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RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 3:07:17 PM

Canoerebel

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You may recall that I sent my carriers to SoPac to cover a feint towards Noumea. The hope was that Brad would see what had eluded him so long (my carriers), react strongly, and send the KB south. That was meant to eliminate the threat of the KB to my Wake and Marcus invasion groups.

As best I can tell, he didn't send his carriers south. I had picket ships all around New Caledonia and the New Hebrides and never caught wind of the KB.

I still think Brad's carriers are in the Pacific - Truk, Kwajalein, and Rabaul would be high on my list. But there is a small chance he had them in the Bay of Bengal in case I tried to disrupt his evacuation from India.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/9/2011 3:08:16 PM >

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 1651

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 3:29:44 PM

vettim89

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

But there is a small chance he had them in the Bay of Bengal in case I tried to disrupt his evacuation from India.

I think there may be a good chance of this being true. I almost suggested you do that exact thing if your carriers were still at CT. I would almost say that Brad would have no choice but to keep his CV"s in the BoB area until the bulk of his troops were evacuated.

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Post #: 1652

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 3:33:29 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

That's what I'm suggesting, yes.

And would he? You know him better than most (any?) of us, but from his AAR, while he was doing it, I got the sense of a proud man who doesn't like to quit. OTOH, I know how easy it is to be drawn away from duty by a new, shiny thing.

Time will tell. Only you can determine if the game is giving you what you're looking for in return. I think, right now, the Japanese position is in tremendous shape, and the early, for-some-boring era is over. I think you could find a replacement Japanese player of some skill pretty easily. At least for some time to come.

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The Moose

Come on!
Aren't any of you guys married?
This is complete passive-aggressive behavior. You would not show him your carriers, now you can't see his! Nah-uh, he is just going to hide them to frustrate you.

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Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 1653

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 7:20:02 PM

Canoerebel

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I think Brad decided to get revenge against me for hiding my carriers by hiding himself and declining to play the game.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/9/2011 7:21:07 PM >

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Post #: 1654

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 8:29:19 PM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

What's Going On?: The commitment of any combat ships or carriers would have demolished the Allies shipping at Wake. The use of air transport to bring in reinforcements probably would have secured the island. But Brad did none of the things he should have done.

It occasionally takes a Japanese player a little time to make the transition from the offensive to the defensive mind-set. Q-Ball may not have fully realized that while he needs to pull out of India, there are still opportunities for attacks elsewhere, since it's only November '42. Or maybe he has already completely switched to defensive mode, and will only commit valuable units to vital areas.

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(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1655

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 8:43:38 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

That's what I'm suggesting, yes.

And would he? You know him better than most (any?) of us, but from his AAR, while he was doing it, I got the sense of a proud man who doesn't like to quit. OTOH, I know how easy it is to be drawn away from duty by a new, shiny thing.

Time will tell. Only you can determine if the game is giving you what you're looking for in return. I think, right now, the Japanese position is in tremendous shape, and the early, for-some-boring era is over. I think you could find a replacement Japanese player of some skill pretty easily. At least for some time to come.

_____________________________

The Moose

Come on!
Aren't any of you guys married?
This is complete passive-aggressive behavior. You would not show him your carriers, now you can't see his! Nah-uh, he is just going to hide them to frustrate you.

You mean 'passive-aggressive' like when you ask what's wrong and she says 'nothing'. Then she washes your white t-shirts with the red socks. On hot. Oopsey.

Kind of like that?

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Post #: 1656

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 8:46:33 PM

SqzMyLemon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I think Brad decided to get revenge against me for hiding my carriers by hiding himself and declining to play the game.

I've often thought a Sir Robin-san on the part of the Japanese player could be in order in cases of extreme reluctance on the part of Allied players to commit to even token naval engagements. He didn't get a whiff of your fleet for so long there's absolutely no reason for him to show his until you put something more substantial on the line than sideshow invasions of Marcus or Wake. I think it's too bad Q-Ball has apparently lost interest in this matchup, but then again I'm not surprised. Maybe the lack of any substantial naval action to date just pushed him into a sense of apathy.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1657

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 9:01:18 PM

Canoerebel

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It's weird. The Japanese are in good shape in this game, but so are the Allies. By the end of 1942, Brad will be no better off than are most Japanese players. He'll have Burma, NW Oz, and New Caledonia/New Hebrides, but there's nothing particularly remarkable about that. It's not bad, but it's not great either. On the other hand, he's lost six divisions, the Allied carrier fleet is fully intact, and the Allies are in better shape in the Pacific than they were in the war (having the entire Aleutian chain plus possibly Wake Island).

Our game is balanced and taut, so I don't think it drove him away. I think his absence is totally due to WitE.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 1658

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 9:01:36 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I think Brad decided to get revenge against me for hiding my carriers by hiding himself and declining to play the game.

I've often thought a Sir Robin-san on the part of the Japanese player could be in order in cases of extreme reluctance on the part of Allied players to commit to even token naval engagements. He didn't get a whiff of your fleet for so long there's absolutely no reason for him to show his until you put something more substantial on the line than sideshow invasions of Marcus or Wake. I think it's too bad Q-Ball has apparently lost interest in this matchup, but then again I'm not surprised. Maybe the lack of any substantial naval action to date just pushed him into a sense of apathy.

Could it ever be in order? I suppose. But this has been a hard fought game. One of my PBM's is in a similar state in early '44, and featured one of the biggest carrier losses the Allies ever took. The problem with what you propose is if it's taken to a point of 'if you don't fight on my terms I'm leaving'. I really don't think CR can be accused of not fighting here, and I know you are talking about naval battles. But, really, a Japanese player can force those battles if he is willing to fight on the Allied player's terms!

In other words, I think "could be in order" only applies in pretty extreme cases. Certainly not here.

< Message edited by witpqs -- 2/9/2011 9:02:54 PM >

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 1659

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 9:26:10 PM

SqzMyLemon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I think Brad decided to get revenge against me for hiding my carriers by hiding himself and declining to play the game.

I've often thought a Sir Robin-san on the part of the Japanese player could be in order in cases of extreme reluctance on the part of Allied players to commit to even token naval engagements. He didn't get a whiff of your fleet for so long there's absolutely no reason for him to show his until you put something more substantial on the line than sideshow invasions of Marcus or Wake. I think it's too bad Q-Ball has apparently lost interest in this matchup, but then again I'm not surprised. Maybe the lack of any substantial naval action to date just pushed him into a sense of apathy.

Could it ever be in order? I suppose. But this has been a hard fought game. One of my PBM's is in a similar state in early '44, and featured one of the biggest carrier losses the Allies ever took. The problem with what you propose is if it's taken to a point of 'if you don't fight on my terms I'm leaving'. I really don't think CR can be accused of not fighting here, and I know you are talking about naval battles. But, really, a Japanese player can force those battles if he is willing to fight on the Allied player's terms!

In other words, I think "could be in order" only applies in pretty extreme cases. Certainly not here.

I should have expanded my thoughts to include I didn't think Canoerebel pulled a Sir Robin. It was the nature of Q-Ball's invasion of India that precipitated primarily a ground war and due to circumstances there was no need for Canoerebel to commit his CV's or major fleet assets. I agree, Japan's situation here is not bad and I truly don't understand Q-Ball's lack of commitment as there is much action yet to take place. I do think though that with the lack of naval engagements that made it easier for Q-Ball to zone out as it were and enjoy switching to WitE so much. Perhaps he just lost the fun factor. We have no idea what Q-Ball's thoughts are so this is all just conjecture anyway. I apologize for what seemed a critique of you Canoerebel, that was not the intention. I hope Brad will rekindle his interest and give you both the game you deserve. Who knows, maybe he's just playing possum!

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 1660

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 9:41:14 PM

Canoerebel

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Sqz, no offense was taken to your original comments. I knew where you were coming from. And in your last comments, you are probably right about Brad eventually "zoning out" during the India campaign. He said something to that effect in one of his emails.

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Post #: 1661

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 9:44:43 PM

SqzMyLemon

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Thanks Canoerebel,

Sometimes a text message just doesn't convey the spirit of what was intended and has the potential to seem critical instead.

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Post #: 1662

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 9:48:19 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
I do think though that with the lack of naval engagements that made it easier for Q-Ball to zone out as it were and enjoy switching to WitE so much. Perhaps he just lost the fun factor.

There's something to this if you follow Brad's AAR...

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Post #: 1663

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/9/2011 10:04:17 PM

Canoerebel

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To me, India was a totally enthralling air, sea, and land campaign. It taxed me to the limits of my ability to defend what I had left and to try to anticipate and plan for future events.

That Brad found it a drag came as a complete surprise when he mentioned it in his email. From his perspective, it was a one-dimensional ground campaign, and we all know that AE isn't at it's best in land combat.

This may be indicative of what Brad's problem was in India. He should have seen it as a three-dimensional campaign, using his ships and aircraft more forcefully. Had he done so, he would have gotten the carrier battle he wanted and perhaps the lucious auto victory to boot.

So, witpqs is right - Brad had the means to counter the Allied strategy. For whatever reason - lack of vision, lack of commitment, dearth of supplies, fear of risking the KB - he didn't.

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 1664

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/10/2011 3:22:52 PM

Canoerebel

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11/23/42

Wake Island: The Allied shock attack turns out oddly. The Allied AV is adjusted radically downwards, for some reason, resulting in an attack that falls just short of a 1:1 and fails to touch four forts. But the Japanese take much higher casualties, including a surprising number of squads destroyed:

Ground combat at Wake Island (136,98)
Allied Shock attack
Attacking force 4363 troops, 141 guns, 55 vehicles, Assault Value = 186
Defending force 2428 troops, 62 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 58
Allied adjusted assault: 36
Japanese adjusted defense: 39

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 4)

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
949 casualties reported
Squads: 24 destroyed, 32 disabled
Non Combat: 18 destroyed, 40 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1020 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 81 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 67 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Guns lost 48 (6 destroyed, 42 disabled)

Assaulting units:
23rd Marine Regiment
34th Combat Engineer Regiment
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
7th Marine Defense Battalion

Defending units:
Maizuru 2nd SNLF
47th Naval Guard Unit
Wake Coastal Gun Battalion
37th JNAF AF Unit

What it Means: I'll have to rest my troops for at least two days, which gives Brad time to take out my unprotected supply ships or to reinforce the island, though he doesn't seem inclined to do either. I think Brad has written off Wake, but the longer it holds the better the chance he might change his mind.

Losses: Losses during this amphibious operation have been remarkably light. I lost about ten xAK, which don't matter, and one AP (Zeilin), which does matter. I have about twenty more xAK either at Wake or standing offshoare about five hexes, but at this point no matter what happens, this operation was very inexpensive.

Ojbectives: The operation has met two of its three objectives thus far: (1) Sneak up and "goose" Brad in an area that would add to the appearance that the Allies have serious ideas in CenPac and NoPac; (2) Show that the Allies are now ready to undertake major invasions, so he has to be alert everywhere; and [not yet accomplished] (3) Take Wake, either to use as a base long term or, more likely, so that Brad will put together something major to re-take it, thus affording the Allies to move freely somewhere else (Tarawa being my original objective, but that's currently under review).

Oz: An Aussie armored recon unit has cut the road behind Daly Waters. 300 Allied AV will arrive at Daly tomorrow. I'm not sure Brad has seen what's happening here - this would be an easy area to overlook if he's not giving this his full attention.

India: The Allies will take Viz and Dacca tomorrow. A company of Marine paratroops is setting out from Jaffna, Ceylon, to feel its way towards the town between Trincomalee and Columbo. I've set up recon to fly Colombo tomorrow, but the airfield is very low on supply, so I'm not sure the mission will go.

Brad's Morale: I thought more about yesterday's discussion of Brad's state of mind. I don't think he's completely neglecting the game. He's done plenty of little things to indicate he's giving the game thought and making preparations for the future - like sending 33rd Division to Palembang, beefing up the garrison at Horn Island, and ramping up the air presence in the New Hebrides and New Caledonia. But he's certainly not giving it his full attention, as I think the situation around Daly Waters and at Wake Island suggest. With regard to the latter, he didn't have Wake mined and there hasn't been a single Japanese sub there to pick off cripples, so I think the invasion really caught him by surprise when it probably shouldn't have.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/10/2011 3:23:39 PM >

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Post #: 1665

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/10/2011 7:17:59 PM

Cribtop

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Instead of Tarawa what about capturing an unoccupied, non-atoll island in the Gilberts or the Tutti Fruttis and building up a powerful airbase. Then rinse and repeat all the way to Kwaj if you like. Is TB heavily occupied?

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Post #: 1666

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/10/2011 7:29:36 PM

Canoerebel

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What is TB (once again showing my denseness at times)?

I already have the southern-most of the Tutti Fruti islands - Brad never took it, so I recently airlifted a base force there. I may will build up these bases methodically just as you suggest, but I'm still evaluating Tarawa. I have more than a division fully prepped, and I could get a green light if Brad sent the KB to Wake, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble for the very reasons behind your suggestion.

On a similar note, Brad failed to take the Santa Cruz Islands north of Luganville. While I toy around with various feints and plans for Noumea, I have also considered bypasshing New Caledonia and New Hebrides to instead take and build up some of the Santa Cruz chain. If successful, the major IJ bases to the south would whither on the vine. I can't do this for sometime, yet, so I just toy with the idea while waiting for opportunities to arise.

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Post #: 1667

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/11/2011 2:25:46 AM

Cribtop

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TB is the island of Tabituea in the Gilberts. There is a zero percent chance I spelled it right, but should be close enough to find. It has a 30K garrison limit IIRC and can be built into a large base. It's just south of Tarawa and is a favorite of both JFB and AFB players looking for a base in the region.

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Post #: 1668

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/11/2011 2:38:56 AM

Xxzard

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And it is still an "atoll" designated base. (IIRC)

Which means an automatic shock attack, but at least you might get effective supply unloading.

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Post #: 1669

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/11/2011 3:00:23 PM

Canoerebel

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11/24/42

The Japanese showed up at Wake, so I may not have my cake and icing too, and I don't think Mary Ann and Ginger are as drawn to me as they were two days ago. Rats!

Wake Island: A Mini-KB of Hiryu, Junyo, and one BB showed up west and then NW of Wake, tangling with an Allied DD picket and dispatching it. A small IJN CA/DD force tangled with three or four small xAK supply TFs at Wake, dispatching most of them. And IJN carrier strike aircraft dispatched most of the two xAK suppy TFs standing offshore. All told, I probably lost 20 small ships, mostly xAKs but a smattering of auxilliary stuff like an AM, PC, and the one DD. My troops on Wake are left a little short of supply and still pretty badly disrupted, so I'm not sure I'll be able to wrest control of the island from Japan. I'll probably try a deliberate attack in about two days.

Oz: Still no sign of Japanese activity around Daly Waters. I'm gathering my Exmouth invasion troops at Perth, as I'm considering making a quick strike on that port and using the carriers in support. My carriers are on the way to Hobart, to refuel, and I think I'll then park them at Geelong, across the harbor from Melbourne.

India: The Allies took vacant Viz, Dacca, and (by parachute drop) Diamond Harbor. I think Brad is extracting what remains of his Calcutta garrison, just 3k strong, by air. So that major urban hex will probably fall without much of a fight when I get my troops up in a week or so. Madras will fall the day after tomorrow. I think Brad will evacuate Ceylon rather than making a stand here, but recon isn't complete yet, so I'm not positive. This is important because if he evacuates, I won't have to mount a potentially risky invasion (risky if he should pounce with the KB).

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/11/2011 3:01:39 PM >

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Post #: 1670

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/11/2011 4:32:16 PM

Canoerebel

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Nothing has changed with respect to this game, but I am considering starting a new one. Several of you have mentioned a willingness to start a new game, or to pick up this one were Brad to drop it, so I wanted to give you my thoughts so you don't think I dismissed your offers:

1. I prefer to finish this game with Brad paying the IJ side. He hasn't given any indication that he intends to quit, for which I'm thankful. Even if he did quit, I don't think I'd want to replace him with somebody else. This game just seems "personal" and between the two of us.

2. I promised to only play one game at a time - a vow I kept through my game with Miller - but I've reached the point in this game where I just don't have enough going on. The turns are coming sporadically, and for some reason Brad will not communicate turn availability by email.

3. Nemo was the first player to mention the possibility of a match months ago. So I sent an inquiry to him yesterday. He hasn't replied, and I don't even know if he would be interested. If he is, I will be inclined to proceed. I've suggested Scenario Two with PDU off, though I won't insist on the latter. Nemo is an experienced and skilled player, so Scenario Two would be quite a challenge, but I have to admit that I've grown fond of these uber "back to the wall" games.

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Post #: 1671

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/11/2011 6:09:39 PM

witpqs

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If you do, I highly recommend Scenario 28 - DaBabes. It basically Scenario 1 with far more historical refinements. No one has made a DaBabes with the Scenario 2 additions, so if you really want a Monster-IJ game I don't believe it can provide it (unless you two mod in the extra divisions, etc. yourself).

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Post #: 1672

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/11/2011 6:13:35 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xxzard

And it is still an "atoll" designated base. (IIRC)

Which means an automatic shock attack, but at least you might get effective supply unloading.

I recall a spate of threads early on where the devs took pains to emphasize that "atoll" and "very small island" are not the same thing in code. Atoll is a terrain type I believe, and the shock attack code triggers on a very small island. The only way to know if an island is very small is to consult the table in the back of the manual. It's common in the forum to use "atoll attack" interchangeably, but they aren't the same thing.

Of course, I could have this backwards.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/11/2011 6:17:57 PM >

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Post #: 1673

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/11/2011 6:14:55 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

11/24/42

The Japanese showed up at Wake, so I may not have my cake and icing too, and I don't think Mary Ann and Ginger are as drawn to me as they were two days ago. Rats!

FWIW and totally OT, but today is Tina Louise's 77th birthday. Mary Ann is much younger.

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Post #: 1674

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/11/2011 6:52:36 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xxzard

And it is still an "atoll" designated base. (IIRC)

Which means an automatic shock attack, but at least you might get effective supply unloading.

I recall a spate of threads early on where the devs took pains to emphasize that "atoll" and "very small island" are not the same thing in code. Atoll is a terrain type I believe, and the shock attack code triggers on a very small island. The only way to know if an island is very small is to consult the table in the back of the manual. It's common in the forum to use "atoll attack" interchangeably, but they aren't the same thing.

Of course, I could have this backwards.

Atoll, or any terrain size 1 (6,000) or any terrain size 2 (30,000) island. You can look them up in Tracker on the Bases screen more conveniently.

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Post #: 1675

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/11/2011 7:18:40 PM

Xxzard

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Hmm, so in that case, does Tarawa trigger an automatic shock attack as a max capacity 30000 island while Tabiteuea (60k) does not?

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Post #: 1676

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/11/2011 8:03:55 PM

Canoerebel

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Nemo isn't available, so I've posted an "oppponent wanted" notice. I need somebody that is as good and as experienced as Q-Ball, or even moreso, so I'm going to be very selective in choosing an opponent. I want somebody who would relish a shot at auto victory under Scenario Two (or a mod of similar benefit to Japan) and who has the experience to really give it a shot. Nemo certainly fit the bill, so that's the kind of player I hope to find.

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Post #: 1677

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/11/2011 8:10:58 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xxzard

Hmm, so in that case, does Tarawa trigger an automatic shock attack as a max capacity 30000 island while Tabiteuea (60k) does not?

Is Tabiteua an atoll? If so, shock attack. If not, then no based on the 60,000 capacity.

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Post #: 1678

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/11/2011 9:46:26 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xxzard

Hmm, so in that case, does Tarawa trigger an automatic shock attack as a max capacity 30000 island while Tabiteuea (60k) does not?

Is Tabiteua an atoll? If so, shock attack. If not, then no based on the 60,000 capacity.

I don't think so. There are Very Large islands which are atolls. Also lots of Mediums. Lord Howe I., Christmas I, Diego Garcia are three. I'd have to dig, but I'm pretty sure the devs early on emphasized not using Atoll terrain-type as an indicator of shock attacks.

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The Moose

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 1679

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/11/2011 9:57:37 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

According to a developer's posts clarifying the issue, the mandatory shock attack happens for any size 1 or 2 island (regardless of terrain), and for any atoll (regardless of size). Maybe wrong, but that's what the devs say.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 1680