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RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured!

 
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/4/2011 9:50:00 AM   
janh

 

Posts: 1216
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline 		Alternatively it sounds like a good idea if you could assign specific fighter sqrns to escort specific bomber sqrns -- yet there is one problem: If you had a large strike with numbers bomber sqrn, and assigned the fighters to the first, Murphy's law dictates that this would be the one to cancel its mission or fail to find the target, with the fighters following suit and the remaining bombers arriving without cover.  Perhaps that was why the devs chose to implement the escorts the way they are. It works most of the time, but yes, when involving CV-air it shows its flaws.

The ideal way would probably be setting up air strikes the way you organize a TF:  choose a mission, select units, mission parameters etc.  But that would add to micromanagement as well.

(in reply to beppi)
Post #: 1951
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/4/2011 9:51:12 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		the only thing that worked FOR ME in my head to head tests was modding replacement pilots to 70 exp and fill up the squadrons with these pilots. This was the only thing when I thought to noticing something changing but it also wasn´t like day and night. Now experience isn´t a factor at all according to michaelms post. I wouldn´t spend all my pp to change squadrons all the time because you are going to end up doing this a lot as you have them changing base and if there is any effect IMO you won´t notice it. And it does not change the fact that - coordination or not - it won´t prevent the routine from doing silly escort attempts. Coordination FOR ME is coordination from the same base, not cramping together aircraft from bases being 450 miles apart and in a complete different direction. It´s not like B-29 launching at Guam and P-51 meeting them over Iwo Jima. It´s like bombers launching at Port Moresby and the game launches fighters at Lunga to escort the bombers to attack Rabaul while the fighters at Port Moresby are likely to fail doing this.

_____________________________


(in reply to beppi)
Post #: 1952
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/4/2011 10:16:30 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		PzB you got quite a complex and crowded airspace there, but I see what you mean.

A first observation: I get the impression you have quite a dense enviroment and are only
using 2 alt settings (12 and 15k) to discern. That may be not enough for this situation.

This is not only because it adds a large random factor in the equatation, but because the less altitude separation
you include in your strike planning the less telling the results are from an analysis perspective.

The next thing is the use of primary/secondary missions.
It is very useful in case you only got one bomber squadron and have to cover a variety of situations, though
if you got many different tasks for a large number of squadrons its better to specialize.

As I said, altitude coordination doesn´t exclude, it just increases or decreases chances of coordination, and this is usually
enough to provide the intended escorts for the specific strikes.

When a raid is "planned" by the game engine a squadron (with random rolls and such things as commanders leadership rating) is chosen as the lead.
Then the engine looks for potential squads to coordinate with this raid, which usually are other bomber
squads with the same target - or no target - set, available and adds them. It also looks for free escorts
for the raid and adds them. If there are fighter squads with mission "escort" and no other mission, they get a chance
to join up. Different altitude reduces this probability for coordination, but it does not exclude the escorts from the raid
per default.

Now the disadvantage of secondary missions come into play: A fighter squad has no secondary target. It only has a primary
mission: escort. In the worst case you get more than one successful dice roll for escort duties per day, escorting naval
strikes and attack against land based targets.
You CAN perform this without grave fatigue loss, but then you have to use the "rest" setting to insure that only part of the
planes get assigned on a specific mission, so theres still fresh pilots available in case there is a second raid which
makes the Zeros join up.


Re: Your first example, Betty/Zero strike on Nadi

Comparing the squadron screens with the combat replay screen this raises one question:

The attack on Nadi consisted of 68 Betty and 32 Zero escorts, but the screens show a 12 Plane Zero unit at Tongatapu and
a 35/2 plane Betty unit at Tanna.
Is it possible that the Betty unit stationed at Tongatapu also has airfield attack as secondary? (either with or without target set)
This would make the explanation very easy, as the Zeros are not escorting the Tanna but the Tongatapu part of the strike.

If this is not the case I would need more information, mostly about all other squadrons on that area. It is really diffictult otherwise
to get a complete picture of the situation.


Re: Your second example:

This is very easy. Here you probably have most reqiurements fullfilled for a coordinated escort by the Nick squad except altitude.
As already said, altitude is a governing factor to discern between different strikes in the same timeframe, not neccesarily
something you can use to exclude a fighter squad from participating in a raid if there is nothing else to do in that timeframe.
For the 60% Nicks waiting at ready to escort whatever raid may materialise, there is no other mission except exactly this raid.
You have two options to prevent them from escorting: reduce their range to 1, or set the mission percentages to 40/0/60.

Last remark: There IS a random factor in all this, except if you deliberately prevent squads from reaching a specific target by either
range or mission settings. What you have to do is decrease/increase those chances. The more complex an area is in the air, the more specific
your different settings have to be to maximise the chances for the air war to happen exactly as you intend to.
If you don´t do this you get a high ammount of random clutter which sometimes works and sometimes not.


I know that I am not able to provide a complete explanation, because for this I´d have to see the save, but I hope this helps a bit.



_____________________________


(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1953
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/4/2011 10:33:20 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Ok just a few questions to get a better picture:

What were the percentage settings for this Zero squad and the other mentioned fighter squads? (CAP/Train/Rest)
Was the Zero squad land based or naval based?
Were other means of improving coordination given? Like fighter bases closer to the target than the bomber bases, same HQ?
For the mentioned 'fighters from 3 bases': Where there other bombers set to the altitude of these fighters (attacking the same or a different target)?

The last question is probably the most important. Up to now, if the air settings are "clean" (e.g. no alt overlapping) I cannot remember a fighter squad ever escorting
"the wrong" bomber formation when you set altitude as coordination signal.
So if you got two bomber squads attacking different targets, one, say, at 15k and the other at 12k, and assign fighter squads to escort, also one at 15k and the other at 12k,
I never noticed anything like the 15k squad escorting the 12k bombers and vice versa.

For this reason I am asking the other questions, because for example Mission: escort CAP30/Train0/Rest0 means: Please reserve 70% of the available fighters to escort duty
and escort anything in the area that looks like it needs escorts.
If there are no other duties for that squad the fighters probably choose the mission that best resembles their mission profile and this is about any strike in the remote area.

Is the above understandable? Altitude coordination enables you to discern between different strikes to escort. Noone said it prevents escorts if theres nothing else to do. To accomplish that you have other means.



LoBaron, am I understanding this correctly? Let's say you have 4 bases in close proximity, one contains the bombers, the other various fighters. If the bombers are set to 12k and the fighters are all set to escort with a 30 CAP/0/0 makeup at 10k, 12k and 15k that all three have a chance to escort the bombers to the target? Do you have to manually set the target hex for the escorts or should you leave it to commanders discretion? In my experience the bombers and fighters set to 12k will coordinate, the other fighters will "sweep" or "lose contact" with the bombers. I'm really trying to wrap my head around this!


In your example you have a very high chance for the 12k fighter squadron to perform a coordinated mission with the bombers, and a reduced
chance for the other fighter squads, which could either escort despite the different altitude settings (in case there are no other raids to escort at their set altitude),
have an increased chance to lose cohesion on escort and as a result either perform a sweep over target or RTB, or not launch at all. The most likely result for those
other squads depends on the additional factors present with an influence on coordination.

Whether you set a target for the escorts or not is only an additional exclusion tool. In case you got two or more targets and want to maximise chances of specific squadrons
escorting specific strikes to specific targets it helps a lot because it prevents fighters from escorting strikes other than their own target.
The disadvantage naturally is that it prevents you from a primary/secondary mission profile because they would not escort a naval strike to another hex than
the one that is set for them.

_____________________________


(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 1954
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/4/2011 6:31:29 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		I am not sure, I grasp the topic of this discussion. In WITP fighters could escort strike from other base, if they were closer to target. All your examples seems to be exactly this exact thing happening. So obviously most code works as in WITP.
Yes, escort from CV seems strange, but it keeps to rules of fighters-closer-to-target.
Now, I see AI have problem with judging the threat level, and sending appropriate number of escorts. Was it the same in WITP?

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 1955
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/4/2011 6:35:31 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		I don't mind how this works.

The fact that things are hard to control is (IMO) an essential part of the game design. Otherwise it would be too easy to construct an aerial sledgehammer that is impossible to stop. It also means that to gain more control over events you have to "do one thing at a time" in each area, which slows things down.

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 1956
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/4/2011 9:34:15 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Sometimes fighters and bombers with long range operating 30 hexes apart makes it difficult to perform more than 1 mission type at the time; Ground bombing or naval attack.
The Tangatavu air groups have been set to naval attack only; it's the Tanna airgroups that have switched to alternative targets as the US carrier threat has been defeated LoBaron.

I'm not going to spend lots of time on this subjects; From my point of view this is one of the areas that could need some more attention.
Don't expect a complete ABC for how to launch and coordinate strikes but maybe a switch to prevent CAG escort LBA or a max limit of escorts per bomber to limit excesses.
150 Zekes escorting 9 LBA Jills to attack barges while the KB is left almost defenseless is beyond the human FUBAR factor.
- The rest we have to...abstract

On with the war! A little snack for you this time as we launch another surprise attack with the KB

I've been watching enemy buildup at Noumea, number of TFs and ships had grown huge so the dogs of war were dispatched once again.
(Uber long range recon from Lunga has reconned Noumea for months).

I made a mistake and forgot to pick up a heavy escort for the KB at Rabaul - in this process I also forgot to add new air admirals.
The fact that we had spotted lots of enemy shipping persuaded me not to wait for the escorts so the KB was divided into 2 large Car Divs and ordered at full speed to
close within 8 hexes of Noumea at the northern tip of New Caledonia.

The rest you can read below...


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 17, 43

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on 10th Light Horse Battalion, at 66,130 (Nookanbah)
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 29 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 3000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Merauke , at 89,124
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17F Fortress x 3
B-24D Liberator x 15
B-24D1 Liberator x 18
B-26B Marauder x 6
P-38H Lightning x 17

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Merauke , at 89,124

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 18
B-24D1 Liberator x 15

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 7
Runway hits 20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Belep Islands at 111,153
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 44 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 106

Allied aircraft
TBF-1 Avenger x 2

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed

CAP engaged:
Yamada Det S-2 with A6M5 Zero (1 airborne, 2 on standby, 28 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 30000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 30000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
Soryu-1 with A6M5 Zero (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
Zuikaku-1 with A6M5 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
Junyo-1 with A6M5 Zero (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
Taiho-1 with A6M5 Zero (5 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 255th Armoured Brigade, at 58,130
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 43 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M3 Nell x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M3 Nell: 1 damaged

Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x G3M3 Nell bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Noumea at 115,160
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 56
D4Y1 Judy x 26

Allied aircraft
P-38H Lightning x 5
P-39D Airacobra x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y1 Judy: 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-38H Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-39D Airacobra: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
xAK Langkoeas, Bomb hits 8, and is sunk
xAK Marpessa, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAP Aquitania, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
AM Wagga
xAK Nora Moller, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 224 (193 destroyed, 31 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
11 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
15 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
11 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
8 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
12 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
51st FG/25th FS with P-38H Lightning (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(5 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
347th FG/339th FS with P-39D Airacobra (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(5 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Langkoeas
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 255th Armoured Brigade, at 58,130
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y1 Judy x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 2000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 500 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Belep Islands at 111,153
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 29 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 104

Allied aircraft
P-38H Lightning x 19
TBF-1 Avenger x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-38H Lightning: 4 destroyed
TBF-1 Avenger: 4 destroyed

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Strike on Noumea

So we caught Andy in the process of invading Efate..Andy actually got lucky; the invasion convoy was 9!! hexes away from KB, 1 hex to far for it to launch strikes.
We did get loaded troop and cargo ships at Noumea though, looks like a large armored unit was aboard the giant passenger liner.

We did however take a risk; Noumea is now a size 6 AF and 90 fighters and 30+ bombers were reported there.
With a light KB escort we thus were potentially vulnerable but I decided that speed and surprise would reduce risks and that Andy didn't keep to much of a LBA force in a backwater area.

I now expect Andy to curse and do his outmost to a) reinforce Noumea with more LBA b) get his invasion TF the heck out of Dodge.
But will he run in the right direction
- 3 options; back to Noumea, continue to Efate (not likely), due south or towards Fiji at full speed (most likely).

Time to kick arse and chew bubblegum again





Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 1957
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/4/2011 11:20:04 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Sometimes fighters and bombers with long range operating 30 hexes apart makes it difficult to perform more than 1 mission type at the time; Ground bombing or naval attack.
The Tangatavu air groups have been set to naval attack only; it's the Tanna airgroups that have switched to alternative targets as the US carrier threat has been defeated LoBaron.


Point taken. Although I sometimes doubt that people who have real issues with coordination are aware that the coordination factors can be used in a positive and negative way.
Every sentence about what improves chances for coordination contains the same information about how to prevent it.

Anyway, I have the main air combat still way before me as my PBEM is still far from an attrition battle from the US side and so rely mainly on what I see on
Robs against Mike fighting the Burmese air war, and from the AI and small scens I played before since the release of AE. I will sure analyse some of the air
battles from my side when the situation occurs in our AAR.


_____________________________


(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1958
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/5/2011 12:38:22 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Indeed, lots to learn and only continued testing and trying will make AE give up all its secrets




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 1959
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/5/2011 1:40:35 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Indeed, lots to learn and only continued testing and trying will make AE give up all its secrets



You don't need to learn any more of those secrets. You are a very dangerous opponent!

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1960
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/5/2011 8:56:02 AM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		Anyone else noticed, that P-38H total AA loses are less, than reported for that day? Strange.

Anyway, good work. There comes another 2 months of armour replacements.
How many Divisions here must be sunk, for you, to consider New Caledonia invasion, PzB?

As I understand Koumac is still empty? And this base north of Noumea (La Foa?) do not have planes? Again, total lack of defensive preparations.
Also, are there not any heavy warships covering Allied action?
Convoy, you just sunk, indicates, than escorts are minimal. Send more subs into the area

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 1961
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/5/2011 4:10:46 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Always plenty room for improvement Witpqs, but I'll take that as a compliment

Daily loss vs total loss is usually not 100% equal as the former includes FOW.
If I could sink most of those 21 units at Noumea I would consider it but in general our Army is spread over a vast area and
the enemy is now reaching parity in numbers and superiority in quality. Just not very sensible to dispatch 5 divisions to invade another
backwater base were enemy has lots of LBA

Gathered all avaialble fighters with long range and set up a CAP trap over Merauke today.
60 fighters including Nicks greeted the enemy bombers when they arrived. We claimed 9 P-39s and only 3-4 4Es.
Would die for a wing of FW-190s and ME-110s with a battery of 4x20 and 30mm guns!

Also used the opertunity to unload supplies at Merauke. Got a garrison and 3 forts there, if Andy wants it he will have
to land prepped LCUs.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 19, 43

We have and have had subs around New Caledonia for quite some time; just not very effective.

Sub-ASW Attacks

ASW attack near Noumea at 116,160
Japanese Ships
SS I-7

Allied Ships
DD Sims
DD Gwin
xAP Neptuna
DD Nestor
DD Napier
DD Russell

SS I-7 launches 6 torpedoes at DD Sims
I-7 diving deep ....
DD Nestor fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Napier fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Russell fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Russell fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Russell fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Russell fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on Merauke , at 89,124
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 22 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
A6M5 Zero x 14
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 13
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 6

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 19
B-24D1 Liberator x 15
B-26B Marauder x 5
P-38H Lightning x 17

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-26B Marauder: 1 damaged
P-38H Lightning: 3 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 61
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Merauke , at 89,124
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19
A6M5 Zero x 10
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 7
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 5

Allied aircraft
B-17F Fortress x 6
B-24D Liberator x 6
B-24D1 Liberator x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-17F Fortress: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 6 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 146th Infantry Regimental Combat Team, at 76,124 (Darwin)
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25D1 Mitchell x 6

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
38 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 255th Armoured Brigade, at 58,130
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y1 Judy x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CAP Trap

Updated recon indicated a doubling of enemy LBA strength on Noumea.
Under no circumstances should KB be pitted against prepared LBA.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 1962
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/5/2011 4:21:38 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Sent 2 wings of Tojo IIbs on sweeps into India today.
Enemy Thuds and Hurries encountered over Comilla.

- The IIb got the punch to take out Thuds but it's hard.
3 Thuds and 2 Hurries claimed; we lost 2 Tojos, another 3 were written of after RTB.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 20, 43

Sub Attacks

Our subs still score in the Central Pacific but the sinkings are not so frequent anymore.

Sub attack near Lahaina at 196,98

Japanese Ships
SS I-162

Allied Ships
xAK Boero, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

xAK Boero is sighted by SS I-162
SS I-162 launches 4 torpedoes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on Comilla , at 56,39
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 42

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 20
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
29 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo sweeping at 30000 feet *
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Silchar , at 59,39
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 11 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 32

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
32 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo sweeping at 30000 feet *
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

A remnant trapped near Darwin marched back in; tried to airlift them out with Mavis transports but didn't work.
As you can see there are still no enemy base units or engineers at Darwin.

Ground combat at Darwin (76,124)
Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 2145 troops, 0 guns, 283 vehicles, Assault Value = 1062
Defending force 269 troops, 5 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 5

Allied adjusted assault: 114

Japanese adjusted defense: 1
Allied assault odds: 114 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), preparation(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
167 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 15 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 6 (6 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
2/8th Armoured Regiment
194th Tank Battalion
1st Army Tank Regiment
3rd Motor Brigade
1st Motor Brigade
2/7th Armoured Regiment
7th Armoured Brigade
3rd Army Tank Brigade
2/6th Armoured Regiment
754th Tank Battalion
2/5th Armoured Regiment
1st Australian Para Bn /1
197th Coast AA Regiment
208th Coast AA Regiment
810th Engineer Aviation Battalion
96th Coast AA Regiment
34th Australian Lt AA Regiment

Defending units:
146th Infantry RCT /1
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Sweep

The Escort Carrier Fleet at its anchorage; it fields ca 140 ac.
A very insignificant force compared to the monstrous Allied escort carrier fleets that will roam the Pacific by mid 44.
Only 3-4 more small Jap CVEs planned in 45; they field less than 10 ac and are meant as asw support vessels.
With the old Hosho used for training in Japan this means we don't get any more CVEs. One of the converted seaplane tenders with a top speed of 22knots (Mizuho?
will be attached to the CVE Fleet though.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1963
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/5/2011 4:37:21 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		In one of my PBM's I am seeing certain lines in the total air losses column vary up and down from one day to the next by around 20%.

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1964
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/5/2011 5:29:54 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Probably FOW...never quite understood the meaning of this.

This turn another offensive air strike was launched; against Calcutta this time.
Have been waiting for a clear weather turn after spotting large number of bombers and aux in Calcutta with are latively low fighter count.
A crack Zero A6M3 wing swept Calcutta first and the main strike was made up of almost 130 Helen IIs escorted by 76 Oscar IIbs and Nicks.

Most went well with 2 exceptions; 1. My weather forecasters will be shot! T-storms over Calcutta reduced raid effectiveness enormously.
In real life this strike would not have been launched before a clear days actually materialized.

26 Helen's got separated from the strike and arrived alone against a weakened enemy CAP. This cost us 6 bombers.
The main group with 90 bombers arrived with its escort though and we claimed 12 fighters in the air and another dozen ac or so on the ground.

If Japan had produced 4Es life would have been so much better...Still we continue with our harassment attacks and try to force Andy to divert resources
from the frontlines to protect his rear bases.

Next turn the first Frances unit arrives; also counting down to receive 2 new CVs and 2 upgraded CVLs.
The 4 Kongo class BBs are heading back to Japan for an upgrade that will give them radar and more than double their AA protection.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 21, 43

Sub Attacks

This one I liked; 2 torps into the large Narwhal class sub Nautilus. Guess it was heading for Midway to lay mines!
In my other game I experienced something unique; a US sub put a torp into one of my subs...it struggled back to a small base and in sinking
condition started to pump out excess water and survived...

Sub vs Sub: SS I-15 attacking SS Nautilus at 172,91

Japanese Ships
SS I-15

Allied Ships
SS Nautilus, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

SS I-15 launches 6 torpedoes at 1,000 yards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on Calcutta , at 52,37
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 48 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 30

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 13
P-40K Warhawk x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk I: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x A6M3a Zero sweeping at 30000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Calcutta , at 52,37
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 26

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 2
P-40K Warhawk x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 3 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 destroyed on ground

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 14000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Calcutta , at 52,37
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 50 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 35
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 41
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 90

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 1
P-40K Warhawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 9 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk I: 1 destroyed
P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed
C-47 Skytrain: 4 destroyed on ground
B-25D1 Mitchell: 3 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
Beaufort VIII: 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 14000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
29 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 14000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
34 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 14000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x Ki-45 KAIa Nick sweeping at 14000 feet *
12 x Ki-43-IIb Oscar sweeping at 14000 feet

CAP engaged:
No.118 Sqn RCAF with Kittyhawk I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 29000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
23rd FG/74th FS with P-40K Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters to 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 69 minutes

Training flight from No.118 Sqn RCAF has been caught up in attack
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 2nd Australian/B Division, at 58,130
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 46 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y1 Judy x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
23 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Aircraft Attacking:
9 x D4Y1 Judy bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 1 x 500 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bombing Calcutta




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 1965
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/5/2011 9:37:24 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 24, 43

ASW Attacks

The Mingo was attacked by the upgraded E class Wakamiya with 2x3 DC + 1 ASW mortar and reported sunk.
The 1000 Allied ship to be so! Should be celebrated

ASW attack near Siargao at 90,88

Japanese Ships
PB Myoken Maru
PB Kongo Maru #2
E Wakamiya
PB Shuko Maru #5

Allied Ships
SS Mingo, hits 13, heavy damage

SS Mingo is located by PB Myoken Maru
E Wakamiya attacking submerged sub ....
PB Shuko Maru #5 fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Wakamiya fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Shuko Maru #5 fails to find sub and abandons search
E Wakamiya fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Wakamiya fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Wakamiya attacking submerged sub ....
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Last air attack from Northern Oz, the Judy's are withdrawing to Timor as Allied fields in Port Hedland become operational.

Afternoon Air attack on 10th Light Horse Battalion, at 66,130 (Nookanbah)
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y1 Judy x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x D4Y1 Judy bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 1 x 500 kg GP Bomb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Northern Australia

Port Hedland was captured as more and more Allied units appeared at Corunna Downs.
So I evacuated 90% of the troops and all ac there. Had to leave a batch of supplies (28000) which was unfortunate.

Broome and Derby are the last Jap controlled coastal towns left now and I'm evacuating all supporting units and leaving only the
rearguards and garrisons. The orderly withdrawal into the Java - Timor - New Guinea area will then be completed.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1966
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/5/2011 9:42:37 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		The PY1Y Frances

With a service rating of 4 I will only send these units to major fields (7-9) with ample support.
I have fleshed the unit out with replacements and included a veteran from the training command.

For now I've halted Betty production, Nell production continues complemented by the Frances.
I'm uncertain how many Frances bombers I should produce, aiming for 60 per month to begin with.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1967
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/5/2011 9:51:34 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Enemy warships reported sunk

Also on this list:
91 destroyers (all types)
45 subs (vs 23 Jap)
18 fleet oilers
40 tankers

Our own losses included 1 CV (Hiyo), 2 light carriers and 3 battleships.

Not especially heavy losses, the oilers hurt the most.
Still sinking and damaging those Allied carriers have enabled us to maintain carrier superiority up until now.
- With our forthcoming reinforcements I except parity in carriers prior to 44 and a sharply increasing Allied superiority the longer we get into 44.

After the end of 44 I will not actively seek a major carrier battle with the Allied fleets anymore; future battles will from then on rely heavily on set-piece actions
supported by LBA.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1968
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/5/2011 10:38:47 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Correction; we've lost 2 CV and 2 CVL; Hiryo and Kaga (sub loss).

By now there should be the following Allied carriers:
Enterprise
Lexington
Saratoga
Essex
Bunker Hill
Yorktown II
Hornet II
Total: ~720 ac

Formidable (48 ac?)
Illustrious (45 ac)
Victorious (40 ac)
Total: ~140

6 light carriers (180 ac)
13 escort carriers (390 ac)
Total: 570

Total ~1430 ac

Another Essex class carrier will join the fleet by end 43 together with another handfull of CVLs and 4 escort carriers (another 360 ac).
So we should expect to meet at least 1000 enemy carrier ac even if escort carriers are not included.

Against this we can field the following in 12 days:
Shokaku (81 ac)
Zuikaku (81 ac)
Taiho (81 ac)
Hiryu (72 ac)
Soryu (72 ac)
Unryu (72 ac)
Katsuragi (72 ac)
Akagi (85 ac)
Junyo (55 ac)
Total 680~

4 CVL and 5 CVE (270 ac)

Total: 950 ac

So we're already heavily outnumbered!

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 25, 43

As predicted, Allied air operates out of Port Hedland.

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on Broome , at 62,127
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
Hurricane XIIb x 10
B-25C Mitchell x 9

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 19

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 1000 feet
Airfield Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1969
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/5/2011 11:59:16 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		You air attack on Calcutta brings up another aspect of air war that is not covered in this game.  To hit Calcutta your aircraft flew over or near to 4 airbases( Cox Bazaar, Chittagong, Comila, and Dacca ) and none of the aircraft that might have been on CAP participated in the defense. In real life this would have been a real concern for the attacker( Japan in this case ). 


_____________________________


(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1970
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/6/2011 12:26:02 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Oh, the raiders went over and under the radar so that shouldn't be a problem.
- I've learned to abstract such matters

If the air model from Battle of Britain and the ground combat model from War in the East were included into AE we could stop abstracting so much

Next turn the first of the CS conversions should be complete!

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 27, 43

Air Combat

Someone's in a hurry to get supplies to Darwin...a convoy tried to race through the "slot" again.
Think we nailed most of them. Have reviewed my forces in the region to catch as many as possible.

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 29 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 11

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Ki-43-IIb Oscar sweeping at 15000 feet *
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Derby at 66,124
Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M3 Nell x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M3 Nell: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
xAK Olopana, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
xAK Mormacrio
xAK Waimea
KV Freesia

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x G3M3 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Derby at 66,124
Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y1 Judy x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAK Onomea, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
xAK Mormacrio, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Waimea, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
1 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Waimea
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Broome , at 62,127
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 43 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Allied aircraft
Hurricane XIIb x 9
B-25C Mitchell x 14

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 6
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 25

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 1000 feet
Airfield Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blokade runners




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 1971
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/6/2011 8:26:05 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Oh, the raiders went over and under the radar so that shouldn't be a problem.
- I've learned to abstract such matters

If the air model from Battle of Britain and the ground combat model from War in the East were included into AE we could stop abstracting so much


I thought the same, the problem lies in the ammount of detail though. Planning BoB style raids in WitPAE would take so much time that it again
reduces the ammount of people actually able to play the game and increases focus on the tactical plane, instead of the overall strategic situation.

I´d really love see a change in game to very specific raid planning, set targets, set attack groups, more flexibility with high cover/close escort,...system.
The problem is that always when I thought there could be this or that solution I immediately saw that it either integrates into the rest of the game badly
(e.g. CV battles) or is so complicated that the question arises if we need all those different options because people tend to reset to "their" default settings
when theres too much to do.

Abstracting a lot is not a bad thing the way WitPAE air model is designed. Theres so many dice rolls to lead to different situations that its has a lot of explanatory
value.

Until I see a system that works better on a tactical scale while still keeping the players focus on the strategy plane I see the current model close to optimal.
Vague enough to keep the detail level bearable for a game as huge as WitPAE, detailed enough to wage the air war quite well if you understand all the
details.


The ground model is interesting though, no idea there as I don´t play WitE. WitPAE is about all I can handle at one time...

< Message edited by LoBaron -- 2/6/2011 8:27:20 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1972
Plane production snapshot - 2/6/2011 8:30:31 AM   
pacificbetta

 

Posts: 110
Joined: 12/4/2009
Status: offline 		Hi PzB,

Is it possible for us to take a look at your current plane production figures?

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 1973
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/6/2011 10:24:43 AM   
janh

 

Posts: 1216
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

I thought the same, the problem lies in the ammount of detail though. Planning BoB style raids in WitPAE would take so much time that it again reduces the ammount of people actually able to play the game and increases focus on the tactical plane, instead of the overall strategic situation.

I´d really love see a change in game to very specific raid planning, set targets, set attack groups, more flexibility with high cover/close escort,...system. The problem is that always when I thought there could be this or that solution I immediately saw that it either integrates into the rest of the game badly (e.g. CV battles) or is so complicated that the question arises if we need all those different options because people tend to reset to "their" default settings when theres too much to do.


/Hijack/
Improving the ground combat model and the control over air units would be a nice prospect for "AE2". I have no issue with leaving things on "defaults" -- I like being able to micromanage some details, but also being able to leave others to AI or on default settings until there is true need to touch these as well. I hardly have enough time to play one GC against AI at a time, so that is the only savior...

One thing to make a game like this more tractable in my opinion would have been designing more "routine" things in auto-fashion, for i.e. having only to select airframe production and have a button/setting to have AI automatically optimize engine production accordingly. It is perfect to see how engine production can be limiting factor, no doubt an important detail, but it also is not that exciting most of the time... Or when setting up air missions, have a setting for AI to adjust the altitude (to historically typical settings or so), drop tanks etc of all the air groups involved in a raid. Or even better, be able to give Air Commands prioritized targets, and have AI adjust escorts, sweeps, bombers, rest and training percentage etc. Routine stuff like that. Just dreaming...

One thing that I would say in comparison to WitE is that both the size scale and time scale for a turn probably should be very different. On the one hand, AE on 7 day turns would only work if you could set up orders on "per day basis" for each turn, else naval and air actions would not go so well ("bomb Pearl for 7 days--remain on station..."). On the other hand, Eastern Front, or European Fronts on 1 day turns could be very slow, even boring (watching hundreds of skirmishes to play out every turn). "I go-U go" was probably a better choice for WitE, but fortunately WitP tries to simulate "true time". My guess is that European and Pacific fronts are best abstracted in different ways, and we will probably not see a WiEurope in the style and depth of AE. Time will tell.
/End Hijack/


< Message edited by janh -- 2/6/2011 10:26:29 AM >

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 1974
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/6/2011 4:19:55 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Indeed, WitP is the best strategy game covering multiple different theatres of war.
Therefore we can never have _the best_ air combat model or land combat model - but we can have the best ever Pacific War game

Continued improvements and optimizing and future games along such a platform is what we can pray and hope for.
We all have to do our best not to overtax the game engine unless we expect to see results that are to far fetched compared to history.

2 new CVLs have joined the fleet; I've placed 30 Jills and 30 A6M5 on them and they are now part of the KB!

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 29, 43

This recon has set of alarms in the Combined Fleet!

Pearl Harbour - increased activity

Yesterday nothing, today; numerous enemy TFs forming up at Pearl.
I asked Andy if he's ready for another roll! "No comment".

Just wanted to let him know that we have eyes in the sky and that he can't even take his dog for a stroll without being spotted
So I've started to organize the fleet for action in the Central Pacific.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to janh)
Post #: 1975
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/6/2011 4:47:34 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB
So I've started to organize the fleet for action in the Central Pacific.


Are you sure that is the battleground you want? I

If you are right and there is a fleet action coming it sounds like you are about to risk the KB very very far from friendly major ports or good airbases. Why?

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1976
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/6/2011 5:07:31 PM   
janh

 

Posts: 1216
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline 		Line Islands again?  I would doubt it, too predictable.  Although, Andy will have to neutralize them at some point -- rather sooner than later.  Seems like enough TF's to invade at least two islands simultaneously...  Maybe there is even stuff on its way from CONUSA? 

Your recon could benefit you crucially now, and even despite his CV superiority you can pick the battle you want, or engineer another backhand strike. Seems like the next turns might get tense again!

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 1977
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/6/2011 5:10:54 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		That we don't know yet! So I need to assemble the fleet, position and manouver it and if a favorable situation reveals itself we're
going to be there to make the Emperors dingle with delight!

It will take a week to assemble the fleet and we still need another 6 days to receive the 2 new carriers.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 30, 43

Sub Attacks

We get the transport but the sub is damaged and has to return to Home Islands for repairs!

Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 186,96
Japanese Ships
SS I-21, hits 5

Allied Ships
xAK Masaya, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Alabaman
xAKL Elna
DE Edward C. Daly

SS I-21 launches 6 torpedoes at xAK Masaya
I-21 diving deep ....
DE Edward C. Daly fails to find sub, continues to search...
DE Edward C. Daly attacking submerged sub ....
DE Edward C. Daly attacking submerged sub ....
DE Edward C. Daly loses contact with SS I-21
DE Edward C. Daly is out of ASW ammo
DE Edward C. Daly fails to find sub, continues to search...
DE Edward C. Daly fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intel and Sub attack

No sightings of enemy shipping near Palmyra and Line Islands but we did get a report saying "Wildcats" sighted...





Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 1978
RE: NEWSFLASH; Efate captured! - 2/6/2011 5:13:14 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		I've sent the support elements in the Line Islands towards home, laid more mines at Palmyra, increased search efforts and placed our fighters defenses on alert.
In total we have 200 fighters and I'm going to use these to attrit Allied CAG.

So whatever is going to happen we're going to make the best out of it



_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1979
RE: Plane production snapshot - 2/6/2011 5:14:12 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Sure, I'll get back to it

quote:

ORIGINAL: pacificbetta

Hi PzB,

Is it possible for us to take a look at your current plane production figures?



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"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to pacificbetta)
Post #: 1980
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