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REfueling and other tactical errors.

 
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REfueling and other tactical errors. - 1/31/2011 2:23:19 PM   
Larsenex


Posts: 445
Joined: 12/31/2010
Status: offline 		I don't know if this has been address but it happens so often that I am sure it has and there is an answer somewhere. I am at war. All my fleets have 're-supply ships in them. I thought that this was a good idea. Still when I send my fleet to a 'distant' world to conquer, they get in-system and are out of gas, even though they have a resupply ship. Not only that but to actually get them to use the fleets own gas station is very tedious. I have to click on ships then order 'refuel at Insidious', said ships move ZERO speed and when they do all stack up they sit there, and sit there and sit there. I counted maybe 3 months (In a hostile system) and they still were not refueled. Whats up with that and what am I doing wrong? Can somebody explain how to attack/invade a far enemy system and NOT run out of gas before I get there?

One thing I noticed is that re-supply ships have to be 'deployed'. Ok, I tried everything to command it to 'deploy' but nothing. What is the secret?
What am I doing wrong?



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Intel 8700K Oc'd to 4.8ghz
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GTX 1070 w/ 6gigs ram.
Using a cache drive from intel with a 60gig flash & 1 terrabyt hd accelerated.
Post #: 1
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 1/31/2011 2:51:18 PM   
J HG T


Posts: 1093
Joined: 5/14/2010
From: Kiadia Prime
Status: offline 		I assume you haven't used re-supply ships before? Re-supply ships need to be deployed on either gas nebulae or gas giant. After that the ship mines gas (Caslon and/or Hydrogen) and is ready to act as refuelling base. You can check its cargo from ship screen.
It's recommended to deploy them in nebulaes so they only mine one type of gas at the time. Especially if you don't have any special ships in your fleets that might use different type of fuel. 
I haven't had any type of problems with re-supply ships ever, and actually love to use them as command/re-supply ships to provide fuelling and some serious fire- and fighter/bomber-support.


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(in reply to Larsenex)
Post #: 2
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 1/31/2011 2:58:58 PM   
Larsenex


Posts: 445
Joined: 12/31/2010
Status: offline 		Ok I did not know that. So I need to find a Gas Giant OR a gas nebulae and they are 'deploy-able' there? This puts a premium on strategic locations. All of my ships use caslon EXCEPT some of the Capitals that I am refurbishing. Gah a nightmare for logistics. I will try this in game.

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Go for the Eyes Boo!

Intel 8700K Oc'd to 4.8ghz
32 gigs ram
GTX 1070 w/ 6gigs ram.
Using a cache drive from intel with a 60gig flash & 1 terrabyt hd accelerated.

(in reply to J HG T)
Post #: 3
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 1/31/2011 5:02:14 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		yes, but once the refueling ship has it's cargo bays full you can move it anywhere you like and your fleets can refuel at it even the refueling ship itself is moving....all that is needed is fuel in it's cargo bays and docking bays where the other ships can dock
some of the things I've tested are here

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2679442

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...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

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Post #: 4
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 12:02:31 AM   
Larsenex


Posts: 445
Joined: 12/31/2010
Status: offline 		So, just to be CLEAR, its still a good idea to keep a supply ship with each fleet. I can prep for war by having the ships, 'filler up' at the nearest gas giant, top off my cruisers and attack. Now what I would like to know is this. If my fleets have a 'resupply' ship in with them and I give the order to 'prepare and attack bug planet P' will that mean that the ships will top off or just the cruisers?

_____________________________

Go for the Eyes Boo!

Intel 8700K Oc'd to 4.8ghz
32 gigs ram
GTX 1070 w/ 6gigs ram.
Using a cache drive from intel with a 60gig flash & 1 terrabyt hd accelerated.

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 5
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 12:20:38 AM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		It's up to you how you want to use your resupply ships, there are many strategies one can be successful with. I wouldn't build too many of them because they have high maintenance.

I usually have only 2 resupply ships, it really depends how many offensive operations I've got going, so I may sometimes use 3. I create a 'staging' area, which is just a gas giant for my RS ship to deploy. This staging area is usually just outside enemy sensor range maybe about a sector distance. I then post some frigates to defend it and I can then send my fleets back and forth from their target systems.


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Post #: 6
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 2:43:18 AM   
Raap

 

Posts: 404
Joined: 1/12/2011
Status: offline 		I never really bother with resupply ships. Most of my attacks are short-range, usually close to one of my own colonies or gas stations, so I haven't really seen the need. As I'm also usually invading when I'm out fighting, I tend to need both troops and fuel.

(in reply to Igard)
Post #: 7
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 4:10:10 AM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		That's also a point I should've mentioned. RS ships are only for distant invasions. There's not much need when you're only a couple of sectors distance from the system you want to attack. However, using RS ships can mightily speed up your entire invasion if used correctly.

Troops are a whole different matter. If I run out of them, I usually just build some more transports and then send them to the staging area where they can join a fleet. It's always troops that I need to manage, which I don't find so hard, but it can slow down my invasion. And the Romulan Senate doesn't like that one bit.


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The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

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Post #: 8
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 2:33:23 PM   
hewwo

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 4/22/2010
Status: offline 		Ugh.. I find the whole business of micromanaging fuel and troops etc. to be much to tedious. I'm all for the concept of fuel, really, its just that in the current implementation too often I'll find my ships being out of fuel at unexpected moments. Oh well. Maybe next patch :)

(in reply to Igard)
Post #: 9
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 3:04:46 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		was just about to reply but I don't think I'll open this particular pandora's box again

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Post #: 10
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 4:06:34 PM   
cmdrnarrain

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 4/21/2010
Status: offline 		The deal with fuel is that I doubt most new players want to micromanage fuel as they have enough to micromanage already without constantly checking to see if their ships are doing what their are suppose too.

Veteran players may have found work arounds, but it is still a pain the ass and only distracts from overall game enjoyment.

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Post #: 11
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 4:37:14 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

The deal with fuel is that I doubt most new players want to micromanage fuel as they have enough to micromanage already without constantly checking to see if their ships are doing what their are suppose too.

Veteran players may have found work arounds, but it is still a pain the ass and only distracts from overall game enjoyment.


Not everyone agrees with this.

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(in reply to cmdrnarrain)
Post #: 12
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 4:56:02 PM   
Larsenex


Posts: 445
Joined: 12/31/2010
Status: offline 		What I want to know is when I tell a fleet to prepare and attack, what does that mean? Will the fleet refuel just PRIOR to attack and thus ensuring it will have fuel for the attack (every) time? If this is the case I am fine with it. Otherwise what does Prepare and Attack mean if not get sufficient fuel?

_____________________________

Go for the Eyes Boo!

Intel 8700K Oc'd to 4.8ghz
32 gigs ram
GTX 1070 w/ 6gigs ram.
Using a cache drive from intel with a 60gig flash & 1 terrabyt hd accelerated.

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 13
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 4:58:31 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		it means exactly that, Larsenex, it will refuel and repair prior to atttacking

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...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

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Post #: 14
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 10:57:56 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Another thing I do with RS ships is set one of them as quick key '0' and I've got my fleets as '1' to '9'. I can then quickly jump to my RS staging area, by pressing '0' twice and then select my fleet and move them straight there to get refuelled. It's very easy and can be done in less than 5 seconds.

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The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

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Post #: 15
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 11:07:01 PM   
hewwo

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 4/22/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3


quote:

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

The deal with fuel is that I doubt most new players want to micromanage fuel as they have enough to micromanage already without constantly checking to see if their ships are doing what their are suppose too.

Veteran players may have found work arounds, but it is still a pain the ass and only distracts from overall game enjoyment.


Not everyone agrees with this.



Well.. I think everybody would agree that, without reducing the strategic interestingness that the current resupply system brings (I'm not advocating dumbing it down!), fleet management could be handled a bit more intuitively :)

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 16
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 11:19:07 PM   
Raap

 

Posts: 404
Joined: 1/12/2011
Status: offline 		Can't really say I've had any problems with fuel myself. I fully manage my own fleets( and have a few single ships on automation to do patrols and such), and fuel has never been a problem. I usually put one or two additional fuel cells on my designs and have my fleets hotkeyed to 1-9. When I'm fighting a war, I simply press the respective button for the fleet I want, see if it has enough fuel, then use ctrl-right-click and 'goto nearest refueling point' if I judge it insufficient. Short time later it's ready to fight. Takes me like 3 clicks and a couple of seconds of my time.

(in reply to hewwo)
Post #: 17
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 11:45:03 PM   
Larsenex


Posts: 445
Joined: 12/31/2010
Status: offline 		How can I tell if a fleet is topped off? How do I assign a fleet or ship a hotkey?

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Go for the Eyes Boo!

Intel 8700K Oc'd to 4.8ghz
32 gigs ram
GTX 1070 w/ 6gigs ram.
Using a cache drive from intel with a 60gig flash & 1 terrabyt hd accelerated.

(in reply to Raap)
Post #: 18
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/1/2011 11:49:13 PM   
Raap

 

Posts: 404
Joined: 1/12/2011
Status: offline 		You assign hotkeys by first selecting the ships( or in this case the fleet, using the 'cycle through fleets' filter in the lower-left corner), then holding ctrl and pressing a number. You can tell how much fuel they have by the green bars that is shown next to the ships in the lower-left window. If you, like me, mostly just use one type of ships in a fleet, then they'll all have pretty much completely even fuel levels, making it easier to decide when to refuel.

(in reply to Larsenex)
Post #: 19
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/2/2011 12:58:45 AM   
Larsenex


Posts: 445
Joined: 12/31/2010
Status: offline 		Yes I tend to have all destroyer fleets and all cruisers and my invasions are all transports with 2 or 3 cruisers or 1 capital.

_____________________________

Go for the Eyes Boo!

Intel 8700K Oc'd to 4.8ghz
32 gigs ram
GTX 1070 w/ 6gigs ram.
Using a cache drive from intel with a 60gig flash & 1 terrabyt hd accelerated.

(in reply to Raap)
Post #: 20
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/2/2011 1:17:40 AM   
hewwo

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 4/22/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raap

If you, like me, mostly just use one type of ships in a fleet, then they'll all have pretty much completely even fuel levels, making it easier to decide when to refuel.


Actually, I haven't thought of that yet. Would make things a bit easier to manage. On the other hand, I love building mixed fleets. If not because they better then from a role playing pov!

(in reply to Raap)
Post #: 21
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/2/2011 4:34:58 AM   
Abraxis

 

Posts: 96
Joined: 1/25/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hewwo

Actually, I haven't thought of that yet. Would make things a bit easier to manage. On the other hand, I love building mixed fleets. If not because they better then from a role playing pov!


I find them WAY better. I've been playing around with a sniper frigate & tank destroyer combo to some great success. I'll put only one shield on the frigates, then pack on engines/thrusters and missiles, set them to standoff so they kite enemy ships out of their weapon range, all the while hurling volleys of missiles their way. The Destroyers I set to point blank and load them with a TONN of shields, and 2 or 3 torpedoes.

Works like a charm, the enemy focuses on the heavily defended destroyers while the lite frigates zoom around the outside raining death and destruction on everything.

Once I get cruisers I might even just use one cruiser, packed with shields and a few area weapons as the tank.

You could also throw in a dedicated fighter carrier who will sit off to the side while the swarm adds to the destruction.

(in reply to hewwo)
Post #: 22
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/2/2011 7:19:47 AM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I use mixed fleets as well and find them more combat effective. I think for the purposes of learning the game it might be best for Larsenex and others to try out the all destroyer fleets to get used to things first.


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The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

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Post #: 23
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/2/2011 5:11:10 PM   
Johnnycai


Posts: 10
Joined: 1/26/2011
Status: offline 		Hi All,
My 1st post, awesome game, am trying to wade in slowly but...
I think mixing fleets may be the source of my early frustrations, the range being limited to the lowest ranged class.
Have been modifying, but havent delved to deeply yet except to sub-in newest shields/beams.
Having fleets of each class, making them gather at staging area and then sending in to the target systems in waves might just allow me to better implement my tactical plans for the bugs.
Now I am thinking of using a few heavy shield/low weapon 'baiting' heavy ships to allow my fast-hitters to get more damage in...so many possibilities.
This forum is very helpful and appears responsive to everyone



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Post #: 24
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/2/2011 5:18:00 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		especially so to tactical inovations like yours, Johnnycai
nice baiting maneuvre, fine debut you made....great potential in you I see

welcome to the game and community

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Johnnycai)
Post #: 25
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/2/2011 6:23:03 PM   
Larsenex


Posts: 445
Joined: 12/31/2010
Status: offline 		I keep the fleets all one type simply for ease of managment. I really like the tank/stand off methood. Sounds very cool. Gonna have to try. What I usually do is just warp in with a heavy cruiser assault force and blunt force trauma my way, then I send in invader fleets which have 10 transports and one cruiser as lead to assume new managment of the new premises......

_____________________________

Go for the Eyes Boo!

Intel 8700K Oc'd to 4.8ghz
32 gigs ram
GTX 1070 w/ 6gigs ram.
Using a cache drive from intel with a 60gig flash & 1 terrabyt hd accelerated.

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 26
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/2/2011 7:30:01 PM   
Caesar_Augustus


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/29/2005
From: Henneth Anûn
Status: offline 		Yes, the Rebellion--err, the Empire, I mean , could use a good pilot like you,
as a brilliant tactical and strategical officer! Welcome aboard, sir...

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 27
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/2/2011 7:34:46 PM   
Chet Guiles

 

Posts: 267
Joined: 6/14/2002
From: Southern CA
Status: offline 		I have a problem getting resupply ships to deploy at gas nebulae, while they do so without an issue at gas giants. Is there some special trick to convince them to deploy at gas nebulae?

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Post #: 28
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/2/2011 7:59:50 PM   
J HG T


Posts: 1093
Joined: 5/14/2010
From: Kiadia Prime
Status: offline 		Push ctrl+right-click-->deploy. Should work when deploying in gas nebulaes. Ctrl:ng helps on other situations too, like crowded spaceports when the cursor freaks out.
Just make sure you deploy the ship in right kind of nebulaeas. resupply ship full of hydrogen when your ships use caslon just bites.



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Nothing is impossible, not if you can imagine it!
"And they hurled themselves into the void of space with no fear."

(in reply to Chet Guiles)
Post #: 29
RE: REfueling and other tactical errors. - 2/2/2011 8:21:18 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		yap, especially since you cannot even dump the cargo content out in space to at least make room....come to think of it, I think we should be able to do this no?

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to J HG T)
Post #: 30
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