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1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR!

 
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1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR! - 2/5/2011 7:13:36 PM   
Mraah

 

Posts: 1085
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline 		Has this been mentioned in previous betas ?

When some of my colonies rebelled, they took half my fleets .... kinda.
I was still able to click and control the fleets via fleet commands, but the ships in the fleet were owned by the new Empire.

Very interesting little burp ... I exploited this and attacked other Empires for kicks and grins, with no diplomatic negatives for me, but for those rebels, HA!



< Message edited by Mraah -- 2/5/2011 10:05:17 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after Rebellion - 2/5/2011 7:20:22 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		interesting, never heard of this before...those fleets were in the same systems as the rebelling colonies? did they have the home system set to them? it sounds like it's wad, it would be cool to find the commonality...do you have a saved game you can upload?

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Mraah)
Post #: 2
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after Rebellion - 2/5/2011 8:14:09 PM   
Mraah

 

Posts: 1085
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

interesting, never heard of this before...those fleets were in the same systems as the rebelling colonies? did they have the home system set to them? it sounds like it's wad, it would be cool to find the commonality...do you have a saved game you can upload?


Yes, I have a saved game I can post ... but it was a few months(game time) after it happened ... for the most part, the fleets sat dormant at their current location so I didn't touch them since, except after the saved game where I fooled with them to see how far I can go.

The fleets weren't all at the worlds that rebelled, and not all the fleets remained in my control (I think?).
The fleets were visible and selectable by me, but the ships were shown as belonging to the new empire.
I can do all the fleet commands... ie refuel, refit (they did proceed to my port when this happened), attack, etc.

Now, the fleets weren't visible on the new Fleet Window (on the left) and they weren't consuming any of my maintenance cost.

At first, I thought there was a new Intelligence thing going on ... you know, "Incite a rebellion on a ship" ... now that would be a cool new feature.

I'll post the save soon, in about an hour, unless you prefer a PM ?

Thanks! ... I love DW despite it quirks ... Support is great and the community is very freindly.

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 3
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after Rebellion - 2/5/2011 8:26:59 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		great feedback from yourself also, Mraah
now it sounds more like a bug...you should upload the save to the Matrix ftp site
and yes, that would be a cool idea and I would also like to see ship rebellion; you should wishlist this, I'm pretty confident it didn't came out before

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Mraah)
Post #: 4
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR - 2/5/2011 10:05:04 PM   
Mraah

 

Posts: 1085
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline 		The save game is too large to upload (even zipped)... 21,364 kb ...
I've been playing the same game non-stop since 4b came out ... It's the first unusual event I've seen.

Here's the filefront link, zipped ... http://www.filefront.com/17900717/Rebel_Fleet.zip

Technically, it was a Civil War when this occurred ... (I editted thread title accordingly)

The New Empire is called Villaceya Kingdom ... the message history shows the Civil War occurred on star date 2789.10.01 .

To located the Fleets I mentioned, opened the new fleet window on left and compare the list below ...
Below is a list that I found I was able to control (shows I own fleet, not ships) ...
You can see how the Fleet names are in their color, the Fleet Symbology is my color;

- 4th Capitol @ Surunea system.
- 13th Fleet @ Yogame.
- 17th Fleet @ Slukis.
- 19th Fleet @ Boskar.
- 20th Fleet @ Rhudus.

Hope this helps!

< Message edited by Mraah -- 2/5/2011 10:06:00 PM >

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 5
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR - 2/5/2011 10:13:39 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		great, Mraah, already downloaded it....not sure when I'll have the time to look at it but I will look at it because it sounds like a fun new thing (not fun for your empire, granted, but interesting in the great scheme of things).
Matrix also has a way to do this, check out the below threads for the future

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2648985
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2415085

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Mraah)
Post #: 6
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR - 2/6/2011 12:30:45 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		ok, Mraah, I couldn't help it and jumped in. It seems that in my case your issue does not reproduce, first impressions below:

1) I checked all the fleets mentioned by you, both at the fleet and ship level, and could not find them both in the fleet screen or in the fleet filter on the toolbar

2) I opened the editor and selected the Villaceya Kingdom, checked it's ships and sure enough they were were you said they would be but they were properly displayed as belonging to the Villaceya Kingdom (color, emblem, the works); same for the fleets. Also, I could not issue any orders for them as expected.

Perharps Elliot or someone else can check also to see if this can be reproduced anywhere else. I kinda hoped to reproduce this and try with a saved game before 2789.10.01:

1) see if disbanding the fleets prevents this

2) assuming that when an x% from your empire goes away an equivalent x% from your feelt goes as well, I was curios to see what would happen if you scraped the ships (or any other number of ships to reduce the entire no of your military ships). Would other ships change sides or none?

3) indeed, not all these fleets were in your systems but wanted to check if they all had the home system set for a defecting colony or not; maybe change it to a more stable colony will keep them with you when the rebellion occurs.

Do you have a saved game before 2789.10.01? Maybe if I load that and go through the rebellion I get the same results as you.

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 7
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR - 2/6/2011 2:06:19 PM   
Mraah

 

Posts: 1085
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline 		Unfortuantely I don't have an immediate before/after saved game ... I discovered the ability to select and control the fleet well after it happened and that was by curoiusity since their since were sitting idle.

I'll run some checks you mentioned and let you know.

Now ... Since you're not seeing this I would assume it's not something that's carried over in a saved game ... I have a little theory, based on the different versions of DW.

I have the original DW (v1.3 something) ... When I first installed ROS I was running a beta of DW (v1.4 something) ... At this point, ROS ran really buggy ... So, I uninstalled everything, reinstalled DW and patched it to the latest, then reinstalled ROS and patched it to the latest. At this point, I started to install the ROS beta's in order, on top of each other (ie not a clean install). Now, I did note(earlier), went I uninstalled ROS there was no option to uninstall DW ... Looking in the DW directory(main folder) it still had files residing there. I must say, when I removed every bit of the main DW folder (since there was no uninstall option) the bugs were less frequent.

Perhaps I'm seeing this because of file changes between the betas not behaving properly?

What I can do is this ;
- Uninstall both ROS and DW ... ensure main DW folder gone.
- Reinstall DW, patch to 1.0.6
- Reinstall ROS, patch to lastest(release), then skip the interim betas and load 1.0.4b ... And then, reload my saved game.

It's an awefully "busy" theory but perhaps it's the reason why I have a bug, you don't, the other's might, and etc, etc.

Before I do that, I wait for any suggestions from you.

Thanks.

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 8
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR - 2/6/2011 2:23:30 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		I like this plan because it will be kinda how we all upgraded the game naturally up to this point. It shouldn't behave this way but it's hard to argue with practical observations and your's were very accurate
I think it's a good plan...I'm inclined to bellive you'll not see this after these steps when you load the saved game, really curious to see if it works

one suggestion, after unistalling and removing the game folder....look in the /Documents and Settings for "Code Force"....more stuff to clean in there (saved games and settings); after that you should be ready to begin the reinstall

fingers crossed

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Mraah)
Post #: 9
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR - 2/6/2011 7:18:48 PM   
Mraah

 

Posts: 1085
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline 		Data,

I did as suggested ...
- Uninstalled DW
- Deleted DW folder
- Deleted Code Force folder
- Installed DW 1.0.4.9
- Updated DW 1.0.6
- Installed ROS
- Updated ROS 1.5.0.1
- Updated ROS 1.5.0.4b

Now ... Slightly different (but the same) ... I can't see the Fleet names but the enemy Fleet (when clicked on) can be controlled. I went to the Rhudus system, which had an 8 ship fleet (emblem in my color, light blue), this was the 20th Fleet. I told the fleet to refit, it went to the Rhudus 5 Spaceport ... Now, after the ships docked I no longer had access to the fleet, and they promptly refitted and zoomed off.

Since I didn't have the saved before/after game I can remember the chain of events that I performed when the Civil War message appeared ;
- Note: All my Fleets were on MANUAL CONTROL.
- Acknowledged the Civil War message
- Paused the game
- Negotiated a Peace (he gave me 200,000 and I gave him 300,000)
- War over
- Unpaused game

Maybe I interrupted something, I don't know.
I'm still surprised you can't dupe this ... oh well, chock this up as an Inter-Galactic Incident

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 10
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR - 2/6/2011 8:32:56 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		This is like a quest game, we have one more clue....for Elliot
since the save is available and the thread in the right place I hope at least one other will try to dup it....to make sure it can or can't be dup'ed
can't imagine why pausing can affect this but atm everything is on the table.....since it's not a game breaker for you I concur on the "chock this up as an Inter-Galactic Incident" part

i have a nasty feeling weird bugs and unique game experiences will find you
hope you'll be well in the end

< Message edited by Data -- 2/6/2011 8:33:46 PM >

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Mraah)
Post #: 11
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR! - 2/7/2011 8:11:56 AM   
Mraah

 

Posts: 1085
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline 		Data,

Thanks for your time on this ... Yeah, not a game breaker. Looking at the other threads about fleets misbehaving it all might all be under the same category.

If you have a moment, I do have three off topic issues that I've seen and I'm wondering if you've been there and done that sort of thing ....

1. INSTANT FLEET CREATION -
Ok, this is kinda funny and definately can be overlooked ... follow these steps ...
- Start a New game. Ensure that fleet building is set to have the advisor suggest new ships.
- Once the game starts, pause it, then select your space port and scrap it ... I'll explain.
- Next, select your colony and build a large space port.
- Don't do anything ... When the advisor popup suggesting new ships appears, don't click on it.
- Ok, wait for it ... wait for it ... wait for the space port to have around "16 Unbuilt" shown (might be able to do this sooner, it was 16 when I did it).
- Click the advisor message and select OK to build the ships ... viola! .. instant fleet ... well, a few ships might still be in the shop but instant fleet non-the-less.

2. Cheaper Pirate Colony Location
- When you start a new game, your income cash bank can be rather slim. Usually, a pirate will offer a colonies location for 10k ... Well, if your balance is below 10k he'll tell you that you don't have the cash, so just "discuss something else .... then purchase info and you'll see that the pirate is now offering 5k for the colony info.

3. Unbuilt Ships Leaving dock too Early
- This happens because I've added a ship that's being built to a fleet that already has a ship active. When I tell the fleet to do something, the ship still being built will eventually bust out of dock with parts missing. I've seen this at the start of the game mostly with a destroyer... usually around "9 Unbuilt" it will undock and fly off to perform the mission.

So ... have you been there and done that?

(in reply to Mraah)
Post #: 12
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR! - 2/7/2011 8:55:39 AM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		1. never done it myslef with fleets, I think there is anoter guy on the forum that found this. The ideea afaik is that once you've got the manufacturer/construction yard components built you can start building ships even if the space port itself is not completed. You can check this with other functional components in every ship / space station design

At some point, one of us noticed that the components are built in the order you place them in the design..so if you put them in the desired order you can see interesting effects - someone even reported unfinished ships leaving the docks and chasing enemies and all sorts of stuff

2. yap, we all use that "exloit" also - I think it's wad

3. ahaa, just read this and saw it's kinda covered in the response to 1....funny but yeah, still doable; not sure if it's a bug per se, I like the ideea of going to war in a bucket with warp drives and a pee wee gun (even Enterprise did that at one momment). Wad also.

< Message edited by Data -- 2/7/2011 9:04:13 AM >

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Mraah)
Post #: 13
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR! - 2/7/2011 9:56:51 AM   
Mraah

 

Posts: 1085
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

1. never done it myslef with fleets, I think there is anoter guy on the forum that found this. The ideea afaik is that once you've got the manufacturer/construction yard components built you can start building ships even if the space port itself is not completed. You can check this with other functional components in every ship / space station design

At some point, one of us noticed that the components are built in the order you place them in the design..so if you put them in the desired order you can see interesting effects - someone even reported unfinished ships leaving the docks and chasing enemies and all sorts of stuff



... I was working on a theory that the longer you leave the advisor's suggestion in the cue, he'll build the ships behind your back ... When you say "Make it so!" ... he'll say "Done" ... you'll say, "Here's your Christmas bonus" ... thank you very much!

Makes you wonder if Elliot coded the advisor's to ruin your day! ...

ADVISOR : I suggest 10 new Capitol Ships.
ME : Ah ... ok.
(message popup) ... complete.
(message popup) ... CIVIL WAR! ... Capitol Fleet converts!
ME : Where's my construction advisor?
ADVISOR : ...... your call cannot be completed... I suggest you redial and try again.

Anyway ... Thanks again Data ... I'll let you get back on track!

Good morning!

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 14
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR! - 2/7/2011 10:09:02 AM   
J HG T


Posts: 1093
Joined: 5/14/2010
From: Kiadia Prime
Status: offline 		OTHER ADVISOR: Emperors wife seems to be gone missing also
ME: 'Facepalm'

Never used this exploit myself (Honestly, haven't even known about it until now), and it's also kinda hard to pull off for what it's worth. So no thanks, I'm man of honor.  
Haven't run into the 3th bug ever (unbuilt ships flying around), not even with original DW. Sounds strange.


_____________________________

Nothing is impossible, not if you can imagine it!
"And they hurled themselves into the void of space with no fear."

(in reply to Mraah)
Post #: 15
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR! - 2/7/2011 10:38:46 AM   
Caesar_Augustus


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/29/2005
From: Henneth Anûn
Status: offline 		Well, it might be somewhat of an exploit, but it may reflect "reality", too: the second Death Star was not complete, but was proved to be fully operational, or so said the Emperor to Luke...

(in reply to J HG T)
Post #: 16
RE: 1.5.0.4b ; FLEET Control after CIVIL WAR! - 2/7/2011 10:44:55 AM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		I found it also strange initially and the demand was made to fix this bug (let's assume it is a bug)...but now I find it epic, to be able to go out and explore without sensors in ship without life support.
Should be fun.....wait, the engine is missing a fuel pump and I can't radio back; damn, not so epic now...very prosaic actually. Good thing I'm in the middle of a war, somebody will surely find me.

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to J HG T)
Post #: 17
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