Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

But here is an idea on peskpesk’s post #154. (Feel free to flame me on this bit of Rule Lawership)

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5.1 Trade agreements
Japan-USA
The USA and Japan start the game with an agreement in place to exchange a Japanese build point for US resources. The USA must supply Japan with 4 resources each turn. Two of them must be oil resources. These amounts can be reduced, or avoided entirely, by certain US entry options (see 13.3.2 US entry options). Japan must lend lease the USA with 1 build point a turn until the USA embargoes strategic materials (see 13.3.2 US entry options, entry option 13 Embargo on strategic materials).


To avoid US entry penalties (see below), the USA must have enough convoy points in the West Coast, Mendocino, Hawaiian Islands and Central Pacific ocean sea areas to transport the resources to Japan. Similarly, Japan must have enough convoy points in the Japanese Coast sea area to transport the build point to the USA.

Ship the resources from the Philippines to Japan using the 2 CP.

USA – 12x CP (6x Tankers, 6x CP)
Honolulu – 15x CP (7x Tankers, 8x CP)


Venezuela-USA Trade agreement
Oil resource to USA (1x Tanker from USA) Coast of Venezuela - Caribbean Sea – Port of Mobile
Oil resource to USA (1x Tanker from USA) Coast of Venezuela - Caribbean Sea - Port of New Orleans
Oil resource to USA (1x Tanker from USA) Coast of Venezuela - Caribbean Sea – Port of Saint Louis


Japan-USA Trade agreement

1 Build point from Japan (4x CP) Central Pacific (1x CP from Honolulu) - Hawaiian Islands (1x CP from Honolulu) – Mendocino (1x CP from USA) – West Coast (1x CP from USA) – Port of San Francisco

2 Oil resources to Japan (8x Tankers) Port of San Francisco - West Coast (2x Tankers from USA) – Mendocino (2x Tankers from Honolulu) – Hawaiian Islands (2x Tankers from Honolulu) – Central Pacific (2x Tankers from Honolulu)

1 resource to Japan (4x CP) Port of San Francisco - West Coast (1x CP from USA) – Mendocino (1x CP from USA) – Hawaiian Islands (1x CP from Honolulu) – Central Pacific (1x CP from Honolulu)

1 resource to Japan (2x CP) Coast of Philippines – Bismarck Sea (1x CP from Honolulu) - The Marianas (1x CP from Honolulu)


This would change the reserve to 1x Tanker and 4x CP. And you would be able to save 1x Oil per turn.

quote:

5.1 Trade agreements
Japan-USA
The USA and Japan start the game with an agreement in place to exchange a Japanese build point for US resources. The USA must supply Japan with 4 resources each turn. Two of them must be oil resources. These amounts can be reduced, or avoided entirely, by certain US entry options (see 13.3.2 US entry options). Japan must lend lease the USA with 1 build point a turn until the USA embargoes strategic materials (see 13.3.2 US entry options, entry option 13 Embargo on strategic materials).


To avoid US entry penalties (see below), the USA must have enough convoy points in the West Coast, Mendocino, Hawaiian Islands and Central Pacific ocean sea areas to transport the resources to Japan. Similarly, Japan must have enough convoy points in the Japanese Coast sea area to transport the build point to the USA.

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13.3.2 US Entry Options and 13.3.3 US Entry Actions

Sept/Oct 1939 1st Impulse

1939 From Froonp’s PionsWiF-Aif-PatiF Excel spreadsheet
1 Zero 3%
9 Ones 30%
7 Twos 23%
6 Threes 20%
6 Fours 20%
1 Five 3%

It has been stated the average US entry chit draw is a 2. Even if all the twos are drawn the average will not change much since the lower numbers will not be selected.

Therefore to use an average for the US entry chit value for the start up US entry pool drawings is misleading.

In other words your start up using an average US entry chit value of 2 would look like this:

US entry pool Ge/It 2 + 2 = 4
US entry pool Ja 2


Using a chit combination system the results are not the same.

Single chit combination
Total value of chits (71) divided by number of chits (30) = Average value of chit 2.4 rounded down to 2

Two-chit combination

To get a total of 1 there is a 2% chance for 1 possible combination (0,1)
To get a total of 2 there is an 8% chance for 5 possible combinations (1x 0,2; 4x 1,1)
To get a total of 3 there is an 11% chance for 7 possible combinations (1x 0,3; 6x 1,2)
To get a total of 4 there is a 20% chance for 13 possible combinations (1x 0,4; 6x 1,3; 3x 2,2)
To get a total of 5 there is a 20% chance for 13 possible combinations (1x 0,5; 6x 1,4; 6x 2,3)
To get a total of 6 there is a 16% chance for 10 possible combinations (1x 1,5; 6x 2,4; 3x 3,3)
To get a total of 7 there is an 11% chance for 7 possible combinations (1x 2,5; 6x 3,4)
To get a total of 8 there is an 11% chance for 7 possible combinations (3,5; 4,4)
To get a total of 9 there is a 2% chance for 1 possible combination (0,5)

Example: To get a total of 2 there is an 8% chance for 5 possible combinations (1x 0,2; 4x 1,1).
Means that there is an 8% chance for 1 two-chit combination (0,2) and 4 Two-chit combinations (1,1) that will equal 2 when you draw.

Low Two-chit combination total 1 (0, 1) plus High Two-chit combination total 9 (4, 5) divided by number of chits drawn (2) = Average value of two chits 5

US entry pool Ge/It 5
US entry pool Ja 2

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9.3 Compulsory declarations
Germany must declare war on Poland in the first impulse of any game that starts in Sep/Oct 1939. No major power may make any other declaration of war in that impulse.

France and the Commonwealth must declare war on Germany on their first impulse after Germany has declared war on Poland. No major power may make any other declarations of war in that impulse.

Axis Side
Japan can declare that Siam is aligning with Japan during any Axis declaration of war step if Siam is neutral.

9.3 Compulsory declarations
20. Germany declares war on Poland (1 US entry chit added and a 20% chance a second US entry chit will be added to the US entry pool (Ge/It).


Allied Side
9.3 Compulsory declarations
25. CW or France or both declare war on Germany (90% chance a US entry chit will be removed from the US entry pool Ge/It)

Possible
13.3.3 US Entry Actions:
26. USSR controls East Poland (70% chance a US entry chit will be removed from the US entry pool Ge/It) (This option must be chosen before 27. USSR controls Nazi-Soviet Pact areas (the Balkan States))
27. USSR controls Nazi-Soviet Pact areas (the Balkan States) (40% chance a US entry chit will be removed from the US entry pool Ge/It)

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

I will always build a factory early with the USA. Look at the production multipliers. As soon as the US can gear up, that factory pays back 1 BP (or more) a turn for the entire remainder of the game. A Synth by comparison - is a complete waste.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

I will always build a factory early with the USA. Look at the production multipliers. As soon as the US can gear up, that factory pays back 1 BP (or more) a turn for the entire remainder of the game. A Synth by comparison - is a complete waste.

Should I include that as an Economic Option?

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Strategies

Maintain at least 2x US entry markers in the Ge/It entry pool and 1x US entry marker Ja entry pool to receive the benefit from the entry and tension pools.

The entry and tension pools

The US has a Japanese entry pool and a Germany/Italy entry pool. Your entry level against an Axis major power equals 1.5 times the value of the markers you’ve put in its entry pool plus half the value of the markers in the other pool.

The primary strategy of the United States in World War II that should be given to the defeat of the Axis powers.

2x US entry markers in the Ge/It entry pool, 1 US entry marker Ja in the entry pool.

Asia first strategy: New US entry markers would be placed in the Ja entry pool as long as 1x US entry marker is in the Ge/It entry pool.

Balanced strategy: New US entry markers would be divided between the Ge/It and the Ja entry pool trying to maintain a 1 to 1 ratio.

Europe first strategy: New US entry markers would be placed in the Ge/It entry pool as long as 1x US entry marker is in the Ja entry pool.



Repair Pool
CV Saratoga 2bp/2 turns
BB Maryland 2bp/2 turns
BB Colorado 2bp/2 turns


Scrap all: BF2C, F3F, SBC-4, P-26, and P-35.


Production

The USA starts with 10 Build points (bp) and 1 from the Japan-US trade agreement for a total 11bp.

Asia first strategy: Production would be centered on Naval units.

Balanced strategy: Production would be divided between air units and Naval units.

Europe first strategy: Production would be centered on air units.

(These may be substituted for any of the above strategies)
Economic option Synth-oil: Synth-oil 8bp/6 turns; 1x CP 3bp/3 turns
Economic option Factory: Factory 8bp/4 turns; 1x CP 3bp/3 turns (from 22.2 Factory destruction & construction (option 30) WiFFE-RAW-7.pdf)

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

I will always build a factory early with the USA. Look at the production multipliers. As soon as the US can gear up, that factory pays back 1 BP (or more) a turn for the entire remainder of the game. A Synth by comparison - is a complete waste.

Should I include that as an Economic Option?

Sure. No self-respecting U.S. AI should be without it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

I will always build a factory early with the USA. Look at the production multipliers. As soon as the US can gear up, that factory pays back 1 BP (or more) a turn for the entire remainder of the game. A Synth by comparison - is a complete waste.

Should I include that as an Economic Option?

Sure. No self-respecting U.S. AI should be without it.

In 1944 USA often produces 80BP per turn, isn't that enough already? The 8BP you spend for another factory can be used to build CVs, CVPs, airplanes for when USA enter the war. In 1941-42, you need those 8BPs to be on map as ships or airplanes, etc, that counts also.

quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

Hi Shannon, this figures can be taken a way or other I guess. In the end it pays off BP wise, it begins to payoff in SO43? In SO43, we may already know which side will win, in some cases the fact that USA have 13 more or so BPs or not at this point will not necessarly change the situation. What's the point for USA to have more BPs in 1943 and later if USSR is destroyed in 1942 for example?

Or let's say Japan takes Honolulu and Pago Pago in the beginning of 1942 because you did not garrison them adequately? Would someone regret that factory he built early?

1BP in 1939 is worth more than 1BP in 1944 strategically speaking, if you count that the armies early on are much smaller.

Just my 2 cents.

quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

Personaly I am not convinced this is the best strategy for the USA, I mean building and additional factory. I would rather spent those BPs on something else. I do not want to penalize my early fleet build, I want to have as many CV, BBs and CVP ready as possible for when I enter the war especially against the japanese, there are builds I don't want to delay and BPs are scarce on the early turns. This is my personal opinion of course, it's worth what it's worth, but I would not say this strategy is bad, just that I do not think that the USA should use this strategy in every campaign.

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ORIGINAL: lordzyplon

You mean GAR, right? MIL come in when war is declared.

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ORIGINAL: brian brian

what's this about sending the Philippine resource to Japan? I thought the rules basically dictate setting up the convoys to send it from the USA?

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As I wrote before, I build the Synth and never a factory. I play with RaW oil and the west will need all it can get by the end, even after picking the entry option for lending to the CW and sending as much oil as possible to Canada for storage. Having the US Synth early makes it easier to lend to the CW and USSR, and that's where the game is won or lost.....in the middle years of the war, on the European map, and without a lot of the green counters yet. A guaranteed extra resource in the USA is better than dicey convoy lines to some of the ones in the CW empire.

quote:

5.1 Trade agreements
Japan-USA
The USA and Japan start the game with an agreement in place to exchange a Japanese build point for US resources. (A) The USA must supply Japan with 4 resources each turn. Two of them must be oil resources. These amounts can be reduced, or avoided entirely, by certain US entry options (see 13.3.2 US entry options). Japan must lend lease the USA with 1 build point a turn until the USA embargoes strategic materials (see 13.3.2 US entry options, entry option 13. Embargo on strategic materials).

(B) To avoid US entry penalties (see below), the USA must have enough convoy points in the West Coast, Mendocino, Hawaiian Islands and Central Pacific ocean sea areas to transport the resources to Japan. Similarly, Japan must have enough convoy points in the Japanese Coast sea area to transport the build point to the USA.

quote:

Shannon V. Okeets

What are the numbers in the far right column?

1 ~ Turn 1
s ~ September/October
Build Synth Oil
-8 ~ Cost 8bp
-8 ~ ???

quote:

Original: michaelbaldur

(A) Another important thing is US gearing. if you start with a synth/factories you will destroy your naval gearing...

And it will take a year to be up to 5-6 naval units a turn. Which means around 20 less naval units between sep 39 and 41 ...

it also means that USA can’t build as many TRS/AMPH (Transports/Amphibious units) before the war starts.


How that there are the same hexes everywhere... The range from the USA has changed, which means that must planes can’t rebase to UK or to the pacific...

so USA need all of it’s TRS and AMPH...

this is mostly because the American map was not at the right scale...

(b) So if I were a German player and I see that USA losses it’s naval gearing... I would react by not DOW on Denmark... which means that USA can’t rebase though Greenland... and force them to sail all air units ...with it’s fewer transporters ...


Another point with the changes to the American map is that USA need to use more naval moves. Because USA reinforcements are spread out in more cities....

So the USA almost always needs to use a naval or super combined to get their reinforcement sent to the battlefields...

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13.6.5 Building units
Naval units
The production cost of convoys is not shown on the counter. They take only one cycle to produce and cost 1 build point per convoy point. They take 4 turns to build. If you aren’t playing with Ships in Flames you have to build them in multiples of 5.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
Axis Side
Possible 13.3.3 US Entry Actions:
20. Germany declares war on Denmark (30% chance a US entry chit will be added to the US entry pool Ge/It)

Allied Side
Possible 13.3.3 US Entry Actions:
31. USSR declares war on Persia (90% chance a US entry chit will be removed from the US entry pool Ge/It)
31. USSR declares war on Turkey (2 US entry chits removed and an 50% chance a third US entry chit will be removed from the US entry pool Ge/It)
32. CW declares war on Denmark (50% chance a US entry chit will be removed from the US entry pool Ge/It for each DoW)
32. CW declares war on Estonia, Latvia, or Lithuania (50% chance a US entry chit will be removed from the US entry pool Ge/It for each DoW)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
Axis Side
Possible 13.3.3 US Entry Actions:
20. Germany declares war on Denmark (30% chance a US entry chit will be added to the US entry pool Ge/It)

Allied Side
Possible 13.3.3 US Entry Actions:
31. USSR declares war on Persia (90% chance a US entry chit will be removed from the US entry pool Ge/It)
31. USSR declares war on Turkey (2 US entry chits removed and an 50% chance a third US entry chit will be removed from the US entry pool Ge/It)
32. CW declares war on Denmark (50% chance a US entry chit will be removed from the US entry pool Ge/It for each DoW)
32. CW declares war on Estonia, Latvia, or Lithuania (50% chance a US entry chit will be removed from the US entry pool Ge/It for each DoW)

What's this ? Which sane Russian player would DoD Turkey in S/O 39 ? or at all ?
Same for the CW declaring war as above.

Where is this going ????