known about any IJ carrier TF in the area during the past eleven months....or if the Japanese were coming. But there hasn't been anything. The picket has remained unmolested, which has told me alot. It also served to seriously narrow the "safe and undetected passage" space for the Japanese in that part of the Pacific.

Then there's Midway's immense utility as a sub base.

If Japan held Midway, not only would I lose the benefit of that knowledge, security, and buffer, but Japan would add a commensurate amount to it's own position.

Shame on any Allied player who doesn't use Midway to full advantage....and shame on any Japanese player who doesn't try to prevent it.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1450

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 8:36:41 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

He who controls Midway controls thousands of square miles of ocean.

If Japan controls Midway, Japanese patrols and subs and picket ships can spread out from there, making it nearly impossible for the Allies to sneak up on places like Wake, Marcus and Iwo. If the Allies control it, though, the Allies have a decent chance of getting at least as far as Midway and maybe much farther before being detected (especially if the Allied player has succeeded in deception activity elsewhere). This could mean a difference in fifteen days or so warning time for the IJA player. Few Allied players are going to even try such a move if they don't control Midway.

Meh.

The problem with Midway is that it's so far North. Allied invasions of Wake, Marcus and Iwo can be effected with minimal delay by doglegging down slightly to the South before resuming the WNW trajectory. There's quite a search gap in the Pacific ocean on the line between Johnston atoll and Wake. Midway ownership shouldn't impact this.

When combined with the fact that all naval search beyond 12 hexes is largely fruitless (further minimizing Midway's value proposition), it's a non-sequitor IMO. For the IJ to NOT take Midway is not irresponsible, IMO. You'd have to count me off of this jury, dude-san.

quote:

In this game, Midway is even more important. The Allies have built up the Aleutians in a major way. A move to the west is certainly possible, from Brad's point of view. Midway is an important supporting base on the left flank of that theater. If the Allies hold it, it reduces the seciton of the Pacific that Japanese ships (especially carriers) can traverse without detection, making it more difficult for Japan to move from, say, Kwajalein to the Kuriles.

But your Aleutians and Central Pacific ops are not interconnected, right? They are two independent thrusts that are mutually exclusive, as far as Brad knows. I doubt this is a major issue for him.

The main benefit to Midway as the Japs (as I see it) is as an advanced submarine base. So close to your West Coast CONUS-Hawaii transportation network that short-ranged RO boats and otherwise lesser capable submarines can be utilized here to interdict your shipping.

Sure, if you've got it, stick some search planes on it, but it's not going to kill you one way or the other.

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Post #: 1451

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 8:51:04 PM

Bullwinkle58

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I agree. In theory Midway is all powerful, a floating observation/sub haven/surface raidin'/fortress of solitude.

In reality, by 1943, it's out on a LONG limb for the IJN. Subs? They have to get fuel and supplies there. (And you have more, and better subs close by to stop him supplying the island.) Easy pickings for the Allies. And, the Allies have LCUs galore, including four USMC full divisions that need combat experience. The Japanese take Midway, take it back. PH can surge immense numbers of CAs and smaller to bombard, escort, interdict.

By 1943 you don't need to worry so much that he knows you're coming west. As Chicken says, you can easily dogleg away where he won't, but even if he knows, so what? Bring it on. He's had his year. It's time for some pounding.

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Post #: 1452

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 9:11:48 PM

Canoerebel

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From the perspective of a conservative Allied player, Midway in the hands of the Japanese is daunting, at least in Scenario Two. The prospect of going into enemy held waters to take on the KB in late '42 or '43 is frightening in the extreme, so most Allied players won't chance it. That gives the Japan that much more time with an excellent buffer. And it is hard to conceive of a move on Wake, Marcus, or Iwo with Midway in enemy hands. Essentially impossible until the Allies have carrier parity, which won't be until mid '43 or later.

So I must respectfully disagree with you lads. I would hate for Brad to take Midway at this point in the game. It would really trouble the Allies. For that reason, Brad should target it even if it wasn't of great benefit directly to him.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/1/2011 9:12:02 PM >

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Post #: 1453

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 10:18:25 PM

Canoerebel

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11/14/42

India: 6th Guards/C Div. will evaporate tomorrow; 48th Div. moved a hex west off any road into a jungle/coastal hex. Is there any reason Brad can't use subs or amphibious patrol aircraft to lift these troops out? I'll get troops there to finish them off as soon as possible. In the meantime, aircraft and bombardment TFs will pay them a visit. To the south, an IJA remant stack aouth of Goa retreated after another attack.

CenPac: The Marcus TFs are NNE of Midway; the Wake TFs are a few days SE of Midway. Another picket ship will depart Midway, sailing NNW. Three CVE and one BB depart Pearl Harbor tonight. No signs of enemy detection. SigInt the past few days has reported a large TF of unknown type or composition making for Tokyo Harbor from the south. I don't know enough to even suspect it could be the KB. The IJN carriers could be anywhere.

SoPac: The Allied carriers are about two days ESE of Auckland. The Noumea invasion TFs will load at Auckland tonight.

Prepared to Strike: If the Marcus or Wake TFs stumble into the KB, I can proceed with the Noumea invasion. If they don't encounter the KB, the Noumea invasion stays at home. I'm not yet positive I'll actually move on Marcus. That island is way out there and would be impossible to hold long, but I'm weighing whether it would create some consternation in Brad and reinforce the notion that he had better be looking at CenPac and NoPac down the road.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1454

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 10:38:03 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

11/14/42

India: 6th Guards/C Div. will evaporate tomorrow; 48th Div. moved a hex west off any road into a jungle/coastal hex. Is there any reason Brad can't use subs or amphibious patrol aircraft to lift these troops out? I'll get troops there to finish them off as soon as possible. In the meantime, aircraft and bombardment TFs will pay them a visit. To the south, an IJA remant stack aouth of Goa retreated after another attack.

No. Try LRCAP if you can spare any. Maybe an ASW group? Don't know if either id feasible given your force deployments.

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Post #: 1455

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 11:00:27 PM

Canoerebel

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I can handle LRCAP from adjacent Bombay. I'll see about getting some ASW there ASAP. Thanks.

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Post #: 1456

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 11:27:19 PM

ny59giants

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Dan - Have you found a good choice for training in ASW amongst the British aircraft besides the Catalina?? I was thinking about the Wellington, what say you (or others on this thread)??

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Post #: 1457

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 11:46:26 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Is there any reason Brad can't use subs or amphibious patrol aircraft to lift these troops out?

The Mavis H6K-L series is excellent for this purpose. They're not patrol aircraft so much as dedicated amphibious airlift with a range of >20 IIRC. Brad is likely working these overtime. LRCAP would be a nice little nasty surprise.

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Post #: 1458

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/1/2011 11:48:56 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Dan - Have you found a good choice for training in ASW amongst the British aircraft besides the Catalina?? I was thinking about the Wellington, what say you (or others on this thread)??

Not that I play the Allies, but wouldn't the Wellington be RAF versus the Catalina RNAF or somesuch? Are pilots transferrable between these branches for the Allies?

FWIW as Japanese, I prefer Nell or Betty ASW training, so's to move these pilots into other IJNAF units. I'll also train up some IJAAF ASW pilots with Sallys or Lillys, but to a lesser extent.

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Post #: 1459

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/2/2011 4:31:21 AM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

From the perspective of a conservative Allied player, Midway in the hands of the Japanese is daunting, at least in Scenario Two.

So I must respectfully disagree with you lads. I would hate for Brad to take Midway at this point in the game. It would really trouble the Allies. For that reason, Brad should target it even if it wasn't of great benefit directly to him.

Not speaking to your game, but in general . . .

My point is, don't let him have it, not it's not useful (I guess, for six months or so, in a limited way.) By 1943 Midway is in your front yard, not deep in any sort of Japanese area. Every bit of strategic and tactical balance is in your favor if he decides to try to take it and/or hold it. You can, with very little loss or risk, kill any land or sea forces he sticks that far out especially any supply TFs. By that date Midway is an order of magnitude farther east than his defense perimeter should be.

Anything he sends to Midway should die. Which is why I predict he won't go there, nor should he. He should be digging furiously on Kwaj, Truk, Ponape, Eniwetok, Saipan, and Iwo, not expanding his area or responsibility.

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Post #: 1460

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/2/2011 1:42:41 PM

vettim89

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

From the perspective of a conservative Allied player, Midway in the hands of the Japanese is daunting, at least in Scenario Two.

So I must respectfully disagree with you lads. I would hate for Brad to take Midway at this point in the game. It would really trouble the Allies. For that reason, Brad should target it even if it wasn't of great benefit directly to him.

Not speaking to your game, but in general . . .

My point is, don't let him have it, not it's not useful (I guess, for six months or so, in a limited way.) By 1943 Midway is in your front yard, not deep in any sort of Japanese area. Every bit of strategic and tactical balance is in your favor if he decides to try to take it and/or hold it. You can, with very little loss or risk, kill any land or sea forces he sticks that far out especially any supply TFs. By that date Midway is an order of magnitude farther east than his defense perimeter should be.

Anything he sends to Midway should die. Which is why I predict he won't go there, nor should he. He should be digging furiously on Kwaj, Truk, Ponape, Eniwetok, Saipan, and Iwo, not expanding his area or responsibility.

I am going with the moose on this one. AE's troop limits on small atolls are a game changer as far as Midway goes. The Allies can maybe afford to keep a garrison slightly more than 6000 there, but even then you would have to devote a lot of ships to moving a continuous supply stream there. Unless Brad wants to devote his entire fleet fleet to the defense of an outpost, it will become untenable for him. Its proximity to PH would mean you could limit his ability to even build forts because you could constantly bombard the base or just build up Layson Island and pound it with SBD's and/or TBF's. Three months to fully prep a Marine Div and it would be Allied again. At this stage of the game you could at best class it as a diversion.

By the way, all the facts I just stated make the case for you to leave Marcus Island alone. It is too far away from supporting bases and Brad could just take it right back. It could become your Hougoumont

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Post #: 1461

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/2/2011 3:22:28 PM

Canoerebel

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11/15/42

Midway: I maximized this garrison many months ago. It has 200 AV, just a tad over 6k troops (which doesn't affect supply level at all), five forts, an ACM, and mines. The garrison consists of an Army RCT and a Marine CD. That's the best I can do. I hear you guys, but I believe you're wrong. At least in Scenario Two when the Japanese have carrier superiority well into '43 and possibly into '44, Midway in their hands is bad news for the Allies if the Allies want any chance of moving in CenPac (and, to a much lesser but still tangible degree, NoPac).

Marcus: Vettim, you're exactly right about Marcus Island, but I'm considering taking it with the full expectation that I won't hold it. Why? Four reasons: (1) I'll garrison the island with a RCT and a Marine CD, which means it will exact a toll on the Japanese in re-taking it; (2) If I take Wake and Marcus, Brad's full attention is going to be that way for awhile; I think this will help the Allies move on Tarawa (forces already prepped at Pearl); (3) according to SigInt, Brad has had just 2k troops at Iwo since the start of the war - attack Marcus and I'll have Brad beefing up security there, an any troops siphoned off the real targets is a bonus; and (4) I want these moves to lend the appearance (along with my build up in the Aleutians) that the Allies are looking this way - CenPac and NoPac. This will be critical come early '43 when the Allies commit a large feint toward the Kuriles while actually moving on Sumatra. Despite all those "worthwhile" goals, I'm still not positive I'll go through with the Marcus invasion.

India: 6th Guards/C evaporated, freeing up those Allied units. They will report to Poona, from where they'll redeploy. Allied troops continue to move forward in all sectors. No signs that the enemy will make a stand anywhere in India, and given Allied air superiority that comes as no surprise (I doubt the Allies would have superiority if Brad committed an equal force to India, but I gather he's focusing on other theaters now). I've moved USN and RN divebombers squadrons to Mangalore, hoping to catch some lingering shipping at nearby Madras.

Oz: The vanguard armored unit is south of Daly Waters, while most of the infantry are three or four hexes east. As the infantry arrive, the armored unit will slip behind, hoping to spook the enemy garrison into retreating. That's the plan, anyhow.

CenPac: The two invasion forces will be crossing into Indian territory in two or three days. Picket services are being provided by several small cargo ships and one destroyer. D-Day at Wake could be as soon as one week, though I'm trying to time this to take place after Brad becomes aware of the threat to Noumea and the presence of the Allied carriers there.

SoPac: The Allied carriers will be just east of Auckland tomorrow, where they'll rendezvous with AOs, bombardment and combat TFs, ASW, and the troop transports. Additional picket ships, including destroyers, are moving toward positions around and north of New Caledonia. Brad's radar should light up with activity over the next three days. If I do this properly, and if Brad isn't way ahead of me through clever deductions and good guesses, he'll think something major is up in SoPac - but my worry is that subs might have given him a whiff of the moves in CenPac.

Wotje: Some empty transports are moving west towards Wotje, and could show up on the radar screens in four days or so. That's the last bit of deception I'm trying.

(in reply to vettim89)

Post #: 1462

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/2/2011 3:32:03 PM

Canoerebel

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NYGiants: I can't help you very much with RAF and RN ASW aircraft. So much costly aerial warfare has taken place in India, which has been the major theater of operations from March 1, 1942 to the present day, November 15, 1942, that I've had very little opportunity for training.

When the Japanese struck early, the British air forces were on their own with inferior aircraft. I lost nearly all bombers and fighters worth fueling, including most of the Hurricanes, Wellington, and Blenheims. I did have a few Audax squadrons and the like, but I tried to hide them at the map's edge, even withdrawing them at times because they were taking up precious airfield space. What was left were committed to frontline duty - no time for training.

As we went into later 1942, the Americans arrived in huge numbers, taking on nearly all responsibility for the air war. The British were eventually able to contribute a few Blenheim squadrons (even with decent pilots and in strikes of 24 and more, these bombers often inflict zero casualties on ground troops) and, of late, some very useful and effective Liberator squadrons.

The patrol squadrons have been very busy flying out of ports like Bombay, Socatra, Surat, and Karachi.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1463

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/2/2011 4:26:36 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89

Three months to fully prep a Marine Div and it would be Allied again. At this stage of the game you could at best class it as a diversion.

By the way, all the facts I just stated make the case for you to leave Marcus Island alone. It is too far away from supporting bases and Brad could just take it right back. It could become your Hougoumont

You could land two divisions of any stripe with 20-30 prep and wipe it clean in a couple of weeks. They get experience, and back at PH re-build quickly if PacFlt is there.

Your comment on the 6000 man limit being a game-changer is spot-on. If you have base forces needed to do constructive work you can't defend the place, and vice versa.

Glad you brought up Marcus I. I've thought that same thing. Too soon, too deep. Those guys are sacrificial lambs.

Edit: wrote this before reading CR's two posts above.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/2/2011 4:31:20 PM >

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(in reply to vettim89)

Post #: 1464

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/2/2011 4:31:17 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Bullwinkle, you'd better back up a few posts to read why I'm targeting Marcus (if I actually do).

Oops, posted this before the Bullwinkle edited his, so now I have to edit mine.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 1465

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/2/2011 4:37:41 PM

Panther Bait

Posts: 654
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline

CR,

Regarding Midway, you might be placing a lot of emphasis on Brad taking Midway because you need/want him focused on CenPac to carry out the Sumatra invasion later. So, you have a reason why you want him to be interested in Midway, but does he have reason to be interested there?

If Brad has no ambitions in CenPac or NorPac (which this late in the game and after the focus on India he almost certainly doesn't) and doesn't feel especially threatened by a move into CenPac or NorPac (right or wrong), then he has little reason to fight you for Midway. He has other options to keep an eye on Pearl. Subs have been so anemic in this game overall that he has little reason to fear an Allied sub-base at Midway, nor a burning desire to create a Japanese one.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
Mike

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When you shoot at a destroyer and miss, it's like hit'in a wildcat in the ass with a banjo.

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(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1466

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/2/2011 4:41:31 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89

Three months to fully prep a Marine Div and it would be Allied again. At this stage of the game you could at best class it as a diversion.

By the way, all the facts I just stated make the case for you to leave Marcus Island alone. It is too far away from supporting bases and Brad could just take it right back. It could become your Hougoumont

You could land two divisions of any stripe with 20-30 prep and wipe it clean in a couple of weeks. They get experience, and back at PH re-build quickly if PacFlt is there.

Your comment on the 6000 man limit being a game-changer is spot-on. If you have base forces needed to do constructive work you can't defend the place, and vice versa.

Glad you brought up Marcus I. I've thought that same thing. Too soon, too deep. Those guys are sacrificial lambs.

Edit: wrote this before reading CR's two posts above.

If you are talking about Midway, not exactly. Either they win on the first day or they attack thereafter without supplies, unless you land supplies daily. This is because two divisions is way beyond the point where all supplies ashore will be taken at the end of the turn by the over stacking penalty.

But - two divisions ought to blast away all enemy forces upon landing. The only reservation I have is that with 20-30% prep I wonder if they will suffer such disruption that even such large forces would be unable to handle a regiment.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 1467

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/2/2011 4:52:34 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

witpqs is right.

Defending small atolls is a booger. You can post just more than 6,000 troops there. It's a real challenge to shoe-horn in enough infantry to defend the place, not to mention some base forces to permit flight operations, and some engineers to build up the forts and any facilities.

That's why I pulled the base force out of Midway. Given it's remote location, all I needed was defensive firepower.

Due to the garrison limit, the defenses on an atoll are almost always going to be light. This should allow a successful attack relatively easily, but the attacking player had better plan ahead to extract the troops in excess of the limit as soon as the island is taken, and to bring in enough supplies to cover any wastage.

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 1468

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/2/2011 4:53:44 PM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

Brad's radar should light up with activity over the next three days. If I do this properly, and if Brad isn't way ahead of me through clever deductions and good guesses, he'll think something major is up in SoPac - but my worry is that subs might have given him a whiff of the moves in CenPac.

Maybe you'll get his attention if the carriers show up outside of Minsk

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(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 1469

RE: One Weird Battle - 2/2/2011 4:56:04 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Minsk....

Brad has started a second WitE PBEM game; this one complete with AAR.

In this game, he's actually keeping up a steady turn-around of a turn a day, and occasionally more; so I really can't complain at this point...though I wish the time he was devoting to Russia was instead going to the game. We'd be well into 1943 by now.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 1470