Why does soviet tank divisions are so weak against german infantry ?

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Why does soviet tank divisions are so weak against german infantry ?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> The War Room >> Why does soviet tank divisions are so weak against german infantry ?

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Why does soviet tank divisions are so weak against germ... - 2/7/2011 6:50:33 AM

Swenslim

Posts: 437
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Odessa, Ukraine
Status: offline

Simple experiment

I take 1 german infantry div (60 weak 37-mm anti-tank guns) from AGS and put it in clear terrain on turn 2 without any fortification lvl.

I take maybe most potent soviet 8 mechcorps of 2 tanks divisions and 1 motorised div (290 t-34 and 250 other tanks)

I make deliberate attack and only see how geman devision retreat with 600 dead soldiers.

With all my respect to german infantry i think such result is absolutly unreal. In real life division would be overrun.

As i understand game engine doesnt make difference between t-34, t-28, or t-3 and t-4 they are all medium tanks.

But maybe it will be wise to divide AT on light - medium and heavy ?
So medium tanks will have bonus over light AT and heavy tanks against medium AT ?

Post #: 1

RE: Why does soviet tank divisions are so weak against ... - 2/7/2011 8:24:15 AM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Swenslim

Simple experiment

I take 1 german infantry div (60 weak 37-mm anti-tank guns) from AGS and put it in clear terrain on turn 2 without any fortification lvl.

I take maybe most potent soviet 8 mechcorps of 2 tanks divisions and 1 motorised div (290 t-34 and 250 other tanks)

I make deliberate attack and only see how geman devision retreat with 600 dead soldiers.

With all my respect to german infantry i think such result is absolutly unreal. In real life division would be overrun.

As i understand game engine doesnt make difference between t-34, t-28, or t-3 and t-4 they are all medium tanks.

But maybe it will be wise to divide AT on light - medium and heavy ?
So medium tanks will have bonus over light AT and heavy tanks against medium AT ?

This is incorrect...

The WitE game engine differentiates every single weapon system and every single infantry squad - in combat all these element have possibility (depending of dice rolls and various other modifiers) to shoot at each other and cause casualties!

Thus, if player wants to see fully detailed combat, he/she just needs to increase the "Combat Resolution" (4 and above) and watch the info about actual fighting!

Also, the various tanks are most certainly not the same - each tank has it own data regarding armor, gun and other properties - in combat all these elements are used!!!

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Swenslim)

Post #: 2

RE: Why does soviet tank divisions are so weak against ... - 2/7/2011 9:11:46 AM

Swenslim

Posts: 437
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Odessa, Ukraine
Status: offline

Thanks, now I see :)

So, you want to say, that AT guns and tank guns have penetration value ? I didnt find it anywhere in game. There are front armor value of AFV, accuracy value, but no penetration value in unit menu.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 3

RE: Why does soviet tank divisions are so weak against ... - 2/7/2011 9:16:13 AM

Swenslim

Posts: 437
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Odessa, Ukraine
Status: offline

Upsss... I found it in Commanders menu :)))

Penetration, soft and hard attack...cool ! This game ROCKS !!!

What ROF meen ?

(in reply to Swenslim)

Post #: 4

RE: Why does soviet tank divisions are so weak against ... - 2/7/2011 9:25:15 AM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Swenslim

What ROF meen ?

"Rate of Fire"...

Please note that same gun in some AFV can have less ROF than in some other system - this si to simulate actual performance due to cramped space, worse targeting etc...

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Swenslim)

Post #: 5

RE: Why does soviet tank divisions are so weak against ... - 2/7/2011 10:10:14 AM

Swenslim

Posts: 437
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Odessa, Ukraine
Status: offline

Ok, but why it always 0 (zero) or even have negative number ? -4 for example ?

Lets check german 50 mm AT gun, in upper window it has Rate of Fire 15 and accuracy = 600, but in bottom window it has ROF = 0 and ACC = 250

Why is it so ? Same thing almost for all equipment.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 6

RE: Why does soviet tank divisions are so weak against ... - 2/7/2011 10:12:06 AM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Swenslim

Ok, but why it always 0 (zero) or even have negative number ? -4 for example ?

Lets check german 50 mm AT gun, in upper window it has Rate of Fire 15 and accuracy = 600, but in bottom window it has ROF� = 0 and ACC = 250

Why is it so ? Same thing almost for all equipment.

The negative number means that in that system the gun has lower ROF than it would normally have - thus the reduction (because of cramped space, ergonomics, etc.)!

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Swenslim)

Post #: 7

RE: Why does soviet tank divisions are so weak against ... - 2/7/2011 10:17:37 AM

Swenslim

Posts: 437
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Odessa, Ukraine
Status: offline

So, if gun in upper window has Rate of fire 10, and bottom -4 then actual rate of fire will be 6 for this unit ?

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 8

RE: Why does soviet tank divisions are so weak against ... - 2/7/2011 10:37:42 AM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Swenslim

So, if gun in upper window has Rate of� fire 10, and bottom� -4 then actual rate of fire will be 6 for this unit ?

Correct!

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Swenslim)

Post #: 9

RE: Why does soviet tank divisions are so weak against ... - 2/7/2011 4:06:03 PM

bloomstombs2

Posts: 138
Joined: 1/21/2011
Status: offline

Its great that these units have all these working attributes, but how come when I click on infantry division, then click on their 37mm atg, it doesn't show me these attributes.

I realize I have to go to commanders screen, but wouldn't it be so much more convenient if I could actually see these alongside armor value of the atg?

I wish they would include that info there.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 10

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